Opioids does anyone else think opiates have other health benefits besides just pain relief

[TheUltimateFixx]

and can see opiates for what they are

Yes I see them EXACTLY for they are these days. Simple chemicals.
They have some medicinal uses and they can get me high. That's it.

They're not a magic elixir that will solve all the pain of life, nor are they arcane forces that can take over my damn mind and control my actions.
This realization is why you won't find me wrapping my entire existence around chasing the shit anymore.

 

[Ganjcat]

. What ganjcat fails to see is that it's fine to disagree, but to tell others that their experience is invalid & "denial" and a "lie",

Can you quote the part where I said any of this please mate because I don't recall saying of that

And theirs no such this as a denial experience that doesn't even make sense... I take it you have been using tut tut

 

[Ganjcat]

Hey guys had a bet on the football if 3 teams win I get 40 quid if all 8 win I get over £1300 wish me luck please if I win I will sort you two out as a peace offering xD

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

I've already dealt with and faced all my traumas from the past and still struggle with these issues.
I'm not sure why people think "just facing" issues makes them disappear over night.

I think there is a point to be made for facing things if someone has been using up all their mental energy on repression , and as a result never moved on with their life. The longer you repress a thing, the more daunting the shadow of it grows in your mind. So I think in those cases, then yes the person should be helped to confront the reality of whatever they suffered, and be helped through the resulting emotions. THAT can be a catharsis and free you of a lot of baggage.

But in my own case -? I never repressed anything ; as a matter of fact I was constantly excruciatingly aware of everything. Being made to constantly rake over old muck and bring it back up to the surface would have served zero purpose apart from re-traumatising me.
The only thing that would REALLY help me is if several things just HAD NOT HAPPENED. And obviously that is not possible ; so the best I can do for myself is to try to forget about it and make it irrelevant to my existence as much as I can.

There's also the genetic component. These issues run in my family.

There is in fact not a single peer - reviewed study that has ever made a credible case for this. It merely keeps constantly getting speculated on; but the odds of pinpointing one single straightforward genetic marker for this very complex and individual behavior we call addiction are about the same as for finding the fabled 'gay gene'.

I mean ask any random person, and they will most likely know someone who has, or has had, some drug or alcohol problems ; or at the least know OF someone that has. By that measure, you could safely conclude addiction runs in just about EVERYONE 'S family.

.. What DOES run in families however are certain mental illnesses like manic depression and schizophrenia. There are also genetic factors which contribute to personality traits such as impulsivity, sensation seeking, and stress tolerance ; any of these might very well make an individual more likely to develop addictive tendencies. I think that's a more realistic avenue to go down than searching for some hypothetical 'addiction gene'.

Not to mention that if your actual PARENTS happened to be drinkers or addicts, you would see this behaviour modelled for you and experience it as normal.

And there's even a theory that most depressed people have some sort of imbalance in their endogenous opioid system.

Again, just another theory and never proven. It may make intuitive sense but there's no relevant data. Also I still suffer from the same levels of depression yet have substantially reduced my opiate intake, and my condition has nevertheless not deteriorated.

So simply finding and facing trauma's isn't always the answer.

No. Entirely agree.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Hey guys had a bet on the football if 3 teams win I get 40 quid if all 8 win I get over £1300 wish me luck please if I win I will sort you two out as a peace offering xD

I'm on.
... Though I for one never actually saw myself as being in a fight with anyone here. I was merely getting annoyed.

PS yes I know you're hinting at somebody else here besides myself in all probability.
He's perhaps being more abrasive than me, but we're basically both just sick & tired of having standard rehab talk repeated at us. You get allergic after awhile if your experience won't fit the 'lifelong helpless addict' model yet total strangers will INSIST to you that that's what you are and indeed seem to be somehow REQUIRED to be.
It's nothing personal.

... Drinks on me if ya win?

