Meth Vs Speed

[OND43X]

oh, that's sad. That was pretty much the idiots guide to methamphetamine in australia.

haha, good call mate.

ok. blondey and i worked out a compromise just now. we'll allow ONE picture of each the pure(er) product against the inferior product for comparison.

there is no need to be posting 20 different bags of all different "variety". anyone who has done their homework knows there is the good the bad and ugly and it can be viewed all over the internet. we just don't want it here and we don't need it here.

we thought long and hard over this; a whole coffee and cigarette

OND43X - i' ll leave it to you for whichever 2 you'd like to post up for comparison. they don't need to be 8-ball (3.5gm) size bags either, keep them to minimal amounts. edit the pictures if you have to please

well i noticed that a recent dicussion about BL's that have smoked freebase meth (which for ppl who dont fully understand is methamp before it is converted into hcl or what we usually call speed and ice), i am not saying i dont believe these ppl (not at all) but i agree with wat "footscrazy" was referring to, that its odd that someone would sell freebase instead of converting it into meth hcl which would fetch a massive profit increase (many times).

Apparently there was rumour of a large producer needing to offload product very quickly but even then most cases the next in line is a major distributor/organisation which would of funded the batch. seeing how the solvents and the recipe are easy to source, that the method is very simple, the ppl that high up would have many connections with cooking experience and the financial looses or benefits in doing it, (again i wanna state i am not saying ppl are lieing or that its not freebase) it just seems very unlike the worlds greediest drug producers/distributors/dealers to allow this...

so "leftwing" i put up all the pics of base i had taken because i was going to ask the BL's in this thread (the ones who have smoked freebase) what the meth freebase looked like, smelled like etc in comparisson to them, and as i didnt really have many wet/oily/pastey form of 'base' pics (only 1 which was the last pic), i was going to see if anyone else had any wet base pics for these BL's to compare to.

sometimes i have recieved base that was a real watery/oily brown goo and could easily been mistaken for freebase meth. i have also noticed that drug slang here in different parts of australia can mean totally different things.

''leftwing'' here is my post keeping to the '2 pic' rule...

Here is a link to a photo i found in google images of freebase Methamphetamine (top layer).

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/freebase.jpg/

It was mentioned that the freebase is believed to be cut around 1:1. BL's have mentioned the colour ranges from a pink/red to a brown. is the texture of the freebase sold look like the above pic or does it look more like these? the first pic is what was sold to me as 'base' and the second pic was sourced off google that looks alot like a pic ffrom my gallery....

Anyone got any pics of the freebase stuff sold to them??

 

[pisspotnrock]

^ you've never tried to shoot 5 points in one go?
in like 30-40 units?

Warm shots are freaky yo, only surpassed by ice cold shots..

eh with the quality of the gear I had acouple of weeks ago, 1.5 points to 25 units with a big fuck off tolerance to meth and dex was enough to make me cough and rush like a motherfucker... wouldnt want to know what 5 points would do..

I always thought heating shots of meth was a bad idea? its 100% water soluble as it is, isnt it?

 

[titstypedthis]

yeah you shouldnt need to do it with meth but some people still think a smaller volume of water to drug gives a better rush.

now try 1.5 points in 10 units

 

[becam]

Thanks for that, I was just wondering about the chemistry about mixing msm and the freebase oil, because obviously it's not as simple as mixing a 'wet' and dry product, for example sugar isn't soluble in cooking oil and you'd just be left with sugar suspended in oil. I thought msm and freebase might be the same.

I actually spoke to some people with more knowledge of chemistry than me and they didn't think it'd work but they'd never actually tried it, so there you go.

I'm close enough to the source that I know no-one handles the product in between however I have never seen this person combining the two together with my own eyes (don't really want to be found in such circumstance) so I can only pass on the information that is passed on to me. How ever I trust this person as I have been purchasing from them for a long time and I'm always upfront with them and ask what ratios they are mixing and of what cutter, oil, hcl salt or whatever. They know I'm anal and like to know what I'm consuming. They have no reason to f@#k me around nor I them.

It was mentioned that the freebase is believed to be cut around 1:1. BL's have mentioned the colour ranges from a pink/red to a brown. is the texture of the freebase sold look like the above pic or does it look more like these?

