Lysergamides Issy's first time on LSD crystal

[Ismene2]

I don't know if you've ever heard of a book call TIHKAL
Let's just quote Mr Shulgin in the entry for LSD regarding the Iso-LSD isomers which you claim are active in micrograms:

"Through a process called epimerization, this position can scramble, producing isolysergic acid diethylamide, or iso-LSD. This product is biologically inactive, and represents a loss of a proportionate amount of active product."

But yes let's just disregard everything that isn't in accordance with what you belive to be true....

So what about me Ballz? Check out my posts for the last 10 years - I believed the same as you.

Then I took pure LSD.

Can't get any better proof than that can you.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

even alberts first trip on 250 ug of pure LSD. No negative side effects and totally refreshed the next day as LSD should be

 

[AutoTripper]

I have actually always firmly believed that LSD is not LSD same for MDMA.

And I'm puzzled, should be peeved at Shulgin really.

Even his wife disagreed I believe.

Because it was IMO an erronious error to massively underrate ALD, it must have just gone over his head at the time.

Because had his publications and testimony done ALD justice it would surely have been ever more prevalent.

I never looked deeper though into why Albert having synthesised ALD also, focussed on and stardomed the one.

Maybe Albert never tripped fully on ALD.

And Leary failed to pick up the slack there too.

If not for Nick Sand's futile longshot, maybe ALD would have slidden right off map.

It may also be the higher cost of production too.

 

[Mjäll]

they literally means nothing lmao. Biologically inactive no shit its not gonna get u high mix it with some LSD and it ruins ur fucking trip because it still binds to ur recptors

If you had to guess:

Does binding to receptors constitute biological activity? Yes or no?

What would be your pick?

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

even alberts first trip on 250 ug of pure LSD. No negative side effects and totally refreshed the next day as LSD should be

You are incorrect yet again...his first trip was an accident and it's unkown how much he took according to his 1980 memoir "LSD My Problem Child:
Hofmann was the very first person to drop acid, but his first trip wasn’t on April 19th. It was actually three days earlier. On April 16th, 1943, Hofmann decided to take another look at LSD, so he started synthesizing a new batch. Just as he was finishing that process, Hofmann began feeling strange and decided to set his work aside for the day.
On April 19, Hofmann went back to his lab to drop acid—on purpose, this time—but he had no idea how much to take.
But there was no way for Hofmann to know that since he was LSD’s own guinea pig. So he guessed that 250 micrograms would be a suitable dose, which he swallowed at 4:20 PM (fittingly enough).

My surroundings had now transformed themselves in more terrifying ways,” he notes in his memoir. “Everything in the room spun around, and the familiar objects and pieces of furniture assumed grotesque, threatening forms. They were in continuous motion, animated, as if driven by an inner restlessness.”

"The lady next door, whom I scarcely recognized, brought me milk—in the course of the evening I drank more than two liters. She was no longer Mrs. R., but rather a malevolent, insidious witch with a colored mask.”

“A demon had invaded me, had taken possession of my body, mind, and soul. I jumped up and down and screamed, trying to free myself from him, but then sank down again and lay helpless on the sofa. The substance, with which I had wanted to experiment, had vanquished me. It was the demon that scornfully triumphed over my will.”
I was seized by the dreadful fear of going insane. I was taken to another world, another place, another time. My body seemed to be without sensation, lifeless, strange. Was I dying? Was this the transition?”

The most challenging parts of the experience lasted until his doctor arrived to check Hofmann’s vitals, which were normal. The only thing that seemed strange to the doctor was Hofmann’s inability to speak coherently and his “extremely dilated pupils.”
His first 250ug trip was clearly a bad trip....anything else you want me to clear up?

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

So what about me Ballz? Check out my posts for the last 10 years - I believed the same as you.

Then I took pure LSD.

Can't get any better proof than that can you.

The problem is racemic lsd is pure lsd....(D) Isomers LSD is LSD split into its active 25% fraction.
400ug of PURE racemic LSD would be as potent as 100ug (D) isomer LSD .....likewise 100ug racemic lsd would be the equivalent of 25ug (D) isomers LSD.
(D) isomer LSD is extraordinarily more potent than PURE racemic LSD.....are you able to extrapolate why your ds3.0 has that potency?

