MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 5)

[Regrets9995]

I have slight aniscorsia and I'm getting obsessed over it being a sign of damage.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

I sometimes find myself getting nauseaous when doing weight training in particular its like I cannot tolerate it as much. Happens less often with cardio but I've had it happen.

This could also be a blood sugar type deal

Theoretically though why aren't we seeing bodybuilders (who are natural--I don't want to count the ones who do anabolic steroids because androgens may counter cortisol) develop MDD, anxiety, OCD etc from training very hard? Aren't they exposed to chronic stress hormones?

What counters that?

Exercise induced cortisol release is somehow "good" I guess but its still the same stress hormone.

I think the counter to exercise related stress hormone release is probably the whole slew of signaling cascades that get activated with exercise, take for example BDNF release with exercise - BDNF could be working in opposition to cortisol. But there are many, many other signaling pathways that could be working in opposition at a cellular level. Exercise is very good about kicking in such pathways.

I think it was estimated at one time that there are over a thousand signaling cascades that get kicked in with exercise.

Cortisol release during exercise is also just going to happen for those 1-2 hours, while cortisol release from gaming for 8 hours straight is a bit different exposure in terms of time (even if the overall amount of cortisol is the same). Its probably a lot healthier to be exposed to stress hormones intermittently, even if the overall amount is similar. This could be as simple as a 30 minute break for every 2 hours of gaming.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

I have slight aniscorsia and I'm getting obsessed over it being a sign of damage.

Do you have headaches/neck pain or other abnormal head sensations? Sorry I can't remember if you do.

Unequal pupil size isn't that uncommon, but it can apparently happen in people with migraines.

 

[Regrets9995]

Yeah I do get headaches and have head pressure on the right side of my forehead, feels like tension is there all of the time. No neck pain though.

 

[ADubbs]

What about finasteride? I've read elsewhere this cured a few people of HPPD

 

[socrilus]

What about finasteride? I've read elsewhere this cured a few people of HPPD

Im sure cotcha will probably agree but

That is an EXTREMELY risky route.

I mentioned earlier about othrr drug induced anxiety/depression stuff and finasteride is a known powerful 5-alpha reductase inhibitor. There are whole forums dedicated to people suffering from side effects of post finasteride syndrome PFS (which includes stuff like anhedonia, panic attacks, and horrid sexual dysfunction).

Which is basically an even worse version of the mental/physical/non HPPD side of an LTC.

DHT is really important for mental health and so is the neurosteroid Allopregnenolone which is made from progesterone in the brain via the 5AR enzyme. Definitely do not want to deplete that stuff which controls a lot of GABA activity.

There actually seem to be more % recoveries from the LTC than finasteride.

 

[fnono33]

DHT is really important for mental health and so is the neurosteroid Allopregnenolone which is made from progesterone in the brain via the 5AR enzyme. Definitely do not want to deplete that stuff which controls a lot of GABA activity.

I feel like this is why no fap works so well for men. It's funny in school they taught us to fap all we wanted. Fapping is slow suicide.

 

[socrilus]

So I've been investigated hormones recently and what came up was

lowish, but low normal, cortisol in the morning and high DHEA-S (this one was above range actually).

Are these things just indicative of some prolonged stress response? Its weird that my DHEA-S is high but doesn't seem to synthesize into T.

These are some biomarkers but totally nonspecific

 

[socrilus]

I think the gut microbiome is also implicated in this LTC and depression in general. https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-06/uoc--rsa062717.php

Considering that MDMA has some immunomodulatory effects and also impacts neurotransmitters, could the bacteria in the gut have been dysregulated?

I definitely need to increase my consumption of fermented products. My whole life I have rarely ate fermented foods....

I don't like the taste but I will have to do whatever might help

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

^My BS detectors get mild readings when it comes to gut microbiome stuff but I still do wonder seeing as I took minocycline for more than a year

Wouldn't tunnel vision on it though.

 

[martainnn]

Dont see why youre so skeptical of the microbiota stuff Cotcha seeing as newer research is showing some interesting data on how the gut plays a role in mental health. Sure drugs have impacted the brain in this so called 'LTC' but that doesnt rule of the role of the gut in terms of recovery. It certainly would be something to 'tunnel vision' on imo seeing as the majority of neurotransmitters are produced in the gut. I believe people stand the best chance of recovery when they tackle it from all possible angles.

Socrilus, i highly recommend tempeh if you are looking to incorporate fermeneted foods.

 

[martainnn]

Yeah I do get headaches and have head pressure on the right side of my forehead, feels like tension is there all of the time. No neck pain though.

I get severe head pressure sometimes as part of my illness. Sometimes it gets so bad that it makes me suicidal and is one of the worst physical symptoms. I find it gets worse after I eat food sometimes for a while or just generally comes on at night. I find that incorporating an abundance of anti-inflammatory foods such as turmeric, cinnamon, and ginger seems to lessen the frequency and intensity of head pressure.

 

[MYH1234]

Hey guys,

Haven't been on here in a few months, so thought I'd give an update as to my progress as I said I would. So it's been 10 months today since I last took MDMA. My symptoms have gotten a bit better but still suffering from bad dizziness, weird head sensations, DP/DR, anxiety, and my head generally feeling fucked. The dizziness is the worst, it's a constant pulsing in the background that feels like a dull brain zap, triggered even further when I move my head.

I was prescribed 15mg Mirtazapine nearly 3 months ago, I was on this dosage for a month. This helped but I found it used to make me feel pretty drowsy a lot of the time, so I moved up to 30mg and I've been on that a month and a half. I was very reluctant to take any medication because to me that felt like a step in the wrong direction and the problem would become a lot more real. However, it has helped me a lot. I went from feeling completely doomed every day, to feeling kind of ok. It's helped me a lot and pulled me out of a hole and I would recommend it to anyone in the same position if you feel you're reaching breaking point.
Mirtazapine does increase your appetite a bit, but i don't notice that anymore. It also affects HPPD but this is a side effect of the drug, I think it happens even with non-LTC users. I barely notice it anyway.

