ScreamPhoenix
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Do you take the same amount you normally take, etc?
Kratom Addiction/ Need Help After Withdrawals Are Over
- Thread starter Beat It
- Start date
Yup, 3 grams every few hours or so. Whenever you feel WD coming on.
Stem powder is the bottom of the kratom plant and doesnt get you high at all. I really believe mother nature put it there so we can get off the kratom habit
I just wanted to join this forum after reading all the greats posts in this thread and especially the ones from "pods no more". I'm trying to quit a very mild kratom habit (3 grams a day of maeng da for about a month straight) and here I am on day two experiencing some mild withdrawal (most psychological) symptoms like obsessing over not having it, a general feeling of restlessness, things like that.
As the wise man on the Wire says to the H addict Bubbles: "getting cleans the easy part, it's life that's hard".
And life is hard. Like most I use drugs to try and escape the daily grind. I'm a small business owner and although I'd hardly call myself an extrovert I'm forced to interact with dozens of customers every day for my business. Kratom made those interactions so much easier. My jokes were funnier, my sales pitches were better, things like that. I found myself actually looking forward to them on occasion.
That's the power of Kratom not that it's a great recreational high but it just makes dealing with daily life much easier. It's a crutch though and like pods no more points out it's an excuse to feel good when you aren't taking care of yourself. I've always been an active person but on Kratom I could get the "runner's buzz" (or weighlifter's buzz) without actually doing all that hard work. So in the last month or so I've stopped being so active, gained a few pounds and all the time felt like a million bucks 'cause of the Kratom.
I don't pretend to be a hardcore addict. I have a mild drinking habit. I smoke the occasional bowl of pot. But Kratom helped me deal with life in ways those drugs couldn't. I don't have any desire to be booze boozed or stoned at work, but Kratom goes so damn well with productivity. It really does.
Anyways, I was feeling mildly depressed before I found this thread and after reading it I'm more determined than ever to give up the Kratom and start treating myself well again. Thanks to everyone that contributes here.
As the wise man on the Wire says to the H addict Bubbles: "getting cleans the easy part, it's life that's hard".
And life is hard. Like most I use drugs to try and escape the daily grind. I'm a small business owner and although I'd hardly call myself an extrovert I'm forced to interact with dozens of customers every day for my business. Kratom made those interactions so much easier. My jokes were funnier, my sales pitches were better, things like that. I found myself actually looking forward to them on occasion.
That's the power of Kratom not that it's a great recreational high but it just makes dealing with daily life much easier. It's a crutch though and like pods no more points out it's an excuse to feel good when you aren't taking care of yourself. I've always been an active person but on Kratom I could get the "runner's buzz" (or weighlifter's buzz) without actually doing all that hard work. So in the last month or so I've stopped being so active, gained a few pounds and all the time felt like a million bucks 'cause of the Kratom.
I don't pretend to be a hardcore addict. I have a mild drinking habit. I smoke the occasional bowl of pot. But Kratom helped me deal with life in ways those drugs couldn't. I don't have any desire to be booze boozed or stoned at work, but Kratom goes so damn well with productivity. It really does.
Anyways, I was feeling mildly depressed before I found this thread and after reading it I'm more determined than ever to give up the Kratom and start treating myself well again. Thanks to everyone that contributes here.
ScreamPhoenix
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That's really awesome Protoss!! Are you feeling better today? This thread really is great.
Don't worry about having a mild habit- a habit is a habit.
When I stop taking kratom I get the physical withdrawals just like "regular" opiates. But the hardest part for me is the mental withdrawal.
Also, it's not something we can discuss with everyone. I admitted to all of my friends and family when I went to detox for painkillers. They had no idea I was on anything. Well, they knew I took painkillers for all of my surgeries, but just didn't know I didn't stop taking them when the pain went away. I feel ashamed to say, "I am addicted to kratom," because 98% of people will say, "What's that?" So that leads us to a message board, where we try to get help.
Let me know how you're feeling. Oh, and I totally get taking kratom for social situations. Vicodins made me want to pick up the phone and call friends and make plans. Without them, I just kind of wanted to hide out.
