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Opioids Methadone Mega Thread and FAQ

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A lot of 30'yo+ do stay with MMT indefinitely especially after getting [in usa] monthly takehomes. Are you saying they only let you stay on for 2 yrs or it takes that long to get off? Do they give you a script or takehomes after your in the program?

Oh no i didn't write that correctly what I wanted to say is that there are no demand that you start tapering off of Methadone - you can be on Methadone forever as long as you follow the guidlines.

And yes we get take home.

Thing is that I read a lot of people here on the forum that "have been" on MMT and I just wonder why they made the decicion to leave MMT or maybe it wasn't their choice to leave but they had to.
 
^ IMO the majority of true addicts on MMT who are past "honeymoon phase" would prefer to get off. But actually doing it and and keeping off is another story. The dr's who essentially invented MMT [ Dole & Nyswander] in the US claim their is a "maturing out" phenom among younger addicts. I wrote a paper on it in college but can't remember the details.

There are some who get kicked off for not following the clinic/state/fed guidelines... but can usually go back on after a time period or else go to another clinic. They don't give you methadone in prison and most jails either force WD or give your your prescriptions [brought in by family] if you have takehomes. I'm sure different states/counties handle it their own way but if your going to be locked up [jail] for any length of time you better have a good lawyer if you expect to avoid wd's in jail.
 
Hey all... The solution to my out-of-bupe-due-to-abuse-while-clinic-closed-during-easter problem today was to get methadone, as I figured I might as well get through tomorrow as well, and go collect Wednesday instead of giving in and admitting my mistakes to the clinic tomorrow. Anyways, yesterday, I was suprised that a quarter gram of heroin was barely enough to cover the wd's of a 1-2 mg /day habit of buprenorphine, but that was also 24 hrs+ after last dose of bupe. Today I was even more suprised to find that 40 mg of methadone barely kept the wd's at bay, at 48 hrs+ after last dose of bupe. Only after 40 mg could I get my appetite savoury enough to settle the hunger and stomach gurgling that had been going on since yesterday.... And still, I feel like crap. Anyways, bupe really has me twitching, in the sense that I am freaked out that such low doses can cause such undesirable wd's, and wondering how low one has to go to make the landing comfortable. And along the way, I've had to rotate some opiates, to get through, due to some fuck-ups in my ORT program.

So anyone have experience during the low-dose spectrum of buprepnorhpine and switching over to methadone (or other opiates for that matter)? Somebody switching from bupe to methadone at 2 mg/day, how much methadone would be required on average, to equal the effects? Because I am wondering whether it is going to be necessary to taper with another opiate at the end of my bupe tapering, due to it's profound potency that really has me pondered... It might be easier on me to go with a shorter acting full agonist, and then really go down to a low dose before jumping, post-bupe-treatment... I know methadone might not be the best then, but since I used it today, and have 20 mg for tomorrow, I figured I might as well ask, and was suprised at how much i needed to feel normal, compared to where I want to be at, and I'm really keeping myself at bay not eating that 20 mg tablet right now, which would boost my dose up to 60 mg or thereabouts, and to me, 60 mg < 2 mg bupe is quite crazy...
 
Bupe is a crazy fucking drug. You can take two MMT patients on 100mg each and drop them down to 30mg and switch one to 2-4mg bupe and their fine and the other needs 12-24mg to feel ok. Same thing in reverse... some can break thru and get high on opiates using bupe just a few hrs before. Others, it just doesn't work well unless their in WD's. It's also different to go back onto bupe after using short acting opiates for a lot of people. If theres a chart on these situations somewhere... it's got to be BS unless they have a lot of flexability within the categories, numbers, and variables.

You just really can't generalize and compare bupe to a full agonist.... especially methadone. Once they mixed the partial or anti-agonist with the full, it created a whole different ballgame. At least that how I see it. I don't know what's in anabuse but it makes drinking alcohol very unpleasant. Thats how I kinda see subs at higher doses... even if you don't get sick... it doesn't work well with opiates. IDK where we go from here but I suspect chemists or some kind of scientist will come up with a cure for addiction like they've done for other diseases.... or else a treatment better than AA/NA, ORT, or wringing hands abstinence. Just like all the unfortunates who got polio before salks vaccine, we are the unlucky ones who have addiction before they come up with a "vaccine" either to prevent WD's or make addiction impossible...
 
