Kratom Addiction/ Need Help After Withdrawals Are Over

[Fresco]

it's midnight here. rls. no sleeping for me either.

If you can locate them in your area, try to find:

Melatonin 5mg
Doxylamine 25mg

Take those 2 and you'll sleep better

 

[podsnomo]

thanks fresco I will. I've taken melatonin before but don't know what doxylamine is. I'll look it up. Oh, it's in unisom. I have Diphenhydramine. Which is benadryl. I'll get some melatonin, but not sure about unisom. I take the benadryl during the day to lessen the eyes watering, sneezes and to hopefully calm me a bit, since it's the same thing as a sleep aid. I actually bought the one marked as a sleep aid, but it's the exact same ingredient as benadryl. I am prescribed 1.5mg of klonopin/day for anxiety and 10 mg ambien each night for sleep. But I've been on those forever, so they helped while I was using, but now that I'm not they don't seem to do much at all, at least while I'm withdrawing/detoxing. Yesterday instead of taking my clonazapam at 3 regular intervals, I took one in the a.m. and held off on the other two to take with my ambien, hoping that would knock me out. It didn't. I know I can't make a habit out of this, but when the klonipin/ambien combo did zilch for sleep, I got a pint of vodka and drank the whole damn thing. Now that knocked me out. I'm mildly hungover, but must still have a pretty heavy tolerance even though it had been a pretty long time since I'd last drank. Anyway, even with the mild headache right now, I feel a million times better for having slept. Two nights in a row of rls and near zero sleep might have sent me over the edge. I won't be drinking tonight though, and if I have another night of no sleep, then I do. One I can take. Two in a row and I'll need to find a solution.

I'm going to get melatonin though. Fresco, do you mention those two because they work better in combo?

Thanks,
pnm

 

[THCified]

May i ask what opioids you've consumed along with Kratom and for how long?

 

[podsnomo]

I was eating poppy pods and steadily increasing how much I ate for about 3 years. I switched to the kratom when I got down to 1g of pod grounds per day, about 2 days before I ate my last pods. Now I'm on day 3 of no kratom. Last night I had to put a pint of vodka in me to get to sleep. I actually feel better today. But I won't be drinking anymore. I think the worst may be over now. I'm still taking loperamide.

Not sure that answers your question. Aside from some hydro once or twice, I only took kratom by itself and only for relief from withdrawals to feel more normal and have energy. Now I'm pretty beat down physically but psychologically I am getting better and spiritually I'm using all the resources I have.

 

[Fresco]

I'm going to get melatonin though. Fresco, do you mention those two because they work better in combo?

Thanks,
pnm

Yes. most definitely.

Dont take the ambien with those 2 though, that might be a bit much. If 5mg melatonin doesnt work you can take 10mg.

And I made a mistake, it should be 25mg doxylamine succinate, not 15mg

 

[podsnomo]

Yes. most definitely.

Dont take the ambien with those 2 though, that might be a bit much. If 5mg melatonin doesnt work you can take 10mg.

And I made a mistake, it should be 25mg doxylamine succinate, not 15mg

It took 1mg klonopin, 10mg ambien, and a pint of 100 proof vodka to put me down last night. Hopefully tonight I can just add melatonin to the klonopin and amien to get rest. If not, I'll just have another sleepless night and try the dox suc the following night. Thanks for the advice. I'm feeling a bit better today. Even gonna have dinner, or try to, with my gf tonight. We'll see how that goes.

 

[THCified]

Pods, then you've taken far more, for a even longer time than me -putting aside that you also ingested poppy pods; me just the things mentioned above, poppy pods 2x in total- so it's no wonder your wd is much stronger than mine's.

