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Tryptamines [DMT Subthread] Injecting (crystal clear) Extracts

Gaian Planes said:
Do you mind if I forward your post to a friend in philosophy that I think would find some interesting parts to what you say. I especially think we would be interested in the impossible aspects to your experience (as this is an ongoing debate with this friend whether people can experience impossibilities, I think we can he thinks it doesn't make sense to talk of impossible experiences).
Click to expand...

This reminded me of a question about impossible experiences.

"... the thing makes linguistic objects, it sheds syntactical objectification, so that it comes towards you, they come toward you - they divide, they merge, they’re bounding, they’re screaming, they’re squeaking – and they hold out objects which they sing into existence, or which they pull out of some other place. And these things are... like jewels and lights... or old farts, and yesterday, and high speed. In other words, they are made of juxtapositions of qualities that are impossible in three dimensional space. What they’re like is – and in fact this is probably what they are – what they’re like is they’re like three and four and five dimensional puns. And you know how the pleasure of a pun lies in the fact that... it’s not that the meaning flickers from A to B, it’s that it’s simultaneously A and B. And when the pun is really funny it’s an A, B, C, D pun. And it’s simultaneously all these things. Well, that quality which in our experience can only occur to an acoustic output or a glyph, which stands for an acoustical output, i.e. a printed pun, in the DMT world objects can do this. Objects can simultaneously manifest more than one nature at once. "

-Terrence McKenna

If that qualifies, I’ve definitely experienced the multidimensional pun, except it’s more than simply juxtaposed objects. It’s textures, emotions, sensations, and memories all juxtaposed into a perfect boundless symphony of consciousness.

<3
 
I'm surprised to not see this mentioned yet..... very easy and stable form of DMT to prepare, and ideal for injection as this is what strassman used:

Freebase DMT to DMT Fumarate

Initially, some folks discovered that if you dissolve DMT freebase in acetone and add FASA, DMT fumarate will precipitate out of the solution. While DMT freebase is soluble in acetone, DMT fumarate is not.

69Ron wrote:
Here’s the quick tech:

1) Completely dissolve 1000 mg of freebase DMT in 50 ml of acetone.
2) Completely dissolve 309 mg of fumaric acid in another batch of 50 ml of acetone.
3) Mix for 1 minute and evaporate at room temperature to give DMT fumarate.

Now that's kinda neat in itself, it provides an easy route to the one salt of DMT that's known to exist stably as a solid. Regarding DMT fumarate, 69Ron commented:

69Ron wrote:
DMT fumarate forms completely colorless, long clear pointed crystals in MEK that look like the kryptonite crystals seen in the superman movies. They will be lightly yellow or amber colored if impure.

DMT fumarate is best for snorting, taking sublingually, injecting, taking intra-rectally, or taking orally with an MAOI. If a person wants to smoke DMT, they need freebase DMT. SWIM thinks smoking it is a waste. The trip is too short. SWIM prefers the other routes of administration because the trip is much longer lasting.


Pure DMT fumarate from freebase DMT.

To make pure DMT fumarate from freebase DMT the following procedure from SWIM’s notes works great

Quote:
1) Dissolve 100 mg of DMT in 4 ml of warm 91% isopropyl alcohol (about 40 C). NOTE: substitutes that also work include 95% ethanol, 95 % isopropyl alcohol. Hoever 99% does not work. There must be at least 5% water or the fumaric acid in the next step fails to dissolve completely.
2) Add 100 mg of fumaric acid. NOTE: this is excess fumaric acid. We actually only need 31 mg in theory, but we use 100 just to make sure.
3) Evaporate the solution at no hotter than 140 C (DMT fumarate melts at 152 C). NOTE: putting the liquid in a 10 ml beaker on a hotplate set to 100 C with a fan blowing over the liquid works great.
4) When completely dry, we add 10 ml of methyl ethyl ketone and mix. The excess fumaric acid quickly falls to the bottom of the methyl ethyl ketone because it’s insoluble in it.
5) Filter the methyl ethyl ketone to remove the excess fumaric acid.
6) Evaporate the solution at no hotter than 140 C (DMT fumarate melts at 152 C) to give pure DMT fumarate crystals.

