Ecstasy and Christianity

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

I'm very interested.

Give this a look:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12351924

Here. Believe it or not, one of the primary motives that animated me to (non-weed, -booze, etc.) drug use and amateur pharmacologic scholarship was a vague intuition that these substances offered me something that I simply could not or would not find elsewhere. To make a long story short, my experimentation proved disappointing in the first analysis and disastrous in the last. I'm still paying the price to this day. The first time I touched a hallucinogen, I was 15 years old. The last time: 16. My life hasn't really been quite the same since then, and I can't say that the change was for the better.

Funny, hallucinogens and (especially) dissociatives have shown me some pretty profound things and at times been difficult and disillusioning, but they've never left me with the feeling -- either fleeting or lasting -- that life devoid of inherent meaning or anything transcendent. If anything, these drugs have shown me that my separateness ("every man is an island") might be entirely illusory, and that this world may very well be just teeming with beings and phenomena that our everyday human minds just aren't tuned to receive. Now granted I first used a hallucinogen well into my 20s, so maybe being at a different stage in life has something to do with it.

Before I take any hallucinogen, or dissociative at visionary doses, I always set my intention to be open to possibilities beyond the ordinary, and ask for the blessing and guidance of any sentient beings not of my material world, who may become visible or in some other way available to me in the course of my journey. This is an important part of set and setting, as setting one's intentions for a trip is just healthy practice. I'm plenty aware that this property of the drug experience invalidates its use as evidence for the supernatural, since it's impossible to separate what I'm bringing to the table from what the drug (or anyone or anything else) is bringing. The same can be said about sought-after mystical experience that has nothing to do with drugs, or even age-old big philosophical questions that remain stubbornly unsettled and just lead to more questions: it all comes down to what you the beholder and partaker find truly convincing. Some are capable of making a leap of faith and hold out hope that there's truly something beyond-this-world at work. For others, the lure of explanation that's mundane and perfectly consistent with all we know for certain is just too strong to resist, or feels imprudent.

I can say with certainty that I have never gone into a drug experience with the intention of conducting a test, be that an empirical analysis of my own mind and cognition, or of the ability of the world to meet my preconceived beliefs about it, or anything else. I have never taken anything hallucinogenic with the assumption that I'm going in free of assumptions, just ready for whatever the drug's got to show me. I don't think bringing nothing in the way of preconceptions, assumptions, or intentions to a drug experience is even possible, so it's a factor I'd rather exercise some control over, for the sake of my mental health. Abdicating this is just daring the drug to dredge up something from your subconscious that you're not prepared to deal with.

I would not recommend anyone, especially an impressionable youth, take a hallucinogen with a desperate plea to be shown some sort of meaning in life. Only someone highly suspicious (and potentially despairing) that there isn't inherent meaning to life would even set such an intention, especially hastily. That suppressed suspicion is likely to rear its ugly head during the drug experience.

Well yes, but can you easily articulate why you find this so appalling?

Maybe I've watched too many self-published documentaries made by philosophical globetrotting bohemians, but I always thought there were a multitude of answers to the question of life's meaning, some affirming it, some negating it, and some just surprising in their ingenuity in such a way that makes you smile. And that's not really what I saw represented there. It's analogous to my frustration with the Freemasons -- I can see Masonic principles being compatible with, if not transcendent of, social and political beliefs. So where are all the Masons who aren't conservatives?

There exists an entire (and yes, admittedly, relatively new) philosophical tradition built near-entirely around the pursuit of redemptive meaning and purpose in a world seemingly devoid of those qualities. Broadly, people tend to refer to this characteristically heterogeneous school as existentialism. You may find the attempts of these thinkers to reconcile a life of beauty, reason, and passion with the 'consensus' to which you referred above to be ineffectual or even contemptible - but that doesn't mean that such traditions and forms of literature do not exist, or stand in mutually-assured-destruction, matter-antimatter relationships with the 'spiritual' as such. Agreed, existentialism has little to say re. the supernatural, which you and I agreed in another thread was a key ingredient of a truly 'spiritual' worldview. But the kind of spiritual poverty that you perceive in the above 'consensus' has little to do with supernatural ideas, and much more to do with a sense of transcendent agency and purpose in living.

Good points. Not all existentialists are/were unbelievers. But the believers among them will readily admit that fathoming the Almighty's plan is downright maddening.

