Injection; IV Complications and Information MEGATHREAD and FAQ II - show me the blood

[ms4104]

I've tried holding really still but it is a problem for me. Plus my veins are not very presentable. Makes it that much harder. I've tried using the veins in my feet but I can't hold really still. Argh. This is tough.

You should use/find the veins in the crook of your arms. I have literally no visible veins yet i am an addict sometimes doing 20 shots a day and I manage. I never use my hands or feet. If your lucky you can tie off and see some type of bulge. Those are the deeper thicker veins. Everyone has the crook of elbow veins, I use 1/2 inch pins, neither arm is visible (there is a track mark now though). Dunno how I found it originally lol but its been workin for years.

The small (especially spider looking) veins SUCK and you can not IV in them. Technically any vein will work but these veins are so small even an experienced IVer slips out easy. You need a spot where you can anchor your pin down when you hit the right spot if that makes any sense.

 

[Ayrios]

I recently switched from EasyTouch 29g to Terumo 31g and I'm having a little trouble jacking back to register... My posture, I felt, was perfect with the ETs: they have loose plungers so I was able to hold the barrel just infront of the cross section between my middle finger and thumb while only using the index finger to jack back and then push. This way I had absolutely no movement except sliding the needle in. With the finer Terumos, I have a very hard time pushing the plunger back to register, using such force that the needle moves a little, and once even requiring I change posture mid-process just so I could pull back the plunger.

How much of this increased difficulty is related to the finer gauge? I may try 30g next time. How much is related to the brand itself? BDs are a bit sharper, but notoriously difficult to jack back with... I'd really like to stick with Terumos, and don't want to have to change what I consider a perfect posture due to plunger stiffness. I've heard it's easier to register with less solution. I use 80 units (more dilute = less potential damage if injected slowly, in theory--that probably matters more for coke and meth, though, and I'm talking about high purity H). Would using 40-50 units per shot make it easier to jack back?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Quick question here. A good number of my friends believe that after missing a shot (ie. coke) that taking oral anti-biotics for a few days is a wise idea. The oral a-biotics being in addition to hot compress / topical triple anti-biotic on the injection site. They were asking me about the usefulness of this & I didn't really have a good answer for them. Would anyone here happen to know the benefits / cons of doing so? As it's slightly outside my knowledge area & I'd like to give them a proper answer.
Thanks for the info if anyone has any.

Using anti-biotics before they are necessary may be a bad idea; I would avoid it.

Antibiotic ointment - yes do that.

Try a heat compress; that should do a lot of good.

I've tried holding really still but it is a problem for me. Plus my veins are not very presentable. Makes it that much harder. I've tried using the veins in my feet but I can't hold really still. Argh. This is tough.

Honestly, it took me thousands of attempts to get IVing down right. So don't get discouraged.

Or, do get discouraged, and quit IVing since it's probably a good idea to?

It's really up to you. A lot of people here would advise you not to IV.

Nonetheless; I hope you can avoid missing shots. I have missed a fair share of shots and it's not fun. You can always PM me if you have any questions that you think I could answer for you.

I recently switched from EasyTouch 29g to Terumo 31g and I'm having a little trouble jacking back to register... My posture, I felt, was perfect with the ETs: they have loose plungers so I was able to hold the barrel just infront of the cross section between my middle finger and thumb while only using the index finger to jack back and then push. This way I had absolutely no movement except sliding the needle in. With the finer Terumos, I have a very hard time pushing the plunger back to register, using such force that the needle moves a little, and once even requiring I change posture mid-process just so I could pull back the plunger.

How much of this increased difficulty is related to the finer gauge? I may try 30g next time. How much is related to the brand itself? BDs are a bit sharper, but notoriously difficult to jack back with... I'd really like to stick with Terumos, and don't want to have to change what I consider a perfect posture due to plunger stiffness. I've heard it's easier to register with less solution. I use 80 units (more dilute = less potential damage if injected slowly, in theory--that probably matters more for coke and meth, though, and I'm talking about high purity H). Would using 40-50 units per shot make it easier to jack back?

Terumo 31G? Do you have a picture? Where did you find them? I have heard of such a thing, it has just been nearly impossible to find a vendor willing to sell it to me.

 

[Ayrios]

Terumo 31g

Edit: I should add that American Diabetes Wholesale will sell you anything, no questions asked. That's my impression, anyway, but 31g Terumos are listed under 'Pet Diabetes Supplies'--perhaps they're more stringent about 29gs listed as 'Diabetes Supplies.'