Freebase DMT has a molecular weight of about 188.269. Fumaric acid has a molecular weight of 116.07. DMT fumarate has a molecular weight of about 492.608 (DMT + fumaric acid + DMT). It is 76% as potent as freebase DMT, so you’ll need 31% more to achieve the same effectiveness. This means a 20 mg dose of freebase DMT is equivalent to 26 mg of DMT fumarate (requiring 31% more).

DMT fumarate is more water soluble, more stable, has a longer shelf life, is much easier to crystallize, has a higher melting point, is less waxy, and easier to form into a powder than freebase DMT. Because of these characteristics DMT fumarate is much preferred over freebase DMT. Freebase DMT has no benefits other than the fact that it is easily vaporized.
 
Bump....any opinions on creating fumerate for the storage of Spice...and the ease of parenteral admin?
 
Ghetto Recrystallisation.

Get some zippo lighter fluid or equivalent.

Pour out 30mls or so into a smallish jar

Put 1-5 grams of cleanish dmt in the jar (it needs to be yellowish or whitish or just a bit off colour or opaque)

Put the jar inside a big saceupan

Pour the water from a boiled kettle into the saucepan so it surrounds the jar.

Wait for the DMT to dissolve... swish it around...

Then let the jar sit with the lid off for a few days (you don't need to cool it down in a fridge or whatever)

Crystals will form, the longer you let it sit, the larger the crystals will be.

Some of the crystals may be totally clear and solid. Some may be quite large.

Repeat this process for total purity!
 
I.V. DMT - Freebase to Citrate Salt?

Managed to obtain some spice and wanted to try the IV route. The crystals were had via a freeze precip and they are snow white. If I add citric acid to the dmt base, what should the pH of the dmt salt + h20 be at the time of injection? How will I know when all the dmt base has been converted to dmt citrate? When it dissolves?

Just want to do this safely. Thanks!

Peacefully,
NN
 
merged thread about injecting DMT and made t a subthread of the B+D
 
nonnihilnitoris said:
Managed to obtain some spice and wanted to try the IV route. The crystals were had via a freeze precip and they are snow white. If I add citric acid to the dmt base, what should the pH of the dmt salt + h20 be at the time of injection? How will I know when all the dmt base has been converted to dmt citrate? When it dissolves?

Just want to do this safely. Thanks!

Peacefully,
NN
Click to expand...

I haven't measured the pH, but as long as you don't go overboard with the citric acid, it shouldn't be a major issue. Ideally, I'd start with roughly a 2:1 molar ratio of DMT to citric acid, which would be roughly 50 mg citric acid to 100 mg DMT (since the molar weights are approximately the same). Heat the solution and, if needed, add more citric acid until the DMT is completely dissolved.

Happy trails!

<3
 
Gracias Dondante! Mods, sorry for the duped thread.. I'll be posting a trip report shortly, assuming nothing goes wrong.

Peacefully...
 
with extracted DMT it is highly recomended to use a wheel filter even if it is snow white.

If you dont have acces at least filter the solution through cotton several times before injecting.

You seriously dont want to be injecting any plant matter or fats into your bloodstream.
 
I think if your using a wheel filter, they would be equally safe. That said, I have IM'd it and gave a close friend an IV shot of extracted dmt, and neither one of us had any problems. I think that the skill level of the person doing the extraction definitely plays a role in purity of end product (practice makes perfect...). that said, the DMT was recrystalized twice, and it burned completely clean. but, in the spirit of harm reduction, a wheel filter would be highly recommended.
 
Figured I'd inject this thread with some life.

Anyone have thoughts on combining: DMT w/ DPT and/or 5-MeO-DMT in one rig? Overkill? Maybe. It's for the research community though ;)

Ketamine in the nasal passages of course.
 
why not ketamine in the same rig? One of my favorite combo's....I think DMT and DPT or 5-MeO would be overkill, but DMT is enough on its own for me
 
I've IM'd DPT while on ayahuasca once before. It was odd, I could feel them both doing their own things independently of one another -- like a Venn diagram with no overlap. In other words I didn't detect much synergy. I'm still waiting for a compulsion to take DMT, DET, and DPT together in one barrel in the hope of bridging that experiential gap, but despite getting a small sample of DET I still haven't felt it yet.