Personally, I'd welcome an overarching plan for humanity and/or my life that was entirely natural (a la The Matrix) over being a pointless random accident. I recognize that this is the appeal (and indeed my attraction to) UFOlogy and other sci-fi-ish scenarios, and conspiracy theories. I don't give these kinds of phenomena unbridled credence by any means, and can readily see that most such claims are not worth a second look. But I'm an armchair follower of such things with great joy, and the minority of cases that really leave me stumped make it all worthwhile. This includes one paranormal experience I had personally, that no one I've shared it with can explain.

 

[P A]

@MDAO

Thanks for the link.

Funny, hallucinogens and (especially) dissociatives have shown me some pretty profound things and at times been difficult and disillusioning, but they've never left me with the feeling -- either fleeting or lasting -- that life devoid of inherent meaning or anything transcendent.

That wasn't exactly my point. Whether or not these drugs educe spiritually transformative experiences, my juvenile and over-zealous experimentation endangered terrible consequences. My beliefs (or, to be more precise, my general lack thereof) re. life, meaning, and redemptive value are basically unrelated to my experiences whilst under the influence of psychoactive drugs. May I be so bold as to suggest that this is a good thing?

At any rate, I was just chiming in as a lone voice in the (ostensible) void that you were addressing when you asked "Where are all the drug-seeking seekers of the world?"

but I always thought there were a multitude of answers to the question of life's meaning

Well sure, but like any set of answers to just about any fathomable question, some answers will be inherently more emotionally satisfying and/or logically sound than others. I try to shoot for both in equal measure; when such an ideal proportion proves supremely difficult or impossible, I typically favor the latter quality over the former. See below.

I hope I don't sound too crude when I intone that no matter how imponderably monstrous the haystack appears to be, there may only be that lone needle waiting to be uncovered.

I'm an armchair follower of such things with great joy, and the minority of cases that really leave me stumped make it all worthwhile.

Another essential difference between you and me has just been made clear: In the process of adopting an attitude, holding a belief, or accepting a proposition, you lean heavily in the direction of "I hope/wish that X is/was true" as opposed to "This is what seems to be true, irrespective of my feelings on the matter." Now, I do not and would never advocate taking an affectless view of the world and humanity - but, for lack of a better word, it really disappoints me whenever a clearly intelligent person espouses enthusiasm for such patently daffy ideas as the 'paranormal' or UFOs, tenuous support of which can only be achieved by deliberate misrepresentation, serious logical errors, or sophistry. It's not the rigid strictures of ideological dogma that keep me from buying this stuff (not that you implied that this was case) - it's just good old fashioned sober analysis that holds the nonsense at bay, a process that is roughly in keeping with the handy cognitive methods that I use to find my missing car keys, play a video game, write an essay, or construct a mathematical proof. Perhaps there are many people who find such forms of reasoning to be wholly inadequate in rare instances. I (personally, PA) have yet to encounter one such instance.

Now, to be clear, I'm not arguing with you; I just can't understand how someone with such omnivorous curiosity and a career in a pragmatic/scientific discipline could possibly retain such avid interest in the paranormal without periodically engendering a state of severe cognitive dissonance.

 

[P A]

Now granted I first used a hallucinogen well into my 20s, so maybe being at a different stage in life has something to do with it.

If there was any single thing in my life that I could change, it would probably be the age at which I began ingesting powerfully mind-altering drugs. You clearly had the right idea, and quite a lot of restraint. I had neither.

...I would not recommend anyone, especially an impressionable youth, take a hallucinogen with a desperate plea to be shown some sort of meaning in life.

I can say with certainty that I have never gone into a drug experience with the intention of conducting a test, be that an empirical analysis of my own mind and cognition, or of the ability of the world to meet my preconceived beliefs about it, or anything else

Believe it or not, neither have I, strictly speaking. Most of psychedelic/dissociative trips were either entered blindly, blunderingly, or reasonably open-mindedly. In short, I didn't ever enter a trip with any particular goals or intentions in mind, nor did I set out to conduct any pseudo-scientific 'acid-tests' for posterity.

Abdicating this is just daring the drug to dredge up something from your subconscious that you're not prepared to deal with.

