• MDMA &
    Empathogenic
    Drugs

    Welcome Guest!
  • MDMA Moderators:

alternative(s) to MDMA that don't deplete 5HT

^ cocaine is a serotonin, norephinephrine, and dopamine reuptake inhibitor so yes, it releases serotonin by blocking the action of SERT.

So many people are recommending 2C-B... I just can't see it. If you're looking for MDMA and you take a psychedelic, things can go south really fast.
 
MagickalKat777 said:
^ cocaine is a serotonin, norephinephrine, and dopamine reuptake inhibitor so yes, it releases serotonin by blocking the action of SERT.

So many people are recommending 2C-B... I just can't see it. If you're looking for MDMA and you take a psychedelic, things can go south really fast.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I definitely don't like 2C-B for an MDMA substitute.
 
2c-b is psychedelic and is not comparable to mdma. I was going to mention cocaine earlier. It would be a step in the right direction as per the serotonin depletion worries. If you could find really good coke (and keep it under control ... lol). I still like methylone as the best choice due to it being less compulsive than coke. I dont deny it doesnt affect serotonin but its not as harsh as other classics. That being said noone can promise you will not experience side effects.
 
MagickalKat777 said:
^ cocaine is a serotonin, norephinephrine, and dopamine reuptake inhibitor so yes, it releases serotonin by blocking the action of SERT.

So many people are recommending 2C-B... I just can't see it. If you're looking for MDMA and you take a psychedelic, things can go south really fast.
Click to expand...


Actually it just blocks serotonin from leaving the synapse, causing a buildup instead of causing an actual release of serotonin the way MDMA does. That's why people can binge on cocaine quite often while if they tried to do so similarly with MDMA they would be in for quite the comedown..
 
Folley said:
Actually it just blocks serotonin from leaving the synapse, causing a buildup instead of causing an actual release of serotonin the way MDMA does. That's why people can binge on cocaine quite often while if they tried to do so similarly with MDMA they would be in for quite the comedown..
Click to expand...

Cocaine is primarily dopaminergic. I don't want to get into a debate about the functions of releasers and inhibitors as its irrelevant here. You shot down methylone saying that it depletes serotonin like MDMA when all signs point to the fact that it does not and it is well known that it has significantly less affinity for SERT than it does for DAT and NET. The same argument applies with cocaine.If you are avoiding serotonergic drugs, you should be avoiding cocaine as well as it is, in fact, serotonergic.
 
I wasn't debating anything, only expanding on a certain point. You're right, people who are staying away from MDMA probably should not do cocaine either... I didn't imply that however.


Saying methylone "does not deplete serotonin" based on the fact you don't get a comedown is not exactly HR, however. All studies show that methylone causes a direct release of serotonin, albeit at a lower rate than MDMA. The title of the thread directly states that he wants something that will not deplete serotonin... methylone is not a good candidate.

That's my opinion, you're free to disagree if you wish.
 
I never once said that methylone does not deplete serotonin, I said that it is much lower than MDMA. I did say that in my experience, it doesn't cause MDMA style crashes, likely due to its relatively weak effects on serotonin, but that's entirely different from saying its safe. I've said many times in this thread that the best solution is to avoid serotonergics period and I stand behind that.

I do not believe that your recommendation of 2C-B is in the realm of harm reduction or responsible either Folley. 2C-B is not an empathogen. Its a psychedelic with some decent empathogenic effects but someone looking for something comparable to MDMA would be disappointed at a minimum and potentially end up in a tough spot at the worst. On top of that, I'm not entirely too sure that serotonin agonists are a good idea either when you're trying to recover from an MDMA comedown although I'm not aware of any direct data on this. Generally speaking, psychedelics bring attention to the issues weighing on your mind. If you are in a state of mind where you're afraid about things like "will x drug worsen my problems" then you run a high risk of causing problems by convincing yourself of it and shouldn't use any drugs until the fear of making things worse is gone which I've also stated in the thread.
 
^ Is 5-MeO-MiPT an empathogen..? Is it exempt from any of the things you just mentioned?


obviously set and setting should always be watched with psychedelics. I cant be there to hold everyone's hand, people need to make some common sense decisions to decide if a drug like 2C is going to be up their alley or not.
 