 

[Bitchniggaz]

You are incorrect yet again...his first trip was an accident and it's unkown how much he took according to his 1980 memoir "LSD My Problem Child:
Hofmann was the very first person to drop acid, but his first trip wasn’t on April 19th. It was actually three days earlier. On April 16th, 1943, Hofmann decided to take another look at LSD, so he started synthesizing a new batch. Just as he was finishing that process, Hofmann began feeling strange and decided to set his work aside for the day.
On April 19, Hofmann went back to his lab to drop acid—on purpose, this time—but he had no idea how much to take.
But there was no way for Hofmann to know that since he was LSD’s own guinea pig. So he guessed that 250 micrograms would be a suitable dose, which he swallowed at 4:20 PM (fittingly enough).

My surroundings had now transformed themselves in more terrifying ways,” he notes in his memoir. “Everything in the room spun around, and the familiar objects and pieces of furniture assumed grotesque, threatening forms. They were in continuous motion, animated, as if driven by an inner restlessness.”

"The lady next door, whom I scarcely recognized, brought me milk—in the course of the evening I drank more than two liters. She was no longer Mrs. R., but rather a malevolent, insidious witch with a colored mask.”

“A demon had invaded me, had taken possession of my body, mind, and soul. I jumped up and down and screamed, trying to free myself from him, but then sank down again and lay helpless on the sofa. The substance, with which I had wanted to experiment, had vanquished me. It was the demon that scornfully triumphed over my will.”
I was seized by the dreadful fear of going insane. I was taken to another world, another place, another time. My body seemed to be without sensation, lifeless, strange. Was I dying? Was this the transition?”

The most challenging parts of the experience lasted until his doctor arrived to check Hofmann’s vitals, which were normal. The only thing that seemed strange to the doctor was Hofmann’s inability to speak coherently and his “extremely dilated pupils.”
His first 250ug trip was clearly a bad trip....anything else you want me to clear up?

Nice goalpost transfer, whats next?
Debunking somehow by pointing out errors in their grammar?

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Nice goalpost transfer, whats next?
Debunking somehow by pointing out errors in their grammar?

I could say the same about you....I'm just trying to debunk incorrect information...does it make you feel like a big man to add nothing to the conversation but stroke your ego?
At least I added something relevant to the conversation.....

 

[Mjäll]

Nice goalpost transfer, whats next?
Debunking somehow by pointing out errors in their grammar?

That's not fair play, putting the blame on mr Ballz_Trippington for not getting any proper arguments to debunk. What can be debunked except for an anecdote, if an anecdote is all that's put forth?

Do you believe mr TripSitter is correct in his self-conflicting assumptions? Do you believe his arguments are valid? I feel puzzled as to why you choose to respond in this way to this discussion.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

All i can say have fun with your "lsd" bunk stuff. Ill consume my wonderful 100% needlepoint.

 

[The Shadow Self]

No, I'm not that devious shadow. In fact for the last 10 years you can find my posts arguing "LSD is LSD", "Purity makes absolutely no difference", "It's all bollocks - nothing is active at the same dose as LSD...". Go look - me and tripsitternz used to argue like junkyard dogs.

Then I took this pure LSD and everything changed. This is so different to the shit I've had for 20 years as to be a completely different drug. Yeah I know all the bollocks about "it's biologically inactive" or whatever but seeing as no-one has the foggiest idea how LSD works in the first place what faith can you put it in their reasoning? The only true way of finding out what a drug does to your brain is to take it right? It's a very good bet I've taken more LSD than most people - and this ain't LSD like I've known it. I'm not telling it you because it's a sales pitch - I'm saying it because it's true.

If you don't believe it that's fine. But if anyone out there needs to experience the greatest drug on earth - you need to get yourself some DS crystal LSD.

