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MDMA mixed with Piperazines Pipes BZP

futura2012

futura2012

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
1,371
Hello

Thought I would start this thread in hope I can share information with other people who have been affected from this awful combination.

It seems for some of us unlucky few when you mix MDMA and BZP some kind of long term comedown is triggered.

I have personally had two of these comedowns from this BZP mix.

One lasted for 6 months the other one I am still unfortunately experiencing.

This comedown experience is truly AWFUL. My life has been shot to shreds.

I picked this up from a king pin post in 2008

"CYP2D6 is the enzyme that breaks down both MDxx and Piperazines. Now when you take the two together they both inhibit the CYP2D6 from breaking down the other. As a consiquence neather realy get broken down and your body can't handle being intoxicated for that long as such. Its thought that taking the mdma first gives the worse results as its the stronger inhibiter."

mr blonde

"Well, keep in mind that MDMA is mostly excreted from your body unchanged, it doesn't get metabolized much. BZP though could probably be affected, whether it's dangerous or not I don't know. "

the extreme

David Urpeth, Assistant Deputy Coroner of Sheffield, England, said there is a “significant chance” that more deaths will occur from BZP, which is “a new drug and a cause for concern.” Urpeth said that BZP is not deadly on its own, as it is only about a tenth the strength of Ecstasy, but that it “appears to cause death in conjunction with Ecstasy.” And since it is much less potent than Ecstasy, it’s likely that most people will use BZP to enhance the experience of MDMA.


Just wondering if there is anyone else out there with a similiar experience with this horrible MDMA and BZP mixture and to possibley try and find out more as to the true cause of it..

I am particularly to know if anyone understands in more detail apossible theory as to the cause of this.

Is the CYP2D6 enzyme the actual cause?

Has anyone taken any meds and had success stories?

Whats your story?

Futura
 
Hi Futura,

i'm in month 4 of recovery from that awful combination, 1 day mdma, next day a pipe pill (supposedly BZP), when i woke up the following day i knew something was very off.

i never experienced a bad comedown from mdma alone, but that combination blew my head.

maybe the enzyme for producing serotonin tph is much more affected with this combination. i don't know, but there is certainly some bad interaction between those two drugs.

i really would be interested in some other opinions/ experiences too.

meanwhile i will try to find some more info on the net about it.

be warned fellow Blers, this is a very dangerous mix.

and futura, thanks for making that thread - hopefully there will come something good out of it.

best of luck :)
 
Hello Cope

Cheers for your kind words. I am sure there is a lot to be learnt from this BZP/MDMA combo thing as it seems are both suffering.

I also noted another user on here having a dreadful time from a bzp pill "thizzin since 98" I hope he has recovered okay now.

Based on info from my initial post I have been reading up about the CYP2D6 enzyme

It appears that it plays a critical role in the metabolization of compounds that arent supposed to be in us ie a xenobiotic. MDMA, BZP and pretty much all illicit drugs fall into this category.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CYP2D6
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_pharmacology1.shtml
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...pharmacokinetics-in-a-CYP2D6-poor-metaboliser

MDMA seems to bind to this enzyme. So does BZP.

Is it theoretically possible that CYP2D6 enzyme could get totally locked out or damaged by the MDMA/BZP combo and thus become disfunctional in someway?


I have also been looking into CYP2D6 inducers (ie boosters)

I was looking at Rifampicin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifampicin

"Rifampicin is an effective liver enzyme-inducer, promoting the upregulation of hepatic cytochrome P450 enzymes (such as CYP2C9 and CYP3A4), increasing the rate of metabolism of many other drugs that are cleared by the liver through these enzymes."


Could there be a theory that the CYP2D6 enzyme has got locked up by the BZP/MDMA combo and use of a drug such as Rifampicin could theoretically unlock or boost it?? Ie be a cure of this awful drug induced state we are currently in?

Its a long shot and only a theory but could make some sense I need to look more into the CYP2D6 enzyme. Try and understand a little more about it.