What I get is much wetter. It's generally quite a sticky paste with small crystals that are generally thin and long. (from my research I would say that this is all the msm). The oil seems to stick to the crystals but not permeate. It needs to be kept in the freezer so that it firms up but doesn't freeze if that makes sense. If I put some out on my black plate to crush and rail it leaves and oily residue behind even after snorting. A bit like if you spilt a few drops of olive oil and tried to wipe it off the plate with your finger. Also when I clean the plate I have to use hot water and a cloth as rinsing in cold doesn't remove it.

I don't smoke meth at all so I wouldn't know if you can or not. Too be honest I don't really care. I'm happy just to snort or eat it as it gets me right where I need to be. I just don't see the point in paying the exuberant prices for shards/ice when I don't smoke it and I charge just as long/hard as my friends who smoke. In fact more than often harder without the psychosis/aggressive behaviour that generally follows them. Each to their own I guess.

 

[ayjay]

to my knowledge everything that is sold as "base" is in fact methamphetamine HCl - just a shitty synth done. Any oiliness/liquid is generally left over reagents from the aforementioned shitty synth... see here for reference pictures.

Basically - if it dissolves in water it is salt form

 

[Jabberwocky]

^definitely agree the most "base" is the hcl salt for the reasons you stated. it was used as a marketing scheme when i was still in the "scene" because of the stigma attached to "crystal". that and people are dumbasses.

cool link, i've posted something very similar in the past, it almost reads the same.

base is tedious for an injector because it's almost insoluble in water and takes forever to break down. i wouldn't recommend IVing it if that's your preferred route.

 

[pisspotnrock]

ok. blondey and i worked out a compromise just now. we'll allow ONE picture of each the pure(er) product against the inferior product for comparison.

there is no need to be posting 20 different bags of all different "variety". anyone who has done their homework knows there is the good the bad and ugly and it can be viewed all over the internet. we just don't want it here and we don't need it here.

we thought long and hard over this; a whole coffee and cigarette

OND43X - i' ll leave it to you for whichever 2 you'd like to post up for comparison. they don't need to be 8-ball (3.5gm) size bags either, keep them to minimal amounts. edit the pictures if you have to please

ummmm thats true but you see, we live on this little island called Australia and nearly all pictures you can dig up over the net are from the states or some other foreign county which could be using completly different synth. methods... so IMO, all those pictures were necessary for us Aussie users and I can garrentee the majority of BLers did want and need them here!! just because you and mr blonde didnt doesnt mean less educated members didnt.................

should have had a few more coffees and cigarettes bruvaa

 

[becam]

to my knowledge everything that is sold as "base" is in fact methamphetamine HCl - just a shitty synth done. Any oiliness/liquid is generally left over reagents from the aforementioned shitty synth... see here for reference pictures.

Basically - if it dissolves in water it is salt form

correct....that's how I know that I have freebase as only the msm disolves in water and the oil doesn't.

 

[Jabberwocky]

so "leftwing" i put up all the pics of base i had taken because i was going to ask the BL's in this thread (the ones who have smoked freebase) what the meth freebase looked like, smelled like etc in comparisson to them, and as i didnt really have many wet/oily/pastey form of 'base' pics (only 1 which was the last pic), i was going to see if anyone else had any wet base pics for these BL's to compare to.

sure, i understand your intent but just because a picture from person a looks the same as person b's does not equal the same batch. personally (i'm not speaking for the other mods) i don't see any value in just comparing pics of gear. it's much the same as comparing identical pressed pills; you need a reagent test to determine whether you've got is in actuality MDMA (or whatever drug).

ummmm thats true but you see, we live on this little island called Australia and nearly all pictures you can dig up over the net are from the states or some other foreign county which could be using completly different synth. methods... so IMO, all those pictures were necessary for us Aussie users and I can garrentee the majority of BLers did want and need them here!! just because you and mr blonde didnt doesnt mean less educated members didnt.................

should have had a few more coffees and cigarettes bruvaa

lucky we're running the show and you aren't then huh? i don't see your point in why the pictures should have stayed? perhaps you should re-read the mission statement of bluelight.

if you can supply a study which includes pictures and data on methamphetamine there's no problem. posting random pictures for the sake of showing what you have and compare simply through the photograph and other (inconclusive) details (smell, what-have-you) is not the point of this place.

if you want to get your gear lab tested and post the results with pictures then do it.

you want to simply compare pictures of australian meth? make your own forum.