Don't worry about having a mild habit- a habit is a habit.
When I stop taking kratom I get the physical withdrawals just like "regular" opiates. But the hardest part for me is the mental withdrawal.
Also, it's not something we can discuss with everyone. I admitted to all of my friends and family when I went to detox for painkillers. They had no idea I was on anything. Well, they knew I took painkillers for all of my surgeries, but just didn't know I didn't stop taking them when the pain went away. I feel ashamed to say, "I am addicted to kratom," because 98% of people will say, "What's that?" So that leads us to a message board, where we try to get help.
Let me know how you're feeling. Oh, and I totally get taking kratom for social situations. Vicodins made me want to pick up the phone and call friends and make plans. Without them, I just kind of wanted to hide out.
ScreamPhoenix
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I kinda feel like I'm talking to myself here, but ah well.
I am trying to bring kratom useage down to acceptable level, then taper. I usually take 12-14 pills per day (12-14 grams). So in the morning I take 6 pills instead of 2 when I first wake up, then 2 here and there. The plan is to then take 6 later in the day. Then bring it down.. 5 and 5, 4 and 4, etc. Problem is the 6 make me feel all high and not wanting to get stuff done. Then my early afternoon I feel like I'm in withdrawal, but don't want to take the whole batch so early, so I mess up the plan and take 1-2 here and there until I've gone over my limit. It's a mess. I'm down to 99 pills, so creating a taper plan is challenging, since it's not as slow as I'd like. Right now, I should be done in 19 days.
Also, I ran out of kratom much sooner than anticipated, and had to go to the kava bar and get 15X kratom. That didnt help matters, I feel it brought my tolerance up.
I can't wait to be off this crap. Like other posters said, I don't want to be a slave to a plant. I'm not demonizing it. I don't think it should be illegal. Some people can handle it, some can't. You give me any substance that makes me feel like my life is bearable and I want to take it every day. But eventually, it makes my life unbearable on them. Only other addicts will understand this.
I am trying to bring kratom useage down to acceptable level, then taper. I usually take 12-14 pills per day (12-14 grams). So in the morning I take 6 pills instead of 2 when I first wake up, then 2 here and there. The plan is to then take 6 later in the day. Then bring it down.. 5 and 5, 4 and 4, etc. Problem is the 6 make me feel all high and not wanting to get stuff done. Then my early afternoon I feel like I'm in withdrawal, but don't want to take the whole batch so early, so I mess up the plan and take 1-2 here and there until I've gone over my limit. It's a mess. I'm down to 99 pills, so creating a taper plan is challenging, since it's not as slow as I'd like. Right now, I should be done in 19 days.
Also, I ran out of kratom much sooner than anticipated, and had to go to the kava bar and get 15X kratom. That didnt help matters, I feel it brought my tolerance up.
I can't wait to be off this crap. Like other posters said, I don't want to be a slave to a plant. I'm not demonizing it. I don't think it should be illegal. Some people can handle it, some can't. You give me any substance that makes me feel like my life is bearable and I want to take it every day. But eventually, it makes my life unbearable on them. Only other addicts will understand this.
@ ScreamPhoenix
Just try to stay positive. Everything will work itself out in the end. Just because you got into an opiate habit because of surgeries doesnt make you a bad person.
And when you add it all up, I much rather have a kratom habit then a vicodin or oxycontin habit. But thats just me
Just try to stay positive. Everything will work itself out in the end. Just because you got into an opiate habit because of surgeries doesnt make you a bad person.
And when you add it all up, I much rather have a kratom habit then a vicodin or oxycontin habit. But thats just me
silentcowboy
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Yeah kratom can get a hold of you, but not like real opiates IMO. Id rather have a kratom habit then anything else (nicotine, alcohol, opiate ect) for many reasons. I agree that some people can handle it and some cant. Kratom does amazing things for the people that can keep in control 
After 2+ years its still working its wonders
After 2+ years its still working its wondersAnd correct me if I'm wrong, but you are the guy who cuts his kratom doses in half to beat tolerance, amiright??Yeah kratom can get a hold of you, but not like real opiates IMO. Id rather have a kratom habit then anything else (nicotine, alcohol, opiate ect) for many reasons. I agree that some people can handle it and some cant. Kratom does amazing things for the people that can keep in control
silentcowboy
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Yeah, I try to when I have free time, but for the last couple months Ive been working so much that I havent. Either way kratom works for me and many others
When you do cut your doses in half, how many days or weeks do you do that??