I will keep you posted :)
 
Link discussing tfmpp and bzp interactions

http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/122-1303/3794/content.pdf

I picked up on this:

Other recreational drugs have been shown to cause clinically important interactions
with prescription medicines. For example, an episode of severe and prolonged effects
following a small dose of MDMA by an individual under ritonavir and saquinavir
treatment for HIV-1 infection has been reported.6

This effect was linked to P450 inhibition (specifically CYP2D6 and CYP3A4
inhibition) by the antiretroviral drugs, leading to reduced clearance of MDMA. Due to
the similarities in the metabolism of MDMA and the piperazine-based drugs, similar
adverse effects might be observed in cases where antiretroviral drugs or other potent
P450 inhibitors are co-administered with ‘party pill’ drugs.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19589229

This link confirms that piperazines hammer the enzymes

All piperazine analogues tested showed significant inhibitory activity against most, if not all, isoenzymes tested. The metabolism of benzylpiperazine (BZP) and trifluoromethylphenylpiperazine (TFMPP) involved CYP2D6, CYP1A2 and CYP3A4. Furthermore, BZP and TFMPP inhibited each other's metabolism.
CONCLUSIONS:

Fluorophenylpiperazine, methoxyphenylpiperazine, chlorophenylpiperazine, methylbenzylpiperazine and methylenedioxybenzylpiperazine had significant inhibitory effects on CYP2D6, CYP1A2, CYP3A4, CYP2C19 and CYP2C9 isoenzymes but each piperazine had a different inhibitory profile. The metabolic interaction between BZP and TFMPP may have clinical implications, as these agents are often combined in 'party pills'.




It seems clear that the post from Kingpin is backed up by several medical journals. His information is spot on.

There is a lot of evidence pointing at adverse reactions because of inhibiting metabolism from these enzymes. This is caused by the piperazines. The addition of MDMA seems to complicate things further.

Interesting to see even BZP and TFMPP inhibit each others metabolism!! and this is legal and supposedly safe??


The next thing I need to try and figure out is what effects this inhibiting does to the body.

From there may lie a clue to how to get out of this dreadful space we are trapped in :)
 
hey futura,

thank you for your research - it's an interesting and valid approach. did you find any info on how long the metabolism is inhibited ?

as i am no expert on biology nor chemistry i sadly cannot give an qualified answer - i read that there are tests which can be done to see if that enzyme is out of normal levels.

also people who have low CYP2D6 levels can have toxic reactions to antidepressants, neuroleptics and beta blockers - tramal / tramadol does not work on these people.

i want to share some other options, which i thought of:

- down regulation of serotonin receptors
- deactivation of the tph enzyme for much longer than mdma use only, thus no to very little serotonin production
- loss of axons

let's keep on digging - any input is appreciated :)
 
Last edited:
Done a bit more research.

A lot of this topic relates to discusssions involving alcohol and tobacco but there is a reference in here to meth and MDMA also.

The CYP2D6 enzyme clearly plays an important part in metabolism of MDMA and BZP. Particularly if MDMA and BZP combined together attack or lock out this enzyme in some way.

I think my next line of approach is to try and email some of the doctors producing this research with a set of questions and see how things progress from there.

i also notice this enzyme plays an important role in metabolizing antidepressants. I have had an awful reaction to antidepressants I dont know if there is any link formed by this.

This is clearly a hardcore topic. The other problem I am having right now is my brain is slow and my memory is damaged so taking all this in is not easy.

I wont give up as I really think this CYP2D6 enzyme holds the key to why BZP has such an awful reaction on some people.

I will keep digging. Sorry for the BLAST of info below but it is relevant.



Source

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1471-4159.2002.01069.x/full

Cytochromes P450 (CYP) are a superfamily of heme-containing mono-oxygenases that have been identified in bacteria, plants and animals (Nebert et al. 1991). In mammals, the liver is generally accepted to be the major organ involved in CYP-mediated metabolism, but there is increasing evidence that these enzymes are present in extrahepatic tissues and that they may contribute to the local in situ metabolism of drugs and activation of carcinogens and toxins (Krishna and Klotz 1994). In brain, CYP expression is localized to specific regions and cell-types and there have been a number of surveys of specific CYP in both animal and human brains (Warner and Gustafsson 1994; Ravindranath 1998; Miksys et al. 2000a; Voirol et al. 2000), particularly for those enzymes involved in the metabolism of centrally acting drugs.

