Ego Death: Can You Be Who You Want To Be?

[cdin]

To reply to pupnik: There is none. I was advocating the OP get Loaded and Cool it Down. If I could go back and speak to 18yr old me, I would definitely tell him not to rush for every experience, or try to force them. I expect 18yo me would tell me to fuck right off.

 

[Killbook]

To reply to pupnik: There is none. I was advocating the OP get Loaded and Cool it Down. If I could go back and speak to 18yr old me, I would definitely tell him not to rush for every experience, or try to force them. I expect 18yo me would tell me to fuck right off.

Last night I was thinking that even if this doesn't work, my experience doing this has helped me grow so much. I'm 19 years old and I feel like I'm becoming way more mature because of this. If there was one experience I would like to rush, it would be this. For even if such a thing is futile, it seems like with it being futile, it is definitely still taking me on a path that is what I want. I could do what I'm doing until I become who I want to be but at this rate, it will just take a really long time. I kind of just want it to happen now. I still got so much time so it's like what's the rush, I know. But if I take my time, do I really care about it that much? And if I don't care about it as much as I want it, do I deserve it?

 

[pupnik]

If you can learn to relax you will advance beyond your years
this one thing is the most drastic thing.
anything else you chase is empty

 

[cdin]

If you can learn to relax you will advance beyond your years this one thing is the most drastic thing. anything else you chase is empty

yeah. And furthermore, I would say, for myself, although I certainly gained maturity - that carries with it a certain world-weariness that is super hard to shake. I mean, physically, mentally - I feel like a 55 year old man at 33. Live fast/die young/short path only works if - you succeed, you die, or you go GENUINELY forever mad. These are, statistically speaking, remote possibilites. The reality is you'll probably fuck up your body and mind and end up "in between" for a long time. I've watched a few friends pass on in old age after thinking/living like they wouldn't live past 30, it didn't wind up pretty. I want to keep my feet, be able to squat and laugh. I work on that now. I second pupnik - now I'm trying to work on patience and observation!

 

[Killbook]

Thank you, everyone. You have given me a lot to think about. I will provide a trip report or some sort of documentation as to whether this works or not. I'm very scared because I know I'm not in a good place to be doing this at all and I'm scared of the things I have been repressing and the shrooms bringing it to face value. I've never done shrooms so I'm not sure what it's like but if it's anything like weed, this is going to give me a rocky experience. I hope I don't lose my mind or something on this trip. We will see what happens. Hopefully, that worst that will happen is that it doesn't work. I'm about to spend this whole week self-reflecting and finishing my document and do this this weekend. If I can figure out what drives me and stuff like that, I can probably manipulate myself to the point that this does work in some sort of fashion.

 

[cdin]

BE SAFE! Have a sitter. TRY not to traumatize yourself, and, if it doesn't work how you would want, don't keep blasting your head open looking for a result that you're not going to find. And report back pls! Good luck, godspeed.

 

[pupnik]

--------- If I can figure out what drives me and stuff like that, I can probably manipulate myself to the point that this does work in some sort of fashion.

what part of letting things be naturally includes self manipulation?

 

[Killbook]

Everything will happen the way it's supposed to happen. If I fail or if I succeed, the end result will be the same as it was intended to be. That's where the naturality comes in.

 

[Halif2]

Everything will happen the way it's supposed to happen.

How do you think you'll feel if the experiment is a failure? Also, how will you know whether it was successful or not? Do you imagine it will be an instantaneous thing?

As I've said before, I wish you all the very best and am interested to hear how you go with it all.

 

[pupnik]

Everything will happen the way it's supposed to happen. If I fail or if I succeed, the end result will be the same as it was intended to be. That's where the naturality comes in.

this is fatalistic bunk.
not in the least related to observing nature.
and it is not about if you fail or succeed it is in how you fail or succeed.
i.e. your way all the way through all of the process, including this thread,
not the marks you get when it's over,
not about pleasing the teacher.

obviously I am not a supporter of your approach so far.

 

[Killbook]

How do you think you'll feel if the experiment is a failure? Also, how will you know whether it was successful or not? Do you imagine it will be an instantaneous thing?

As I've said before, I wish you all the very best and am interested to hear how you go with it all.