ScreamPhoenix
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For me, I just feel like I switched addictions, and that makes me feel guilty, considering kratom does the same thing to me as "real" painkillers. It actually feels worse for me, anxiety-wise, when I stop cold turkey.
I'm doing as slow a taper as possible, and even with going down 1 pill (gram) per day, I feel it. I have some 15X I take a teeny, teeny bit of it when it's unbearable and I'm sweating or whatever.
I'm doing as slow a taper as possible, and even with going down 1 pill (gram) per day, I feel it. I have some 15X I take a teeny, teeny bit of it when it's unbearable and I'm sweating or whatever.
podsnomo
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Hi and welcome Scream!
I know how you feel, wanting to be free. (I PMed you too)
And Fresco, god love ya, I know that stem and vein powder works wonderfully for you, but it's not the answer for all of us.
For me, I had to face my kick. And while it wasn't as bad physically as "real" opiates, it can be just as much of a psychologically distressing mind-fuck as an "real" opiate.
Scream, feeling guilty is part of beating yourself up. Be kind to yourself. You got hooked on something that makes life feel better, bearable, good. I personally often think that we addicts/alcoholics and so on are more "normal" than the earth-people, which is what I call people who have never had a problem with a substance. Speaking from experience, because I still do this a lot, if you compare your insides to other people's outsides, you're gonna lose every time. Eff them, or our perceptions of them.
Thing is, as an addict (and/or alky) our perceptions just get effed up. Even more than earth people. But really, we're all nuts on some level. What's the world made of? Dirt, water, and several billion people trying to figure out how to cope. There's nothing 'wrong' with getting a habit going. It's not like you woke up one day and said, "hey, think i'll fuck up my life with some substances today. whee!"
Rule 62, which is "don't take yourself so GD seriously" is good to follow, but sould be extended to: don't other people so GD seriously either.
What's at stake? No, really, let's not talk about the perimeter, like relationships and jobs. What's REALLY at stake? Our sanity, our peace of mind, our lives.
I've recently slipped back into kratom usage. FML! And I know I gotta quit again. It's gonna happen while my gf is out of country. Seems like I'm kicking one thing or another every time she goes on holiday alone.
Anyway, this time I'm not feeling guilty. Learned my lesson there. Does no one any good, least of all me. And I'm not going to expect certain earth people around me to "understand". I've got to walk the road in sobriety on my own, with the support of my AA brothers, not kowtowing to people who don't get what it is to have an addiction.
Listen, things are as they are. If we clean, things will be as they are. If we don't, things will be as they are. That's not a depressing message of hopelessness, it's a statement of fact. Direct truth, yo. Perspective.
Yes, quitting sucks, and I'm going to get to do it all over again. And yes, AMEN, to whoever quoted someone else from the Wire about saying getting is clean is easy, it's life that's hard. TRUTH.
On a certain level, we must surrender to life. It'll suck, or it won't. It'll be great, or it won't. ANd it will be both those things and everything in between, clean or not.
There's this seed in us all though, that knows that life can be better, that life will be better without substances and the swings and all that. All drugs work great in the short term, and then quit doing what it was that we started taking them for once we're addicted. Damn.
On one hand, we could woe-is-me this whole position, or we could look at it as I am trying to see it now: that we get the amazing opportunity to learn how to live all over again.
I'm counting my slip or whatever we call it as part of my recovery process. Because I have NOT given up, and I have learned even more from this one. Long term sobriety is still in my future. I know it.
I've listened to a lot f AA/NA speakers. Nearly al of them say something like it having taken everything it took for them to get to where they are, which is long time sober and HAPPY with it.
I'm going into rolling thoughts now and my arms want to stop, so I should quit typing.