Feel better with every day, and i think the "worst" (it really wasn't that bad at all) is over. Slept nice and well as usual, woke up a bit more often but that's all

 

[podsnomo]

Well, thc, the worst is over for me too. In retrospect it doesn't seem that bad. But a couple of nights, sleepy as ehll, but unable to sleep, and just dying for something to knock me out with nothing around that would (except my klonopin script which I can't afford to run out of early) was some serious psychological torture. I remember feeling like I was going over the edge. Didn't get suicidal though. I took 10mg of melatonin last night along with some valerian root. To my surprise, I got sleepy! I couldn't believe it. I took my ambien like normal just to ensure a good night's rest and bam! I woke up rested, and I'm FREE from illicit shit. Now the only thing I'm on is my script for sleep and my small script for anxiety. The good thing about those is it's not me calling the shots on them. I can't just take it anytime I want. It's up to my doctor, and when I see him next, I'm going to ask about tapering off of that shit too. But for now, the big deal for me is, I can look the world dead in the eye for the first time in a LONG time. I have had something to hide, drinking/pods/kratom for a long effing time. Now I'm not hiding anything from anyone and it feels like a million pounds just lifted off of me.

I have been trying to get free of pods and/or kratom for over 6 months now. And I'm fucking FREE! Makes me wanna dance. Oh yeah!

 

[Fresco]

^^^^ I told you melatonin would knock you out

 

[podsnomo]

You did. Thanks for that. I got the 10mg, taking no chances on another restless night.

 

[stardust.hero]

I also really love chamomile tea at night. It's not something strong that will knock you out but using it in combination right before bed it has a calming aroma and taste. It will help soften the edges.

 

[Fresco]

You did. Thanks for that. I got the 10mg, taking no chances on another restless night

And if you wake up in middle of the night you can take another 5 or 10mg melatonin.

If you really wanna sleep well try to score some doxylamine over the internet or drug store. Combined with melatonin it works wonderfully. Ebay sells that shit very cheap in family size packages

 

[THCified]

Nice to hear that you're fine, Pods

Me too btw. Today i couldn't resist (no urge, just appetite ) and allowed myself a tiny dose of Thai Kratom (3g), and it feels so nice. Seems like my tolerance has dropped a fair bit, much more than i thought.

But i'll stay with that one dose for today (as also the rest of the week).

 

[Fresco]

@ podsnomo

How would you rank kratom withdrawal on a scale of 1 to 10??

And lets assume heroin and methadone are 10/10

 

[podsnomo]

@ podsnomo

How would you rank kratom withdrawal on a scale of 1 to 10??

And lets assume heroin and methadone are 10/10

I wish I could answer that confidently. I know I've heard of H WDs as being curled up on the floor with stuff squirting out both ends in complete misery and agony. I think these people should go to hospital. If that's a 10 then the kratom (physically) was a 2-3. Mentally/psychologically though there were a few rough hours at night mostly during the first 2 nights that ranked up there around a 9, being close to some of the worst psychological torture I've known, and believe me, I've known some.

Maybe I should describe my CT attempt with pods, my taper success with pods, and my CT quit from kratom to give you an idea of my experience.

When I tried to CT pods I was completely miserable, but not like what I said I'd heard of before. I had bad chills, soaking sweats alternating with freezing, burning/watering eyes, sneezes, runny nose, shits, stomach cramps, anxiety BAD, muscle spasms, depression, body hurt everywhere, no appetite, general psychological distress, insomnia, RLS, and that combination was a total mindfuck. I made it 5 days like this before I caved and started eating poppy pods again.

Later, When I tapered pods I had minor to moderate versions of all of the above at different times in different combinations with differing levels of severity, but nothing close to the CT quit. If my pods CT attempt was a 10 for me, my taper was 6-7 weeks of mostly a 2, sometimes jumping up briefly to a 4. I treated those symptoms during the taper with OTC things: loperamide, beneadryl, etc.