The CYP2D6 gene cluster on chromosome 22 comprises the functional CYP2D6 and two putative pseudogenes CYP2D7 and CYP2D8 (Heim and Meyer 1992). The CYP2D6 gene is polymorphic and 5–10% of Caucasians show a poor metabolizer (homozygous for null alleles) phenotype (Meyer et al. 1990). This leads to impaired metabolism of many centrally acting drugs and toxins suchastricyclic antidepressants, SSRIs, monoamine oxidaseinhibitors, amphetamines, codeine, neuroleptics, 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (MPTP) and tetrahydroisoquinoline (TIQ) (Parkinson 1996). There are interindividual differences in responses to drugs metabolized by CYP2D6 which are caused primarily by polymorphic gene expression, but also may be influenced by factors such as hormonal state, diet and tobacco use (Llerena et al. 1996; Wadelius et al. 1997; Vincent-Viry et al. 2000); xenobiotic regulation of expression of this enzyme in the brain may also contribute. Defects in the CYP2D6 gene have been associated with a number of CNS diseases such as Parkinson's disease (Riedl et al. 1998), Alzheimer's disease (Tanaka et al. 1998), neuroleptic-induced disorders such as tardive dyskinesia (Ohmori et al. 1998) and certain types of CNS cancer (Wundrack et al. 1994; Elexpuru-Camiruaga et al. 1995), although not all studies agree.

There have been several surveys of CYP2D protein and RNA in rat brain (Norris et al. 1996; Riedl et al. 1999; Tyndale et al. 1999; Miksys et al. 2000b) but there is verylittle information available on the regional and cellulardistribution of CYP2D6 in human brain. CYP2D6 mRNA has been isolated from brain (Tyndale et al. 1991; McFadyen et al. 1998) and recently the cellular expression of mRNA and protein has been reported in several human brain regions (Siegle et al. 2001). The present study is the first detailed report of CYP2D6 protein and RNA distribution among 13 human brain regions from 14 individual cases, of the cellular location of the enzyme, and of differences between alcoholics and nonalcoholics. In addition, cases were genotyped to improve interpretation of RNA and protein data. It is well known that certain brain regions suffer specific cell damage and loss in alcoholics. We were interested in assessing changes in expression of CYP2D6, an enzyme that may activate a number of exogenous and endogenous toxins in situ in the brain, in these vulnerable brain regions. In rat brain, CYP2D is induced by ethanol (Warner and Gustafsson 1994) and in humans, ethanol and tobacco use may alter, or be altered by, CYP2D6 enzyme activity (Llerena et al. 1996; Boustead et al. 1997; Saarikoski et al. 2000; Vincent-Viry et al. 2000). These data lead us to investigate whether CYP2D6 was expressed differently in brains of alcoholics compared to nonalcoholics and/or in brains of smokers compared to non-smokers.

As CYP2D6 can catalyze the endogenous formation of dopamine from tyramine (Hiroi et al. 1998) and both dopamine and serotonin brain levels are altered during chronic ethanol consumption (Uzbay et al. 2000) and ethanol withdrawal (Uzbay et al. 1998), elevated levels of CYP2D6 in brains of alcoholics may play a role in the behavioral and toxicological effects of ethanol.

CYP2D6 metabolizes tobacco smoke-specific nitrosamines to toxic and carcinogenic compounds (Patten et al. 1996), activates known neurotoxins such as 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (MPTP) (Gilham et al. 1997) and tetrahydroisoquinoline (TIQ) (Suzuki et al. 1992) and drugs of abuse such as methamphetamine and methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA or ecstasy) (Chu et al. 1996; Ramamoorthy et al. 2001). Thus, individuals with higher brain levels of CYP2D6, such as alcoholics and possibly smokers, may be at higher risk of neurotoxicity from both increased drug metabolism and lipid peroxidation. Conversely, the argument can be made that higher levels of CYP2D6 may be protective, and the cells observed in this study have been prevented from dying.

CYP2D6 metabolizes a number of centrally acting psychoactive drugs such as tricyclic antidepressants, neuroleptics and anticonvulsants, and in situ metabolism by this enzyme in the brain may strongly influence the therapeutic efficacy or on- and off-set of action of these drugs. This is supported by this demonstration of the presence and highly localized cellular distribution of CYP2D6 protein in human brain regions. An example of the importance of in situ brain enzyme activity is the O-demethylation by CYP2D6 of codeine to morphine during the initial phases of analgesic action of codeine

In summary, CYP2D6 protein and RNA was detected in 13 human brain regions at levels which were region- and cell-specific. Higher amounts of CYP2D6 protein were found in brain regions of alcoholics and of smokers. High CYP2D6 immunoreactivity was observed in the same cells that suffer ethanol-induced damage and cell death in the hippocampus and cerebellum of alcoholics. CYP2D6 may contribute to ethanol-induced cell damage by producing toxic metabolites in situ, or conversely CYP2D6 may provide protection from cell death. Higher levels of CYP2D6 in brains of alcoholics may contribute to altered sensitivity to centrally active drugs, and to increased susceptibility to neurotoxicity by in situ metabolism of drugs, endogenous compounds and environmental and tobacco smoke-derived compounds.