 

[Opal35]

So for a period of about 2 years I had a fairly unlimited supply of Codeine. As you or someone else on here said something like 'i liked it and it liked me'. I have had depression for a long time and it was hugely beneficial in treating that. However, over time the amount I needed to feel anything just got bigger and bigger until it was unsustainable. I'm not talking about trying to roll here either. I could see that the journey was going to come to an end one way or another..and it inevitably did. I'm just reflecting on the suggestion that it could be legitimised as a MH treatment and I don't think it could. Tramadol, which you mention, was made a controlled drug after a steep rise in fatalities. Again - I love opiates and often dream of them, but I can see they would not be effective (without causing harm) as a MH treatment. I'm now struggling with depression again, mainly in the form of anehdonia so if you or anyone else has any suggestions bid be grateful to hear them. I would like to try Bupropion but think that only a consultant can initiate it which will be tricky to negotiate with my highly suspicious GP.

Of course I needed to escalate my doses.....to get high.

With tramadol, I knew there were major seizure risks in higher dosages, so I never went past 400mg very often. Which makes it self-limiting.
But even after the initial euphoria was gone, tramadol still made me feel energized, calmer and in a better mood for weeks after daily use.

And with heroin, if it was good, raw rock.. I often dosed (intranasally, never IV) in the morning & would be good until afternoon/early evening, where I would dose again & then possibly dose once more when I settled down in the evening (that's if I didn't need a nap after those first 2 doses). And then usually a good 6-10 hours of sleep was long enough for me to reset, so that my following doses the next morning were still effective.

By effective, I mean antidepressant, mood-lifting, energizing. Not nod land.
Of course when I did feel like getting a "buzz" or nodding, I would increase the dosage a little, but in my perspective, so what? Humans can handle pretty heft doses of opioids if they have a tolerance. Not saying they should, but I had the ability to adjust my doses accordingly, especially since my goal was mostly for the aforementioned affects, rather than passing out.

It was unsustainable for me because you have to go through some one who may or may not answer your call or come through that day. Which would be different if people didn't need to get it from shady people.

Now I use buprenorphine, which we all know, increasing the dosage isn't going to do a whole lot more than lower doses anyway, but it's still a decent antidepressant. It helped me quit drinking alcohol. Haven't had a drink in 5 years and also eliminated any of my self harming behavior and suicidal thoughts I use to have. I'd say that's pretty damn impressive.

And these other two moron's who know nothing but spewing insults and myths would fair better on some government propaganda website and not here on Bluelight.

 

[Ganjcat]

I'm on.
... Though I for one never actually saw myself as being in a fight with anyone here. I was merely getting annoyed.

PS yes I know you're hinting at somebody else here besides myself in all probability.
He's perhaps being more abrasive than me, but we're basically both just sick & tired of having standard rehab talk repeated at us. You get allergic after awhile if your experience won't fit the 'lifelong helpless addict' model yet total strangers will INSIST to you that that's what you are and indeed seem to be somehow REQUIRED to be.
It's nothing personal.

... Drinks on me if ya win?

Didnt come through they never do I only do cheap draw accumulaters they're harder then winning the lottery but I'm not giving up one day I'll win one of those fuckers I swear you wouldn't believe how hard it is to pick 4+ teams and for those team to all draw with the opposition I've been doing it for years and if your lucky you get 3 max it's all I bet on though apart from horse racing the other week I spent my last spare money on 3 bets after a losing streak and all 3 came through I was simultaneously watching 2 horse races where I knew one had win ft the commentator but the other one looked like my number I think it was 12 then the other bet which was a dog race that won but literally by a bloody hair their had to be a steward inquiry or whatever it called

 

[Ganjcat]

After that I got the fuck out of there with all the money I walked in with plus an extra £10 or £20 sadly the old instincts in me made me waste the money on.. you can guess what still it's a nice feeling spending the bookies money

 

[jasperkent]

... I think over - reliance on ANYTHING shows you that you got a problem that runs deeper than your addiction

Truer words were never spoken (or posted).

 

[Ganjcat]

Truer words were never spoken (or posted).

I didn't see that quote from my man true say man I think that describes me for most of my life tbh..I had a depressing childhood..