Main point: be kind to yourself, take some distance for perspective, and know that life isn't nearly as hard as we make it in our heads.
Love and peace to all,
pods no mo
I know how you feel, wanting to be free. (I PMed you too)
And Fresco, god love ya, I know that stem and vein powder works wonderfully for you, but it's not the answer for all of us.
For me, I had to face my kick. And while it wasn't as bad physically as "real" opiates, it can be just as much of a psychologically distressing mind-fuck as an "real" opiate.
Scream, feeling guilty is part of beating yourself up. Be kind to yourself. You got hooked on something that makes life feel better, bearable, good. I personally often think that we addicts/alcoholics and so on are more "normal" than the earth-people, which is what I call people who have never had a problem with a substance. Speaking from experience, because I still do this a lot, if you compare your insides to other people's outsides, you're gonna lose every time. Eff them, or our perceptions of them.
Thing is, as an addict (and/or alky) our perceptions just get effed up. Even more than earth people. But really, we're all nuts on some level. What's the world made of? Dirt, water, and several billion people trying to figure out how to cope. There's nothing 'wrong' with getting a habit going. It's not like you woke up one day and said, "hey, think i'll fuck up my life with some substances today. whee!"
Rule 62, which is "don't take yourself so GD seriously" is good to follow, but sould be extended to: don't other people so GD seriously either.
What's at stake? No, really, let's not talk about the perimeter, like relationships and jobs. What's REALLY at stake? Our sanity, our peace of mind, our lives.
I've recently slipped back into kratom usage. FML! And I know I gotta quit again. It's gonna happen while my gf is out of country. Seems like I'm kicking one thing or another every time she goes on holiday alone.
Anyway, this time I'm not feeling guilty. Learned my lesson there. Does no one any good, least of all me. And I'm not going to expect certain earth people around me to "understand". I've got to walk the road in sobriety on my own, with the support of my AA brothers, not kowtowing to people who don't get what it is to have an addiction.
Listen, things are as they are. If we clean, things will be as they are. If we don't, things will be as they are. That's not a depressing message of hopelessness, it's a statement of fact. Direct truth, yo. Perspective.
Yes, quitting sucks, and I'm going to get to do it all over again. And yes, AMEN, to whoever quoted someone else from the Wire about saying getting is clean is easy, it's life that's hard. TRUTH.
On a certain level, we must surrender to life. It'll suck, or it won't. It'll be great, or it won't. ANd it will be both those things and everything in between, clean or not.
There's this seed in us all though, that knows that life can be better, that life will be better without substances and the swings and all that. All drugs work great in the short term, and then quit doing what it was that we started taking them for once we're addicted. Damn.
On one hand, we could woe-is-me this whole position, or we could look at it as I am trying to see it now: that we get the amazing opportunity to learn how to live all over again.
I'm counting my slip or whatever we call it as part of my recovery process. Because I have NOT given up, and I have learned even more from this one. Long term sobriety is still in my future. I know it.
I've listened to a lot f AA/NA speakers. Nearly al of them say something like it having taken everything it took for them to get to where they are, which is long time sober and HAPPY with it.
I'm going into rolling thoughts now and my arms want to stop, so I should quit typing.
Main point: be kind to yourself, take some distance for perspective, and know that life isn't nearly as hard as we make it in our heads.
Love and peace to all,
pods no mo
ScreamPhoenix
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- Nov 22, 2012
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Pods, I lol'ed at your "earth people" comment. I am a master at beating myself up. I can thank my alcoholic dad for that But thanks for the response. How are you?
Fresco, I know this wasn't directed to me, but I personally have read about phenibut: Some users claim that phenibut is addictive and leads to withdrawal symptoms. Symptoms of phenibut withdrawal include sweaty hands, insomnia, reduced appetite and anxiety. According to Chemie.de, insomnia can be severe. When taking this product, reduce the dosage slowly over time to avoid withdrawal symptoms. So yeah, that probably wouldn't be any good for me, I'd just get addicted to it.As for GABA, I can't find any info on it, but opiates/opiods do affect GABA receptors, so it's possible. I'll have to do more research. I heard L-tyrosine was good for withdrawals and B-vitamins, but those make me all jittery, makes the anxiety worse.