If I fail, I will be really depressed but knowing me, I will just try to work hard to fix it. But honestly, I will fall into deep depression. But, maybe that depression will place me in a point of my life that is where I need to be because I'll probably be searching for answers--again. The way I will know if I succeeded is simply through documentation. I want to avoid risk of remembering too much of who I once was so I'll just have my friend upload my documentation for me. It'll most likely be either a voice recording or a video recording. I have to find a camera for that. In my head, my hopes is that this will become instantaneously. However, if it does not, no matter. As long as I become the person I want to be and I'm hoping that tripping will get me the motivation to become that. Somehow, tripping has a weird way of attaching my heart to my mind. We will see this weekend which is when I'm tripping.

 

[Xorkoth]

Expecting instantaneous results for something like this is going to lead to disappointment, I suspect.

 

[Killbook]

this is fatalistic bunk.
not in the least related to observing nature.
and it is not about if you fail or succeed it is in how you fail or succeed.
i.e. your way all the way through all of the process, including this thread,
not the marks you get when it's over,
not about pleasing the teacher.

Well, I mean that is my view on the world. I believe we live in a deterministic world so I guess that plays a big part in my mind when thinking about all of this. When I said naturality, I meant not nature, but what is pure to the world. To you all, it is about how I fail or succeed since this is a big experiment more or less for the rest of the world. But this is my life. I am going through some things and this is my way of trying to escape, fix, change and or overcome this. So this is about whether I fail or succeed for me. Because that will determine how my life goes on for me. The results of this 'experiment' will have such a big result on my life. Will it be negative or positive? Will it fail or succeed? Where will it put me? As far as I can see, this is a unsafe experiment with consequences as well as rewards, yes. That is what has been enough to alarm some people I've talked to about this. As far as the reasoning that has gone into coming up with this, I think there is a fair amount. I think all that I'm doing is just utilizing the system that I am living with/in.

obviously I am not a supporter of your approach so far.

All in all, it's alright if you don't support it. It's what I expected. I'm not going to be necessarily talked out of this, but oppositions will give me more to think about when approaching this; which is what it has done so far; which is one of the reasons why I asked for people's input. You all know more than me and have more experiences than me and your input is much appreciated and has honestly helped me so far as to figuring out some things. I'm not one to usually not cover most of his bases, but I am subject to let a few things slip by me that you guys have shed light on. I just don't want to discourage people from their feedback. Your input, whether supporting or not, is appreciated. It saves me from ignorance in my approach. But great people have been told they're crazy and that something they wanted to do would never work and it did. I guess we will see with this.

 

[Killbook]

Expecting instantaneous results for something like this is going to lead to disappointment, I suspect.

I'm prepared for it, honestly. Whatever happens, happens the way it was intended to. I am prepared to be disappointed but only because that disappointment may lead me on the path I should be on. I am a person whose thinking is based on logic and reasoning most of the time, but I know that no matter what, I won't be thinking that way. It's all because of the same reason I'm doing this. And so, if it does not work, while I can argue with myself with logic that I should not be/feel a certain way, it just won't work. I will feel the emotions that I just can't argue away this time. And through those emotions, will come the rash actions that I have been action upon lately. And through those rash actions, I will be who I was meant to be. Who I am meant to be is unchangeable. The path in which I become that person is. It is my free-will to chose that path, but I'm not going to change what cannot be changed. This takes away some of the disappointment but no matter what, I will still be disappointed because that thought won't take away it all. However, I am prepared for it, and whatever else happens, because of this thinking.

 

[pupnik]

there is no "meant to be"

we are all writing our own stories as we go, it was not written!!!
that attitude is not beneficial at any depth, it is a white wash, a way to keep talking without saying anything, a way to keep an audience.

at least you know this about your self "...that I just can't argue away", i.e. - a very strong tendency to yap yap yap,
countering this can't be just left up to the medicine,
the medicine will leave your yap yap yap in place which will probably just seem even more manic.

 

[Killbook]

there is no "meant to be"

we are all writing our own stories as we go, it was not written!!!
that attitude is not beneficial at any depth, it is a white wash, a way to keep talking without saying anything, a way to keep an audience.

