Opioids Methadone Mega Thread and FAQ

[SubDude]

One other thing worth mentioning is that people who were on methadone scored lower on cognition tests then controls even after the cessation of methadone treatment. This doesn't mean that the changes are permanent per say, but it does show that the effects can take a long time to reverse.

Again I want to stress I'm not anti methadone (I'm on the program myself), but it is not something you should jump into without studying first -- but I personally believe it is always worth giving bupe a try first because for many people it works just as well as methadone

I'm one of those that it doesn't. I don't doubt the cognitive deterioration research you cite. However, I'm curious as to why you apparently think bupe would be any safer [over the long term] than methadone? Assumming both are taken as prescribed. Don't believe BMT has been around long enough for the research on methadone.

Secondly, I don't have any evidence other than my own experience along with a few BMT users I know... but IMO, BMT clients are more likely too:

#1- want to get off ort which is good for those who are successful... but according to my dr's claims, the latest research indicates 80%+ relapse rate for people who get off ort. I think I may have already mentioned this on BL but then I can't remember... hmmm

#2- I think after a few mos on BMT, more people than MMT want and do taper down lower. Because of side effects and better results on low dose and they can switch back and forth to other opiates to get high. A lot of it because bupe can't get you high with the more you do. Getting quick or instant 30 day TH's [takehomes] makes it easier to abuse opiates.... it takes 3 yrs with no dirty urines to get 30 day TH's with MMT.

#3- the side effects of bupe can be really bothersome for a lot of clients. Just not nearly as bad as WD's... so a lot of us stay on it. Many dr's won't switch you to subtex from suboxone if you have history of IV use. Thats the VetAdmin's policy.

If MMT worked like BMT with regards to TH's and a few other less controls and costs were same... I'd go back to MMT today.

Sorry for getting so far off track but I am interested if you have info regarding bupe being physically/mentally safer than done.

 

[AuraLee]

The following are mandatory minimum standards for the allowance of take home doses. You will not be allowed take home doses in excess of the following.

•Days 1-90 – A maximum of 1 scheduled take home dose per week, as well as a take home dose for one day if the clinic closes on Sunday. .[TWO TOTAL a week}
•Days 90-180 – A maximum of 2 scheduled take home doses per week as wells as a take home dose for the one day a week the clinic will close. .[THREE TOTAL a week}
•Days 180-270 – A maximum of 3 scheduled take home doses per week + 1 for days the clinic is closed. [FOUR TOTAL a week}
•Days 270-365 – Up to 6 take home doses per week.
•Year 2 - Twice a month reporting.
•Year 3 – Once a month reporting.

Getting quick or instant 30 day TH's [takehomes] makes it easier to abuse opiates.... it takes 3 yrs with no dirty urines to get 30 day TH's with MMT.

Man, I always thought USA was so overly tough on drugs but yet in Australia, the maximum takeaways per week is 4. Although they do have a "trial" where you can get 6 TAs a week after 10 years on the program and many undertakings of stability. Once a month pickup after 3 years.....that's amazing.

However I really think it makes it too easy to get back into recreational use. The one thing that stopped me using was the blockade effect of the methadone. It's just too much rigmarole to get your dose down far enough to get over the methadone. In fact, I tried about 3 separate times and then gave up heroin for good. That was about 10 years ago.

 

[BrokedownPalace]

^At my clinic here in NJ, due to medical issues (cancer), after 7 months in the clinic they started giving me six take home a week. So I would just go every wednesday. Face dose for that day, then get six bottles. Australia sounds pretty whack, man ! Damn.. I feel bad. I guess some clinics feel like after 10 years!! they may as well do you the huge favor and go out of their way to give you SIX take homes. That sucks.. I am sure there are certain people involved in the rules and regulations making who despise addicts, and feel like 6 THs a week, after 10 years, 8) is ''bending over backwards for these lame-ass junkies'8)

I feel bad for you, man. That is just ridiculous.

haha imagine if dope dealer in the hood had a similar regulations.. Like at first you can only buy 1 bag at a time. Then 3 months later you can start buying 2! Then after a years, you could buy maybe five! Then 2 years you can buy.... *drum roll*. A Whole Bundle !