Interestingly enough, when this sort of thing did occur, I proved (surprisingly, to me) unusually adroit, and capable of such feats of mental gymnastics that I grew to feel 'prepared for anything,' eventually to my great detriment. If you are at all curious: My protracted love-affair with hallucinogens was cut violently short one fateful Summer evening, over the course of which I orally ingested a colossal quantity of dusty, moldy brick weed (>3 grams, an unprecedented quantity for me) and an unknown amount of racemic amphetamine. What ensued was a powerfully hallucinatory, ~10-hour panic attack-like state with some features of psychosis and/or delirium. I have yet to fully recover; it has been many years.

 

[Ninae]

1 Corinthians 6:19-20; NKJV [emphasis mine]


However, all Bible verses and conservatism aside, I earnestly suggest that you consider why exactly you would turn to the Christian deity in particular for insight on any practical issue, ever. Why not Zeus? Why not Mithra? Why not Baal? Why not Satan? I say this not as a frothy-mouthed internet crusader for so-called 'secular humanism,' but as someone who would genuinely prefer to hear that your apparently benign, helpful pastime wasn't derailed for abstract reasons.

Interesting you should say that. I also grew up disliking Christianity and found it completely uninspirering, but after I had achieced more of a personal connection with the spiritual world, I realised it's just one other way of connecting with God/spirituaity and that Jesus is very underrated as a spiritual leader (because of the way he is represented).

And I think that although the Christian church might for a large part be a place for mindless sheep who can't think for themselves and doesn't have that much to offer when it comes to excitement or pleasure (compared to some modern spiritual systems, for instance), it can be a great place for those who are naturally spiritual and don't need so much external guidance.

I have seen some examples of these finding great spiritual fulfillment there, although this is a bit hard to understand for me, but I think it's just that they needed so little stimulation to have those experiences. Those who are the most strongly spiritual don't really seem to need the kind of external support most of us do.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

^ Wow dude, that's a hard way to learn that these things are tools, not toys. I sincerely hope someday, somehow, you are able to integrate and be at peace with that experience.

I didn't mean to put words in your mouth when I talked about teens losing all sense of meaning and purpose after a psychedelic experience. I guess I just assumed that's what you were referring to because I've heard many people in Psychedelic Drugs say that that was their experience.

Sorry to disappoint you with my interest in the paranormal. I agree with you that most of the stories I've heard or read in this genre have nothing going for them, and I'm able to see that clearly. But I do not have it in me to categorically reject the very possibility of otherworldly phenomena intruding into our world and potentially redefining humanity's place in the universe. When I read this kind of stuff, it's like panning for gold -- I fully expect most of what lands in my pan to be worthless grains of dirt.

As I said before, I live for those rare reports of encounters with the extraordinary that truly defy easy explanation or dismissal, for those rabbit holes that have no bottom that anyone can see. Oh how happy I man I would die if I ever experienced something highly otherwordly that left my reason and intellect wholly intact, but made me a full believer beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I'm sorry if this all strikes you as unbefitting someone with a good head on his shoulders. You're hardly the only one to receive me this way, such that I tend to suppress this interest in a lot of the company I keep, much like my interest in drugs. Being secretive is something I'm quite practiced at.

Read my response to rangrz a few posts back if you want a good explanation of where science, something I do sincerely love, fits into my world. It's not cognitive dissonance so much as horses for courses. Though I love science for its ability to shed light on problems and in so doing alleviate human suffering, I really do love a good unsolved, and seemingly unsolvable, mystery. I'm highly comfortable with ambiguity and things cryptic. The prospect of a day when essentially every aspect of the human condition is explained and settled beyond any reasonable doubt, where there's absolutely no room for novel and alternate takes on reality, is not any world I'd want to live in. A mystery doesn't lose value, or my interest, the more it resists solving, IMHO. It's the room for imagination that their unsolved state opens up that makes a lot of mysteries worthwhile.

Maybe I'm odd, but this appetite for awe in the face of seemingly unsolvable mystery overrides any masculine-brained drive I may have to be a thorough and accurate understander of systems, at least when it comes to questions of cosmic (as opposed to mundane) importance.

 

[AminoAcid]

Do you have church raves like these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlZpSd2lRJQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDrutnPIuRk

:D

 

[ro4eva]

Do you have church raves like these?

Holy molly!

 

[webbykevin]

at least when it comes to questions of cosmic (as opposed to mundane) importance.

In what way are they important ?, why assume anything is important ?, isn't that just an idea too ?

 

[webbykevin]

Do you have church raves like these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlZpSd2lRJQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDrutnPIuRk

:D

I kept expecting the blues brothers to somersault down the isle.