^So true! lol... please let me know when you stumble across that vaccine that you are talking about... would love a good fat shot of that stuff to cure my addiction... but then again, we live, we learn, and as for addiction, we can survive that, compared to the poor fella with polio some years back, not to mention all those in the world today that don't even have access to such vaccines or the money required thereof... I guess addiction is sort of a luxurious issue... as in all that money spent on dope or other opiates, in and out of the body, just to leave us in a state of total wd and shitty feelings, really... is a luxury problem that we have shun upon ourselves... but then again, we are all different, and some people are really not at fault for their addiction, sadly enough... but in my case, it is my fault that I am where I am now... so Imagonna suck it up and get through... vaccine or no vaccine... just gotta get better, ASAP!
 
^We may not see it aytime soon or perhps never. However, go back in time [not all that far] and who would have believed organ transplants, robotic surgery, embryonic stem cels, nanotechnology, MRI and looking into our brains....etc. I guess addiction cure is pretty low on the research priority list which I guess is understandable. However, now that such a high number of addicts come out of pain mgt clinics could change things??

Even with no "cure vaccine".... Like everything else... I have a feeling the more money you have, the easier they can make it for an in-patient rehab client in acute WD's. I suspect they can make you fairly comfortable during the process if you are a Rush Limbaugh or a child of bill gates or warren buffett.
 
^I'm with you on this... I also think that it is a matter of priority and funding... And from personal experience, I know that getting off opiates is always easier if you can get away to some exotic place, and just be spoiled there by foreign cultures and food (requiring a good handful of cash)... I'd recommend a place like SE Asia or East Africa.... good 3rd world countries, with nice people and wonderful climate and scenery, and not to forget the culinary arts in these places... Food is really an issue for a junkie in wd's - A) no appetite whatsoever, B) no energy to make food, C) and usually lack of money to buy food, and when A leads to B and B to C, usually C leads back to A and so on... so the more money one has to spit into treatment, the better, and the further away one can get from the daily routine of things, the better... But then again, what happens when you get back home, back into the routine of things... that was always my pitfall, and that is where I needed that vaccine... To keep me off once I had jumped. For now, bupe is that vaccine, but we'll see what happens when I jump off in a few weeks time. If I had more money, my way of going about it would definitely be to travel, and with time and new places, just have the opiates wear off, take their toll, and leave their mark... And if I had enough money, I'd never look back or come back - sad to say, but true. Sad but true!
 
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I know that getting off opiates is always easier if you can get away to some exotic place, and just be spoiled there by foreign cultures and food (requiring a good handful of cash)... I'd recommend a place like SE Asia or East Africa....

I wouldn't dispute that but for me... SE Asia is where it all started. We could get a little clear round container with at least a gram of about 95%+ pure china white for cheap at the time. Damn that shit... went POOF and disapeared completely when it hit the water. We didn't bother to cook it most times which is probably why I ended up with Hep B & C. Never forget the 1st shot given me in an opium den. In came this dr with his kit of glass plungers and probably 32gauge needles. After I puked, {he was prepared for that] WOW... I knew I'd found a reason to live.... Never considered consequences of coming home... methadone shortly thereafter.
 
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^No it wasn't likely the water but wonder if was remotely possible. Was 19 and and a yahoo at the time and didn't use cotton/filters that much. Used water from canteen when outside base. We mostly filled those from water transported by 2 1/2 ton water trucks coming from locals. Water could have been tainted with infected blood on purpose by VC. might have even have mistakenly drawn water in my syringe from shooting buddy's canteen?

However thats not likely... since it's a virus, could have got it from sharing a razor, needle or that old doc could have been VC sympathizer... Could have been dirty utensils or transfusion after being wounded.... and there were times it seemed like blood was everywhere. Definitely was in contact with others blood. Who knows, Could of even got it from my cambodian/french sweetheart prositute while in local town/village?? At this point don't really care since I already have enough service connected disab.