Muahahaha

 

[lolitaofott]

I REALLY NEED SOME ADVICE, PLEASE READ:

I have been using oxys every day for 2 1/2 months and have been fooling around with them for about 6 months. I am a mentally fragile person and found stopping to be IMPOSSIBLE, I could not handle the withdrawal especially the depression and the anxiety (I had clonidine, at least). I am going to start the methadone treatment in a couple of weeks. I don't even have much of a tolerance (20-80mg a day)... but I think this will help with my INTENSE cravings and excessive fatigue (can barely move).

Please, what should I do, is methadone going to save me? I really want to break the addiction cycle and start getting better. I'm a successful university student (for now...). I had to drop a class because of this addiction. I am a part-time student this semester, but at least I can focus on getting better. I need to know if methadone is going to help me and allow me to focus on school, until I can go to rehab in the summer.

I really hope there is someone out there who cares enough to share their knowledge and experiences. I am so worried and disappointed in myself. And yet... I still keep thinking about the delicious opiate high... it makes me sick!

 

[Pegasus]

^Have you considered Suboxone? If you're looking to get clean any time soon, I'd say Suboxone is your better bet. It will definitely help with cravings for awhile, though for many people the effects do get mild after some months. Methadone's effects on the body are very strong, and the withdrawal is long and difficult. Suboxone is also strong and has a prolonged withdrawal, but it is less drastic for most.

 

[Heroin Girl]

I REALLY NEED SOME ADVICE, PLEASE READ:

I have been using oxys every day for 2 1/2 months and have been fooling around with them for about 6 months. I am a mentally fragile person and found stopping to be IMPOSSIBLE, I could not handle the withdrawal especially the depression and the anxiety (I had clonidine, at least). I am going to start the methadone treatment in a couple of weeks. I don't even have much of a tolerance (20-80mg a day)... but I think this will help with my INTENSE cravings and excessive fatigue (can barely move).

Please, what should I do, is methadone going to save me? I really want to break the addiction cycle and start getting better. I'm a successful university student (for now...). I had to drop a class because of this addiction. I am a part-time student this semester, but at least I can focus on getting better. I need to know if methadone is going to help me and allow me to focus on school, until I can go to rehab in the summer.

I really hope there is someone out there who cares enough to share their knowledge and experiences. I am so worried and disappointed in myself. And yet... I still keep thinking about the delicious opiate high... it makes me sick!

Hi, I don't know if you're referring to a taper or maintenance, but I would really recommend trying to taper. I've got nothing against methadone (I'm on it) but subs would probably be a better choice for you. Imo 1 or 2 8mg's would be enough for a relatively painless taper - esp if you have access to other drugs (benzos, Clonidine, Immodium (for the wait betw OC's and subs), muscle relaxers, etc) and/or supplements (Phenibut (great benzo alternative but has similar w/d), Black Seed Oil, kratom), and lots of weed if you normally smoke. In the sub mega thread, someone can plan a taper out for you if you post your details.

Tbh methadone is more effective, but going to the clinic every day is a real bitch, and they tend to have some bullshit policies. If you only have access to methadone or are averse to subs or whatever, you can still taper comfortably but it's kinda overkill for your habit and the withdrawal is hard. Unless you've made multiple attempts at quitting/maintenance, I wouldn't recommend methadone at this point in your recovery.

If you're self medicating anxiety/depression, CBT and/or meds are a must to quit opiates. If your anxiety and depression are under control, you're gonna be way less likely to relapse and crave.

Also if you're stable by Summer, rehab could actually end up being a triggering environment. Most people don't want to be there and are constantly fiending and trying to sneak drugs in. Maybe you could try therapy or a support group, like Rational Recovery (def avoid 12 step programs) while you taper/maintain and after? And, of course, BL is a great source of support.

If you need to talk while you're kicking, feel free to pm me. I'm in a similar situation (well, except for the part that I've quit over 9000 times before) - only taking a couple classes this semester, recently got on MMT for IV Heroin + Fentanyl habit - and I'm determined not to fuck it up this time. %) Good luck, dude.

 

[SubDude]

^ I agree. for someone not to far into the game like lolitaofott... dude, if your insistant on ort, go with the Subs.... and if your smart and want more freedom in your like, you'll start a taper plan [after your stable] to get off as quickly as possible. For most people the less time your on maint and the smaller your dose... the easier it will be to get abstinence.

