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MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 4)

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Hi everyone, I've been struggling a lot with what I believe to be Dp/dr for about a month and a half now, since taking a pill of MDA. I've experienced dream-like states, but sometimes I don't struggle with identifying reality as indeed "real", but other symptoms still persist. I was wondering, between these more intense, dissociative dream-like states, does anyone else experience some lingering level of apathy? Like, I experience emotion, but only at a certain level, I guess it doesn't register as experiencing it physically? During this stage, which is typically more at night (the best time of the day for my symptoms), it just feels as if there is some underlying apathy, like my emotions just aren't fully registering, even though I can express emotion relatively normally. My brain almost feels quiet, or too calm, and I'm able to play the "happy/social" role well, but there's nothing, at a deep level, really registering/going on. Could this not be the dp/dr, but rather a long-term effect from the drug? It seems like such a physiological problem, it's completely out of my control.
 
Hellome said:
Hi everyone, I've been struggling a lot with what I believe to be Dp/dr for about a month and a half now, since taking a pill of MDA. I've experienced dream-like states, but sometimes I don't struggle with identifying reality as indeed "real", but other symptoms still persist. I was wondering, between these more intense, dissociative dream-like states, does anyone else experience some lingering level of apathy? Like, I experience emotion, but only at a certain level, I guess it doesn't register as experiencing it physically? During this stage, which is typically more at night (the best time of the day for my symptoms), it just feels as if there is some underlying apathy, like my emotions just aren't fully registering, even though I can express emotion relatively normally. My brain almost feels quiet, or too calm, and I'm able to play the "happy/social" role well, but there's nothing, at a deep level, really registering/going on. Could this not be the dp/dr, but rather a long-term effect from the drug? It seems like such a physiological problem, it's completely out of my control.
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I have this issue as well. I think it's basically your brain going into 'safe mode' because to feel emotions would be too difficult. Like a protection mechanism. For me I think it's physiological with some psychological mixed in.
 
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Budal202 said:
I even did one year treatment with sulpiride 50mg, xanax 2mg and 20mg lexapro and decided to stop taking all medicines.
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Hey Budal! Glad to hear you're doing so well. Can you tell us more about the medications - if they might have played a role in your recovery? If you recovered sometime after being on those meds for a long time then it is possible that they played a role, even if you did not recover while still on the medications and there was a gap between when you stopped the meds and recovered. Although I am a big advocate of doing whatever we can consciously (mindfulness, anti-rumination techniques) to recover as well, I just think that some people may need to approach the problem from more than one angle if one angle isn't cutting it.

Fare well :)
 
INeedsomeanswers said:
Has anyone had success in decreasing brain zaps? I've heard fish oil and b12 can help but I haven't tried them long enough to tell a difference (3 days). My boyfriend gets them worse than I do but he still rolls and I'm scared to tell him to take fish oil or b12 if it'll have a reaction when he rolls.
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If its any comfort, brain zaps have been found to be a peripheral nerve paraesthesia, and not something occurring in the brain itself (its something that occurs in the nerves of the head, and it often coincides with movement of the head). B vitamins are important but I don't know if they would help, you should certainly be able to try a B complex without any risk of adverse reactions, in fact for MDMA overdose they give thiamine (B1) in the hospitals.

I haven't heard of any miracle cures for brain zaps unfortunately, but people get them from SSRI withdrawal chronically as well and they don't seem to be harmful. They're most certainly not occurring in the brain itself at least.
 
Hellome said:
My brain almost feels quiet, or too calm, and I'm able to play the "happy/social" role well, but there's nothing, at a deep level, really registering/going on
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This is the DP/DR, it can feel as though there is a big disconnect both in perception and feelings - after all, they are linked. For example, if you weren't able to perceive your child graduating from college (with sight, hearing etc, watching them walk across the stage), then you might not be able to experience all the feelings that come along with that experience if you had had full perception. The good news is that you're only a month and a half in, it usually takes people a couple more months to start feeling better, but psychological techniques like mindfulness can be helpful for shifting your neural circuitry (especially if you find yourself ruminating and thinking too much or not sleeping well) and cardio is also very helpful for anhedonia.
 
PillsAndKills said:
Would still love to be 100% again but with each passing month I just feel myself becoming more and more used to living like this and less bothered by it all, perhaps that's the way to truly get through it? I don't know.
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Glad to hear you're getting on okay, I'm sure you'll continue to feel better and better and gain more and more momentum.

"Let it be". Wishing things were some other way than the way they currently are is a good way to stress yourself out and delay recovery I think.
 