Well...I'd sure be open to trying it. But to be honest, after all these years and being fortunate enough to have tried many, many different batches of LSD and had many, great experiences with the vast majority of the "variants", if you will, with some exceptions, I do not feel like I've missed out on anything in terms of acquiring quality L. So as a result, I am not feeling like a missed out on anything in particular, if that makes sense. Quite to the contrary, in fact. And I will say that I certainly have experienced tremendous variation from batch to batch over time, and I am one of those people who has consumed enough LSD to know that this tremendous variability in terms of experience is quite real and rather stark once you've gotten many samples and have many experiences, again, over time. Perhaps I have been more fortunate than others.

But yeah...I am certainly not against giving it a go but I also do not have any need to acquire any, if you know what I mean. I will continue to explore this avenue to find out more information, for sure.

 

[Xorkoth]

I am puzzled by why this thread has become so hostile. This is an age-old debate. Is a molecule a molecule? Or is there something more going on? For example, polymorphism... to me, there is clearly something different between 2 molecules that form different crystal structures when they crystallize. So why wouldn't it be possible that they would do something somewhat different in the brain? I do not believe we have the full picture of how drugs interact with the brain or even about how atoms bind to form molecules. By that I mean, I am fairly certain that there is more to it that we do not yet know, though we know a lot. I know I have experienced distinct and persistent differences between different batches of the same drug, that it is difficult for me to accept is simply due to placebo/nocebo. Sometimes that can be down to the potent for a different ratio of optical isomers. But sometimes, like in the case of 3-MeO-PCP, there are no chiral centers, so there are no isomers possible. Yet I have a difficult time dismissing my experiences with two distinct batches where one was very stimulating and manic and the other was dissociating and fairly sedating. And both were pure 3-MeO-PCP via GC/MS.

I don'[t know that anyone can claim with 100% confidence that there are or are not factors in drugs besides purity and isomers that may have an effect on the subjective experience. I'm not claiming one way or the other is fact, only that it's good to remember that humans have always felt the current status quo of understanding is ultimate truth, and yet, it never has been before. It seems unlikely to be that it is now, either. And our understanding of the inner workings of the brain is honestly in its childhood, there is a great deal we do not understand at all, and more that we are just beginning to understand.

 

[Ismene2]

The problem is racemic lsd is pure lsd....(D) Isomers LSD is LSD split into its active 25% fraction.
400ug of PURE racemic LSD would be as potent as 100ug (D) isomer LSD .....likewise 100ug racemic lsd would be the equivalent of 25ug (D) isomers LSD.
(D) isomer LSD is extraordinarily more potent than PURE racemic LSD.....are you able to extrapolate why your ds3.0 has that potency?

Well I can't comment on the chemistry of it Trippington - I have no idea. All I can comment on is the effects.

LSD has a vast range of effects sure but this stuff is as different to the LSD I've been taking as mushrooms is to LSD. It's an entirely different, clearer headspace - even at 550mics you feel utterly clear-headed. It's an order of magnitude more psychedelic. The visuals are like a completely different drug to any LSD I've ever had for the last 17 years. I have never once been impressed by acid's effect on nature. Not once. I've always thought it was a peice of shit compared to mushrooms. With this stuff the moment I set foot outside I thought to myself "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?". You can get to sleep on it ok - which I've never been able to do on any LSD for the last 17 years. It has a beautiful afterglow rather than the hangover that I've had from every LSD single trip I've had for the last 17 years. It's an order of magnitude more physical euphoria...I mean I could go on...

Oh - and one other thing. It's the cheapest acid you can buy. So tell me Ballz, what exactly have you got to lose?

 

[Ismene2]

The most challenging parts of the experience lasted until his doctor arrived to check Hofmann’s vitals, which were normal. The only thing that seemed strange to the doctor was Hofmann’s inability to speak coherently and his “extremely dilated pupils.”
His first 250ug trip was clearly a bad trip....anything else you want me to clear up?

But he didn't know if he'd swallowed poison or if he was going to die or go insane - it was a completely unknown drug. You can't blame LSD impurities for giving him a bad trip. You give anyone an unknown psychedelic and it's likely they will feel uncomfortable. Particularly 80 years ago when barely anyone knew what a psychedelic drug was.