But I do know this... Veterans compromise the majority of infected people in the United States. Viet vets have the the highest rates. Vets account for 2.6 million of 4 million known cases. Over 60 % of vets who have it are viet vets.

http://hcvets.com/History/Statistics.htm

It's been estimated there up to a million more infected than VA is not yet aware of....
 
IV methadone from tablets safe to inject after micron filtering with a 0.22μ wheel!?

Hello all...

I have been doing research, and forgot to mention one of my experiments during the methadone OR (opiate rotation without the therapy/treatment abbr. as it was self-medicated.... but then again, many people in my circle of friends do call me Dr., sort of in a bush doctor sort of sense).

Anyways, there has been a lot of dispute as to whether or not one can IV methadone. My answer is YES, BUT:

The tablets i had, and from which I shot 10 mg/1 ml, which I think is common for the IV solutions dispensed anyways, were of a type that contained binders and other ingredients similar to those of a typical generic Morphine HCl tablet (not slow-release, jelly tablets, but the ones that are supposed to work as fast and with as much bio-availability as possible).

This means they contain ingredients similar to those, and along the lines of Subutex/Subuxone tablets, which, well what do you know, they can be filtered safely with minimal 0.45 micron wheel filters, but at best also 0.22 microns. Only things is that these tablets are big, and contain a lot of additives such as talk and lactose. So it was high pressure filtering.

And the shot *DOES* produce a rush. Not the heroin rush, but a very distinct rush that lasts about half a minute to a few, and then another sort of mellow sedative rush that slowly retracts after a few hours, and then the methadone otherwise just does it's thing and has some good legs to walk on.

So do not shoot other preparations of Methadone that contain any harmful ingredients. And do not apply heat unless sterilizing water before mixing with tablets (let it cool first, but in this timeframe, bacteria might get back in the mix). And please do not shot without using proper filters. Use micron wheel filters, and stay sterile. I only made one shot, but otherwise, store in a sterile place. I use a 10 ml syringe storage syringe which I sterilize with ethanol after every use, and I store it in an air-tight container that I also sterilize frequently.

And the reports that claim that Methadone burns when IV'ed, seem to be due to the concentration. 10 mg/ml and above is the safest way to shoot methadone. Apparently 20 mg/ml is supposed to burn and cause adverse effects. So a 3 ml shot with about 30 mg methadone in it, or what I shot, 10 mg in 1.5 ml, produced no adverse side-effects so far. I had eaten methadone (30 mg) before-hand, but it wasn't 'holding me' (I am in bupe treatment, and just used more than I should have over Easter where the clinic was closed and my tolerance soared). So start low if you must, especially with no to little tolerance.

One forum thread that inspired me: Simple IV methadone

Otherwise Google it and sort through the hoards of disputes and misinformation/good-information-prone-to-misunderstanding.

And go to the Imprtant threads in the OD directory, and do not use this post as a root for good/bad ideas, but rather as HR inspiration to do further reseacrh and clarify for yourself what the fuss is about.

Be rational about your choices, and stay safe, and enjoy life! Something tells me that IV methadone might also decrease the HL, as seems to be the case for IV buprenorphine.

1<3 -Bwanajzj

P.S. I think that the contemplation and disputes are due to the fact that some people have tried IV'ing the syrups which contain sucrose and all sorts of stuff that is NOT EVER MEANT TO GO THE IV ROA.
 
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Hello all!

So finally im on Methadone!
Had to be hospitalized for aprox 3-4 weeks while they up me from 30mg to ~70mg.
But after 2 weeks I said I had enough, I started to get annoyed on some of the other patients. And I began feeling like I was "locked up" so after 2 weeks I left and now I am on 50mg Methadone and I have to up it slowly to ~70mg (5mg every 5th day) and after that I can up with 10mg every 5th day.

I did a ultra rapid down cut from 32mg Suboxone down to 0 in 4 days and then I was clean from Subs for 2 days and on the 3rd day I got my first dose of Methadone!
Didn't feel to much that day (I had no cravings atleast) and it wasn't until the 4 or 5th day that I started to really feel the effects of Methadone. It felt really good and still do!