Individuals can vary greatly in their response to drugs. Much of this interindividual variability can be due to
differences in levels of enzymes responsible for drug metabolism and inactivation (Nebert and Weber 1990).
These variations in metabolism are difficult to predict and can result in adverse side effects in certain individuals
to whom these drugs are administered. In some cases, drug metabolism polymorphisms have been described
in which certain individuals are incapable of metabolizing one or more drugs.
 
Here is an article suggesting that the BZP / MDMA Combo shoots serotonin up by upto 16x. Dopamine by x4 and a spike in noradrenalin prolonging the effects of the drugs for several hours.

This could be why some get totally drained from the BZP/MDMA as combo as they are just totally drained of the three primary neurotransmitters.

I am still confused however as I have totally over done it on MDMA before for several days draining myself of everything. I had a dreadful 1 week comedown yes but not a six month comedown like the BZP/MDMA coctail.



Source: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...-themselves-ecstasy-hint-it-isnt-always-mdma/

Hudson zeroed in on BZP, a failed anti-parasitic and anti-depressive which came into vogue several years ago as a cocaine-like ecstasy additive in his home country, England.

Local RCMP told Hudson that BZP was now being found in ecstasy tablets in Edmonton, and Hudson applied for funding from the Canadian Institutes of Health Research to lead a study into the interaction of the two chemicals.

The cocktail of MDMA and BZP created a “double-whammy effect” in rat populations. Motor movements spiked, what Hudson calls a “mild serotonin syndrome”: the rodents sniffed, groomed, reared up and shuffled their front paws at higher rates. Neurotransmitter levels — measured by brain probes inserted under sedation — were even clearer. Ecstasy targets serotonin, but BZP has a negligible effect. But in the MDMA-BZP cocktail, brain serotonin levels shot up 16-fold. A similar effect was seen with dopamine — the neurotransmitter linked to feelings of a rush, as well as addiction and psychosis — with an MDMA and BZP cocktail quadrupling the levels. A third neurotransmitter — noradrenalin, associated with alertness and mood changes — also spiked, prolonging the effects of the drugs for several hours.

With a higher, longer, and potentially more addictive high, it’s little wonder the cheaper BZP would find its way into MDMA pills. And with an increased chance of serotonin syndrome — along with greater agitation — it also shows why pill additives are so worrying.

“You’re really playing Russian roulette,” said Sgt. Lorne Adamitz of the RCMP’s Drugs and Organized Crime Awareness Unit in Edmonton. “Not only do you not know what’s in there, but you don’t even know the dosages. And because of your body type and genetics, you don’t know how susceptible your body is as well.”
 
Hey Futura,

First of all, great work, tons of research and articles for me to look over, and like you said, my brain is also working at a slower pace, and my short term memory still hasn't come back much since my incident, so I am going to have to read over this information a few times to soak it all in.

Unfortunately, I still haven't recovered. Things have gotten better but I'd said I'm only about 50% of the way there. I feel like I haven't improved at all in months, which leads me to think that this is as good as its going to get for me. At least I didn't completely lose my mind or life, but I am still devastated. After all, I am only 19 years young. I haven't even lived life yet, and now I'm sitting here, mentally crippled.

All I can say is it really fucking sucks, and for anyone looking over these threads, save yourself the heartache and pain, and test everything you buy, if it comes back as BZP or TFMPP, I would suggest throwing it away. It's not worth the side effects.
 
Hello Thizzin

Thanks for your reply. Seems so far we have found three of us all with an awful long term reaction to bzp.

Heres my story

For me I am 38, I have a previous histrory of

approx 400 E hits over 18 years
I was a polydrug user
occasionally smoking weed, (not a huge amount as i didnt like it so much
occasionally nitros balloons (odd club gig here and there)
taking coke (occasional lines before clubbing with mates etc)
lsd (taken twice didnt like)
crystal meth (once railed it didnt like)
amphetamine (bombed didnt like)

Never had long term comedown until I encountered BZP. First time was at festival.