Oh, and that was interesting what you said about w/d's hitting girls harder. I am a Psych major so that sort of thing def. interests me. It could be b/c females are more prone to depression (those pesky hormones) therefore stopping is harder. Also, (just in personal experience) it seems women are expected to do it all: work, take care of the household, look like a supermodel at all times (maybe just in South Florida), and never be sick or down. I have friends who won't even speak to me when I say I am sick, they seem to think it is some sort of moral failing or something.
So I survived finals, thank God. I was trying to stick to my taper schedule but it just wasn't working. Going down 2 pills per day made me feel as if I hadn't taken any kratom at all. Not good for trying to study and work. So now I am just trying to not take it, and when I feel withdrawals take a teeny amount. I've taken 8 pills today (usually by this time I've taken 12), and I waited a hella long time to take it instead of taking it first thing. I'm actually feeling kind of happy, I am excited to be done with this semester so I can clean my long-neglected apartment and spend some quality time with my ferrets, friends, and family.
That's what makes quitting so hard, especially around holiday time. I know I am going to be spending time with friends/family, and I don't want to explain why I am shivering/sweating, full of anxiety, stomach issues, exhausted, etc. I have plans tonight with my friends, plans with my mommy tomorrow, and possibly this music thing Friday night, then working Saturday and Sunday. I may be stopping kratom Monday, but then I have plans Weds, so.. who knows. I honestly wish I could just go to rehab (I know that probably sounds crazy to most), but I don't have insurance and money (I only work part-time and pay for my own apartment and all my bills on my own). We'll see..
But thanks for the response. How are you?Fresco, I know this wasn't directed to me, but I personally have read about phenibut: Some users claim that phenibut is addictive and leads to withdrawal symptoms. Symptoms of phenibut withdrawal include sweaty hands, insomnia, reduced appetite and anxiety. According to Chemie.de, insomnia can be severe. When taking this product, reduce the dosage slowly over time to avoid withdrawal symptoms. So yeah, that probably wouldn't be any good for me, I'd just get addicted to it.As for GABA, I can't find any info on it, but opiates/opiods do affect GABA receptors, so it's possible. I'll have to do more research. I heard L-tyrosine was good for withdrawals and B-vitamins, but those make me all jittery, makes the anxiety worse.
Oh, and that was interesting what you said about w/d's hitting girls harder. I am a Psych major so that sort of thing def. interests me. It could be b/c females are more prone to depression (those pesky hormones) therefore stopping is harder. Also, (just in personal experience) it seems women are expected to do it all: work, take care of the household, look like a supermodel at all times (maybe just in South Florida), and never be sick or down. I have friends who won't even speak to me when I say I am sick, they seem to think it is some sort of moral failing or something.
So I survived finals, thank God. I was trying to stick to my taper schedule but it just wasn't working. Going down 2 pills per day made me feel as if I hadn't taken any kratom at all. Not good for trying to study and work. So now I am just trying to not take it, and when I feel withdrawals take a teeny amount. I've taken 8 pills today (usually by this time I've taken 12), and I waited a hella long time to take it instead of taking it first thing. I'm actually feeling kind of happy, I am excited to be done with this semester so I can clean my long-neglected apartment and spend some quality time with my ferrets, friends, and family.
That's what makes quitting so hard, especially around holiday time. I know I am going to be spending time with friends/family, and I don't want to explain why I am shivering/sweating, full of anxiety, stomach issues, exhausted, etc. I have plans tonight with my friends, plans with my mommy tomorrow, and possibly this music thing Friday night, then working Saturday and Sunday. I may be stopping kratom Monday, but then I have plans Weds, so.. who knows. I honestly wish I could just go to rehab (I know that probably sounds crazy to most), but I don't have insurance and money (I only work part-time and pay for my own apartment and all my bills on my own). We'll see..
feelinblue
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- Dec 14, 2012
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- 14
Hey all,
Thank god for this thread, it provides the only helpful information on kratom withdrawal that I've been able to come by. Pnm, all of your posts have been very informative and supportive and I appreciate it. I was seriously starting to wonder if I'd messed myself up for good or something.