 

[TheFrogEffect]

Heroin did wonders for my mental health for a while (I'm bipolar II). It was nice being able to go places and do things without constant, extreme anxiety ruining it for me. I could walk into a crowded room and not immediately feel like it was all eyes on me. And even if it was, I didn't give a fuck. It made it a lot easier for me to socialize. And it also gave me a lot of motivation. I kept my room straight, car cleaned, etc. just fine while using. But I began using it in combination with meth and it was no longer my mental reprieve that it once was. In addition to that, despite not being a daily user, I am strongly addicted to H.

I quit h/fent and meth a couple months ago because of how my mental state was going (the meth'll do that). I was originally only going to quit meth but decided that, overall, quitting everything was for the best. I had one lapse on some quality brown tar heroin a couple weeks ago. I don't regret the lapse. The dope was amazing. Beautiful. A good farewell to the substance for me, I'd say.

As for opiates/opioids being a legit treatment for conditions other than pain: I don't think the risk outweighs the reward, despite it working for my mental health. They're ridiculously addictive. I very easily could have OD'd and died, like many people do. I've seen people get psychosis from opiates/opioids which had the direct opposite effect on their mental health than it did on mine. If you use regularly, your tolerance spikes drastically and it takes more and more to get you to the desired effect.

It's honestly easier and likely safer to treat other things with meds designed for those purposes. Antidepressants, antipsychotics, etc. for mental health, pain killers for pain, and so on. Everything has its risks but generally using things as prescribed is the safest bet.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Heroin did wonders for my mental health for a while (I'm bipolar II). It was nice being able to go places and do things without constant, extreme anxiety ruining it for me. I could walk into a crowded room and not immediately feel like it was all eyes on me. And even if it was, I didn't give a fuck. It made it a lot easier for me to socialize. And it also gave me a lot of motivation. I kept my room straight, car cleaned, etc. just fine while using. But I began using it in combination with meth and it was no longer my mental reprieve that it once was. In addition to that, despite not being a daily user, I am strongly addicted to H.

I quit h/fent and meth a couple months ago because of how my mental state was going (the meth'll do that). I was originally only going to quit meth but decided that, overall, quitting everything was for the best. I had one lapse on some quality brown tar heroin a couple weeks ago. I don't regret the lapse. The dope was amazing. Beautiful. A good farewell to the substance for me, I'd say.

As for opiates/opioids being a legit treatment for conditions other than pain: I don't think the risk outweighs the reward, despite it working for my mental health. They're ridiculously addictive. I very easily could have OD'd and died, like many people do. I've seen people get psychosis from opiates/opioids which had the direct opposite effect on their mental health than it did on mine. If you use regularly, your tolerance spikes drastically and it takes more and more to get you to the desired effect.

It's honestly easier and likely safer to treat other things with meds designed for those purposes. Antidepressants, antipsychotics, etc. for mental health, pain killers for pain, and so on. Everything has its risks but generally using things as prescribed is the safest bet.

Antidepressants cause dependence just as much as opioids.
"Sudden death" is also a listed side effect of AD's and AP's... I'm sure it's not very common, but it's probably more common than buprenorphine overdoses (which are incredibly rare).

Long term antipsychotic use can also lead to Tardive Dyskinesia. And I already have a body movement disorder, so I think I'll pass.


Even simple drugs like Topamax can cause acute glaucoma and blindness.

There's also lovely mood stabilizers like "lithium"... You might end up with a fucked thyroid, put on 300lbs and become a zombie, but hey, at least you're no longer a mentally ill pest to our lovely alcohol drinking society!

I think i'd rather be dependent on opioids (main side effect profile : dependence, constipation, drowsiness) than risk blindness, sudden death or tardive dyskinesia.


Even cold turkeying clonidine can cause rebound blood pressure bad enough to cause a stroke or a heart attack.

People shouldn't assume that just because it comes from a doctor and isn't an opioid, that it's some how "safer".