You don't want long term ort unless you find yourself still craving and relapsing and your life going down hill after you quit BMT or MMT.

 

[BrokedownPalace]

Yeah commiting to long term maintenance is no joke. Especially after a small 2 month oxy habit ! That's just crazy, man. That would be like treating the common cold with chemotherapy. I bet even if you quit cold turkey you wouldn't even get that sick. Now, surely you have developed some kind of physical dependence by this point, but it is minimal at best. Maintenence will just raise your tolerance even more, and make it tha tmuch more painful and difficult to get off completely, in the future.

Do yourself a favor and try and quit by doing a short taper with oxy, then just jumping off with the help of some comfort meds. (loperamide is a godsend, benzos, ibuprofen, good food, exercise, and good people to talk to). In my opinion for a habit your size that's all you need.

At WORST you could do a short (few week) taper using suboxone to get off, which in my opinion may still me overkill.

Getting on MMT or BMT is seriously for people who have HUGE habits (heroin mainly) that have failed repeatedly in the past to get off using the above aforementioned methods. I was an IV heroin user, and got on MMT. 15 months later, I am still on MMT with a tolerance twice as high as it was before I got on methadone. Now I am working on tapering, and tryingt o figure out what to do because I am seriously so done with opiates.

Do yourself a favor, get our while you can. There is nothing. NOTHING fun/easy/glamorous about long term heavy opiate addiction/dependence.

 

[Pegasus]

Guys, don't forget about kratom! It is very useful when coming off opiates, especially smaller habits. You can essentially just take kratom as needed when feeling w/d, and be better in like a week. It shouldn't be that difficult at all, and kratom will definitely take cravings away if you find your proper dose.

 

[BananasAndOranges]

I have been trying to taper. I was doing 1mg drops went from 103? to 99mgs in a few weeks or so. Now it feels like I hit a wall of annoyance every morning. Its total hell going to the clinic of a early morning.

 

[BrokedownPalace]

I have been trying to taper. I was doing 1mg drops went from 103? to 99mgs in a few weeks or so. Now it feels like I hit a wall of annoyance every morning. Its total hell going to the clinic of a early morning.

Really? That is surprising that such a small drop would have you feeling so crappy.. one time I had to stay in the hospital for three weeks, and at the time I was on 63mg. All they had were the pills, so they would only give me 60mg. I didn't notice any difference at all. At 4mg reduction, I believe it has got to be mostly all in your head. You are already on a pretty high dose, I cant imagine 4mg making much of a difference.

 

[Heroin Girl]

^I asked for a decrease from 55 to 52, not expecting to feel anything different, but it was pretty uncomfortable. Granted, methadone only only holds me 9-12 hours at best, my dose is way too low, could've been psychological, etc.

 

[BananasAndOranges]

Its just a really uncomfortable feeling. Like lethargy until your dose kicks in moreso than usual. It takes me a week to recover and yes it sucks ass. I need to get down to a low dose. I have been wanting to get off of this or atleast get the dose lowered because anything even over 90 feels dumb to me. More sedation nothing else. Its not like a dope sick feeling but it is very uncomfortable.

 

[morrisoninmono]

I am on 55 mg daily and they were trying to up my dosage all the way to 100. I cant imagine what would have happened if id have done this.....it would have taken me forever to lower my dosage.

 

[BrokedownPalace]

Yeah they try to push you up way high, so you stay on the program fucking forever. They want your money. I have been on 'done for like 15 months, and am so done with it. I want off it so bad. I am compiling large amounts of suboxone and benzos, and gonna just quit the clinic. Take a short acting opiate for 5 days or so, then switch to sub and do a taper over a month give or take.

 

[affasd]

I don't think they up peoples doses because they want them addicted, its because methadone is mostly used as a long term solution, and since you are on it long term they want the dose to be high enough so it prevents withdrawals and cravings for the full 24 hours. I was skeptical too, after going over 100 which I thought I wouldn't go over, and still feeling shitty in the mornings, but eventually once I got to 130 it finally started lasting until the next dose without feeling shitty in the mornings.