My roommate (I'm a college sophomore) was the first to introduce me to kratom in October of this year. He let me try 3g of Bali before a study session and of course I was in love. I went and ordered 100g of Bali and and ended up taking ~6g a day for about a month. One 3g dose in the afternoon and then one at night. Obviously, after a while the stuff seemed to "lose its magic". The need to quit hit me one night when I waited till right before bed to take my 3g dose of kratom and it didn't help me fall asleep, but made me irritable, so reluctantly I washed down 3 more grams and ended up not falling asleep till many hours later. So the next day I decided to go without and I felt pretty sick and a little blue the whole day, but it was manageable and I just stayed stoned most of the day. The next day I had a pretty bad headache and needed to get some work done so I popped an adderall and this seemed to make the w/d's subside, and by the time it was wearing off I just smoked more weed and fell asleep and it was fine. The next day was a Wednesday and the only w/d symptom I felt was slight but very manageable depression. Ended up just smoking before bed like the last few times and everything was fine. So, on Thursday (this is all during our finals week) I checked my grades and saw that I had failed a class, and I guess since I was a little depressed from the kratom w/d it made me feel absolutely terrible, so thinking maybe since the withdrawals were mostly over, I could take 3g of kratom and my tolerance would be down and everything would be perfect. Of course, it kicked in and I loved it but when I woke up the next day (Friday), I noticed I felt a little anxious, nothing too bad but a kind of stage fright feeling. All I had was a really easy final in my free elective so I was confused as to why I would be jittery about that.
As the day went on, however, I noticed that I was getting a little more panicky and uncomfortable. By nighttime I was living in complete torture. I paced around my living room having a panic attack every 15 minutes from 11 to about 5 a.m., couldn't even think about sleeping even though I was so tired. I eventually passed out for a couple of hours but woke up at like 8 having uncontrollable panic attacks, which lasted pretty much the entire day and of course I smoked a bunch of marijuana and it eventually knocked me out. The next day was exactly the same, I just felt panicky and horrible the whole day. It was the worst depression I'd ever had, it felt like I was alone and hopeless, I couldn't stop crying/having anxiety attacks. I was REALLY starting to worry at this point that I was gonna be stuck this way because I hadn't been taking that much kratom in the first place. After about four days, thank Jesus himself, the panic subsided, but now I'm in a pretty depressed state (8 days since last use), feeling a little hopeless but also thankful that the panic attacks are over. Anyone have any advice to help me get through this part, or when I'll feel okay again? I've run for 30 min a day all week and had mostly healthy food. All I want for Christmas is to feel normal and sober again.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, it has been the only consolation I've had in over a week.
Thank god for this thread, it provides the only helpful information on kratom withdrawal that I've been able to come by. Pnm, all of your posts have been very informative and supportive and I appreciate it. I was seriously starting to wonder if I'd messed myself up for good or something.
My roommate (I'm a college sophomore) was the first to introduce me to kratom in October of this year. He let me try 3g of Bali before a study session and of course I was in love. I went and ordered 100g of Bali and and ended up taking ~6g a day for about a month. One 3g dose in the afternoon and then one at night. Obviously, after a while the stuff seemed to "lose its magic". The need to quit hit me one night when I waited till right before bed to take my 3g dose of kratom and it didn't help me fall asleep, but made me irritable, so reluctantly I washed down 3 more grams and ended up not falling asleep till many hours later. So the next day I decided to go without and I felt pretty sick and a little blue the whole day, but it was manageable and I just stayed stoned most of the day. The next day I had a pretty bad headache and needed to get some work done so I popped an adderall and this seemed to make the w/d's subside, and by the time it was wearing off I just smoked more weed and fell asleep and it was fine. The next day was a Wednesday and the only w/d symptom I felt was slight but very manageable depression. Ended up just smoking before bed like the last few times and everything was fine. So, on Thursday (this is all during our finals week) I checked my grades and saw that I had failed a class, and I guess since I was a little depressed from the kratom w/d it made me feel absolutely terrible, so thinking maybe since the withdrawals were mostly over, I could take 3g of kratom and my tolerance would be down and everything would be perfect. Of course, it kicked in and I loved it but when I woke up the next day (Friday), I noticed I felt a little anxious, nothing too bad but a kind of stage fright feeling. All I had was a really easy final in my free elective so I was confused as to why I would be jittery about that.