I agree that ketamine is a great friend to IM DMT.
 
I hope this helps. This process is all theoretical and was written for harm reduction. I successfully converted my DMT freebase into DMT acetate solution with white vinegar and had great success IV'ing it. A lot of this is credited to Dondante (he's in italics) - who helped me a lot with the ratios and is responsible for most of this information, etc. Hopefully this helps anyone trying to do this.
----------------------------------------------------------

Here is the full text I compiled that has all the info I needed to convert DMT freebase into a salt for injection. I spent around $50 at www.researchsupply.net for all the materials. (they will last me many conversions)
I bought:
Quote:
(7) Millipore Sterile PVDF Syringe Filter 33 mm .22 µm
Weight: 0.02 lbs. each

(2) Terumo 23g x 1.5' Qty 10
Weight: 0.75 lbs. each

(1) 3ml with 1.5' 23g Terumo 10ct.
Weight: 0.50 lbs. each

(3) 10 ml Clear Sealed Sterile Glass Vial (silver)
Weight: 0.03 lbs. each
(2) 10ml luer lock Syringe w/o Needle Exel 10ct.
Weight: 0.50 lbs. each
And I use 28 gauge insulin syringes to spike my vein. I've found that this method works great and just as I planned, and IV DMT is very amazing/crisper/stronger than smoking.

HERE IS THE FULL TEXT FILE THAT I COMPILED WITH ALL THE INFO:
Quote:
Shooting DMT

CONVERSATION WITH DONDANTE ON BLUELIGHT:

------QUESTION
Here is my question...
Well I have 2 questions...the first is simple. Here I go.

Question #1) What should I use to do the conversion in? I thought a shot glass might work, so I bought one of those. But what if I need to apply heat (they have pretty thick glass on the bottom)? What would YOU suggest I use to prep the stuff (I know a spoon is not recommended)? Before doing anything, I should wipe the surface of the shotglass/whatever with rubbing alcohol to make sure it's somewhat sterile, right? Will I need to apply heat do you think?

Question #2) I need a starting point with the liquid measurement. I don't just want to jump right in with no clue about its solubility (and maybe add too much or too little vinegar or something). I am going to use 1 part vinegar and one part water to help neutralize the end product. Ideally, I'd like to make the solution 100mg/ml.

So, if I wanted to make it 100mg/ml, I would need 50mg DMT to dissolve in 0.25ml of 5% vinegar (because I'm going to double the volume by adding water at the end). Does this sound plausible? In your experience/opinion, about how much vinegar would it take to dissolve 50mg of DMT? Maybe a starting volume/guess if you aren't sure that I could start at? I don't just want to start blindly testing and waste DMT...

If you don't think 100mg/ml is plausible, would approx. 83mg/ml work (50mg would have to fit in 0.3ml vinegar, and then another 0.3ml of water would be added after conversion to make a 0.6mg shot of 50mg)? I just want to know what would be the ballpark amount of vinegar to spray onto 50mg of DMT, to dissolve it all?

I plan on converting like 250mg due to the price of filters, so I will just multiply the amount I have for 50mg by 5.

If you can please help me, that would be great. Any advice you could give, or if you could refer me to someone who would know more about this certain thing. Anything would be greatly appreciated.

If you have any questions or are confused by anything I asked/said, please let me know and I'll clarify.

>>>>>>>>>RESPONSE
I haven't used vinegar, but what I did was work out a rough molar ratio for DMT to citric acid. The MW of DMT is 188 g/mol. Since citric acid is a polyprotic acid, I think I ended up adding about 1 mole citric acid to 2 mol DMT, a rough estimation, but for acetic it's monoprotic so it's simple to estimate.

For 5% white distilled vinegar, there should be roughly 50 mg of acetic acid per ml. And since the MW of acetic acid is 60 g/mol, the ratio of DMT to acetic acid would be 188:60 or about 3.1. So to start, you'd add about 80 mg of acetic acid (1.6 ml vinegar) to 250 mg DMT freebase. Then add as much water as needed to get the concentration that you want. You should be able to get 100 mg/ml. If you need to add heat, just microwave a small amound of water in a cup wide enough to act as a heat bath for the shot glass. If it doesn't dissolve, just alternate trying heat and small amounts of vinegar until it's pretty much all dissolved. If there's a tiny bit that won't dissolve just leave it as it might be insoluble impurities.

