Recovery I can't go on, I'll go on

[RDP89]

No Sim. I had no idea at all. In fact, compared to fiorinal w codeine I thought they were "mild".

I was started on 10mg of OxyContin 3x/day at first and within a year was prescribed 5 80mg a day.

It took me about 5mos to realize I was addicted. I thought I had the flu when I went through withdrawal. To this day, I remember the moment I put it together and realized "Omg, Im addicted to OxyContin ". It was gut-wrenching.

I have been thinking about sharing my entire story-from OxyContin to IV heroin.

Purdue knew exactly what they were doing and thousands of people sued them in the late 90's. I should've been one of them.

I don't believe my Dr. at that time knew they were addictive. He said, when he first prescribed them to me "These are non-addictive and long-acting. They've much better than taking the short-acting meds that you could become addicted to". Yeah ok.

How could a medical doctor not realize that an opioid agonist is gonna be physically addicting? Whether it's extended release or not. Not saying you're wrong, just having a hard time wrapping my head around that. Honestly, doctors who aren't specialists (g.p.'s) don't usually know a whole lot of psychopharmacology, but that is just super basic. But yeah, all these stories should be a lesson to people to know what the hell you're taking. Doctors are not infallible, in fact some are outright quacks. Research should always be done.

 

[P0kemama]

Sim,
Thank you so much for honestly sharing about your (new) work experience. I was given a start date for my new job of August 1st. I decided "what the h" and am jumping back into my career, as opposed to a "Less" stressful position b/c work is always a hassle for me, regardless of the level of mental participation needed. However, my new position will be "only" two days a week and the schedule is fixed. I have given myself permission to quit if I find the stress too triggering, as it would be very easy for me to call my pain management doc up and start the whole ball called addiction rolling again... which I do not want to do.
I am going to be traveling before I start my job and I am glad, as I do not not want to create anticipatory anxiety prior to day 1... well, the more I distract myself the better I will feel.
I have other responsibilities starting in August as well... so with 6 months clean and sober at the end of August I will be tested as to how well my physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual being is healing.

Take care, my friend... I think of you often.

 

[simco]

POke, I'm excited for you. The trip sounds great (read about it another thread) and I think work can be a great thing...sounds like you've got a good attitude about it. I know it's a bit nerve wracking to contemplate going back. But under the right circumstances, I think a steady schedule and feelings of accomplishment will be a real boon to your already strong recovery.

 

[Stargazer]

RD-

Because the Dr's were being told it was non-addictive. Research the Purdue lawsuits re OxyContin.

I am amazed at the lack of very basic knowledge of narcotics some gp's have.

 

[Nomasfent]

Stories about medical paths into addiction are chilling. We trust our doctors to do right by us, and it's awful how wrong things sometimes go.

There is a question I've always had about addicted people who started via prescribed narcotics. And in NO WAY do I mean this to sound insensitive. Did either of you (or anyone else) have any inklings that you might end up addicted whe. You started? It sounds like not.

I ask just because of my own mindset when I started with heroin. I knew it was brutally addictive. But a) I thought I could control it, and b) deep down I was depressed as fuck and didn't think I cared if I got strung out. It was only once I was in really deep that I saw that addiction is more awful than I had naively believed.

Simco I had no idea what withdrawals were until I ran out of my loratabs and my doc would not refill untill I went in to see him then he put me on fentanyl I was so glad about that but had no clue it would be harder to come off of than loratabs ohhhhh man that was a bummer to learn about ..My orthopedic surgeon said good luck getting off that in a tone that really made me panic !!! So there is 1 doctor who knows how hard it is to get off the pain meds ...I had NO CLUE how bad I would feel ...I can understand why people do the things they do for drugs... I seriously thought about knocking over a drugstore and I am about as strait and narrow as a person can get LOL ...

 

[simco]

Simco I had no idea what withdrawals were until I ran out of my loratabs and my doc would not refill untill I went in to see him then he put me on fentanyl I was so glad about that but had no clue it would be harder to come off of than loratabs ohhhhh man that was a bummer to learn about ..My orthopedic surgeon said good luck getting off that in a tone that really made me panic !!! So there is 1 doctor who knows how hard it is to get off the pain meds ...I had NO CLUE how bad I would feel ...I can understand why people do the things they do for drugs... I seriously thought about knocking over a drugstore and I am about as strait and narrow as a person can get LOL ...