They do that because feeling ok til the next dose is essential for the methadone program to work, which is to keep you off all illegal drugs and keep you stable. When your dose wears off at night and you get cravings you are more likely to do other drugs, and being stable all day is key because if you are feeling like shit every night you are gonna have a negative opinion of the methadone and be more likely to relapse. Stability is key. I know for me on suboxone since it didn't do shit for cravings so I was still using weed, benzos, and other shit which brought me right back to the opiates within a couple months. For me at least the benzos impaired my decision making skills and the weed and benzos both made me crave the opiate high, not to mention hanging around people who are using will make it that much easier to find opiates when you eventually break and decide to do some, people who use one illegal drug most likely will be able to find other drugs or know people who can.

Methadone has been amazing for me, now that I am stable I haven't used any drugs besides the methadone and it also completely took away my urge to smoke cigarettes for some reason to. I feel so clear headed and anxiety free I feel better than ever and I finally have control over my life and stability. The policies in place at the methadone clinic may seem strict but for me they all help me to stay away from illegal drugs, where as with suboxone when I just had a month script and only had to go in once a month it made it way to easy to just sell the pills and only take them when I couldn't get any dope.

 

[Pegasus]

^If that is actually their rationale it is poor, seeing as the effects "wearing off" is due to the body's tolerance to the drug. People increase the dose because they say it wears off too soon, then increase again when it happens again, etc. The smartest thing to do if trying to give the strongest effects for the longest would be to start at a small dose and have lots of room to increase once the body becomes accustomed to the dose.

I think many people expect too much of methadone. It builds tolerance like any other opioid, of course it won't give a buzz all day, every day...

 

[chuckster11]

I need some help. I take about 10 30mg's Roxi's a day and I have taken Suboxone and I have never fully quit so I want to try Methadone but don't know what dosage my tolerance calls for and I want off these things sooo bad and I have heard good and bad stories about Methadone but I wanna give it a shot. A friend of mine said I could get by on like 2 10mg pills a day, is this true for a 240mg-300mg?? Thanks for your guys help.

 

[BrokedownPalace]

I need some help. I take about 10 30mg's Roxi's a day and I have taken Suboxone and I have never fully quit so I want to try Methadone but don't know what dosage my tolerance calls for and I want off these things sooo bad and I have heard good and bad stories about Methadone but I wanna give it a shot. A friend of mine said I could get by on like 2 10mg pills a day, is this true for a 240mg-300mg?? Thanks for your guys help.

Yes, 30mg of methadone could potentially be enough to hold you for the day. The clinic I go to started you on 25mg for the first week, then raised you weekly til you were comfortable/stable. At 25mg I was still kinda "off" throughout the day and couldn't sleep, but honestly it was enough to keep withdrawals away. A little goes a long way. If you got on MMT though, you would probably want to go higher than that to get to the point of reducing cravings and holding you for 24 hours. Everyone is different. But when I started methadone, I was shooting ~1gram of NJ heroin a day, and 30mg was enough to make me feel decent throughout the day. I eventually settled on 75mg, which kept the cravings away and kept me well throughout the night. Everyone has a different metabolism, and a different mentallity when going into it. If you want to get on methadone to truly quit, and not getting on it simply to get your fix daily for free, then a lower dose should satisfy you.

Methadone is much more potent than people realize. I am currently on 70mg a day, and for comparison 250mg of oxycodone does not get me high. Clinics sometimes try and jack your dose way up into the 100s, which is wrong in my opinion. Granted, some may need that high a dose, but manypeople do not.

My advice: If you get on methadone STAY AT THE LOWEST DOSE POSSIBLE that will hold you. You'll be thankful in the end. The w/d is hell. I am currently contemplating jumping off the clinic and detoxing myself with suboxone/benzos.

MMT is a commitment, that's for sure. I advise you think long and hard if you do go that route. In my opinion MMT should only be utilized after detox/rehab has failed, cold turkey has failed, tapering with your DOC has failed, etc. If I could do it all over again I would NEVER get on methadone for the long period of time I have been on it. Using it for a short taper would be ideal.

If you have questions regarding Methadone, feel free to PM me as it is one of my areas of expertise.

Good luck!

 

[austing]

coming off of methadone...help

Ive been on methadone about 6-8 months on a mmt program ive came down from 140 to 55 currently. Im prescribed benzos and all that for sleep but what else would help and what dose would be best to go cold turkey off of? or what would be best to help with withdrawls other than obvious weed n benzos? Im on the liquid too.