Well, I mean at this point we would more get into a debate about our beliefs on the world. You may think there is no meant to be but my world view is that there is. As I said, I think we live in a deterministic world. We have free-will to make decisions only for the result of those decisions to be the inevitable. I have my theories about how life works. I think our story has already been written, we are just experiencing what was and 'writing' it. But it is not 'us' who is writing it, it is 'you'. I think that attitude is very beneficial because it's what helps me get through life. I don't just let things be because even though the end result will always be the same, that doesn't mean I should do nothing with my life because I know this. I don't know what the end result is so I should make life what I want it. However, all while doing that, I know the end result is going to be the same. I'm still going to push to make life what I want it though. When I said that quote, I meant in that particular instance. Usually, I can argue away emotions that seem irrational but I can't this time.

countering this can't be just left up to the medicine

I don't just talk to talk and I don't leave this up to the drugs. I have a huge role in what I'm doing, I'm not leaving anything solely up to anything.

the medicine will leave your yap yap yap in place which will probably just seem even more manic.

To be honest, I am fully prepared to lose my mind. I'd rather lose my mind and get over this than to be sane and never move on. I am fully prepared to let this trip take me where I need to go. And no matter where this trip takes me, I am prepared. I'm okay with the places I can end up. By the way you type, you sound like one of those people who have too.

 

[Vastness]

I know this has already been said but, unfortunately, there is no way in hell this is going to work in the way that you want it to.

I even think it has the potential to have quite a negative effect because if I understand it correctly the process by which you hope to enact this unrealistically fantastical transformation is basically going over everything about yourself that you don't like, and then going over everything that you wish that you were (and currently are not). This kind of thorough self-critical introspection is a recipe for a psychedelic disaster.

You talk about not wanting to even remember the person you used to be, I don't see how you can believe that this is possible. While personally I do believe that at some level human consciousness is essentially just software, we do not currently have the ability to rewrite, edit and delete parts of our personalities like they were computer programs. Our consciousness is heavily tied in to the physical organisation of neurons in the brain, and the level of change that you are hoping to effect would likely require extensive reorganisation of your neural pathways with a precision and rapidity that again, is just not possible with any drug currently in existence.

I would note also that it's totally normal not to be able to "argue away" irrational emotions, our emotions arise from a deeper level of the brain, not subject to direct regulation of our frontal cortex, from which reason and most other higher brain functions arise. If negative emotions could just be argued away then, well, life might be a lot easier and plenty of mental health professionals would suddenly be out of a job. This is a hard-coded biological "limitation", if you like, of being human, and you're not going to be able to change yourself in a way that makes this not the case... although with the right approach, persistence, and time you can dampen these irrational emotional responses.

 

[Xorkoth]

although with the right approach, persistence, and time you can dampen these irrational emotional responses.

This. I have used psychedelics to help me with the process of being much more aware of my own processes, so that when I have an emotional/reflexive reaction, I step back and objectively view how I should react, and then I choose to react that way. It's been wonderful for me, but I've been using psychedelics since I was 18 and I'm 34 now and it's really been in the last few years that I started to feel like I've really made a lot of progress, and I've worked at it. Change takes work, if you're looking for a magic bullet, you're not going to find out because change takes intention and perseverance, it doesn't just happen. Such a pursuit is attempting change without doing real work to get there. Change comes from understanding and repetition, not from a single psychedelic experience.

 

[cdin]

I second the last two posters. What we're talking about as far as your routines, personality etc. is not just brain 'software' and you can't just 'format' your way out of the problem. Consciousness etc. has its roots in your personal anatomy. There are only two ways I know of to deal with this : alter your responses/inputs to various patterns consciously and over time create new, better behaviors and conditioning (as orkoth and I are recommending), or a prefrontal lobotomy. The problem here is, as vastness points out, one of physiology. And there's not an agent we know of capable of creating the type of change you are after instantaneously. Also - how are you expecting to not remember yourself? As I said in a previous post - CIA scientists who put people under for months on end on ket and l playing tape loops/isolation etc. was not enough to make people fully forget themselves. Even the most programmed mkUltra subjects at least bore some lasting scar of the trauma that occurred, if not outright just remembering who they are/what happened etc. Trust me, I hated myself for a while and there wasn't enough ... anything... on the planet to do the job. If I may be so bold - what sort of a dosing schedule/what things are you intending to use for this purpose? That would give me enough information right now to tell you if you can just skip the feeling weird for a few days and go straight to deep depression. forum is broke, or i would make this paragraphs.

 

[cdin]

I think you said you were going to go for it this weekend. It's sunday, I hope you're ok. I am super interested to know what you attempted(or were going to attempt) this with.