Sometimes the patronizing, paternalistic attitude of many doctors really gets to me. 10YearsGone is right--the story of Oxycontin's development and marketing really is scandalous. But an equally egregious scandal is that so many doctors treat their patients like infants at best and pains in the ass at worst. Here I'm thinking of my own experience, especially in the world of psychiatry, where many doctors have used my life as a stage to act out weird fantasies about what ails the world (oh never mind the evidence, Sim, you're not depressed; you're bipolar/self-indulgent/borderline/etc...I know because all my patients are undiagnosed bipolar/self-indulgent/borderline/whatever...I'm just cleverer than other doctors). To me, the take-away from these types of horror stories is the reminder that we all need to advocate HARD for ourselves in the doctor's office. That sucks, because by design, we go to doctors when our own knowledge of ourselves runs out, or is at least in question. But such is life (assuming we can afford healthcare at all.)

OK, rant over. Not sure what got into me. But thanks to folks who shared about your experiences with getting turned on to dope by your doctor. It really is interesting to me.

Peace and love.

 

[starting_over]

First off congrats simco on 9 months recovery!!! Been following the thread since the start, it's been amazing to read all the changes.

So, I'm disappointed...mostly with myself. Yesterday I put in 2-weeks notice at my new job. Shit, I've only been there ~3 weeks. Quitting things (aside from drugs ) makes me feel like a total fucking loser. But damn, I underestimated how badly I'd fare in a retail job. Between the psychotic schedules--never the same hours twice...closing one night, opening the next morning was the closest I got to consistency--and the frantic pace--eight hours on the register with a line 10-deep all day--I was getting to the point where I lay in bed at night dreading the next day. For $11/hr, I just couldn't justify that.

So in two weeks I'll be back in the land of the unemployed.

Feeling pretty lame about the whole thing.

One strange aspect of all this...as accustomed as I've become to being in recovery, this experience reminded me that I'm still not firing at full capacity. When stress, disappointment and general negativity rear their heads, my brain goes right back to thinking about drugs. I go right back to my old 'fuck the world; I'm an alien in it anyway' mindset. That really freaked me out.

But I can't blame the quit on my recovery. That decision was all my own fragility.

Retail is notorious for inconsistent schedules and dealing with an often difficult public, but at least you gave it a shot and know that you don't enjoy it. Lots of other jobs out there anyway.

^Both my brother and my son found anger (rage would be more accurate as they described it) to be one of their strongest triggers. It makes sense in a way because anger has that flooding quality that switches everything else (rational thinking especially) off while it burns itself out. Ironically boredom was what they both cited as equally triggering.

Anger is a really good thing to probe when you are not in the throes of it. Maybe what you learned from this is that you need a money making venture that does not hold you at ground zero in the an aspect of the world that makes you feel like an alien. I mean we all have to live in it but there are certain situations (like having to be cheerful to a line of strangers 10 deep for 8 hours) that should be avoided if at all possible.

Your description of working retail has disabused me of my fantasy of working at Trader Joe's stocking shelves. That used to be my fantasy when I was teaching. I thought it would be fantastically mindless. My fantasy avoided all reality of imposed schedules, rotating duties including the checkout line, etc.

Wow that is bang on. Rage (at myself) and boredom leading to drug use... hopefully one day I'll come to grips with both.

 

[simco]

I've got today and tomorrow off work, and I'm planning to spend some time writing and otherwise trying to flex some creative muscle. As I get ready to finish this very brief stint in retail, I'm feeling like attending to my interest in making things is going to be really important in the coming months. These cravings (which had been largely gone for months) are definitely back in the mix, and I need to find a way to spend my days that gives me a sense of at least a little accomplishment.

Looking forward to putting pen to paper.

 

[simco]

I'm happy to say that yesterday was my last day working at my very short-lived job--made it through the two-weeks notice. Really glad to be out of there.

Moving forward, I've decided not to apply for any jobs I don't have a pretty realistic chance of liking OK. As much as I wanted something mindless that I could just leave behind at quitting time, I think I need to be more honest with myself...I have some work skills that make it possible for me to apply for slightly unusual gigs, and I should probably use that to my advantage.

With that in mind, I've got an interview later today. I'm not quite ready for it (couldn't do much prepping while working full time), but hopefully it'll go OK. It's a really interesting job...only down side is a long commute. If that doesn't work out, my previous employer (not the most recent job; the prior one) says that I could come back part time and work from a distance. Distance and part time with them actually sounds pretty good.

 

[simco]

I have always said that anybody who makes fun of jobs like retail and fast food should have to do it themselves for one year (or one month even), then come back and tell me how "anybody" can do it.

Working 20-hour shifts on Black Friday with the flu in the middle of an ice storm, being verbally (and sometimes physically) assaulted by customers on a daily basis, getting yelled at by "managers" who are half your age and couldn't even do your job, much less their own.

Years ago, my father got laid off after 20+ years as a machinist and was forced to take a retail job just to make ends meet... He walked out on the third day!