The purity and physical appearance of powder, base, ice and pills
Drug seizure data collected in Australia does not routinely distinguish between the different
forms of methamphetamine and this has been a hindrance in clarifying the appearance and
purity of the new more potent forms of methamphetamine, namely base and ice. Moreover, the
purity of drug seizures is usually only measured if evidence is required for prosecution, resulting
in a relatively small and potentially biased sample of drug seizures. Since 1997 the Victoria
Police Forensic Science Services Centre, Chemical Drug Intelligence Team, have been routinely
collecting information on the estimated purity and physical characteristics of all drug seizures
made in Victoria (see Methodology for details). This data allows analysis of the purity and physical
appearance of different forms of methamphetamine.
The following sections describe the physical appearance and purity of the different forms of
methamphetamine, and also how the emergence of these forms has impacted on the overall purity
of methamphetamine in Victoria. These data are based entirely on seizures of drugs from Victoria
and may not be taken as an indication of the methamphetamine market in Sydney. However,
these data still have utility in understanding the relative purity and appearance of different
methamphetamine forms, and also in understanding how the emergence of the more pure forms of
methamphetamine on the market is likely to impact on the purity of street level methamphetamine
in Sydney.
The physical characteristics of methamphetamine seizures were categorised according to the
classifi cation system developed by Topp and Churchill, (2002, see Methodology). Analysis of the
different forms of methamphetamine seized over the period 1997 to 2002 in Victoria showed that
most seizures were the powder form of the drug, accounting for 64% of all seizures by weight.
Pills containing methamphetamine were the second most common form of the drug (25% of all
seizures by weight), while other forms of the drug made up considerably smaller proportions of
seizures, together accounting for 10% of seizures by weight.
The purity of powder, base and ice
The median purity of all methamphetamine seizures from 1997 to 2002 was 18%, with signifi cant
differences between the purity of each of the different physical forms of the drug. The median
estimated purity of powder seizures was 10%. Base was double the purity of powder with a
median estimated purity of 21%. Seizures with a crystalline appearance had a bimodal purity
distribution (Figure 3). Those seizures with a purity estimate of 60% or greater were included as
ice (39% of crystalline seizures) while those crystalline seizures with a purity estimate of below
60% were treated as a separate category, which have been termed low purity crystal for the sake
of distinguishing it from ice. This distinction was made because ice, by defi nition, should have an
average purity of around 80%. Crystalline methamphetamine seizures that do not have this high
purity level clearly refl ect a different manner of marketing methamphetamine, which has important
implications for both the supply and health consequences associated with the drug’s use. Ice had a
median purity of 83% while the low purity crystal had a median purity estimate of 19%. Both base
and the low purity crystal were signifi cantly more pure than the powder form of methamphetamine
(Figure 4).
Over the six year period there was an increase in the proportion of methamphetamine seizures
with a crystalline or wet/damp appearance (i.e., ice or base) from less than 2% to 24% of all
methamphetamine seizures by weight. The purity of methamphetamine seizures also increased
signifi cantly over this time (Fdf=5, 4957 = 86.1, p = 0.000) from a median of 3% in 1997 to 15% in
2002. However, this increase in the purity was not only due to the increase in seizures of the more
pure forms of base and ice, with a signifi cant increase in the purity of powder methamphetamine
also occurring over this time (3% in 1997 to 15% in 2002; Fdf=5, 3069 = 98.3, p = 0.0000).

from the final report of the link ayjay posted

the concluded report can be found here. the report is from 2005 based around the sydney and melbourne scene.

lrn to serch

i'm about to board my plane but i'd love to stay and chat.

