Ecstasy and Christianity

[ro4eva]

I have to add one more thing, seeing that this thread has already wandered pretty far offtopic anyway. I hope this doesn't sound too condescending, but as somebody who was never religiously inclined, I can't help but wonder, why would you even *want* to believe in a deity that condems you for something that you know yourself not to be wrong. You mentioned your confusion about it being sinful to even look at the female form with admiration and I have to agree. Why would a deity make us want it and then punish us for seeking it out? The only deity I can imagine doing so would be a very cruel one. As humans we have our own moral compass and it would be a shame not to use it. I mean, it could very well happen that after my death I am confronted by god looking at me disappointed and saying "Well tokezu, I think I made it very clear that it was the SATURDAY, on which you are not allowed to work! Off to hell you go.", but I sincerely hope I would have the courage to tell him that there are much more important things than that.

That's a good question.

My personal, honest to God view on the matter is that I truly feel that there is something out there observing us. Whether that "something" is one entity or more, I obviously don't know. Not to sound like some ufo conspiracy nut (which I really am not), but I refuse to believe that we're all alone in our universe. And so this is a major part of why I persist.

That being said, when it comes to the Bible, I've actually had a chance over the past few years to study it, and I've come to one fundamental conclusion above all else: mankind's flawed, biased hands have been all over it since its inception nearly 2,000 years ago. In its current form, it is full of contradictions, and there is much evidence which strongly suggests it has been edited constantly to suit the needs of those whom wielded the power to make changes without being accused of heresy and burned at the stake.

Not only that, its origins are questionable. For example, according to what is known about its origins, the Bible was originally written in three languages: Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. Now, when Jesus Christ and his 12 disciples (actually there was over 70 of them) were alive, they spoke in Aramaic according to the writings of scholars living at the time. And that's a real problem.

Why?

The first four books of the New Testament - which are Matthew, Mark, Luke and John respectively - were originally written in Greek. And furthermore, available evidence allegedly shows that these 4 books were written around ~85 A.D. And apparently none of these four apostles were able to speak (let alone write) in Greek. Yet even if any of them actually did speak this language, they had already passed away by the time the four aforementioned books were first written, which suggests that someone else wrote them entirely.

Enough about the history lesson, sorry.

Is there a God? If there is, it appears he has turned his back on us (then again, who can blame him).

Do I believe there is a God? In a manner of speaking, yes. Whether or not "God" is simply my conscience and nothing more is in my opinion irrelevant next to the fact that I believe I am a decent human being who does what he can to ensure no one is harmed by his actions. And I also firmly believe that decent human beings come from all religions or lack there of, and what is important is that they are happy in the end.

What I'm trying to say is that I know men and women from different religions or lack there of whom are good, decent human beings because their conscience transcends religious views; they know right from wrong without having to bring religion into it. And I'd rather associate with such people regardless of what they believe. I feel better spending time with such individuals than I do with many hardcore evangelical Christians (whom I've been harshly judged, condemned and threatened by more so than anyone else representing any other religion or lack there of), I'm sorry to say.

If I'm not making much sense, then I apologize - I tried. "God" is something which I am still... it's a work in progress... I have no concrete answers, and I'm definitely keeping an open mind while at the same time trying my best to not be prejudiced or biased.

Edit - Regardless of whether I believe there's a sky God watching my every move or not, I'd hope above all else that others who are aware of my views in this case do not allow it to influence their own views about me, because it sure as hell is not something I obsess over or ever attempt to use against someone (e.g. Bible thumping). I sort of wished this thread would fade into obscurity to be honest - it has felt like a bad idea from the start. And so if I do not post anymore in it, this would be the reason why, good day.

 

[ro4eva]

Does that help add to the conversation?

Thank you for your input.

It has been some time since I first started this thread, and I'm happy to report that I've made a lot of progress with respect to settling my differences with family members, and I don't consider it an issue anymore. We've come a long way and I'm actually looking to put this whole thing behind me including this thread.

I hope you manage to make some significant progress with respect to whatever it is that torments you.

Sincerely,

Sam (ro4eva)

And Happy New Year!

 

[tokezu]

Whether or not "God" is simply my conscience and nothing more is in my opinion irrelevant next to the fact that I believe I am a decent human being who does what he can to ensure no one is harmed by his actions. And I also firmly believe that decent human beings come from all religions or lack there of, and what is important is that they are happy in the end.

I totally agree, that is pretty much the view I hold too. If there is a (benevolent) god, it would only make sense that he judges us by our actions. The fact that one is a decent human being is what counts, whether someones reason to behave that way was the golden rule, belief in karma or the categorical imperative would be irrelevant.
I asked about "Why would you want to believe", because I think for some people it might be helpful to think about that question in the sense of "If I could consciously choose, would I want to believe in (this kind of) god?" Because when it comes to that image of god as someone petty, who keeps tabs on all our little missteps, to hold them under our nose with a smirk once we're dead, I have the feeling most people wouldn't *want* to believe that. They believe it, because they just can't stop believing it. It's imo religious education/indoctrination based on scare tactics that leads to this, basically teaching children not a hope that god exists, but essentially a fear that he does.

I sort of wished this thread would fade into obscurity to be honest - it has felt like a bad idea from the start. And so if I do not post anymore in it, this would be the reason why, good day.

Oops... sorry about that. We shall let it fade into obscurity once again.

 

[ro4eva]

Oops... sorry about that. We shall let it fade into obscurity once again.

It is I who should be sorry.

Unfortunately I immediately recoiled when I first read your post because I was concerned that you were trying to put me on the spot, so to speak (which I've found to be rather uncomfortable when it concerns my religious views). But now I realize I overreacted, and thus it is I who am sorry for not letting my guard down.

Not that I'm asking for any pity and such, but being raised in a strictly conservative Christian household, where nearly every weekend I was forcibly dragged into a church mired in a toxic psychological environment has had a lasting impression on me. More specifically, I slowly but surely amassed an extensive history of first hand experience with what I can only define as bona fide religious bigotry - the cause of which, due in large part, was because I was infamously known as the non-conformist black sheep in my family who asked too many questions. These memories which I'd love to have erased from my brain have shaped my personality into that of an individual who promptly assumes a defensive posturing whenever he takes part in discussing his place in what is understandably a controversial topic.

I am happy to note that many years spent away from such influences has mended my mind, body and (assuming there is such a thing) soul. And as much as I used to hate them for forcing me to go to that poor example of a place of worship, I've come to love my parents with all my heart, for I have no doubts that their intentions (though misguided IMO) were purely good. And I even get a laugh out of the irony which is that, in order for our relationship to improve, time away from church is what was seemingly required (and I believe they have acknowledged this as well).

So again, I sincerely apologize for assuming that your intentions were to bust my chops before I even gave you a chance to thoroughly explain yourself. It is something I openly struggle with (particularly when it involves religion/religious views), and also one which I am striving to improve with each passing day.

In case I don't hear from you again before this month is out, I hope you had a Merry Christmas, and I wish you a happy new year's eve celebration. And thank you for your sympathy and support, ciao for now :D