Yeah, retail is no joke. No one thing about it particularly awful...but the combination of the kinds of things you mention--awful hours, abusive customers, feckless managers, abysmal pay--it was too much for me. My hat is off to folks who can make a go of it.

Well, on to other things now. I'm going to see about getting some kind of science/computational gig. As I mentioned before, I'd been hoping for a big change in my work life. But feeling thoroughly chastened now, I think I'll try to figure out a way to make use of the skills I do have.

 

[simco]

There is another issue I wanted to document in this journal. I'm kind of chagrined to be writing this.

Somehow I've let myself start into regular kratom use. I'm not doing a lot (5-10g day), but for a couple weeks I've been doing it daily, a no good can come of this. I know I need to stop and that stopping is only going to get harder the longer I wait.

I started, ostensibly, when I was looking for jobs about a month ago. I couldn't smoke cannabis for fear of employer drug testing. And I felt like I 'needed' something to get my head straight. But I also think that was an excuse. Deep down, I was very curious about kratom--I wondered if it might give me a taste of what I still miss so much about opioids. Really the answer is no...but I guess it's sorta kinda similar, and that seems to be enough to have gotten me pretty interested in it.

One of the insidious things I'm finding about kratom is that it's very easy to rationalize using it. Between being legal and being very mild in its effect, I find myself convinced each day that it's fine and not a problem. And for some people it might not be problematic. But for me, I can already feel its pull, from a psychological standpoint (I haven't tested if I'm in for any physical WDs). Worse, I could *easily* see wanting to graduate from kratom back onto opioids.

I feel like I opened a Pandora's box here.

Well, time to get my shit together to get this under control. Not sure how I'm going to do it. But this has to get back out of bounds for me ASAP.

 

[Stargazer]

Sim-

??- Yay!!! Last day of retail!! Indeed it is very difficult!!! I'm happy for you. I like the idea of part-time and distance w your old job. For some crazy reason ( like reading your thread and posts)-I don't believe mindless is for you Goddammit. It's frustrating. I'm not capable of mindless either. It pisses me off. Lol.

If the other job sounds good--and doesn't cause stress--then who knows? Maybe it will be great. I wish you luck w your interview!

OK-on a very serious note-it sounds like the Kratom isn't a good idea. You seem to already know this in your heart. I'm concerned also about you graduating back to dope. We both know how deep this runs. And how damn excruciating it is to stop. I don't think you have enough distance from dope yet. Even w 9 months.

My experience w Kratom is it sucked. It makes me really anxious and does not help w/d. I also find the ingestion difficult and nauseating. And it also causes nausea for hours. But, obviously, we're all different and others love it.

You know what's best and I trust that. Stay calm about it. You can taper down-as we know-there's plenty of info on tapering Kratom.

Sim, it would break my heart if this lead you back to this insanity I'm going through. It's not worth it. You have worked so hard and come so far. Maybe after employment is figured out you can go back to smoking weed.

I'm here for you.

 

[simco]

^^
Thanks, so much, 10years!

Yes, the kratom is a terrible idea. I know it is. I have no doubt that this will go to bad places if I don't head it off.

I thought about it a lot yesterday, and I'm going to take today off. Hopefully I can succeed at that, and hopefully I'll be able to skip it tomorrow too, etc. But for now, I'm simply going to concentrate on staying away from it today. One day at a time, and all that jazz.

It freaked me out how quickly some of my old mindset came back to me with this. My attitude towards measuring it out, prepping it and doing it was just like it used to be when I was using heroin--feeling very possessive and secretive about my little rituals. Which is weird since the effect is negligible compared to dope. Nevertheless, there those thoughts and drives were.

10years, you're a great friend...really. I'll probably post on here a few times today...I'll definitely post if I bail and do a bunch of kratom. But I'm hopeful that I can make it to bed without. Thanks again for being so kind. Wishing you the best.

Sim

 

[simco]

I just brewed up a big mug of kratom tea thanks to a healthy dose of telling myself "fuck it, it doesn't matter, you're going to do it anyway." But I did talk myself down and I ended up pouring the tea down the sink without touching it.

Don't know where all these compulsions came from. I had been almost free of cravings for several months. Somehow, moving seems to have kicked the hornets' nest; it was soon after arriving in my new town that I started thinking about getting high again.

Well, check-in #1 of the day.

 

[simco]

Late afternoon and things are better than they were a few hours ago. After lunch I had a bit of a gloomfest, worrying that I'd fucked up my recovery and that I was in for some kind of awful WD from stupid kratom.

I do feel a LITTLE bit of withdrawal--upset stomach, yawning, anxiety. But I'm pretty sure it's psychosomatic. It was a pretty brief flirtation w me and m speciosa. Unless my previous detoxes predispose me to it, I'm still hopeful i won't get too sick.