 

[AminoAcid]

Baptazia Super Sundays baby! The only holy sacrament there is clearly a good dose of MDMA. :D

 

[ro4eva]

Te rog doamne, iarta pe copilu esta, ca nui bun.

 

[Ransom itch]

Here's my take on MDMA use and being a christian. Is it the boss of you or vice-versa? Are you psychologically dependant on it? Jesus turned water into wine and not only that made loads of it a party where already loads had been consumed.i don't like alcohol that much but love an MDMA dance every so often. Would I advertise this fact at my local church? No. And why not? I would not expect the majority to agree, the openness and honesty I would love to lead with on this matter just would not be worth the ensuing aggravation. Secondly, I would not want to cause the inevitable anxieties and troubles to 'my brothers and sisters' in the church.

 

[Ninae]

1 Corinthians 6:19-20; NKJV [emphasis mine]I earnestly suggest that you consider why exactly you would turn to the Christian deity in particular for insight on any practical issue, ever. Why not Zeus? Why not Mithra? Why not Baal? Why not Satan? I say this not as a frothy-mouthed internet crusader for so-called 'secular humanism,' but as someone who would genuinely prefer to hear that your apparently benign, helpful pastime wasn't derailed for abstract reasons.

Well, this must be the worst piece of advice I've read on here. Rather than turning to God you should consider turning to some high-ranking demons, LOL.

 

[Journyman16]

re the bible quote about your body being a temple... it is always used as an imperative to keep pure and clean, but ever seen a temple not burning incense? Seems like it's OK to add to the 'atmosphere' of a temple. :D

@ro4eva - I also began as a Pentecostal, but my path away began early on and once I was out I couldn't go back. I'm pretty sure I do not and never will believe in the biblical God and am resolved, even on my death bed, to NOT squib out and 'convert' - mainly cos I think if there WAS a God he'd see right through my actions. :D If I am headed to Hell because of it (don't believe in that either) then so be it - a Man lives by his choices and doesn't whine when things don't go his way.

So... take this with the requisite amount of NaCl... The bible is NOT the be-all and end-all of your beliefs. Jesus the Christ says your walk is a personal one, that salvation is a direct connection between you and God. That means both the pastor AND THE BIBLE are not requirements for your salvation. everything you need to do is within YOU, not what someone else says. Especially if, as a Pentecostal, you have received the Holy Spirit.

Listen to yourself, make sure you aren't 'hearing' someone else's voice as your thoughts, then go with what YOU decide is right. If you get pulled up at the Pearly Gates, you've got a case to make. Dismiss what you feel is right and live by someone else's dogma and you can expect no hearing at the gates.

Only thing about drugs... it is EASY to become subject to them. It's not in the slightest difficult to start seeing your path as requiring the drug and IMO I think that's the wrong path - wherever the drug can take you, you can learn to travel by yourself. And I think learning that IS a requirement.

 

[ro4eva]

re the bible quote about your body being a temple... it is always used as an imperative to keep pure and clean, but ever seen a temple not burning incense? Seems like it's OK to add to the 'atmosphere' of a temple. :D

@ro4eva - I also began as a Pentecostal, but my path away began early on and once I was out I couldn't go back. I'm pretty sure I do not and never will believe in the biblical God and am resolved, even on my death bed, to NOT squib out and 'convert' - mainly cos I think if there WAS a God he'd see right through my actions. :D If I am headed to Hell because of it (don't believe in that either) then so be it - a Man lives by his choices and doesn't whine when things don't go his way.

So... take this with the requisite amount of NaCl... The bible is NOT the be-all and end-all of your beliefs. Jesus the Christ says your walk is a personal one, that salvation is a direct connection between you and God. That means both the pastor AND THE BIBLE are not requirements for your salvation. everything you need to do is within YOU, not what someone else says. Especially if, as a Pentecostal, you have received the Holy Spirit.

Listen to yourself, make sure you aren't 'hearing' someone else's voice as your thoughts, then go with what YOU decide is right. If you get pulled up at the Pearly Gates, you've got a case to make. Dismiss what you feel is right and live by someone else's dogma and you can expect no hearing at the gates.

Only thing about drugs... it is EASY to become subject to them. It's not in the slightest difficult to start seeing your path as requiring the drug and IMO I think that's the wrong path - wherever the drug can take you, you can learn to travel by yourself. And I think learning that IS a requirement.