Was a three day binge had taken large doses of E maybe 4 or 5 tabs plus MDMA powder, last night of show was given pill that clearly wasnt MDMA.

I took it and my face heated up real bad. Couldnt sleep for approx 2 days. Eventually fell asleep then woke up "Not feeling right" this was the first time i ever encountered bzp.

For six months I never took any drugs, i never even went online to learn about what it was i had. I guess i just ignored it. One day almost 6 moths later the increased heart beat went away, I then slept well that night and my true personality came back. It was like a spell had been released.

During the time of the first comedown i had:

Insomnia (approx 4 hours sleep max per night)
Feeling of uneasyness, weird destructive thoughts
Anxiety (increased heart beat)

The cause of this first comedown was I estimate approx 500mG of MDMA with a single BZP pill.

After the first comedown if I look back on it I dont think i was fully recovered.

My memory had been affected and also my sleep was never totally fixed but i did sleep properly and i did sleep feeling energised and better the next day.

During the two year period between long comedowns I had been taking MDMA maybe three or four times and
it effected me in the same way as always. No issues

Along comes the next comedown 2 years later.

Break up with girlfriend so a little sad decided to go clubbing with some friends.

I took one very strong pill scored from a friend, one mdma capsule

Took the two together very intense come up awesome fun for 4-5 hours all good.

Then decided to score a pill in the club, big mistake.

Immediately started to come up again hot flushed face, oh no it was BZP again. Immediately I started to feel it all of a sudden started to feel really wired and tripped out.

We eventually left the club, i drove home, again I was awake for about two days. Eventually fell asleep woke up exactly the same feeling.

Anxiety
Heart pounding
Felt very uneasy about things
Insomnia

This happened in approx beginning Sept 2011

The symptoms were identical but this time made the fatal error of taking more MDMA in December 2011

I took approx 100mG as a christmas celebration with friends.

BIG FUCKING MISTAKE.

The MDMA had no effect at all in a positive way. No feel good, no nice rush nothing. Just a weird wired feeling kinda speedy little bit trippy

Now new symptoms in addition to the other ones

Panic Attacks
HPPD
OCD Symptoms
Paranoia
Total lazyness/apathy

I was now in a really bad way.

Over time it got better had a few days where i would be okay feel normal from time to time.

Then just to make matters worse went to a party in April 2012, drank some punch and was later told it contained MDMA high dose. I estimate for me 300mG

Talk about bad luck. New symptoms now

Further HPPD
Apathy to the point of bed or sofa nothing more
feeling of dispair constant tears
weird ocd thoughts very strong
Sensitive to Light
Sensitive to Sound
Total social isolation

Its now August 2012 5 months later from the last dose of MDMA. Symptoms have got a bit better. HPPD has improved but as you can appreciate life isnt quite the same.


in summary

BZP / MDMA mix Aug 2009. Anxiety/Insomnia recovered Feb 2010

Took MDMA 2010 and 2011 no problems

BZP / MDMA mix Sept 2011. Anxiety/Insomnia

Then took MDMA Dec 2011. Symptoms got worse

Spiked MDMA April 2012 Symptoms got worse still

August 2012 still in recovery


38 years old, 18 year drug history approx 400 hits over this time.
 
If you look at the history and age of all three of us.

It seems that age, drug history doesnt seem to have any effect on this bzp/mdma reaction.

My history is high intake, yours is quite low. I am relatively old you are relatively young.

But it has still had an awful devistating effect on both of us.

Seems the CYP2D6 enzyme plays a big role in this allergic reaction.

Thizzin did you take any MDMA /E prior to taking this rolex that fucked you up? Were you taking or had taken any type of medication or supps prior to injesting this pill? Like any medication if so what?

Had you been drinking or anything like this?


From what we can make out the BZP/MDMA combo some how upsets the CYP2D6 enzyme. This has a dramatic effect on the metabolism (breaking down) of drugs in your system. This then leads to prolonged exposure to the drugs and some kind of intoxication results.

The effects seem to indicate some kind of neurotoxity but what we are trying to figure out is if some kind of aftermath is left. Has the CYP2D6 enzyme been crippled in some way? Is there some kind of toxic metabolite still in our system?

if you can pin point the exact cause then theoretically there might be some type of cure. A drug that could reverse the process.