 

[AutoTripper]

You are incorrect yet again...his first trip was an accident and it's unkown how much he took according to his 1980 memoir "LSD My Problem Child:
Hofmann was the very first person to drop acid, but his first trip wasn’t on April 19th. It was actually three days earlier. On April 16th, 1943, Hofmann decided to take another look at LSD, so he started synthesizing a new batch. Just as he was finishing that process, Hofmann began feeling strange and decided to set his work aside for the day.
On April 19, Hofmann went back to his lab to drop acid—on purpose, this time—but he had no idea how much to take.
But there was no way for Hofmann to know that since he was LSD’s own guinea pig. So he guessed that 250 micrograms would be a suitable dose, which he swallowed at 4:20 PM (fittingly enough).

My surroundings had now transformed themselves in more terrifying ways,” he notes in his memoir. “Everything in the room spun around, and the familiar objects and pieces of furniture assumed grotesque, threatening forms. They were in continuous motion, animated, as if driven by an inner restlessness.”

"The lady next door, whom I scarcely recognized, brought me milk—in the course of the evening I drank more than two liters. She was no longer Mrs. R., but rather a malevolent, insidious witch with a colored mask.”

“A demon had invaded me, had taken possession of my body, mind, and soul. I jumped up and down and screamed, trying to free myself from him, but then sank down again and lay helpless on the sofa. The substance, with which I had wanted to experiment, had vanquished me. It was the demon that scornfully triumphed over my will.”
I was seized by the dreadful fear of going insane. I was taken to another world, another place, another time. My body seemed to be without sensation, lifeless, strange. Was I dying? Was this the transition?”

The most challenging parts of the experience lasted until his doctor arrived to check Hofmann’s vitals, which were normal. The only thing that seemed strange to the doctor was Hofmann’s inability to speak coherently and his “extremely dilated pupils.”
His first 250ug trip was clearly a bad trip....anything else you want me to clear up?

I did read this exact matching account myself of this legendary event.

More details ofc but you summed it up fittingly.

But to maybe go back to TripSitter's point.

What I personally took overall from Albert's trip.

Well first, imagine coming up, visually, electrically on that bike!

It was in the war too. Maybe he did see actual Demons??


The physician was called at home, he felt off.

Hallucinations etc. No diagnosis could be prescribed.

No real concern was ever raised.

The effects wore down. He slept, felt dandy I bet went to work as usual too next day with can you imagine the sly grin lol.

So in that sense, no bad effects.

 

[AutoTripper]

But he didn't know if he'd swallowed poison or if he was going to die or go insane - it was a completely unknown drug. You can't blame LSD impurities for giving him a bad trip. You give anyone an unknown psychedelic and it's likely they will feel uncomfortable. Particularly 80 years ago when barely anyone knew what a psychedelic drug was.

Yes but they're circulated very widely through the hippie ages the myth or suggestion that bad trips were invented by the government.

I believe there is some traction to this myself

 

[Ismene2]

I'm sure some people can have bad trips on the most perfect LSD you can find. Some people arn't meant to trip.

 

[AutoTripper]

I'm sure some people can have bad trips on the most perfect LSD you can find. Some people arn't meant to trip.

I agree with that fully but I also can accept so easily that the government as part of their devious little MK Ultra program with LSD distribution right at the core of it would have certainly conducted an effective psy op to induce the psychosomatic fear of the bad trip.

 

[Mjäll]

I have never once been impressed by acid's effect on nature. Not once. I've always thought it was a peice of shit compared to mushrooms. With this stuff the moment I set foot outside I thought to myself "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?".

Maybe you just decided that LSD doesn't go well with nature - then you accidentally bypassed your own conviction with a psychedelic at high dose. It does appear to be completely made up... Your conviction i mean. Why wouldn't a great psychedelic go well with nature?

Sorry if i sound mean. Not sure how to put this in kinder words, but i really think it belongs in the realm of very obvious and relevant responses to what you're saying.

 

[Listening]

I do think it's funny that in the famous ongoing MDMA debate thread, almost everyone agrees that the debate is only about MDMA and that "acid is acid".

There's also a similar long-running debate thread about methamphetamine.

Personally I don't have enough experience with LSD to comment, but I wonder how this relates to the various analogs out there.

Also, even if it's true that your ds3.0 is the best LSD ever, surely there are multiple batches (not to mention copy-cats) of that so who can say that it's reproducible?