Using opioids for mental health requires some one who's educated on their pharmacology and can be responsible. I see quite a few people agreeing with me but then later in their post saying "but they're addictive and there's safer meds out there"...Which makes zero sense because most other meds to treat issues also cause dependence and have a more broad side effect profile (including death).

So over all, people's reasoning is... "opiates are not good for anything other than pain because : insert negative experience and societal conditioning here".



Ya'll go ahead with taking your creativity-killing, emotional flattening AD's & AP drugs. I'll stick to the classic ways of activating my mu/delta/kappa and the occasional dopamine release.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Can you quote the part where I said any of this please mate because I don't recall saying of that

And theirs no such this as a denial experience that doesn't even make sense... I take it you have been using tut tut

"Ok buddy your getting angry because you do not want to accept the truth why don't you start injecting heroin for 10 years straight and come back and tell us all the amazing benefits I am allowed my own opinion just like you are it's not anti drug it's facts theirs a reason 90 percent of people think heroin junkies are scum of the earth" - YOU

"Not accpeting truth" - Telling me im in denial and then basically saying I'm scum. You even admit right here that you're giving your opinions, yet telling me what is & is not "truth".........
Not to mention going on with Napoly-whatever the fuck and agreeing with everything he said about UltimateFixx & I being "junkies in denial". -


Maybe lay off the weed "bro", because your memory is fucking garbage. Seriously, this literally wasn't even a week ago.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Ok buddy your getting angry because you do not want to accept the truth why don't you start injecting heroin for 10 years straight and come back and tell us all the amazing benefits I am allowed my own opinion just like you are it's not anti drug it's facts theirs a reason 90 percent of people think heroin junkies are scum of the earth

.............

"I'm allowed to have opinions just like you are!"
"Except my opinions are facts!!!"
"I never said you were in denial even though I told you that you do not want to accept my opnions as the truth"...

Lmfao. Gtfoh. Your "facts" are about as true as that fake statistics number you pulled out of your ass. Ask Switzerland & Portugal what they think of heroin users...

 

[TheFrogEffect]

Antidepressants cause dependence just as much as opioids.
"Sudden death" is also a listed side effect of AD's and AP's... I'm sure it's not very common, but it's probably more common than buprenorphine overdoses (which are incredibly rare).

Long term antipsychotic use can also lead to Tardive Dyskinesia. And I already have a body movement disorder, so I think I'll pass.


Even simple drugs like Topamax can cause acute glaucoma and blindness.

There's also lovely mood stabilizers like "lithium"... You might end up with a fucked thyroid, put on 300lbs and become a zombie, but hey, at least you're no longer a mentally ill pest to our lovely alcohol drinking society!

I think i'd rather be dependent on opioids (main side effect profile : dependence, constipation, drowsiness) than risk blindness, sudden death or tardive dyskinesia.


Even cold turkeying clonidine can cause rebound blood pressure bad enough to cause a stroke or a heart attack.

People shouldn't assume that just because it comes from a doctor and isn't an opioid, that it's some how "safer".


Using opioids for mental health requires some one who's educated on their pharmacology and can be responsible. I see quite a few people agreeing with me but then later in their post saying "but they're addictive and there's safer meds out there"...Which makes zero sense because most other meds to treat issues also cause dependence and have a more broad side effect profile (including death).

So over all, people's reasoning is... "opiates are not good for anything other than pain because : insert negative experience and societal conditioning here".



Ya'll go ahead with taking your creativity-killing, emotional flattening AD's & AP drugs. I'll stick to the classic ways of activating my mu/delta/kappa and the occasional dopamine release.

All fair points. I think the biggest issue regarding safety with heroin is because of the wildly varying purity and also cuts that come along with it. Like I said, it definitely was effective for my mental health in that it made me give so very few shits about stupid little things. (A few friends have told me it made me give no shits about anything at all and it "wasn't a good look for me", but I don't think that's necessarily true.) But the risk with street bought shit is there and is more likely to negatively impact you than the side effects of many AD's and such. If it wasn't for the legal status and the random shit you find in your dope, I'd be more open to the idea of using it as an actual treatment. Pure H in a professional medical environment could work wonders.