I was prescribed anti vertigo drugs for the dizziness (betahistine) but this didn't seem to do a lot, just made me hayfever 100x worse as it's an analogue of histamine.

I've also been going to some mindfulness sessions. I would say these can help to a certain point, it's good to get things off your chest and there are some good techniques which can make things easier, although it won't get rid of your physical symptoms. The doctor I saw and my mindfulness therapist are absolutely convinced it's anxiety, they don't seem to have experience with the MDMA LTC. He basically showed me all the evidence of this being anxiety, and pointed out I didn't have any evidence for it being biological damage, which is a fair point but he has no idea what the symptoms feel like!

Looking forward to the future, things can only go up from this point on.

 

[fnono33]

hey man, i'm on a similar timeline. Yeah, the doctors claim anxiety for all of it. I suspect physical damage and anxiety both play a role in the symptoms.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Dont see why youre so skeptical of the microbiota stuff Cotcha seeing as newer research is showing some interesting data on how the gut plays a role in mental health. Sure drugs have impacted the brain in this so called 'LTC' but that doesnt rule of the role of the gut in terms of recovery. It certainly would be something to 'tunnel vision' on imo seeing as the majority of neurotransmitters are produced in the gut. I believe people stand the best chance of recovery when they tackle it from all possible angles.

Socrilus, i highly recommend tempeh if you are looking to incorporate fermeneted foods.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26370263 (2015)

"The theory that supplemented probiotic bacteria could affect psychological outcomes has recently been outlined in narrative reviews; to date, however, this area of research has not been systematically reviewed.

Overall, there is very limited evidence for the efficacy of probiotic interventions in psychological outcomes. The evidence base is incomplete and lacks applicability.

CONCLUSIONS: More trials are necessary before any inferences can be made about the efficacy of probiotics in mental health applications."


One of the issues is that we need better validated studies, there have been some supplement scandals before, particularly with curcumin. Supplements are actually a fairly sizeable industry.

I'm not poo-pooing the gut-brain stuff entirely and the organs certainly affect the brain and vice versa, but I've just seen situations before where people will really tunnel vision on stuff like their gut bactera, convinced that they have bacterial overgrowth and that modern agriculture/antibiotics have ruined their GI tract, when their symptoms may have little to do with their GI tract. GI tract diseases are the exception of course, probiotics may help there.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Hey guys,
The dizziness is the worst, it's a constant pulsing in the background that feels like a dull brain zap, triggered even further when I move my head.

I get severe head pressure sometimes as part of my illness. Sometimes it gets so bad that it makes me suicidal and is one of the worst physical symptoms.

I'm telling y'all, cranial nerves play some role in a lot of LTCs

 

[Regrets9995]

Anyone feel like they're never fully sober?? I mean it's getting better but that is how I describe this to friends and family

 

[socrilus]

There are definitely biological alterations but not damage in the LTC. I don't even know how random idiopathic depression or anxiety can begin without the presence of biological imbalances/alterations. Seems impossible to me.

Hormones are one area that can be altered in depression/anxiety so if they were altered by MDMA then that would be a 'biomarker'. But most doctors don't even know how to assess that properly. Theres also the thing about even if something were to be found altered in the HPA axis doctors don't know what to do about it and will just reach for the prescription pad to write an antidepressant (which can restore HPA functioning). My main question is---Is there a difference between HPA Axis Dysfunction induced anxiety/depression vs. standard anxiety/depression. And whether these hormonal biomarkers would be seen even in those undergoing psychological stress. I think they would be but it takes A LOT of psychological stress to mess up the HPA.

I think ive posted this interview before https://selfhacked.com/blog/leading...-sleep-issues-and-circadian-biology/#HPA_axis.

The stanford researcher talks about how even if something is found there is no one magic pill that the doctor can give to fix the problem in this day and age.

I've personally tried Hydrocortisone and it gives temporary LTC remission from non visual snow/tinnitus symptoms but its not sustained at all. When I kept taking it over a few days it had the opposite effect hence it doesn't work long term.

 

[martainnn]

Anyone feel like they're never fully sober?? I mean it's getting better but that is how I describe this to friends and family

For sure, a combination of drunk and stoned Id say, and when its at its worst its like im on a small dose of shrooms or something. However this is something that got a lot better before my relapse but it slowly goes so probably will for you too my friend

 

[martainnn]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26370263 (2015)

"The theory that supplemented probiotic bacteria could affect psychological outcomes has recently been outlined in narrative reviews; to date, however, this area of research has not been systematically reviewed.

Overall, there is very limited evidence for the efficacy of probiotic interventions in psychological outcomes. The evidence base is incomplete and lacks applicability.

CONCLUSIONS: More trials are necessary before any inferences can be made about the efficacy of probiotics in mental health applications."


One of the issues is that we need better validated studies, there have been some supplement scandals before, particularly with curcumin. Supplements are actually a fairly sizeable industry.

I'm not poo-pooing the gut-brain stuff entirely and the organs certainly affect the brain and vice versa, but I've just seen situations before where people will really tunnel vision on stuff like their gut bactera, convinced that they have bacterial overgrowth and that modern agriculture/antibiotics have ruined their GI tract, when their symptoms may have little to do with their GI tract. GI tract diseases are the exception of course, probiotics may help there.

Yeah thats fair, the research isnt there yet. I have seen some interesting stuff though that expands beyond the pre/proboitics stuff and is more relavent to diet and the gut. Ill try and find some stuff when im not on my phone.