 

[xtc123]

hmm ive seen almost black speed, well pretty much was, vegemite colour, thought it was fkn wrongo, never tried it,, around north qld area but ages ago, was overpriced too, i hate wet gunky looking stuff, made me think the person is bit of a derro but i guess this explains a bit

 

[Crankinit]

hmm ive seen almost black speed, well pretty much was, vegemite colour, thought it was fkn wrongo, never tried it,, around north qld area but ages ago, was overpriced too, i hate wet gunky looking stuff, made me think the person is bit of a derro but i guess this explains a bit

I got the same stuff a few years back, though it was fairly cheap. A thick black paste, like vegemite almost.

 

[tyrael]

^^ huh?

No, what I meant was those little bit on the spoon which won't dissolved, put a little heat to the bottom of the spoon (obviously so it doesn't bubble) and that should help them dissolve.

 

[Crankinit]

Wouldn't it be better to avoid using heat? Methamphetamine hcl is water soluble, so whatever isn't dissolving is just the cuts and impurities, and by heating them until they dissolve you're just putting more crap in your body. Would make more sense to let it sit for a few minutes until all of the meth dissolves, then filter it to remove the impurities and shoot that.

I've never shot meth though, so I could be wrong somewhere in there.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^there's no need at all to add heat, meth is highly water soluble. adding heat can turn potential insoluble cuts soluble.

make sure it's crushed as fine as possible, that'll solve the problem.

haha got distracted pressing enter and crankinit beat me to it. letting it sit longer also works fine ime.

 

[titstypedthis]

if its just meth and msm its no big deal too shoot it, its a health supplement after all.

 

[footscrazy]

I'm close enough to the source that I know no-one handles the product in between however I have never seen this person combining the two together with my own eyes (don't really want to be found in such circumstance) so I can only pass on the information that is passed on to me. How ever I trust this person as I have been purchasing from them for a long time and I'm always upfront with them and ask what ratios they are mixing and of what cutter, oil, hcl salt or whatever. They know I'm anal and like to know what I'm consuming. They have no reason to f@#k me around nor I them.

I'd be interested to find out whether freebase and msn can be cut directly, or whether they need some kind of 'emulsifier' to make this work...I will admit I find it hard to believe though I'm not ruling it out completely. I've found that even people very close to the process don't always know exactly what's going on though no doubt some people are more knowledgeable about what they're doing than others.

 

[tyrael]

^there's no need at all to add heat, meth is highly water soluble.

I understand this.

adding heat can turn potential insoluble cuts soluble.
.

Fair enough. My thinking was the other was around. Meth has a high - higher then most cutters - (~190 degrees by memory? ) melting pointing. So my thoughts were if there were any left, it would be meth, seeing as most/all cutters would have melted in the solution (warm if not slightly more) temperature.

Logic sounds good, practicality wrong?

 

[tyrael]

I'd be interested to find out whether freebase and msn can be cut directly, or whether they need some kind of 'emulsifier' to make this work..

One would think it would be easier to convert one to the other then cut one or the other, in either form. That is, cut the salts when in that form, and freebase when in that.

(or am I missing the question?)

 

[titstypedthis]

One would think it would be easier to convert one to the other then cut one or the other, in either form. That is, cut the salts when in that form, and freebase when in that.

(or am I missing the question?)

its like bread crumbs in olive oil, not egzakary difacoolt

 

[gavatron@oz]

going to throw my two cents worth in..
Everyone who smokes gear through a pippi,be it 'smokeable speed'- heavily cut meth and called speed to eliminate the bad stigma people have about meth,be it meth or ice.. They should all one day ,out of interest pack a tiny bowl of straight msmto see what it does..how it melts,the viscosity of it melted,the time to reset and the pattern left behing..this can answer alot of questions..

High purity meth will be like a thick oil once melted.almost lava like.you heat infront of the edge of the drip,and it will reset white ish.

Gear thats runny,leaves shard pattern and doesnt make much smoke is high msm.

Also theres gear that has not had the propersynth and the ephedrine is not activated properly..this leaves a wagonwheele look once reset.looks like a dot with a circle around it.very short high.

The damp meth i thought was gear that did not have the final acetone wash,and was sold wet to increase weight..

As for ice. Isnt that the term once used to describe 4-mar, aka shabu..maybe im getting old

These are just some of the observations ive made.not sure if correct,just observations.

Also the colour is determined by certain regeants not being processed correctly.eg phosphorus giving red..