Low doses of 5-MeO-MiPT are void of significant psychedelia. Its even less psychedelic than MDMA itself until you get over the 8-10mg range when it starts turning more into a novel psychedelic. At low doses, it has a buzz that isn't unlike MDMA. Its euphoric, energizing, and at times its quite erotic. Unlike most of the 5-methoxy tryptamines, it doesn't have much in the way of a bodyload. The only thing I ever noticed from it was a slight heart rate increase but I wouldn't put it as high as MDA, kind of inbetween MDMA and MDA, approximately 15-20BPM increase.

It has negligible affinity for SERT (its the lowest receptor affinity and below what is considered to be part of the drug's effects) so it doesn't increase serotonin depletion. Its actually got the most affinity for 5-HT1A.

Its no MDMA but its the closest you will get to MDMA out of the tryptamine family without serotonin release (aMT).
 
I'd say low doses of 2C-B are rather devoid of any "psychedelic" effects, also. It's just a clash of opinions at this point. I'm sure the reader can read the points made here, take a look at the drugs in questions and decide for themselves what is best.



Several studies have said that 2C-B is a VERY benign drug as far as toxicity is concerned and it has a very high safety portfolio, so I wouldn't completely discount it in place of Moxy.

Its euphoric, energizing, and at times its quite erotic.
Click to expand...

This describes 2C-B perfectly. As I said, it's a matter of opinion now. My opinion obviously differs from yours.. that's fine. :)





Actually, come to think of it.. both Foxy/Moxy and 2C-B have been sold as "MDMA", more than ANY other psychedelics really. 2C-B pills usually seem to become almost a collectors items while as the Foxy pills are usually met with some quite negative reports on Pillreports... if you really wanted to see which drug would be better if you're expecting MDMA, it might be worthwhile to go back and read trip reports of someone who took them thinking it would be ecstasy.
 
i had it only once but i cant recommend 2c-b enough.... its like mdma,little psychedelic,little less intense but it lacks all the bad effects,no comedown,no gurns,no heart racing,no sweet niagara falls,much more control and inteligence... no herpa derp social embarasment fail that make u cringe forever lol
 
Last edited:
I take back what I said before...I tried a minuscule dose of 2cb and found it to be very pleasant and MDMA-ish. No visuals but colour and sound enhancement, but it is more speedy than MDMA. The key is dosage. I must have had like 2-4mg. Any above 6 and I think you will just trip.

It seems to be a bit of a lucky dip thing, but I got lucky and it was very similar to MDMA.
 
^ but see, this is the problem with 2C-B and other phenethylamines. There are a number of phenethylamines that have a pleasant MDMA type body high but its not predictable what you're going to get. You can get pure stimulation from the same dose you took a month ago and "rolled" on and it just takes a few milligrams to completely change the character so its actually a trip.
 
Yeah, that is certainly true, which is why I was at first surprised to see it listed as an MDMA-like drug because my experiences had always been more LSD-like and most people I'd seen on the stuff were acting pretty weird. Maybe I was acting weird too, but I was having fun. Got the giggles for awhile, I think more people thought I was on MDMA because I wouldn't shut up and found everything funny. Actually it's kind of like being stoned, but having heaps of energy.

I did do a teeny tiny dose though, like I just dipped my finger in a dregs bag. Then later on I re-dosed with a few more mg and the stoning effect was enhanced, but not psychedelic effects. I could see how it could go down hill though as I wanted to take more, which would have resulted in a trip. Luckily I have reasonably good self control.

Best to use a mg scale. I have one and weighed out 7mg for my boyfriend, which seemed to be the right dose for a mild trip.

I had the dregs from his bag, so 3mg. So if you can weigh it accurately you should be able to achieve the MDMA high. I actually found it more fun than MDMA, but maybe because I've been using MDMA for too long. Certainly had that 'magic' that MDMA has, maybe an extra spark too. Reminded me of MDA a lot, although MDA is more gung ho.