As the day went on, however, I noticed that I was getting a little more panicky and uncomfortable. By nighttime I was living in complete torture. I paced around my living room having a panic attack every 15 minutes from 11 to about 5 a.m., couldn't even think about sleeping even though I was so tired. I eventually passed out for a couple of hours but woke up at like 8 having uncontrollable panic attacks, which lasted pretty much the entire day and of course I smoked a bunch of marijuana and it eventually knocked me out. The next day was exactly the same, I just felt panicky and horrible the whole day. It was the worst depression I'd ever had, it felt like I was alone and hopeless, I couldn't stop crying/having anxiety attacks. I was REALLY starting to worry at this point that I was gonna be stuck this way because I hadn't been taking that much kratom in the first place. After about four days, thank Jesus himself, the panic subsided, but now I'm in a pretty depressed state (8 days since last use), feeling a little hopeless but also thankful that the panic attacks are over. Anyone have any advice to help me get through this part, or when I'll feel okay again? I've run for 30 min a day all week and had mostly healthy food. All I want for Christmas is to feel normal and sober again.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, it has been the only consolation I've had in over a week.
I'll share my experiences. I used Kratom to come off of a long-term opiate habit this summer. Worked great actually, the switch over was actually quite easy I must say. A little withdrawal for a few days but it leveled off very quickly. In the beginning I was just taking a tablespoon of leaf three times per day. Stuck with that for a couple months. I've been tapering down for a few months now. I bought a scale that measures in 0.01 gram increments so I can be more accurate with dose. I'm down now to 1.5 grams 3x per day.
Here's the thing I find very different about Kratom. I'm noticing at the point I'm at now, I start feeling withdrawal symptoms shortly before my next dose. It's not so bad with the 2nd and 3rd of the day. But where it's really starting to wear me down a bit is over night. Every single morning I wake up feeling withdrawals. Now it's way more minor than with real opiates, the main symptom being just that slight RLS feeling where you're uncomfortable no matter what position you're in and kind of drained feeling. I'm finding like every morning I end up waking up like an hour or two before I need to be up and I am feeling it and can't go back to sleep. Most of the time after a good nights sleep you feel refreshed and good when you first wake up, but now I'm honestly starting to forget what that feels like. I take my first dose shortly after waking up, but still it's a pain.
I don't have any regrets though, managing a kratom habit is about 1000x easier than what I was doing. Side effects are pretty much non-existant, I've never had it make me feel sick to my stomach like some people report. When I was using larger amounts when I first switched, sometimes it would make me feel quite dizzy for an hour or so but it would pass. But where I'm at now there's zero recreational value to it, I just take it and feel ok, good just like any regular person would feel, certainly not buzzed or high at all.
I think I'm going to stick with the 4.5 grams/day I'm at for a week or so and hopefully it levels off a bit. I'll then just continue taking it down a little each day. I haven't experienced any kind of the mental symptoms like some people report, depression or anxiety, and I'd really, really like to avoid those so I'll take it slow.
It's been very helpful to me, but I think it's another example, no matter what, if you mess with opiates and get into a decent habit, there's no clean break from it, no way. You have to pay back that pleasure with a certain amount of suffering, one way or another, to varying degrees.
Here's the thing I find very different about Kratom. I'm noticing at the point I'm at now, I start feeling withdrawal symptoms shortly before my next dose. It's not so bad with the 2nd and 3rd of the day. But where it's really starting to wear me down a bit is over night. Every single morning I wake up feeling withdrawals. Now it's way more minor than with real opiates, the main symptom being just that slight RLS feeling where you're uncomfortable no matter what position you're in and kind of drained feeling. I'm finding like every morning I end up waking up like an hour or two before I need to be up and I am feeling it and can't go back to sleep. Most of the time after a good nights sleep you feel refreshed and good when you first wake up, but now I'm honestly starting to forget what that feels like. I take my first dose shortly after waking up, but still it's a pain.