 

[stray cat]

This is my first iv-related post, as it is not something I have been doing for very long, and it is also something that my significant other is entirely unaware of- we both enjoy opiates, but she would probably consider divorce if she found out I had ever injected a drug (I know, drugs mess up your priorities). I'm also in a highly regulated professional field, and if anyone learned I used drugs-let alone intravenously-I would be pretty much fucked. (Again, drugs mess up your priorities). By the way, my technique is solid; I just do not do it much.

I shot a number of times on Sunday into various areas, but the area of concern is my bicep. Obviously I did not hit the exact same spot twice, but I did hit a few times relatively close to each other, going up the vein towards my shoulder. I have no idea which shot may be the one responsible for causing me concern now. I did not feel any burning sensation or experience any immediate redness, tenderness, swelling, etc. at any time after any shot that day or night. For the record, I was shooting roxies, although at one point after a few beers, I threw in a quarter bar (.5mg) of xanax as well. This was all filtered through tightly woven cotton (I know micron is the way to go; it's too late now).

Yesterday, I began to notice redness and swelling. Today, two days later, there is a decent amount of redness, a sizeable lump, swelling, and it is tender to the touch, although it is not painful otherwise. There is no sign of puss. I have applied warm water and a warm compress both yesterday and today, and I always run hot water over the injection site immediately following a shot as a precaution anyway.

I know the best policy is, "when in doubt, go to the er." However, I'm wondering if it's okay to give it another day or 2 to try to heal on its own. Clearly, if I wake up tomorrow with a black orange-sized lump and red lines leading to my heart, I will immediately seek medical attention. I'm more wondering if it's okay generally to try to treat with warm compress and see if it starts to get better by itself after a few days when it does not appear to be life-threatening at the moment. It most likely is an abscess I think, but the swelling and redness are localized, and I would obviously prefer to avoid the ER if possible. If it gets worse tomorrow or the next day, I will go. I am just seeking opinions on the idea of treating myself for a couple days and seeing if it starts to get better.

This has never happened to me before, and although I am concerned, I do not believe what I'm facing right now is immediately life- or limb-threatening. I would greatly appreciate any advice, keeping in mind that I already know seeking medical attention is always the safest bet but that this has thus far not progressed into anything terrible or terribly painful, and it has only been a couple of days. Thanks!

 

[InvisibleEye]

^ You might want to draw a circle around the abscess with a marker, just to make sure that the swelling does not get any worse as hours go by.

 

[Limitbreaker]

Hey,

I'm a thin guy and I have problem with IV that my hands are shaking a bit. I hadn't this problem with IM-ing, done IM a few times and always enjoyed it.

It's not because of coming down off anything, no. I'm always clean before injecting anything. Any tips on how I could fix that? I've tried IV-ing few times, succeed only once, the other times I always had my hand shaking so badly that after I was in the vein, during the injection the needle always came outta vein.

I had the blood in that needle gauge, but after I push, it appears I've missed...

I don't have benzos...

Also, if I miss the vein, can I just jab myself with the same needle again in another place or should I stick it out, wait a few moments, change needle then go?

 

[Ayrios]

Sounds like nerves, man... IM isn't a nervous affair since you can essentially throw a syringe like a dart and land in someone's deltoid in-zone. I was going to say 'take a little alprazolam' before you said you didn't have benzos. Even .25-.5 mg would help steady you out if you can afford to buy a few bars to split into the aforementioned smaller doses.

A single miss and I'm going to backload a brand new syringe. I use 31gs and they really aren't good for a second poke, and neither are most 29s aside from BDs and perhaps Terumos. I would only repoke with a BD (consensus is they're the sharpest) and only once. You're not just losing sharpness but also lubricant on the second poke so you can 'tear' surrounding tissue more as the needle penetrates deeper. It's mostly about making as clean and small a hole in the vein as possible, though. They take much longer to heal than your skin. Some people will tell you not to re-enter but instead 'dig around' in the same hole... When you do that, you're admitting your initially poke was misguided and you're just fishing around, not worth the extra damage IMO. Pull out, backload a new syringe (pull the plunger out, squirt old syringe into the barrel, replace plunger), try again.

 

[stray cat]

just to update from yesterday, swelling and redness have both decreased. naturally, i'll continue to monitor, but i'm thinking i may have gotten lucky this time. quite a relief, and hopefully will make me think twice about future use of this roa.