2cb is very speedy though. When my boyfriend first tried a 5mg dose we were at home having drinks with friends and he disappeared for awhile during the come up. I found him pacing around in his room trying to unload all the energy - just walking around his room with this big stupid grin on his face. He was happy as a pig in mud, but it was very weird. And then when he finally sat down, his foot wouldn't stop tapping up and down like a jack hammer - like someone tweaking. So yeah, it can make you a bit of social retard, but you're not anxious about it like with acid (although some people can get anxious on higher doses). But people taking 2cb should be aware you probably want to be at a party or a club or something and not just alone in your room.
 
Last edited:
2cb is very speedy though. When my boyfriend first tried a 5mg dose we were at home having drinks with friends and he disappeared for awhile during the come up. I found him pacing around in his room trying to unload all the energy - just walking around his room with this big stupid grin on his face. He was happy as a pig in mud, but it was very weird. And then when he finally sat down, his foot wouldn't stop tapping up and down like a jack hammer - like someone tweaking.
Click to expand...

That sounds too much like 2C-I to me. 2C-I had a very distinct MDMA like buzz... but the stimulation... oh my god the stimulation... Thanks but no thanks. When you're starting a trip after running around the block like 5 times and you STILL can't sit still, that's just too much. Its actually because of 2C-I's stimulation that I decided against 2C-B.
 
That's like saying I disregarded MiPT because of DiPT's body load.. I didn't really like 2C-I, it had nothing of the light hearted joy that 2C-B can bring.


I think you'd be hard pressed to say that phenethylamines are going to cause more problems than tryptamines (in this regard), but both 2C-B and 5-MeO-M/DiPT seem to be the more light hearted and "fun" drugs in their respective classes.





Also, I think MXE can be GREAT for MDMA-like enhancement. I used to love taking low doses and mashing it up on the turntables and dancing for hours, it really is fantastic IMO and can be used very often with little physical damage. The only major problem with it can be that it can be very habitual for some people.... so do try and not develop any bad habits with it.
 
5-MeO-DiPT is anything but light. I've witnessed the psychosis from that crap first hand. :\

I'm not the first one to draw comparisons between 2C-I and 2C-B. The general consensus is that both of them are quite stimulating.

I also disagree with phenethylamines not causing more problems than tryptamines... More drugs in the phenethylamine family have a tendency to kill than the drugs in the tryptamine family. Even with how widespread 5-MeO-aMT was at one point, you only heard about a few deaths. Then you look at 2C-T-7, the NBOMe phenethylamines, amphetamines... it becomes quite clear that phenethylamines are far more dangerous than tryptamines in general practice. There's something to be said for drugs that are similar to norepinephrine versus drugs that share structural similarity with serotonin and its pervasive throughout the entire family. You're far more likely to suffer long term consequences from a phenethylamine than you are from a tryptamine.

2C-B and 2C-I have more in common than MiPT and DiPT by the way. They only differ by their respective bromine and iodine. Everything else is the same between them both. Its far more logical to compare 2C-B to 2C-I and DOB to DOI than it is to compare MiPT to DiPT or 5-MeO-MiPT to 5-MeO-DiPT.
 
Ugh, the site is broken for me so I can't edit.

I agree with you on low dose methoxetamine although I don't know how suitable it is for a club environment. Even small doses of it screw my speech up to the point of it being amusing.
 
Perhaps closer structurally yet I don't think the effects are similar in the least bit. No more similar than LSD is to DOC in effect.


2C-T-x and NBOMes certainly don't share the same safety profiles as 2C-B, but most deaths attributed to those are due to human error and simple lapses of judgement. The NBOMes are a bit scarier, though. Any drugs with potency like that need to be very closely monitored.
 
Well comparing LSD to DOC is two entirely different classes altogether lol.

I get your point though.

I don't know, it always seems like phenethylamines have more physical issues than tryptamines while tryptamines are more likely to cause mental issues. I guess either way, there is no way to win the argument.

Low doses of most things can evoke a mild "roll" in my experience. Even DXM did it to me and my first time tripping on shrooms I was so euphoric I was moaning :p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top