Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?

[Gnostic Bishop]

Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?

Scriptures seem conflicted on the answer.

They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Do you have faith?

If you do, you cannot believe in hell. You would not think god a loser by believing he saves us all, as his will indicates. Those scriptures say he has no need of a hell for us.

Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?

Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves all?

Regards
DL

 

[Nightraver]

I'm not touching that one with a big long pointy stick with a dod of shit on the end.
I take my blesphemy like I do my opiate consumption. Very seriously

 

[tracedwards313]

It seems you are placing your own human limitations on God. God is not bound by the misunderstanding of men.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yawn...

 

[MsDiz]

Yawn...

I love you sometimes!

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

It seems you are placing your own human limitations on God. God is not bound by the misunderstanding of men.

I quoted the bible and did not mention me.

I am questioning gods limits which are supposed to be greater than mine.

I think you are coping out if you are a believer because you likely cannot do apologetics for god.

But if that is what you think, why bother with me at all?

Regards
DL

 

[tracedwards313]

I quoted the bible and did not mention me.

I am questioning gods limits which are supposed to be greater than mine.

I think you are coping out if you are a believer because you likely cannot do apologetics for god.

But if that is what you think, why bother with me at all?

Regards
DL

Why are you always saying that shit? A better question would be why do you post on forums asking why people "bother" with you?

You project your own ideas on to everyone and everything around you and then are convinced thats the only way of thinking and in your case it usually wrong. The way you talk is like talking to someone who always had blinders on.

What ever limitations you decide to place on God, as your tiny human brain understands him, is an uttler pointless waste of time.

The point of posting is to have a discussion, share ideas, opinions, but not with you. You just spout whatever tunnel vision belief you have and that's it. Your post really are a waste of time.

For a person who claims to have faith, you sure have a very small understanding of God. Im not talking about bible quotes either, Im talking about you and what you choose to believe.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

For a person who claims to have faith,

Never.

If that is how you understand what I write, then -----

As to why I try to draw believers into discusions of their religions.

Insert gays and women harmed by homophobic and misogynous religions to this quote. You should get an idea of what you should be doing with the homophobic and misogynous mainstream religions if you live by the golden rule.

Please get back to me with your conclusion.

Martin Niemöller
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Regards
DL

 

[tracedwards313]

Never.

If that is how you understand what I write, then -----

As to why I try to draw believers into discusions of their religions.

Insert gays and women harmed by homophobic and misogynous religions to this quote. You should get an idea of what you should be doing with the homophobic and misogynous mainstream religions if you live by the golden rule.

Please get back to me with your conclusion.

Martin Niemöller
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Regards
DL

I wrongfully assumed you had faith of some sort. Seeing as that you have quite strong feelings about the subject of religion/Faith and post about it more than anyone else.

I am not a religious person but I am not anti religion either. I was raised in a religious family and after I denounced my families religion, I spent years telling any and everyone all the reasons why what they believed was bullshit and had plethora of logical evidence to prove I was right and "they" were all wrong.

Truthfully I wished I could be one of them but I couldn't lie and say I believed something that was not truth. It actually caused me a lot of anger and frustration as a young person.

Over time things changed and I experienced things that changed my life that I never thought could possibly happen. I won't get into all of that, as I'm sure you dont care to hear it anyway.

These days I would never disrespect anyone for their faith, even if I personally see its as blatantly foolish because other peoplrs faith is not about me or what I "think".

I believe in God in a way that I never thought could happen for me because of my need of proof that truth is the truth, not just an idea but REAL. Yes, God is REAL and I dont just say that because I wish it to be true, it is true.

So, I am curious now about what it is that you believe? Are you Atheist? Do you believe in any for of spirituality?


Sorry if this is scrambled a bit, I havent slept in a couple days and now I'm on opiates still coming down lol

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

My take on this is that we are god as creators/destroyers: We can do what we wish only have to account for our actions as it is evident that we have to pay to play on a daily basis... same but different.
So:
Yes: We sway others minds always and this equates to my answer. If yahwey is tryin to rape a chick behind my house and I put a .45 to his head and the game is up thwarting has been accomplished.
1

 

[Foreigner]

Yahweh is a capricious, vindictive and often hateful god. He is certainly not "the god" that monotheism refers to. He can be worked with or thwarted. Lots of other gods and spirits can't stand him, and saying his name in their presence will offend them.

There are much better deities to work with, if you feel like going the deity route.

 

[sekio]

Isn't this the classic "could God create a burrito so spicy even He could not eat it" argument? (or immovable object / unstoppable force, but that's less funny)

Yahweh is a capricious, vindictive and often hateful god.

I wholeheartedly agree, normally religion is not my slice of pie, but reading the Old Testament... yeah, not a kind and loving god. Objectively he's kind of a dick, actually.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I wrongfully assumed you had faith of some sort. Seeing as that you have quite strong feelings about the subject of religion/Faith and post about it more than anyone else.

I am not a religious person but I am not anti religion either. I was raised in a religious family and after I denounced my families religion, I spent years telling any and everyone all the reasons why what they believed was bullshit and had plethora of logical evidence to prove I was right and "they" were all wrong.