Alternatively it might be a case the BZP MDMA drug drug interaction momentarily weakens your CYP2D6 enzymes and the brain just gets damaged. if this is the case there is no cure. Only a long and slow mental recovery.

It just seems weird to me. I had 18 years of drug abuse never experienced anything like this then all of a sudden BZP comes along and BAM this awful reaction.

Some how I sense there might be something thats got locked up in our system. Something that if you can figure it out would hold the key to a cure.

I live in hope.


Just so you know thizzin both myself and Cope are currently experimenting with the antidepressant Mirtazapine (Remeron, Avanza, Zispin)

I have just had day one of this drug. I will keep you posted.
 
Piperazine/small amount of MDMA mix, anxiety, palpitations etc etc, lasted a good month, was about to go to doctors to get myself checked out before meeting my girlfriend after a while apart and managed to help me convince myself the symptoms were just mental effects and I was duly cured

Got lucky i'm guessing
 
hi digitalpgs,

thank you for your input.

can you tell us, how much and often you took mdma before this happened ?

thank you in advance !
 
My first roll I dropped one suspected pipe (got told after and had no knowledge at this point of the topic), then had a few mdma+meth based rolls. I had the only and worst comedown ive ever experienced that wiped me out for a week and a half. Who knows what would have happened if I had more pips most likely a much worse and longer depression.

I never have comedowns now regardless of frequency of use or how hard i roll and have since never consumed a pipe.
 
Toxic effects of BZP-based herbal party pills in humans: a
prospective study in Christchurch, New Zealand


http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/118-1227/1784/content.pdf

Here are some very relevant quotes proving the findings all support one another.


The cytochrome P450 enzyme system
CYP2D6 appears to be a central component in the degradation of BZP. This enzyme
is known for its genetic polymorphism, which may explain the erratic distribution of
adverse toxic effects, especially when coadministered with other drugs such as
MDMA.12 Another enzyme involved in the breakdown of BZP is catechol-O-methyltransferase
(COMT), which is also known to express genetically determined
variations of activity. No information is available on interactions with other
prescribed or recreational drugs, effects on carrier protein binding, or toxicity of
metabolites. Additive effects are likely but more research is required in the area.
 
This has taken me a few hours of digging around but please find below a very comprehensive list of PDF links that are relevant to the Piperazine MDMA discussions:

As I trawl through this lot I will post any relevant sections I can find to assist us with this research.


Metabolism of Designer Drugs of Abuse
http://toxicology.usu.edu/endnote/17169132.pdf

Dissociative and Sympathomimetic Toxicity Associated with Recreational Use of 1-(3-Trifluoromethylphenyl)
Piperazine (TFMPP) and 1-Benzylpiperzine (BZP)
http://jmt.pennpress.org/strands/jm...E86C?issue=20080404&file=20080404_254_257.pdf

Chemistry, Pharmacology, Toxicology, and Hepatic Metabolism of Designer Drugs of the Amphetamine (Ecstasy), Piperazine, and Pyrrolidinophenone Types
https://lists.catbull.com/alamut/Bibliothek/external1.

A2 (N-Benzylpiperazine) a New Drug of Abuse in Sweden
http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/28/1/67.full.pdf+html

Methodological problems with ecstasy and the SCL-90
http://www.liv.ac.uk/scieng/psychology/staff/JCole/SCL_90.pdf

Investigation of the First Deaths in the United Kingdom Involving the Detection and Quantitation of the Piperazines BZP and 3-TFMPP
http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/32/2/172.full.pdf

Are there sex differences associated with the effects of ecstasy/3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)?
http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?A=ShowDocPartFrame&C=ref&ID=7164&DocPartID=6490

Metabolism and the Urinary Excretion Profile of the Recently Scheduled Designer Drug N-Benzylpiperazine (BZP) in the Rat
http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/30/1/38.full.pdf

Toxic effects of BZP-based herbal party pills in humans: a prospective study in Christchurch, New Zealand
http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/118-1227/1784/content.pdf

Nephrotoxicity of BZP-based herbal party pills: a New Zealand case report
http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/119-1233/1959/content.pdf

Party on? BZP party pills in New Zealand
http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/120-1249/2422/content.pdf