Sorry for all the rambling and on to my question!

I read on another forum something about Omeprazole had the potential in potentiating/boosting Methadone?
Is there any truth in this?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omeprazole
 
Sorry for the double posts.

I got another question - is there any medication that eases ones need to take a piss?
Makes peeing easier?

Because Methadone is the worst ive came across that makes it hard to pee.
 
^Are they requiring you to go up to 70mg? That's shitty IMO if so... That is a large dose and will have side effects like you are describing, not being able to urinate, etc, not to mention it will take forever to taper this amount. If you can avoid increasing your dose any more, I recommend doing so!

Regarding omeprazole, it is a CYP inhibitor like grapefruit or cimetidine, though these two are probably more effective inhibitors. Many people get potentiation from CYP inhibitors, others don't claim to get much. I wouldn't expect too much, there likely will be some perceptible potentiation though.
 
^Are they requiring you to go up to 70mg? That's shitty IMO if so... That is a large dose and will have side effects like you are describing, not being able to urinate, etc, not to mention it will take forever to taper this amount. If you can avoid increasing your dose any more, I recommend doing so!

Regarding omeprazole, it is a CYP inhibitor like grapefruit or cimetidine, though these two are probably more effective inhibitors. Many people get potentiation from CYP inhibitors, others don't claim to get much. I wouldn't expect too much, there likely will be some perceptible potentiation though.

Hi and thanks for your reply!
No I do not have to go up and beyond 70mg, I can stay on 30mg if that is all it takes.

But I am tolerant to opioids and do not get relief from smaller doses so my guess is that I will atleast end up on 80-90mg if not more.
And I do not have to taper this medication because I can be on it for the rest of my life if I want to and I don't plan on going of it anytime soon.

Right now its just the urinating sideffect that I don't like, maybe someone who is on MMT can give me some recomendations.
 
Hi and thanks for your reply!
No I do not have to go up and beyond 70mg, I can stay on 30mg if that is all it takes.

But I am tolerant to opioids and do not get relief from smaller doses so my guess is that I will atleast end up on 80-90mg if not more.
And I do not have to taper this medication because I can be on it for the rest of my life if I want to and I don't plan on going of it anytime soon.

Right now its just the urinating sideffect that I don't like, maybe someone who is on MMT can give me some recomendations.

Drink lots of water and it will likely work itself out... if not they may give you a low dose hydrochlorothiazide [water pill] they gave me 25mg at one point

Hydrochlorothiazide (Brand name: HydroDIURIL)
Hydrochlorothiazide, a 'water pill,' is used to treat high blood pressure and fluid retention caused by various conditions, including heart disease. It causes the kidneys to get rid of unneeded water and salt from the body into the urine. This medicine is sometimes prescribed for other uses; ask your doctor or ...
Side effects - How to take - Precautions - Dietary Instructions - Missed a dose
www.nlm.nih.gov

 
starting today cold turkey

I have no choice but to go cold turkey...I have been on perks for over 6 years now, and I am scared of the outcome...but finacially strapped now and with no other choice...just wish me luck..
 
Thanks SubDude.
Ill try and drink a lot of water, I really don't want more medications.

I have no choice but to go cold turkey...I have been on perks for over 6 years now, and I am scared of the outcome...but finacially strapped now and with no other choice...just wish me luck..

I don't follow. Have you used Percodan/percocet for 6 years and now going of cold turkey?

What does it have to do with Methadone?

Don't take this as an insult I just want to know what you mean so we can give you good advice.
 
Thanks SubDude.
Ill try and drink a lot of water, I really don't want more medications.

I believe you can get water pills OTC now days. Ask a pharmacist. The dose you take is so low it has essentially no effect on BP. I only needed it for a short while,,,, but they come in handy if you ever make a bet with someone on who can lose the most weight over 30 days.... lol
 
Thanks all!

So I came across this info that Promethazine would weaken opioids if taken before.
Source of the information:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=9518576&postcount=162

I am on Methadone - would the effects and duration or anything like that become reduced?
Why im asking is because I have a script for Lergigan (25mg Promethazine) and want to know if it potentiates my Methadonee.

Thanks!
 
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