Well last Monday my meeting with Dr. Abraham went "ok". He basically said I have very mild HPPD, big black/translucent floaters, very occasional visual snow, tinnitus, things moving in peripheral vision. He didn't have a time frame, but he said he "has no reason to believe it wouldn't go away". I told him about how I was doing "ok" after my second comedown/relapse, and how jerking it through everything for a real bad loop. He said this is possible, especially since my brain was in such a sensitive state.

The first thing he said when he looked at the summary I typed up for him was...."Your sleep is terrible". This really seemed to be his main concern. I also asked him about Clonodine, Pregablin, Belsomra etc. - he said don't even bother. He said I wouldn't like Clonodine, makes you feel like crap, even though it's helped some of his patients. I asked him about the Mirtazapine, and my concerns about receptor down regulation. He cut me off and said "don't worry about that". He said SSRI's aren't necessarily a good or a bad idea, but since Mirt is a NaSSA, and I was on such a low dose, he didn't see an issue. I also asked about Amitriptyline. He stated that my PCP was on the right path, and I could take that as well, and to not worry about making things worse.

He said never to smoke Marijuana again (not that I was planning on it), as this could retrigger symptoms. He also said I have the "gene" for this, since my family history is terrible (major depressive disorder in immediate and extended family, drug addiction, acid flashbacks, alcoholics, etc.).

He did hammer the fact of not "looking" for your symptoms....don't look at the floaters, don't look for things moving in your peripherals....keep focused on what your doing. He also said anxiety WILL make it worse, so don't obsess if you're not doing well.

After we discussed all this he said "you need a long acting benzodiazepine"...(I figured it would end at this). I expressed my concerns with addiction, but he didn't seem to worried about it. So basically he sent me packing with a script for valium, 10 mg for 30 days, which is fine - but I haven't taken it yet. He said my PCP and I can decide on what to do after that. He also plans on having a phone conversation with her about my condition. He's retiring in December, so I might make one more appointment with him as a follow up, and to see if he can give me names of psychiatrists who may be able to help me long term, if needed.

That being said - I slept 4 nights last week (about 5 hours each night) without medication (just valerian). The face tingling subsided for the most part. However,last night I was awake until 2:30 AM and had to take a 10mg Amitryptaline. Slept until 7 AM. Feel "ok" today, but face tingles are back. We'll see how tonight goes. I really just want to drop all the meds, but a night w/o sleep fucks me up horrendously.

Cotcha - what are your thoughts on the Amitryp? Seems to be an anticholinergic, which are bad for HPPD, and long term comedowns, no? My PCP said I can take it "as-needed", which is comforting. I've seen mixed reviews about it on HPPDonline, some say try it and see if it helps.

I read Kava Kava is a weak MAO-B, has me concerned as well about trying the tea I have....considering my curcumin experience. I might try a tea bag of it during the day, see what happens.
 
I think addressing the sleep is indeed the right thing to do. I think a combination of mindfulness practice and cardio plus some medication is the best way forward in that regard. Its okay to sit on a med for a while and let things settle down, then you can taper really slowly. Amitriptyline is good, but I think it all comes down to individual reaction - after all some people can handle tons of Benadryl just fine. I'm probably biased against anti-cholinergics because I'm one of those people that's always had paradoxical reactions to Benadryl, and if you read through the HPPD mega-thread on here somewhere there are people reporting HPPD from Benadryl abuse/megadoses, but this is talking 50 pills and such. (which I used to stupidly do as well and have had issues since from that).

Amitriptyline would be good to try for a while (3+ months) before Valium but Valium is certainly an option, and you can always try some if something is really stressing you out or if you really need some sleep. But I do think your brain stands a lot to gain from being on Amitriptyline for a while. Its very pro-growth and pro-neuroplasticity. The only real hiccup is that its possible that at some point the anti-histamine effect is desensitized and it starts to not work as well for sleep, but it could be the case that many other effects of it keep going strong and help you sleep. Blockade of excitatory 5HT2A receptors, the principle receptor responsible for psychedelic's effects (and also MDMA's major metabolite MDA), don't actually upregulate and sensitize in response to blockade - they desensitize even further. 5HT2A blockers are very effective insomnia agents.

The issue with mirtazapine's 5HT2A blockade is that you can't get the dose high enough without other wakeful effects kicking in. And also, the parts of Amitriptyline that aren't inherently sedating (the pro-growth parts) could definitely help with brain function/connectivity/physiology/neuroplasticity in some way that helps your insomnia, even though it may not be acutely sedating. So I would try the amitriptyline for a few months and see how it goes. If you need to take the Valium its there though.
 