Truthfully I wished I could be one of them but I couldn't lie and say I believed something that was not truth. It actually caused me a lot of anger and frustration as a young person.

Over time things changed and I experienced things that changed my life that I never thought could possibly happen. I won't get into all of that, as I'm sure you dont care to hear it anyway.

These days I would never disrespect anyone for their faith, even if I personally see its as blatantly foolish because other peoplrs faith is not about me or what I "think".

I believe in God in a way that I never thought could happen for me because of my need of proof that truth is the truth, not just an idea but REAL. Yes, God is REAL and I dont just say that because I wish it to be true, it is true.

So, I am curious now about what it is that you believe? Are you Atheist? Do you believe in any for of spirituality?


Sorry if this is scrambled a bit, I havent slept in a couple days and now I'm on opiates still coming down lol

Nice to meet a guy with couth in this world of one liners.

Much of what you say I am quite guilty of, and proud of. As should all who read this.

So should the majority of lurkers and participants of these places where so many monkeys on key boards will finally come up with the constructive eco system saving ideas.

Solutions to all problems will exist in this place and every place over the next short time.

We should all be tickled pink to be on the winning teem of the upcoming universal thinking.

Political and spiritual sides will meld and end the destructive polarization that is driving us to extinction.

Only intelligence will solve world problems and we are a part of the intelligentsia in one position or another.

We should proudly step up and admit it. If we would, most problems would solve themselves to their best end.

We just have to get mad. We are too nice as a species.

Well directed tough love might be the order of the day, to save the planet.

You wondered of my faith.

Faith for the spirit is wonderful. Faith for us in reality here in the real world, is for fools.

BTW. Religion and faith have nothing to do with each other. Religion is tribe and division. faith is for the spirit, as Jesus says.

IOW, the Gnostic notion of a spark of god within. The unknown god.

The real you and I and intelligence of all souls, here and now.

That is the telepathic spirit realm and connection to god. You an I. Timelessness. Un petit mort. A small death. Rebirthing to a Christ consciousness.

Pleasure and pain. It hurts for a long 6s of infinity for me.

I will address your other points soon.

Regards
DL

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Yahweh is a capricious, vindictive and often hateful god. He is certainly not "the god" that monotheism refers to. He can be worked with or thwarted. Lots of other gods and spirits can't stand him, and saying his name in their presence will offend them.

There are much better deities to work with, if you feel like going the deity route.

Which deities, gods, or goddesses are these? Would any of them be very old Vedic or Hindu gods or goddesses? How do you know these gods, goddesses, and spirits get offended or what offends them? Does this mean they do not like Judaism?

 

[Staying Sober]

Nice to meet a guy with couth in this world of one liners.

Much of what you say I am quite guilty of, and proud of. As should all who read this.

So should the majority of lurkers and participants of these places where so many monkeys on key boards will finally come up with the constructive eco system saving ideas.

Solutions to all problems will exist in this place and every place over the next short time.

We should all be tickled pink to be on the winning teem of the upcoming universal thinking.

Political and spiritual sides will meld and end the destructive polarization that is driving us to extinction.

Only intelligence will solve world problems and we are a part of the intelligentsia in one position or another.

We should proudly step up and admit it. If we would, most problems would solve themselves to their best end.

We just have to get mad. We are too nice as a species.

Well directed tough love might be the order of the day, to save the planet.

You wondered of my faith.

Faith for the spirit is wonderful. Faith for us in reality here in the real world, is for fools.

BTW. Religion and faith have nothing to do with each other. Religion is tribe and division. faith is for the spirit, as Jesus says.

IOW, the Gnostic notion of a spark of god within. The unknown god.

The real you and I and intelligence of all souls, here and now.

That is the telepathic spirit realm and connection to god. You an I. Timelessness. Un petit mort. A small death. Rebirthing to a Christ consciousness.

Pleasure and pain. It hurts for a long 6s of infinity for me.

I will address your other points soon.

Regards
DL

Wise, comforting, and diplomatic. Beautiful outlook on a touchy, yet necessary realization of the truth. This is a perfect time for growth and living up to potential life changing perspective updates.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I am not a religious person but I am not anti religion either.

We are all religious from birth. Our tribal and fellowship instinct, likely from the moment of consciousness.

We are born with wonder and the goal it sets is to get us humans to it's and our species to our best possible end.

We are born fascist as demonstrated by that trait being in everyone. Especially right wing mended people. The most moral, but the worst able to implement the proper ethics that only the left can provide.

We are all designed to build walls of security around us.

Our selfish gene is the boss and our bodies the slave to the new identity.

We give up our freedom for security. We should take freedom and know that we can never have it, other than the full freedom of the person.

This is all good, till we start to compete.

Truthfully I wished I could be one of them but I couldn't lie and say I believed something that was not truth. It actually caused me a lot of anger and frustration as a young person.

All character building traits that you do not see. Strong desire to be the fittest.

Truthfully I wished I could be one of them

Leader of the pack. Good.

but I couldn't lie and say I believed something that was not truth.