I appreciate the input, yet a lot of things regarding my spirituality have fundamentally changed since I created this thread almost 2.5 years ago. I was conflicted about MDMA use in a spiritual context, but I no longer am, and I don't care what certain family members and/or relatives - who happen to have zero firsthand experience regarding 'street drugs' - think.

Not to sound arrogant, but frankly their credibility level is too low for me to seriously consider their opinions on the topic any longer. And many of them have shown that they have no qualms about intoxicating themselves with other (legal) mind altering substances (somehow it's okay in their case). And how convenient it is that their poison is inexplicably exempt from religious condemnation.

My conscience tells me when I've done something wrong, such as breaking a man's nose in a bar fight over nothing many years ago (irrational violence on my part is the reason why I stopped drinking back in ~2009). And I feel I've done nothing wrong because I want to temporarily feel better by way of the recreational consumption of certain intoxicants (legal or controlled/illegal) in moderation and with HR in mind always.

AFAIK, I've only got one life to live. I'd rather live it in whatever moderate way that makes me happy, while at the same time respecting the rights of others. Religious, political, and bureaucratic control freaks who enjoy dictating such petty things (what plants I can and cannot possess and/or consume without their permission) can piss off.

 

[Ransom itch]

PA, you need to clear your messages, as I want to PM you with something of interest

 

[treezy z]

My spiritual view on drugs is if it harms me or makes me think bad thoughts (such as "now seems like a reasonable time to rob someone") don't do it.

For example cigarettes are against God because they are bad for you and can kill you.
Marijuana is fine, no physically harmful and doesn't fuck my life up.

Psychedelics are fine.
MDMA for me is not compatible with spirituality because I get depressed afterwards. If that's not the case then I don't see God having a problem with it.

I don't fuck with any painkillers, uppers, benzos ("hard" drugs) because that shit almost killed me, and suicide is the ultimate sin.

Keep in mind I am following a path of Christian mysticism, not organized Christianity (almost all of whom would tell you "drugs are bad.")

 

[juzeza]

Hey ro4eva,

I want to add my perspective to this conversation in hopes that it might helpful for someone, maybe even me!

Here are some sources to add to the conversation on other's positive, therapeutic experiences both recreational and clinical.

Subreddit on MDMA therapy

Subreddits on someone overcoming social anxiety from MDMA

Veteran with PTSD answers questions about MDMA therapy sessions

Video on MDMA therapy that kinda puts it into a nut shell

As for my reason for being here:

I was raised in a dysfunctional, abusive home (alcohol abuse). I mostly suffered mild emotional trauma, but I do go to Al-Anon meetings (which is like AA but for relatives of alcoholics) today to recover from what happened when I was a kid.

I got saved in 2012 in Al-Anon when I first began attending. I stopped going to meetings for a few years but found out that I still have some old, not good beliefs that stem from my childhood and I was bringing them into my relationship with God and with others (for example, manipulation, expectations, resentment for the past). I thought it was all over, but I realized I still had some work to do getting rid of old, damaging beliefs about God, life, and my self-worth. For this reason I began attending Al-Anon meetings again.

Ready to really put all this dysfunction and trauma to rest, I do some research and come to reason that I experienced a bit of trauma similar to a rape survivor or a veteran in combat and begin to research how others dealt with the trauma. I eventually came to MDMA-assisted therapy and now I'm trying to make a decision as to whether I would like to experiment with MDMA for therapeutic purposes.

There are very many factors involved, primarily: legality, safety (spiritual, physical) and ultimate cost.

As for you, the only un-solicited advice I will offer is to not base your decision upon the hypocrisy of your religious family members. That is, just because they abuse alcohol, which is legal and condoned in our society, does not justify your decision to experiment with MDMA, recreationally or otherwise. That is a poor reason to do anything. In essence, if you were to do so, you are basically arguing that their hypocrisy justifies your decision. That is never true. You have a free will and you are responsible for your decisions; not your hypocritical family and their decisions. You are giving the power of your free will over to your family to allow them to make decisions for you by believing and behaving as such.

Just know that whatever your decision, you will ultimately be held accountable. That's why it's very important that we examine ourselves and weigh the costs and try to study the Bible to figure out what exactly is the best choice of action. It's a refining of your soul, like refining gold.