Thanks, as always. So wouldn't desensitizing 5HT2A even further (with meds), be bad? Don't we want to upregulate?

Yeah I'm going to continue taking it "as needed", and hopefully I'll need it less and less. I'll leave the valium for the really bad times.

50 pills??!! Holy crap that doesn't even sound fun, just scary! I've never abused allergy/cold meds so hopefully my experience will be a bit different. I can see why you're hesitant though.
 
Budal202 said:
Hello guys.

I am here to update you. It's been a while since I've posted anything here, why? I recovered 100%. In fact I can say that I recovered 200% cuz I live better than any time in my life now. I've never been so happy, so focused, so wise and in controll as I am now.


I went trough the most horrible moments of my life not long ago, and I can't help to notice the similarity between what I went trough with many of you here.

For those of you who doesn't know my story, you can click my user and see my latest posts, see the desperation in my words.

Summing up, I took like 30 pills of E in my life, and one night I exagerated and took 700mg. I had a panic atack and went into a deep depersonalization. I started to have insomnia. I was wakin up 3-4 times a night. Spent numerous sleepless nights with extremely high anxiety and terrifying thoughts about going crazy, about never return to normal again, about suicide. I started to wake up 5 to 7 times per night. It became my endless routine, 24 hours a day thinking I lost my mind, thinking that night messed my neuro system. I became obsessed about neuro system damage and i was sure that happened to me. I was sleeping like 2/3 hours a night, working the whole day like a zombie. Extreme difficulty to concentrate, my memory simply wasn't working. My libido was fucked up. I couldn't get it up even alone. Tought it was a permanent damage caused by ecstasy and it freaked me out so badly. I felt palpitations all day in my head and other parts of the body. I was constantly afraid of having a heart attack. My heart was racing all day, my legs were shaking all day. I consulted with 5 different psychiatrists, one neurologist and one psychologist. There was a time when, at some moments I could not distinguish reality from a dream. I had earworms all day, non stopping songs playing in my head over and over again. I was tortured by brain fog and anhedonia. I just couldn't concentrate in living life. I was always inside my own head, not consciously living my life. I was permanently stuck in my mind with never-ending devastating thoughts.

It was the darkest time of my life. I don't wish what I went trough even to the worst person in this world. I tought i had all kinds of disease: Brain Dammage, Alzheimer, Parkinson, Schizophrenia, Multiple Sclerosis. I bought all kinds of supplements: Ashwagandha, Gingko Biloba, Rhodiola, Melatonin, ZMA, Glutamine, Maca, Tribulus, Pregnenolone, Gaba plus, Magnesium, Omega 3, and these were very expensive shit (I don't take any of these crap today). You can get a sense of my level of despair.

but hey, I'm cured now, how did this happen?


You can check my latest posts and you will find several tips, but I can say that my problem was 100% psychological, as I believe it'salso the reality to many here. No brain damage, only a young man in collapse that needed to analyze his life.


I wrote about 4 books about my life, and I understood that all this was a depersonalization caused by my anxiety and obsessive thinking. So I learned to control it and today I am much better.


I even did one year treatment with sulpiride 50mg, xanax 2mg and 20mg lexapro and decided to stop taking all medicines. Today I'm a sex machine, absolutely no problems with libido, constantlu smoking marijuana (could not smoke without having panic attacks) and what I can say to you is: don't give up, and seek to understand more about yourself. The best way to do this is to write, write what you feel, why you feel it, when you began to feel that way. Each one of you have your own journey. You'll get better only when start understanding about yourself, there is no cure, miracle supplement. Meditation and exercise are good but are not the cure. What really will heal you is your own mind, the way you think and face life. I recommend watching the movie "Waking Life" I began to improve considerably from the moment I got the message the movie passes. I just returned from the best weekend of my life and I can say I've never been so happy and I can guarantee that all of you will reach it.

if you have any specific questions, feel free to ask. I will try to help the most but know: yes, it's possible to return to normal, it is even possible to be better than before.


Stay strong.
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How long did your recovery take you?
 
I don't know if this helps you decide but I once took valium for 30 days and had not trouble coming off them.
 
5HT2A is kind of a "bad" sort of serotonin, it's found to be over expressed in some suicidal people and activation of 5HT2A can cause quite the insomnia.

Serotonin cells (that release serotonin) have to be able to communicate with other cells, so the vast majority of serotonin receptors are actually on non-serotonergic cells.
 