Benzylpiperizine-based party pills’ impact on the Auckland City Hospital Emergency Department Overdose Database
(2002–2004) compared with ecstasy (MDMA or methylene dioxymethamphetamine), gamma hydroxybutyrate (GHB),
amphetamines, cocaine, and alcohol
http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/120-1249/2416/content.pdf

Partying on? Life after BZP-based party pills
http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/121-1283/3289/content.pdf

Party pills and drug-drug interactions
http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/122-1293/3564/content.pdf

In vivo interactions between BZP and TFMPP (party pill drugs)
http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/122-1303/3794/content.pdf

‘Party pill’ drugs—BZP and TFMPP
http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/122-1307/3906/content.pdf

Another bitter pill: a case of toxicity from DMAA party pills
http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/123-1327/4480/content.pdf

A Review on Benzylpiperazine and Trifluoromethylphenypiperazine: Origins, Effects, Prevalence and Legal Status
http://www.hej.kk.usm.my/pdf/HEJVol.1No.2/Article06.pdf

Drug Foundation summary of recent research on ‘party pills’ containing BZP
http://www.drugfoundation.org.nz/si...of research on party pills containing BZP.pdf

New designer drug 1-(3-trifluoromethylphenyl) piperazine (TFMPP): gas chromatography/mass
spectrometry and liquid chromatography/mass spectrometry studies on its phase I and II metabolism
and on its toxicological detection in rat urine†
http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?A=ShowDocPartFrame&ID=6881&DocPartID=6291
 
cope said:
hi digitalpgs,

thank you for your input.

can you tell us, how much and often you took mdma before this happened ?

thank you in advance !
Click to expand...
Had a year break before the incident and two previous times getting wired in the month before the incident, took 2/3 pill BZP/Misc Piperazine. Two pills I'm 99% sure were PMA or a derivative and a dab or two of verified Mandy.

I was a shell of a human being for the 12 hours following comedown, after that the anxiety and related symptoms as well as paranoia and whatnot continued for a month before I managed to subside the symptoms. After the symptoms subsided they never reemerged :)
 
hello digital

cheers for your message

what was your E history in total? also how old are you?

Just to confirm you had a year break.

Then had two E sessions before your BZP incident correct?

sorry for all the questions were just trying to piece as much together as we can about anyone who gets affected by this BZP combo.

Your clearly one of the unfortunate few who is allergic to piperazine.

I am sure you know but make sure you test everything as speaking from experience the second piperazine comedown is a lot worse.

You need to avoid pipes at all costs.

Thanks for your input by the way much appreciated.
 
I don't think I've been unfortunate enough to take MDMA with piperazine in it but I have taken 2CB with piperazine in it and it was AWFUL. So, so, so awful. I couldn't regulate my body temperature, it made me tired, gave me a horrible headache, made me irritable and I couldn't sleep properly for days. I really wish there was a reliable test for piperazine. :eek:/
 
Hello Flailing Gypsy

Thanks for your input. Adding this combination with 2CB helps because we can see if 2CB also has the same drug>drug interactions with BZP. Or at least similiar.

Possibley something about 2CB and MDMA have something about them that combine badly with BZP. It needs more reading and research.

Also I am currently researching links between MDMA / BZP and the HPA Axis function.

I read this on a site recently:

" Normal ecstasy use increases cortisol by 150%. In a rave setting, because of the excess dancing, and lack of proper hydration cortisol will many times increase up to 800%. That's VERY taxing on the body.Your body releases cortisol in response to a stressor to keep the body in homeostasis. But sometimes the body down regulates in a defense to actually hep the body cope. What happens is your body gets stuck in this weird state.

If you or anyone you know feels kind of emotionless or very lazy and unmotivated the next day, it's from an hpa axis (hypothalmus pituitary adrenal axis) dysfunction. For most people, this is just a normal lethargic depressed feeling and it usually goes away within a few days. But I have seen many people who this imbalance doesn't clear up so easy and they start thinking there's something wrong with their brain when it's just the body goes into a state of hypofunction. The hpa axis is your body's natural homeostatic balancer. It keeps the in a normal state of function. If this is thrown off all other aspects of your body become affected, IE immune response, metabolism. This can cause serious side effects. "


Wondering if BZP some how makes the disruption to the HPA Axis worse. Causing the body to get 'locked' in this imbalance.

Could this explain why BZP can cause these horrible long term come downs for people?

Please if anyone else has had any kind of horrible long term come down with BZP please let us know about it.

Many thanks to everyone for helping with this research.
 
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