A shot glass is fine. I'd wash it out, but it'll go through a micron filter after you dissolve it so keeping it completely sterile isn't important.

Let me know if you have anymore questions.

----------QUESTION
Should I add the vinegar and make sure all the DMT is dissolved before I start adding water? Wouldn't that be better, or would it not matter? For example, adding 250mg DMT to the shotglass, then 1.6ml vinegar, then heat/agitate until it dissolves? How much heat/agitation/time do you think it will take to dissolve, or will it go fairly easily? Should I really heat it using a microwave? That seems like it could get fucked up somehow, or at least lose some product. Could I heat it with a flame, or does the bottom of a shotglass have too thick of glass?

I would ASSUME that 5% vinegar stings going into a vein, and I want to minimize that as effectively as possible. I was thinking I should neutralize it 1:1 with water (so it will be an equal amount of water and vinegar). Do I need to add this much water, or is it overkill? The reason I'm adding so much water is because I want the pain/stinging/acidity to be minimized when IV'ing. Just how much would it hurt to shoot straight vinegar, and do you think I need to add an equal amount of water, or is it not very acidic and should I not worry about too much pain at the injection site? Like, for example, would 1.6ml vinegar and 0.9ml water work? Or should I be safe and make sure to add 1.6ml water? (Remember the shot needs to be under an ml at the end, and I'd like to be able to IV 70mg if I wanted).

If I added 1.6ml vinegar and 1.6ml water to 250mg DMT freebase, the concentration would be ~78mg/ml, which is a bit weak (I don't want to have to push a whole ml of liquid into me unless I have to). To get it 100mg/ml, it would have to be 1.6ml vinegar and 0.9ml water. Would that work, and minimize stinging as well? Or is the stinging so minor that I shouldn't worry about it? Would you recommend ever JUST using vinegar, or would that hurt pretty bad going in?

Do I need a higher acidity of vinegar to get a higher concentration per ml? (I doubt it)

BTW: With the wheel filters, someone said in a thread:
Quote:
"You can only use them once, and I'd pre-wet them a bit and push a little extra fluid through afterwards to flush them, but you don't really have to do that, I guess."

Is this necessary/helpful? Like before using the filter, should I push like 0.1ml of water through it, and same with after? (To minimize wasted product I assume? What would be the point other than that?)

>>>>>>>>RESPONSE
Sorry, been a bit busy. Hope this helps. If you have anymore questions, don't hesitate to ask. I should be able to check my PMs sometime tomorrow. Good luck and enjoy! BTW, I found IV DMT to be enhanced to the 1000th degree if it's a supplement to a trip instead of just by itself. But I thought the same about smoked DMT ... too quick for me. IV DMT with LSD is the ultimate combination IMO. Instead of being jolted out of this dimension, it's more like a soft unveiling of the most beautiful experience the human mind can conceive. Lastly, remember to start low. 15 mg IV was near 40-50 smoked for me.

Should I add the vinegar and make sure all the DMT is dissolved before I start adding water?

Doesn't matter.

How much heat/agitation/time do you think it will take to dissolve, or will it go fairly easily?

No idea ... didn't take much with citric acid

Should I really heat it using a microwave? That seems like it could get fucked up somehow, or at least lose some product. Could I heat it with a flame, or does the bottom of a shotglass have too thick of glass?

Don't put the DMT in the microwave. Just put a cup cup with less than an inch of water in there, let is come to a boil ... take it out, and you have a heat bath. Put the shot glass in there and stirr ... homemade heat bath. Don't use a flame.

I would ASSUME that 5% vinegar stings going into a vein, and I want to minimize that as effectively as possible. I was thinking I should neutralize it 1:1 with water (so it will be an equal amount of water and vinegar). Do I need to add this much water, or is it overkill? The reason I'm adding so much water is because I want the pain/stinging/acidity to be minimized when IV'ing.