Then at the end of the taper I was done with feeling like total shit and thought kratom was a good out. I read what I wanted to read: that kratom was no big deal, sorta like caffeine, that it was soooo easy to quit, etc. Well, that wasn't true. And while I was on it I was obsessed with getting off it. But I couldn't. I'd get about 20-24 hours away from my last dose and be wracked with anxiety while feeling lethargic (fucking bizarre), sweating, chills, and couldn't face work or something else I needed to do, so I'd dose again. The way the kratom WDs started were the same as the way the the pods WDs started, so I feared the worst.

But I got fed up with it, flushed my remaining kratom and settled in for what may come. If my CT pods quit was my personal 10, then this was mostly a 5 with a couple brief jumps to to an 8. The first 2 days without were the worst of it, whereas pods WDs were still seeming to get worse on day 5. On day 3 it started to get better. The nights following the first and second full days of being off kratom had me putting down about a pint of 100 proof vodka to get knocked out. And that was on top of 1mg klonopin and 10 mg ambien. After that though, a 10mg melatonin and a 10mg ambien get me solid rest. It's day 6 kratom-free now and I have occasional mild chills, a little heightened anxiety at intervals through the day, but that's about it. I'm taking 10mg loperamide once a day (and sometimes4-6mg later in the day) and that's keeping my guts regular. I'll be taking 2mg fewer tomorrow and will wean off of those according to how my stomach reacts. I think the loperamide was a huge help, but I didn't take huge amounts as I have read others report, but I think they had much larger habits than mine, like big H or hydro or oxy habits.

So, wow, this was a long answer to short question. Short answer: having not gone through H or m-done WDs (but having read about it) and calling those a 10, I'd say kratom was a 1.2. It really is a walk in the park compared to what many opiate addicts go through, but getting down to that level was the long challenge. In the midst of my kratom WDs I might have called it an 8 though, because the psychological part really had me kind of crazy. But if one soldiers through, at least IME, one finds that kratom WDs are quite doable.

If you're wanting to get free and clean from kratom, or anyone reading this is, I recommend getting some loperamide, some benadryl, and some easy nutrition. I had no appetite for two and a half days. I made shakes to get nourishment. I'm convinced this was a life saver. I could not have gotten this quality of nutrition if I'd tried to eat regular food. My recipe: 1 banana, 2 scoops vanilla ice cream, a cup or so of soy milk, one bottle of Boost or Ensure+ (they're small), and 3 scoops of a nutritionally enhanced protein powder. This gave me calories and the Boost and protein powder are packed with vitamins, and most importantly, protein. I took a good daily vitamin too once a day. I made a shake 2 or 3 times a day to keep my strength. It worked.

Long reply I know, but I am so fucking happy to free and clean, to be able to look the world dead in the eye, to have nothing to hide. My mental faculties have improved dramatically. I am happier and more at peace with the world. I think more clearly. My emotions have stabilized. Instead of waking up craving and weighing out a dose of kratom, I wake up and look forward to a day of sobriety, free and clear. The mild anxiety and other very minor symptoms will continue to fade, but I don't mind them for now. All in all, this has been a small price to pay for my freedom. I was slave to the devil poppy plant, and then to the slightly lesser evil kratom leaf. I walk free now. And I feel I stand good foot taller.

For over 2 decades I never went longer than a few days without putting something in me, and that was never by choice. I always had the mental obsession to get back to using or drinking. My mental obsession to stay altered by some chemical or drug or drink is gone, and that, my friends, is thanks to my program in AA.

I'm ____. I'm an alcoholic and addict. I'm sober 6 days. I like it here. I'm staying.

 

[THCified]

My mental faculties have improved dramatically. I am happier and more at peace with the world. I think more clearly. My emotions have stabilized

And that is why i'm failing...why i failed...

Had such a shitty day at work, stressful, a shitload to do, rain was pouring down like it's the end of the world...and guess what? All i wanted was to calm myself down with something, i wasn't even craving for an Opioid, i was craving for anything that changes my mind.