 

[Ayrios]

Those of you who use 31g syringes:

Do you find it nearly impossible, or at least extremely time-consuming, to suck up solution through cotton with this gauge? I eventually gave up and now use a 29g to back load the 31g I actually use :/ The extra cost is minimal, still a bit annoying... (And yeah, I know, cotton sucks :/ If I could micron filter 30 ml of diamorph solution in bacteriostatic water using a single filter without it just degrading to morphine, I would, but 1 filter per shot is too costly for me at the moment.)

 

[johnny911]

Hi. Question. Is it bad to shoot up a solution if you see little white floaties in it? I mean they are so small they can barely be seen. Whatman 0.2 u PVDF filters are used to filter tec, but somehow the floaties are still present. Using bacteriostatic water too so it's not the water.

Will the tiny floaties be broken down in the blood somehow like through mass phagocytosis or are they bad fucking news, like brain aneurism type bad? Or like build up in your lungs type bad? And yes they remain there even after sitting overnight, so they're not pill chunks.

Thanks!!!

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

i would go on the side of caution and say they are bad. Trash the shot just to be safe.. not worth losing a limb or dying over is it?

 

[Limitbreaker]

Sounds like nerves, man... IM isn't a nervous affair since you can essentially throw a syringe like a dart and land in someone's deltoid in-zone. I was going to say 'take a little alprazolam' before you said you didn't have benzos. Even .25-.5 mg would help steady you out if you can afford to buy a few bars to split into the aforementioned smaller doses.

Yeah, still, some people keep claiming IM being harder than IV... Nice joke. Not.

Sadly, I don't have access to benzos, and it seems unlikely that I will have to in the nearest future. Any other protips?

 

[johnny911]

i would go on the side of caution and say they are bad. Trash the shot just to be safe.. not worth losing a limb or dying over is it?

That would work, except they keep popping up in the main holding container (empty bacteriostatic water bottle) up every time a new batch is made (160-180 shots). That isn't going to be thrown out I'm afraid.

I think they might be scrapings from the used luer lock needle that pushes through the rubber on the bottle. They might be salt deposits from bacteriostatic saline used sometimes instead of water or maybe calcium deposits.

Does anyone ever notice tiny little floaters and still do them anyway?

 

[Ayrios]

Yeah, still, some people keep claiming IM being harder than IV... Nice joke. Not.

Sadly, I don't have access to benzos, and it seems unlikely that I will have to in the nearest future. Any other protips?

Only time IM is hard for me is if I'm trying to hit my thigh with a short insulin needle--gotta hit the perfect place where you can get deep enough into the right muscle there. But even with just a 1/2" 29ga, the deltoid is a no-brainer, and perfectly sufficient for up to 1cc loads... Must be people trying to make it harder than it has to be using short needles in their glutes

Well, a bigger gauge needle will stay in a vein more firmly--more traction... I wouldn't want to go larger than 29ga personally though. Going deeper into the vein after entering at a shallower angle will also make it harder to fall out of it, but know where your valves are--hitting a valve will cause a good vein to swell partially or entirely shut for weeks, and you could lose it. Does your posture require you to change the way you hold the syringe to inject? That's one of the easiest ways to fall out of a vein. Avoid that by holding the barrel near the '+' section between your thumb and middle finger so that your index finger is only used to push back the plunger to register and then push down the plunger to deliver--no change of posture after registering, only the index finger moves and you should be able to hold steady despite some shakiness with this position. If the plunger is too stiff to push back with just your index finger (you'll be pushing the plunger back from the side, not a perfect angle), try to loosen it up by working the plunger some before using... You may find a BD plunger is always too stiff for this posture, though. Another easy way to fall out is when loosening a torniquet, if you use one so soon. If you do, get a better torniquet (~18" band of latex or non-latex synthetic is ideal--they go for peanuts on eBay as legit medical supplies) so you can loosen it with your teeth to avoid any arm movement. If you just started, you probably have plenty of veins you can easily hit without a torniquet, though. Hold your left arm out palm up and pump your fist hard a few times--the vein you probably see elevated in the middle of your inner elbow and facing this way: '\' is the median cubital and it's practically guaranteed to be the easiest vein to hit. If that's not the vein you're already trying, try it next time. Just locate the valve first so you don't hit it.

That's just general advice on how to stay in better once you register, but if you're shaking really bad because of a fear of needles or something, I don't know how helpful it is... Is it seemingly autonomous or is there a psychological aspect to it? Try to meditate, breathe deep and reassure yourself before starting, and know that you can go about the procedure as slowly as you require. Keep a fresh syringe or two beside you so that you can just backload a new syringe if you fail to register (or fall out after registering) to relieve some pressure.