I don't know if it will sting ... I've only used citric acid, and that did sting intramuscularly but not with IV. I would dilute it a little bit at least.

Do I need a higher acidity of vinegar to get a higher concentration per ml? (I doubt it)

You need a higher concentration of acetic acid to get it more concentrated. I got 400 mg/ml with citric acid. BTW, don't worry about injecting 1 ml ... if it doesn't sting, that's better. Now for IM, 1 ml and upwards might be painful just from volume alone.

You can only use them once, and I'd pre-wet them a bit and push a little extra fluid through afterwards to flush them, but you don't really have to do that, I guess.

Don't bother. You might lose like 1-2%, but you'll just be diluting if you do that.
Click to expand...
The previous message was all the PMs Dondante and I wrote to each other. Here is some info I compiled from the board an various threads.

Quote:
I've heard that the acetate absorbs the most effectively. Just dissolve your extract in the smallest amound of vinegar at the lowest acetic acid concentration you can.

So maybe, take my crystals in a shot glass or soemthing and heat it until they melt and then take some distilled white vinegar and slowly add little bit by little bit until it is all dissolved.
this sound good?

no need to melt your crystals first. just add enough vinegar untill the dMT is fully disolved.

it works, try it and see.

so would it be recommended to dilute the vinegar a lil bit?

Put the vinegar directly on the DMT using as little as it takes to fully dissolve the crystal. After the DMT is dissolved you can double the volume (most vinegar is 5% acetic acid) with water if you're worried about the acid stinging your ass.. heh heh. I wouldn't worry about the vinegar too much though.

I'm pretty sure in order to get 5% acetic acid you need to combine 1 part vinegar with 7 parts water.

but it really doesn't matter. Just add a ml or two of vinegar then dissolve the DMT (might have to heat) and then dissolve in water.

I also wouldn't worry about the vinegar too much. The DMT on the other hand will sting a bit penetrating your anal cavity (but not bad)

^Moral of this three post story: vinegar comes in different levels of acidity, just look at the label.

Is this what I need?
"Millipore Sterile PVDF 33mm Syringe Filters"
".22µm pore size"
Another question: They look like big wheels. How do you use them? I would assume it's a different procedure than filtering with cotton. Do you actually put the needle THROUGH the filter, or what? What is the technique for using these motherfuckers? I have no idea how I would use one, but I have never seen one with my eyes, only pics on the net. Would it be best to use with solution in a spoon, or a shotglass, or what? Also, can you use them multiple times? Or are they one-time use only?

Yeah, thats what you need. They will fit onto the end a luer-slip type syringe, or or twist on to a luer-lok type rig. Then you can stick a needle on the end, and inject your solution into a sterile vial or whatever.
Dissolve your stuff, filter through cotton to catch the big pieces of debris, then suck it up into the (larger) syringe. attach filter/needle, push through filter into sterile container (or I guess you could backload another syringe that you will inject with). You can only use them once, and I'd pre-wet them a bit and push a little extra fluid through afterwards to flush them, but you don't really have to do that, I guess.

I have tried IM and IV extracted DMT (freebase+vinegar) and not run into any issues, but that doesn't mean it is necssarily a bright idea. a wheel filter is definitely called for, particularly if IM'ing (IMing is more dangerous than IVing in terms of abscesses and so forth.)
IM DMT - gentle onset and gentle comedown, very pleasurable. have done about 60-80mg, which was enough for serious visuals but not close to a breakthrough, which would probably require a fairly high dose.
IV DMT - fucking crazy intense. a friend did about 80mg and for about 5-7 minutes was totally gone, reported complete ego loss, "ceasing to exist," but an amazing, rewarding, and refreshing experience. about half of that, for me, was an intense psychedelic rush, still on earth pretty much, but very hard hitting ... in a good way.

I do not condone injecting extracted DMT, however, for harm reduction purposes, here's a clarification of fizzacyst's post.
You need:
-A needleless syringe (preferably luer lok) … this will contain the unfiltered solution and lock onto the inlet of the filter.
-Water (preferably bacteriostatic)
-A 0.22 micron filter
-A needle (just the needle tip, no syringe; this fits on the other end of the filter)
-A rubber-capped sterile vial for storage (pump the solution straight through the filter into the sterile vial)
-Alcohol wipes to swab the exposed vial top and injection site (soap works too)

So, after attaching the wheel filter, I shouldn't re-attach the needle? I should just shoot the solution into the vial without the needle over the filter? Is there a reason for this?