All in all though, this sure was a wake up call. I really thought that I could be a kratom tourist. Just do a little every now and then. But it really amped up my cravings for stronger things, and pretty soon, I felt like daily kratom was the thing keeping on the right side of a relapse.

It's time for me to hunker down and get back I touch with what I'm about. I haven't been to an NA meeting in a month. Probably a good idea to go through their liturgy again. Time to get back to journaling and really working on recovery.

Hopefully my next checkin will be from an ok place.

 

[Stargazer]

Hey Sim- how are you doing buddy? I hope your're hanging in there - good job on pouring the tea down the sink. That takes so much doesn't it?!

During my 1.5yrs clean-I was having a bad cravings day and wanted to call this guy I knew that could get me dope if I wanted. Someone talked me into deleting his number/--which I painfully did. And the person asked me afterward "Don't you feel so much better?" Actually no. I didn't feel better at the moment. I tried to push "delete contact" three times before I actually did. Then felt sad for a few hours. It takes time to for your thinking to catch up. It definately was a great thing to do But my mind was still struggling.

It amazed me after 1.5 yrs clean how quickly my chipping escalated. At first, it was 3 5mg percocet a couple times a week, pieces of a sub a few times a week, to the obvious. IV h a couple times a month-next its going to be dope every day. It's easy to "graduate" and swift.

Your attitude is perfect re Kratom. One day at a time. I can see how it would most definately ramp up cravings. After IV H ? Yeah. What is it about moving that's stirring your cravings? Yes, go to an NA meeting. If for nothing other than distracting yourself for an hour. Or you could be needed by someone else. I wish you were at my NA meetings. You have so much to offer other addicts. We love you Sim.

 

[Stargazer]

dreamflyer - it's bananas how things shift! And in such a short time. Hope you're having a good day ?

 

[tired of crap]

"fuck it, it doesn't matter, you're going to do it anyway." .

This has lead to more relapses for me than anything else.
Yesterday was a tough day for me as well but I also managed to avoid grabbing a drink. Props brother.
Must have been something in the air (which makes me think of In the Air Tonight by Phil Collins - haha I dont even listen to that kinda music).

I am to move at the end of the month myself. Im learning moving is an emotion filled transition - scary, exciting, challenging, etc, etc. And given my propensity to escape challenging emotions for the past, oh I dunno, decade, it is bringing back cravings I havent had in over 2 months. Even relapsed (not sure I like that word but words only have the power we assign them, right?) last week, all week. But I feel like so long as we can learn from our failures, they arent a bad thing. And I did. This week has a totally different vibe. Im back to "what Im about" as you say.

Hope today is better for you.
Stay strong.

 

[simco]

Thanks for dropping by, 10years, dreamflyer and TOC. It means a lot to hear your takes on this stuff. To me, the worst feeling is being alone in a problem. Nobody IRL knows I started doing kratom, and it took a big load off my mind to feel a little less isolated.

It's now about 48 hrs since I had my last kratom dose.

I'm happy to say that I feel OK. The WD-like feelings I had yesterday were, I think, not real...just me being nervous and suggestible. I took some loperamide last night and my belly feels fine now. I'm nervous about making it through another day without kratom, but other than that the anxiety is down too. All in all, I think the ~3 weeks I was doing kratom wasn't enough for me to get physically dependent on it, despite my past heroin withdrawals.

Psychologically, I'll have to wait and see how intense things are. Yesterday was tough. I imagine today will be tough, too. I'm going to try to hit a meeting at noon today.

It blows me away how fast and hard this all came up on me. I remember this from my last replapse, too, coming up on a year ago...I used for maybe a week that time and I got as deep into it as ever. This time--with the kratom--got momentum in a flash, as well. Like 10years was saying...when I first started with dope, I was able to chip for like a year without things ballooning up. But over the years, that capacity seems to have vanished.

 

[tired of crap]

Although Im not "alone" per say IRL I feel isolate too because other than my ex I dont have anyone I can really talk to about my addiction, family or friend. And although Ive never tried a meeting, Ill be presumptuous and say they arent for me (I still use other drugs - albeit "responsibly"). So thats why I post here - you folks understand me haha.
I find journaling helps to, like you mentioned.
..
I too jumped right back in myself last week without skipping a beat.
For me I feel like its two fold (though its likely more multifaceted than Im giving it credit for).
1 Im a creature of habit and I spent 10 years developing these crap habits. So when I fall back on them only a year of trying to change them 10 years wins.
2 If Im low enough where I feel I need to drink there's no way Im going to do it half way, not at that point. Which leads right back into 1.

I know today may be tough but thats ok, it'll put hair on your chest (haha what?).
Personally, I try not to look too far ahead. One breath at a time (is all I can manage sometimes).

Much love