It's been 8 months since i last took MDMA. And i've only ever taken MDMA twice.
I have bad bruxism, ever since that 2nd roll. The only difference with that experience is that i had sex in the shower and the orgasm sent my brain into a weird state. Like, my roll suddenly stopped, and slowly built up again, and i didn't experience much pleasure from the orgasm.
I can't find any reports from other people who got permanent bruxism from minimal MDMA exposure, perhaps im just unlucky
 
jaiho said:
It's been 8 months since i last took MDMA. And i've only ever taken MDMA twice.
I have bad bruxism, ever since that 2nd roll. The only difference with that experience is that i had sex in the shower and the orgasm sent my brain into a weird state. Like, my roll suddenly stopped, and slowly built up again, and i didn't experience much pleasure from the orgasm.
I can't find any reports from other people who got permanent bruxism from minimal MDMA exposure, perhaps im just unlucky
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Check out Derok's posts
 
Thanks fnono. Good to know.

Sooo down regulation of 5HT2A, good? I feel like I've asked this 100 times, my apologies lol.

I've had bruxism since July 7, I only did E twice as well (granted w/ in 3 nights).

Also jerking it threw me into my LTC, so your not alone with it screwing you up. There's so many neurotransmitters at play during orgasm, it makes perfect sense that it would amplify effects.

Some anecdotal reports on the web of orgasms increasing HPPD symptoms as well, albeit temporarily. It's been 3 months without one for me.... I'm not doing it until I feel mostly better either. It sounds ridiculous but that's what happened.
 
I think there's two camps to this...

One is a group of folks who didn't feel "right" after a few days....and started to go downhill badly. Their roll was more or less fine as well. To me it seems some sort of underlying anxiety order was brought to the surface. I feel ADs help these people as there's minimal "damage" per say. Often times there's a lack of true HPPd symptoms in these people.

Then there's a group of people who had a Horrible Roll and OD, and are still feeling effects of that (Nambo, Futura, FBC, myself?). I feel this group has some actual "brain damage" if you want to call it that. ADs might or might not help these folks....since the serotonin system is so screwed up. Typically HPPD symptoms are shown on this group as well...which are anxiety related but not entirely.

Just my thoughts.... I've read through almost all the threads, and these seem to be the two common groups.

Just me thinking out loud.
 
Yes as soon as i went on an SSRI + TCA combination my head cleared up immensely. Post roll i always had this foggy DP/DR feeling.
The main reason i decided to start using drugs was to feel emotions again, and it worked for a few months after my 1st roll, so i thought i found the right drug. then the 2nd roll sent me into a deeper depression & the permanent bruxism, even with ADs.
 
Another thing, off meds, my LSD trips are always bad now. and weed gives me severe paranoia. before MDMA they helped my depression, and made me feel alive.
Now i feel extremely empty & numb when i trip on LSD, or shrooms i couldn't even trip on 2 grams lemon tekked.
Hope my brain isn't fried.
 
ADubbs said:
Sooo down regulation of 5HT2A, good? I feel like I've asked this 100 times, my apologies lol
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Lol yes it's a good thing, most likely. Hard to really say for sure when it comes to LTC sufferers, but for major depression sufferers it's a good thing. And of course no worries.

I've suspected different camps for some time now as well, but I just broadly had chronic MDMA abuse residual effects vs. LTC sufferers, LTC sufferers being people who have most of their symptoms come after/during one particular roll. At some point those two groups can intersect as well.

But I wouldn't throw around the term damage, and also IF there was indeed injury to the serotonin axons that release serotonin then SSRIs would be a good thing because they would help alleviate that scenario of a serotonin deficit, and facilitate recovery of normal function and physiological health.

In other words, the serotonin receptors on the post-synaptic cell (a non-serotonergic neuron that still has serotonin receptors that are normally receiving serotonin released from the pre-synaptic serotonergic cell) might need to be stimulated in order to encourage growth and sensitization of the response to serotonin.

In short, use it or lose it - more serotonin signaling might mean more serotonin signaling related growth.
 
jaiho said:
Another thing, off meds, my LSD trips are always bad now. and weed gives me severe paranoia. before MDMA they helped my depression, and made me feel alive.
Now i feel extremely empty & numb when i trip on LSD, or shrooms i couldn't even trip on 2 grams lemon tekked.
Hope my brain isn't fried.
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Is this on SSRIs or a tricyclic, or recently withdrawn from one? A TCA like amitryptyline would significantly impact an LSD/shroom trip because it blocks and desensitizes the receptors that LSD normally binds to that are responsible for tripping, and I bet the desensitization sticks around for a while after coming off of it.
 
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