You will need a needle on it to penetrate the septum of the vial. Its important to not re-use a needle, if that is what you are asking. 1 poke per needle. Would it help if if I set up a rig with some colored water or something and took a picture, to show you what it looks like?
edit:
That sounds like a smartass comment now that I read it again. It wasn't meant that way. Its extremely important that this be done correctly, or you aren't accomplishing anything at all.
I will take pics start to finish of processing some table salt or something if that would help give you a solid picture (prob not until the weekend tho).

Couldn't I just pump the filtered solution back into the spoon, or whatever I will use as a dish to draw up the solution? Why do I need a vial? Only for storage (like if I converted a lot at once)?
I think I got the basics of doing this down...
I'm using "synthetic DMT" (orange-ish...china) so I'm not even sure if a wheel filter is necessary, but I am going to wait and use one anyway.
I've got to make sure that the dose/shot is under 1ml at the end, because my IV needles are only 1ml. So for my first time I'll try to dissolve like 50mg in like .3ml vinegar, and then add .3ml water. That makes a 0.6ml shot.
This shit can get expensive, huh? With wheel filters being $4 each, I guess it would be smarter to convert more at once and store in vial.

It is extremely important to use the micron filter. You don't want that garbage going into you. You don't have to use a vial, you can squirt it into a syringe with the plunger pulled out or something.
If you put it into a spoon, its not going to be sterile anymore. I guess you could autoclave the spoon or something... but if you can do that then vial probably shouldn't be an issue.
It saves money to do a few doses at once, yeah.
Click to expand...
So, I ended up making a solution of 0.75ml dH2O and 0.85ml 5% white vinegar and 125mg DMT freebase. These were all mixed into a clean shotglass, and put into a heat bath until it all was dissolved. I then loaded it up into a large syringe with a removable needle. I then took the needle off, attached a .22micron wheel filter, and screwed the needle back on. I then put the needle into the septum of a 10ml sterile vial and squirted it in, running the solution through the wheel filter.

After this, you are done. You have a ~78mg/ml solution of DMT acetate. And if you are in a vein, it doesn't hurt due to acidity because of the water. Just make sure you are in or it does burn.

I would start with like 15mg, no more... ALWAYS use a .22micron wheel filter...the DMT I had was synthetic and I still used one...
It IS needed, as impure DMT injected can lead to anyphalactic shock. Just convert many doses at once, since the wheel filters are one time use only...

Of course, you can lower the concentration if you'd like, or whatever. I have never and would never think about IM'ing it.

Remember, the molar ratio for DMT:acetic acid is 3:1. And there is approx. 50mg of acetic acid in 1ml of 5% distilled white vinegar, so that's how I figured out how much vinegar to use.
 
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mr.mackey said:
why not ketamine in the same rig? One of my favorite combo's....I think DMT and DPT or 5-MeO would be overkill, but DMT is enough on its own for me
Click to expand...
Duration. DPT lasts a fair amount of time and ket IV is a bit too short for my liking. IM sounds nice but I don't have K from a vial. I have to recrystallize all my other substances for this endeavor so I guess K will have to join the cleaning party as well.
psood0nym said:
I've IM'd DPT while on ayahuasca once before. It was odd, I could feel them both doing their own things independently of one another -- like a Venn diagram with no overlap. In other words I didn't detect much synergy. I'm still waiting for a compulsion to take DMT, DET, and DPT together in one barrel in the hope of bridging that experiential gap, but despite getting a small sample of DET I still haven't felt it yet.

I agree that ketamine is a great friend to IM DMT.
Click to expand...

Interesting. May have had something to do with smoked and oral combo. My only concern is if I breakthrough with too much DMT it might overpower the others but I could be completely wrong. Only one way to find out.

and let us know how that triple D combo goes if you get around to it :)

edit: great post psilo...much appreciated!
 
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