I do not agree here. Lie as required. think duality.

Over time things changed and I experienced things that changed my life that I never thought could possibly happen. I won't get into all of that, as I'm sure you dont care to hear it anyway.

Lie. Go to jail Trump.

I like anecdotal renderings. Can you beat my provable telepathy?

These days I would never disrespect anyone for their faith,

I am not anti religion either.

Anti-tribalism is likely impossible. That remains an assumption. Survival for a single human is near impossible. Our selfish gene will not allow it.

At the same time, we all want to rule the tribe and be the fittest.

Hating the tribe is good. We all want to be the force that creates change.

A good change is to get religions out of our faces. We have enough shit hitting us world without having to care about what people are calling their fucking gods.

That is why I promote laïcité. The future. We have to for the upcoming people crisis.

A man without a cause is not the fittest. We have sheeple and their lying leadership coming out of our eh, anal orifices.

My pet peeve and causes of spitual displeasure, is to have people recognize,--- that the better ethics is on the left, non-belief side, --- and ask the right to ease up on their hate and slide to the left.

Living in a less evil and more ethical country is great.

Believing countries and their people should try it.

They might fucking like it.

I believe in God in a way that I never thought could happen for me because of my need of proof that truth is the truth, not just an idea but REAL. Yes, God is REAL and I dont just say that because I wish it to be true, it is true.

Good.

You are now I am. Let your Jesus consciousness become the Christ. Think more demographically.

Hate everyone and let your light shine.

I look forward to seeing him through you. I have questions.

So, I am curious now about what it is that you believe? Are you Atheist? Do you believe in any for of spirituality?

I believe what I have proven and assumed to be real. If it works, don't fix it.

I have evidence that their is another consciousness above that of individual humans, and that it can and does effect some humans.

All positive FMPOV.

Some would call that alien contact. A Christian hounded me to me call it a miracle. It is not though.

I am not an atheist but respect is growing with their mystery schools and churches. Better parenting that.

I indicated above that we are all born believers, with an agenda of best end. The Yin and Yang of tribalism.

As to spirituality; it is a given as all humans love ourselves from birth.

We also love the connection to the astral consciousness of the godhead and tribe behind him.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Wise, comforting, and diplomatic. Beautiful outlook on a touchy, yet necessary realization of the truth. This is a perfect time for growth and living up to potential life changing perspective updates.

I thank you much for this.

Make it happen. You actually can.

Raise a little hell.

Regards
DL

 

[Gormur]

We are all religious from birth.

This time I don't agree because I've never been religious

 

[quaalMan]

They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.

The point though is that people freely accept the Lord, otherwise they would be automaton. So by definition people have to be able to go against His will.

Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?

God == Jesus == Body of Christ == Believers
Getting close to blasphemy here, but Jesus is essentially an egeregore made up of individual souls. Similar to a corporation, or to cells in the body (All working to support one will). The big difference is that the egeregore in this case existed first, He is the necessary existent in philosophy terms.

Life is essentially a sorting algorithm for which souls get to become part of God (wheat/sheep) vs. not (chaff/goats). Ideally every soul would work out, but again that would deny autonomy.

Yes, God is REAL and I dont just say that because I wish it to be true, it is true.

Yep, this is something non-believers don't seem to get. It's not really possible to convince a believer that God doesn't exist, since it's subjectively provable. It would be similar to you trying to argue I'm not conscious. I can easily prove to myself I'm conscious, but there's no way to objectively show I'm not your delusion/dream.

BTW. Religion and faith have nothing to do with each other. Religion is tribe and division. faith is for the spirit, as Jesus says.

Agreed for the most part. Large organized religion has always been a scourge, and the Bible warns a ton of false teachers who prop themselves up, make up nonsense, have no charity, etc.

That's actually one reason I'm Christian, most of the other religions are explicitly tribal. Islam requires speaking specifically in their language, mormonism lol, judaism is based on genetics (The mother must be jewish), etc.

Actually I think the fact that Jesus was jewish is a somewhat neat trick. Since they rejected Him there is really no way to lay a racial/cultural claim of superiority. None of the other religions have that, their local people accepted the major figureheads.

A good change is to get religions out of our faces. We have enough shit hitting us world without having to care about what people are calling their fucking gods.

This misses the point why well-meaning believers are "in your face". Laying up treasures here in this life is pointless, you're dead a lot more often than alive. So to them people are choosing fleeting pleasures/status over long term gain.

I will admit though most people do use religion to force political/personal agendas onto others.

Living in a less evil and more ethical country is great.

This is a core problem of no/pagan-like religion. What authority do people have to say "less evil" or "ethical", if there is no objective standard of morality? As much as we don't like it "might makes right". The loser will always be vilified and seen as wrong (See any post-war propaganda, or read court opinions against plebs).

The hopeful thing about Christianity is that the most powerful force really does want us to act as a brothers and sisters, not as warring enemies vying for power.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

This time I don't agree because I've never been religious

Your definition is off the mark.

Religion means tribal and we are all born tribal.

Regards
DL