Took another dose of kratom today, also some tilidine, but it's almost not working. I feel it in my head, it's heavy, but i'm not getting calm, i feel no peace of mind...

Seems like tomorrows working day won't be possible without something...i know it's no good, but i'm trapped!

 

[podsnomo]

And that is why i'm failing...why i failed...

Had such a shitty day at work, stressful, a shitload to do, rain was pouring down like it's the end of the world...and guess what? All i wanted was to calm myself down with something, i wasn't even craving for an Opioid, i was craving for anything that changes my mind.

Took another dose of kratom today, also some tilidine, but it's almost not working. I feel it in my head, it's heavy, but i'm not getting calm, i feel no peace of mind...

Seems like tomorrows working day won't be possible without something...i know it's no good, but i'm trapped!

Have you considered a program like AA? It's all that's kept me going. A couple years ago if you'd have asked me if I would, in 2012, be believing in some sort of higher power that I now actually call god, I might have popped you in the jaw. Now I am trying to live a spiritual (NOT religious) life. I have a bunch of friends who are happily sober, and I'm working the 12 steps. For years I thought AA and 12 step programs were for those gutter drunks who nearly go into seizures waiting for the liquor store to open. Now I know what being an alcoholic/addict is. It means that of myself, on my own power, I cannot stay sober. I am powerless because of the way I feel when I'm not drinking or using. And the ONLY thing I have found, and I tried everything else I could think of, is a spiritual life, a plan of action through the 12 steps, and a fellowship with men and women who know what it's like to be me. At least, they know about the part that kept me from being me. When I got to AA I hated them all and didn't trust a damn one of them. Now I love them all and am so grateful. Even at the beginning though, when I hated them, something in me perked up and said, "they know". They knew man. They knew. When things were bad and other people would say I should quit or whatever, I'd think, "Yeah I know. I KNOW! I know this looks bad." And if I could have realized what I was really feeling I'd have said, "but if you knew how I felt when I wasn't drinking, when I wasn't using, you wouldn't ask me why I keep doing it." These people knew that. It's a fellowship of people who know precisely why you're not succeeding.

And I'm not saying you need it. I'm certainly not calling you a loser. Trust me, I'd be the last one on earth to judge you my friend. I'm just saying, if you get to the point where you can't drink/use successfully and you can't not drink/use successfully, then there is a solution. And it doesn't just sober you up. Stopping using is just te price of admission. The plan of action that follows will (would) change your life in ways you cannot begin to imagine. There's no damn point in being sober and miserable. The steps, the fellowship, and the resulting new way of life make being sober a whole new world. I have been/am being rocketed into a fourth dimension of existence I had NO IDEA existed. And I'm sober. Big deal. But I'm sober AND happy. Very happy. And that, my friend, is one big fucking deal to this alcoholic/addict.

I promise: the trap is an illusion. The solution exists. "If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it-then you are ready to take certain steps." AA Big Book pg. 58.

Love to all,
pnm

 

[ribs76]

How many ways can I say thank you? I have read this thread twice before. Once when I thought about quitting kratom, and once when I first tried. That first attempt lasted about a day. It sucked. It mentally just beat me.

But here I am with over 48 hours clean from Kratom (I know it's still short but I gotta celebrate a little). I was using a lot, every day. It just crept up on me. Then when I tried to quit and the withdrawals hit, man did that scare me. But I went back. But I have found a new energy, and this is the longest Ive gone without it in over 8 months. The withdrawals suck, but are already getting better. And there is some hope, positivity, and excitement in me now! I believe I can do it, and that is huge.

I don't think any of this would have happened without this thread and especially without you pods. Your posts are words I've turned to many times to lift me up. It's so embarrassing to be alone with this and try to change, but this thread has done wonders. Thank you all so much.