I don't have any regrets though, managing a kratom habit is about 1000x easier than what I was doing. Side effects are pretty much non-existant, I've never had it make me feel sick to my stomach like some people report. When I was using larger amounts when I first switched, sometimes it would make me feel quite dizzy for an hour or so but it would pass. But where I'm at now there's zero recreational value to it, I just take it and feel ok, good just like any regular person would feel, certainly not buzzed or high at all.
I think I'm going to stick with the 4.5 grams/day I'm at for a week or so and hopefully it levels off a bit. I'll then just continue taking it down a little each day. I haven't experienced any kind of the mental symptoms like some people report, depression or anxiety, and I'd really, really like to avoid those so I'll take it slow.
It's been very helpful to me, but I think it's another example, no matter what, if you mess with opiates and get into a decent habit, there's no clean break from it, no way. You have to pay back that pleasure with a certain amount of suffering, one way or another, to varying degrees.
I found these posts to be very helpful. Like Greenlighter, I had a long-term opiate habit (Codeine) quit for a long time and then started using Kratom, which I am now off of but still in withdrawal. I'm not sure how much use there is in comparing all the different types of withdrawal as some of the posters do (they're all unpleasant) but really withdrawing from kratom is pretty damn similar to withdrawing from other opitates; maybe a little less severe but still not fun.
I think a lot of us probably started using kratom because it didn't seem so bad, especially compared with many other drugs - it's natural, the effects are pleasant, it's legal in many places, it has some positive aspects, it's easy to obtain. But after having used it for a year my opinion is that it is a drug like any other - addictive, harmful, expensive. I don't really see any benefit in using kratom over other opiates in terms of health or well being and I want to be rid of this crutch.
A lot of posters have recommended other substances to ease the withdrawal and I have to admit that I am tempted too. But I do think that that's just our addiction talking - without kratom our brains want something, anything, to get them high, and using alcohol, dxm or anything else to get over the withdrawal just risks an addiction to something else. Maybe I have more of an addictive personality than other posters, but I've found through trial and error that it's not that I'm addicted to one specific thing but that I'm just an addict, and without that thing - kratom or whatever - my brain will look for something else.
I don't mean to sermonize but just want to warn from personal experience that substituting one drug for another to get over withdrawal is risky. And really, when you get down to it, the withdrawal is no worse than a bad cold or flu that we have all suffered from and survived.
I think a lot of us probably started using kratom because it didn't seem so bad, especially compared with many other drugs - it's natural, the effects are pleasant, it's legal in many places, it has some positive aspects, it's easy to obtain. But after having used it for a year my opinion is that it is a drug like any other - addictive, harmful, expensive. I don't really see any benefit in using kratom over other opiates in terms of health or well being and I want to be rid of this crutch.
A lot of posters have recommended other substances to ease the withdrawal and I have to admit that I am tempted too. But I do think that that's just our addiction talking - without kratom our brains want something, anything, to get them high, and using alcohol, dxm or anything else to get over the withdrawal just risks an addiction to something else. Maybe I have more of an addictive personality than other posters, but I've found through trial and error that it's not that I'm addicted to one specific thing but that I'm just an addict, and without that thing - kratom or whatever - my brain will look for something else.
I don't mean to sermonize but just want to warn from personal experience that substituting one drug for another to get over withdrawal is risky. And really, when you get down to it, the withdrawal is no worse than a bad cold or flu that we have all suffered from and survived.
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2000
- Messages
- 13,773
This thread has been refreshing to read. Kratom is not easy to kick if you have been on it for years. Sure, its not poppy pods, its not suboxone withdrawal, but it sucks in its own way and leaves many very depressed. It took a month of so for my body to really feel 'normal' again after kratom. In my case kratom replaced suboxone, which replaced poppy pod tea; so perhaps those with long term opiate dependency issues are prone to extended kratom WD, or maybe it is the other way.
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