I can't say I had any luck with other opiates or opioids for my mental health though. Heroin was just the ticket. Maybe its just because prior to an accident I was in, I had very limited experience with opiates/oids at all. I had taken perc and oxy maybe seven or eight times total prior to winding up hospitalized and stuck on morphine. Perhaps its because my experience is primarily with the "big guns" that I'm so hesitant to recommend treating off-label conditions with opiates.

Oh and fuck lithium. I did that shit for a while and came out unscathed. My doctor was surprised I didn't have any negative implications from it given how long I had taken it for. It was stressful to constantly be worrying that my meds to help me feel better might just be fucking me up instead. Bullshit didn't even work anyway.

 

[Ganjcat]

.............

"I'm allowed to have opinions just like you are!"
"Except my opinions are facts!!!"
"I never said you were in denial even though I told you that you do not want to accept my opnions as the truth"...

Lmfao. Gtfoh. Your "facts" are about as true as that fake statistics number you pulled out of your ass. Ask Switzerland & Portugal what they think of heroin users...

I never said my opinions were facts

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

All fair points. I think the biggest issue regarding safety with heroin is because of the wildly varying purity and also cuts that come along with it. Like I said, it definitely was effective for my mental health in that it made me give so very few shits about stupid little things. (A few friends have told me it made me give no shits about anything at all and it "wasn't a good look for me", but I don't think that's necessarily true.) But the risk with street bought shit is there and is more likely to negatively impact you than the side effects of many AD's and such. If it wasn't for the legal status and the random shit you find in your dope, I'd be more open to the idea of using it as an actual treatment. Pure H in a professional medical environment could work wonders.

I can't say I had any luck with other opiates or opioids for my mental health though. Heroin was just the ticket. Maybe its just because prior to an accident I was in, I had very limited experience with opiates/oids at all. I had taken perc and oxy maybe seven or eight times total prior to winding up hospitalized and stuck on morphine. Perhaps its because my experience is primarily with the "big guns" that I'm so hesitant to recommend treating off-label conditions with opiates.

Oh and fuck lithium. I did that shit for a while and came out unscathed. My doctor was surprised I didn't have any negative implications from it given how long I had taken it for. It was stressful to constantly be worrying that my meds to help me feel better might just be fucking me up instead. Bullshit didn't even work anyway.

That's true. I'd like to be more clear that when I speak of heroin here, I mean actual pure diacetylmorphine.
Street stuff of course will always be more dangerous. Prohibition has made it more dangerous really in the first place.
But I can completely understand your points there. When I did actively use heroin, my dealer respected me enough to only give me uncut rocks, where as other assholes would of course break off a piece of rock and then crush it up with a bunch of other shit that I didn't want, in order to make it "bigger". I refused to fuck with mystery powders.

I respect your experience. I've seen first hand the damage lithium and other pyschiatric drugs can do to people. And you're right, half the time they aren't even effective & generally make things worse or cause other health problems, which are then treated with more shitty drugs.

Im currently prescribed an entire grocery list of medicines (stole this phrase from a friend of mine ), but it's ridiculous. Literally 10+ meds. Only a few of them really help and of course they're not cure-alls. I could confidently say that if I had 2-3 doses of pure diacetylmorphine to use daily, I could probably eliminate a lot of those meds.

Places like Switzlerand and Portugal already give out actual diacetylmorphine maintenance and it's been a success.

 

[0.o_LaCuNa_o.0]

God gave us opioid receptors for a reason… to use OPIOIDS.

 

[jasperkent]

Pure H in a professional medical environment could work wonders.

That pretty much sums it up.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

God gave us opioid receptors for a reason… to use OPIOIDS.

Amen!


Our body also creates it's own endogenous opioid peptides.
There's even casomorphins in milk & dairy, which is why cheese is so addictive!

Alcohol & various other drugs and food can also indirectly activate opioid receptors.