As for my current perspective:

On the one hand I'm motivated to take MDMA to improve my relationship with God, myself, and others, which seems good, yes? I can feel that I have deeply held beliefs that are trapped in my mind and I'm having a hard time accessing them and re-programming them. I think using MDMA would be beneficial, but there may be sacrifices which could hurt my relationship God, that I am yet to discover. Specifically, I know how God feels about witchcraft and drugs (it's not good), but if I use a substance to revert damage on my brain that has been proven to help others to the same thing, is it wrong? My motives seem good.

On the other hand, can't God heal me? I've been supernaturally healed from a car accident and even been an agent in the healing of others, too! I'm afraid that taking drugs would insult God and rob him of the opportunity to perform another miracle.

Then again, God also works through people in my a lot! MDMA-assisted therapy doesn't sound too far fetched.

So, that's where I'm at!

Does that help add to the conversation?

 

[tokezu]

Well, this must be the worst piece of advice I've read on here. Rather than turning to God you should consider turning to some high-ranking demons, LOL.

Seen from your context they might be demons sure... but from a gnostic context for example the deity described in the OT would be considered to be some kind of a demon, really depends on the perspective doesn't it?
I think the real point of that post was to make clear that very few people have consciously chosen the religion or denomination they follow as adults. The usual way is that people are told by their parents what to believe (sadly, all too often the word "indoctrinated" would be more fitting). I don't think there is anything wrong with encouraging people to explore ideas that go beyond the tradition they were born into by pure chance, and maybe find something in the process that has more relevance to them, then the old shtick they are used to. From what little I have read from you, I really can't imagine you disagree.

Not to sound arrogant, but frankly their credibility level is too low for me to seriously consider their opinions on the topic any longer. And many of them have shown that they have no qualms about intoxicating themselves with other (legal) mind altering substances (somehow it's okay in their case). And how convenient it is that their poison is inexplicably exempt from religious condemnation.

My conscience tells me when I've done something wrong, such as breaking a man's nose in a bar fight over nothing many years ago (irrational violence on my part is the reason why I stopped drinking back in ~2009). And I feel I've done nothing wrong because I want to temporarily feel better by way of the recreational consumption of certain intoxicants (legal or controlled/illegal) in moderation and with HR in mind always.

Good for you! I had the feeling when reading your opening post, that it really wasn't so much about how to deal with god's (potential) disapproval, but with the disapproval of your family members. But anyway regarding the original question: As an agnostic I really don't have that problem, but if I try to think myself into the christian mindset, I really can't imagine that god gets all hung up on such little details as whether you put a certain substance into your body at a certain moment in time. I would think it makes much more sense, that he would be looking at the bigger picture of how your actions have affected your life and the lifes of the people around you. It's not about if you use MDMA, but how you use MDMA.

I have to add one more thing, seeing that this thread has already wandered pretty far offtopic anyway. I hope this doesn't sound too condescending, but as somebody who was never religiously inclined, I can't help but wonder, why would you even *want* to believe in a deity that condems you for something that you know yourself not to be wrong. You mentioned your confusion about it being sinful to even look at the female form with admiration and I have to agree. Why would a deity make us want it and then punish us for seeking it out? The only deity I can imagine doing so would be a very cruel one. As humans we have our own moral compass and it would be a shame not to use it. I mean, it could very well happen that after my death I am confronted by god looking at me disappointed and saying "Well tokezu, I think I made it very clear that it was the SATURDAY, on which you are not allowed to work! Off to hell you go.", but I sincerely hope I would have the courage to tell him that there are much more important things than that.

 

[Jabberwocky]

From the Course in Miracles. I'm not sure if you'd call this a Christian perspective, but Christ as channeled through a psychoanalyst gives answers I respect:

All material means that you accept as remedies for bodily ills are restatements of magic principles. This is the first step in believing that the body makes its own illness. It is a second misstep to try to heal it through non-creative agents. It does not follow, however, that the use of such agents for corrective purposes is evil. Sometimes the illness has a sufficiently strong hold over the mind to render a person temporarily inaccessible to the Atonement. In this case it may be wise to utilize a compromise approach to mind and body, in which something from the outside is temporarily given healing belief. This is because the last thing that can help the non-rightminded, or the sick, is an increase in fear. They are already in a fearweakened state. If they are prematurely exposed to a miracle, they may be precipitated into panic. This is likely to occur when upside-down perception has induced the belief that miracles are frightening.