 

[Ayrios]

Alright, I need some opinions on a partial collapse which I fear is sealing entirely... I somehow managed to hit a valve on my right median cubicle, my favorite vein that I've tried so hard to protect. I can't really explain it, I only know that my left arm's does NOT have a valve in the same location. It's been a month now and I have a hard knot raised on the skin. I put a torniquet on and the vein beyond (away from heart) dilates as if perfectly fine, and the scar/collapse area dilates a little bit, but I can't tell if blood is running through it. Thing that suggests it isn't is the presence of a new small but engorged vein picking up the slack to the right of it. I'm hoping it's only picking up part of the slack and it isn't totally closed. I wouldn't think about it so much, but this is a perfect vein that should have lasted forever as often as I rotate. I put 30 units water in a 31G and inserted 1.5 cm from the valve towards my hand, registered without issue, and injected the water without burning. I don't know if this is a positive sign or if the water simply washed back and went to my heart through the smaller vein I mentioned that has come to the surface. I'm determined not to use the smaller vein regardless of circumstances as it's thin, engorged and likely fragile. I value my arm circulation too much as a musician to lose yet another in the same location.

Does the water injecting without any sort of burn indicate anything, or could it have indeed washed backward (toward my hand) and went to the heart via the replacement vein? The swollen valve feels like a hard ring with perhaps some softness, maybe an opening in the middle, but the heart-side of the vein relative to the valve doesn't noticeably dilate and the engorged replacement vein still makes me fear it isn't allowing circulation at all. It's not totally hardened and it isn't sinking. Is there hope for this previously huge and hearty vein's recovery? I wouldn't be bothered if it was any other vein... I totally failed to anticipate asymmetric valve structure. When should I attempt a shot of dope to see if it's really gone for good?

Update: After 45 days, I tested it by registering just behind the collapse site and pushing through .3 ml of water. No problem doing either, so this vein has recovered

 

[TheMoney]

My cephalic vein in the middle of my left arm collapsed a few years ago and almost all of the veins re-routed. I'm right handed, and it's hard to shoot lefty... Any advice on finding the new veins? I still have the one in the top of the crook of my elbow (part of the cephalic vein that is still remaining, I assume? I know the rest is gone) that I can use, but other than that, I don't know of any in my left arm that I can use consistently, and it seems impossible to find them. Any help would be greatly appreciated!


Should I just tie on a tourniquet really tight for a while and see what comes out or what?

 

[method own girl]

So, I think I finally learned that injecting methadone, especially in breast area veins, CAN BE DISASTROUS! I have had abscesses before but they were small and minor enough for me to lance myself. This time I honestly thought I was going to lose a tit! I went to the hospital 3 days after it formed and it measured at about 10centimeters in length from above my ribcage on my left side to almost all the way across in the crease beneath my breast. It was so painful I couldn't even move that side of my body. I was becoming ill from it and was running a fever,on my way to septicemia.The doctor lanced it, drained it, and packed it. Gave me antibiotics and pain killers ( worthless when ur on methadone) and sent me on my way. It's been 4 days and it's still draining buckets of pus and nastiness. I WILL ALWAYS TAKE INJECTION HEALTH SERIOUSLY FROM NOW ON! Just wanted to share in hopes that the seriousness of clean and safe injection will be realized by at least one person like me before they end up in a similar or worse situation. I realize how close I came to going septic and it possibly being life threatening.

 

[blurrrxx]

not sure if this has been mentioned or merged with the other thread that i've said this in, but just so it can be out there a in a more prominent way, vit. E has been a lifesaver for me and others i've known in reducing the appearance of tracks/misses/etc. for real try it, you'll notice even the next day a ton of improvement. --stay safe !

 

[TheMoney]

not sure if this has been mentioned or merged with the other thread that i've said this in, but just so it can be out there a in a more prominent way, vit. E has been a lifesaver for me and others i've known in reducing the appearance of tracks/misses/etc. for real try it, you'll notice even the next day a ton of improvement. --stay safe !

Do you mean applying it directly to the affected spots on your skin? Honey has actually worked really well for me. I totally blew up the one shot I attempted last weekend, but had honey on it for the following 2 days and there was no bruise, whereas typically the bruises last about a week. Even as I've been 'searching' for veins this week, there's been more marks from just successful pulls - no injections, no misses - than from that huge miss bc I didn't apply any honey to the spots compared to the missed shot.