I know I am still at the beginning, but I feel that surge of happiness from freedom growing, and I'm not trying to quiet it. I'll keep you posted. Gotta stay strong. Thanks to all for making me feel a lot less alone.
Ribs

 

[THCified]

Hi pods, thanks a lot for your kind reply. I was expecting something more harsh tbh but i'm happy to hear such positive and helpful words. Perhaps i should tell some more of my background, or at least, how i run into opiates when i'm already claiming this thread.

It was more or less accidently that i read about kratom, tbh i never wasted thoughts about opiates, because when i heard of them i thought of blazed chinese people drowsing in a cavern , but i read kratom should be good.

So i thought i'll give it a go. Got me some Maeng da, gathered informations about dosage and ate 5gs the very day i got it...

It was late in the evening and i was soooo blazed, i couldn't watch tv anymore, i could do nothing, i just couldn't handle this awkward feeling. Went to bed, but it didn't stop, no, i was awake the whole night (needless to say i nodded, but hey, i didn't even knew what nodding is!). Next day (especially at work) was hellish, it was a nightmare and i was a complete mess, depressive as hell. Bad Day!

In retrospect was it like my first cigarette. I hated it. But i came back.

Flash forward - besides the fact that i've found something interesting about this strange kratom-stuff and experienced the difference between good and not-so-good mitragyna speciosa, i never found it that good.

Ok, but not my DOC so far. So i took it very rarely, which sometimes left me dysphoric and irritable, and, if the dose was right, pleasingly energetic and strangely content, especially at work, where i was super-productive, even though hardly sociable.

And contrary to what most people say, that with it, they came past their opiate addiction, Methoxetamine triggered something. I clearly remember dosing some Thai Kratom the day after i'd done a bit of MXE. It was one of these typcial not-so-nice days, grey and rainy, even had the flu, felt sick and were overly stressed by work.

So Kratom came into my mind.

3gs i did.

It was like if i fell in cotton. I firstly almost forgot about the dose i recently took - and then it hit me. A warm euphoric glow, deep inside my soul.

It was simply magical. It didn't last long, but it was so true.

Candid.

Needless to say i felt much better then.

But strangely enough i've found the effects of kratom, or in fact, opioids in general, changed from then on...

Not to an extent that was earth-shattering, but i've the feeling of it having more depth, it felt warmer.

This happened roughly 6-7 months ago.

I really like the effects opioids are giving me nowadays, i'm not that irritable anymore and am really calm and content. Great for me because i'm sometimes overly emotional and unresting.

But before making this a neverending story now, i thank you and really appreciate your recommendations and keep them in mind, but i know there's nothing to be feared of.

I won't let it all go overboard, i've a loving family and friends around and i don't wanna waste me. I don't only not want to disappoint them, but also me. I tend to the extremes, i know, but i've always found my way into the right direction, so, i'll let this be my last words as a positive source for my will to not get addicted, to whatever drug there is, or may come.

 

[Beat It]

Hey Pods, can't tell you how proud I am to hear that you made it through to the other side! Hope your still doing well, if not, you can always tell us. I hope you stick around.

You are 100 percent right that the physical part is the easy part. The mental part is by far more agonizing. While I fucked up and started using again, coming back and seeing this thread has made me want to quit again. This thread is what made me get through it the first time and I'm thinking of taking your advice and going to AA. I feel like with both I could stay sober. What I can respect about Kratom is it helped make my life far more manageable than it was 2 years ago before I started using it. However, I'm still not clear minded while using and I am still a slave to the plant.

Another thing your 100 percent right about, is that when your off it, you can look the world straight in the eyes. I felt so much healthier when I was off of the stuff. My memory was improved, I didn't suffer from any mood swings, and my mental faculties where definitely sharper. I might have been a little bit more anxious and wound up all the time but like you said, that's a small price to pay for being free. Looking back, quitting was definitely a negative experience, but it made me stronger going through it. I am thankful that I was able to do it. Getting back on the stuff was a terrible decision but I'm not too upset about it. I'm not going to let it get me down, I'm an addict. On some level, I couldn't help it.