alternative(s) to MDMA that don't deplete 5HT

[LucidSDreamr]

MXE (10-20 mg) followed by adderall is the closest thing i've tried. light doses of 25I NBOME can be close as well., neither of these are as trippy as 2CB

 

[Black]

There's not enough data on methylone to suggest that it actually depletes 5-HT in any significant amount though that I'm aware of. DXM is a serotonin releaser and it isn't associated with serotonin depletion.

as far as i know, there also isn't enough data to the contrary.

iirc (?) methylone doesn't inhibit tryptophan hydroxylase, so we might see less depletion and therefore less "low-serotonin" symptoms (brain zaps and the like). but for recovery of serotonin receptor density that's not necessarily a good thing. also for neurotoxicity (if it does occur with responsible doses of mdma) i think it wouldn't make any difference. it's rather in the days following dosing that i would expect less depression and the like (at least concerning low serotonin).

i'm not sure of SERT affinity has a lot to do with serotonin depletion either. mdma has a surprisingly low affinity (for some of its proposed mechanisms of action) for SERT and 6-APB appears not to act on SERT at all (while obviously releasing serotonin and having rather similar effects judging by the reports on here).

we cannot really answer that question yet with current knowledge. how these drugs exactly release serotonin is still not known. my own hypothesis is, that the 5-HT2B receptor is central here, but if methylone turns out has no affinity for it, then i'm surely wrong. afaik it hasn't been tested against that receptor yet.

 

[MagickalKat777]

That's the problem - all of the data that has been "known" is now up for debate.

The best thing to do is just to not take any serotonergics at all for awhile.

 

[ScaredFirstTimer]

The best thing to do is just to not take any serotonergics at all for awhile.

The best thing to do is avoid serotonergic drugs altogether in this situation but MDXX drugs are among the few that actually deplete serotonin levels to the point of being damaging.

Let's say you suffer a MDMA induced comedown for 4-6 months, then keep clean for 3 months after you've recovered to 100%. Would you say that that's enough time to start dabbling with stuff like methylone or 2c-b?

 

[JWills20]

Methylone is your best bet. At a third of the potency for serotonin release, you'll find it much harder to deplete your 5-HT. If you took enough I'm sure you could though! Keep doses moderate (150-200mg) and avoid too many redoses.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Let's say you suffer a MDMA induced comedown for 4-6 months, then keep clean for 3 months after you've recovered to 100%. Would you say that that's enough time to start dabbling with stuff like methylone or 2c-b?

As long as you're in the state of mind to where you aren't afraid of another bad comedown. If you are over the emotional scars of what happened with your MDMA comedown, you will be fine. If you go into it being scared of a bad comedown, you can spark one with any substance. Remember, drugs amplify anything that we have in our mind. Neither methylone or 2C-B has the "happy" push of MDMA. They're euphoric but they don't force a good time like MDMA does and 2C-B is a psychedelic and while not common, bad trips can happen.

With that said, methylone is less psychedelic than both MDMA and 2C-B so in the right setting you will predictably have a great time with it as long as you keep your doses low (the ones JWills suggested are about right). My methylone 'sweet spot' is 170mg and at that dose, I find the perfect balance of intensity to side effects. Above that, I don't find any real benefit and just added side effects and even more compulsion to redose than normal. A single booster 1 hour into the experience of no more than 70mg will get you an extra 45 minutes out of it but any redose beyond that can make for a stimulated comedown which is obnoxious and anxious so keep that in mind.

 

[Folley]

Methylone is your best bet.

How so? Methylone still will lead to 5-HT (among other neruotransmitters) downregulation and still has the potential to increase any damage that was previously done by the MDMA.



I'll say it one last time. If you are abstaining from MDxx type drugs, DO NOT take methylone at least until you have had a proper break in between. It may not cause the same kind of damage that MDMA will to begin with, but the LAST thing it's going to do is make things better.


If you want a drug with little to no serotonin release, methylone is not the right thing to be taking. There are a number of other "party" drugs that won't work in almost literally the same exact way that MDMA does.... if you are taking a break and waiting for 5-HT levels to increase I would recommend taking psychedelics instead of cathinones/amphetamines that will directly cause neuronal damage akin to MDxx.


2C-B is my personal recommendation, LSD is great but only for certain settings. MXE can be amazing in a party setting as well, you just need to keep the dose rather low.

 

[jamezexe43]

There really is nothing safer than molly. If you look at recent studies, its not bad in the long term

 

[rettolb]

There really is nothing safer than molly. If you look at recent studies, its not bad in the long term

That is if what you are ingesting is actually molly... im absolutely sick of everyone in my area selling 'mollys' with zero mdma...
But yea, real deal Md is my favorite and is relatively safe if used in the correct manner.
Kind of messed up that the law considers it more dangerous thsn any other 'hard drug' tho, I was convicted of "Delivery/Manufacture of methamphetamine or a drug commonly known as Ecstacy" and it has harsher guidelines than delivery of heroin... and to top it off it gets shortened on my record so it looks like I ran a methlab or something..
Sorry im off topic, lol, ill end my rant

 

[jess046]

BK-MDMA, Mephedrone and Meth for drugs that still act on 5HT but are not as bad as MDMA. You will still get affects from them even if you have a high tolerance to MDMA.

Amphetamines.

Cocaine.

That's about it really. I don't think 2cb is really like MDMA much, I am always surprised when people recommend it. I've seen people seriously freak out on small doses. It's a psychedelic first and foremost. The body load is not like an MDMA high at all, it is much more similar to LSD.

 

[black53]

Al-lad if you can get it.

 

[Si Dread]

If you can recomend Al-Lad, I can recomend DOC.

DOC is a psychedelic phenethylamine from a similar class of compounds to MDMA. The effects are of course, not at all like MDMA, DOC is a proper psychedelic, with the added advantage of being vaguely stimulating at low doses. It's very long acting, lasts about 4 times as long as MDMA, & it's active in tiny doses, making it about a hundred times stronge than MDMA. But it's a beautiful psychedelic, & if you can get round the risks posed by the minute doses & the duration, I reckon it's a highly suitable alternative to MDMA. Al-lad would be equally suitable for anyone comfortable tripping at a rave but it doesn't last anywhere near as long.

For anyone else who's recovering their serotonin system, I have yet to find any stimulant RC that can be used without a return of brain zaps, depression/anxiety, sleep/appetite disturbance. The only way to recover the system is to leave all stimulants altogether. Methylone & the flourinated amphetamines all bring about a delayed recovery & extended come-downs when used with an already damaged serotonin system.

 

[ScaredFirstTimer]

How does Cocaine affect the serotonin system? I know it's a triple reuptake inhibitor, but isn't it relatively safe, atleast if one feels 100% recovered from the comedown for a while?

 

[Si Dread]

If I had had good cocaine more than once in my entire life I'd have gone to some effort to find out, because not having any useful stimulants for the last 12 months has ground my social life to a slow halt...

 

[Folley]

^ Cocaine isn't exactly a "useful stimulant", lol.



I couldn't see DOC personally, it made it very hard to find a good song for myself... I imagine at a rave that would be awful. 2C-B was a lot "kinder" in the psychedelic sense, it seems to lack the COMPLETE mind bending trip that other psychedelics can bring but it can still lead to some VERY intense trips if you aren't careful.

In reality, there probably is no TRUE empathogen that will not work on 5-HT.

 

[no_id]

4-FA deplete a bit serotonin, but for a very short time according to a studie I read week ago (24h in rats)... Will give the link if I find it. For sure don't expect a strong roll.

For me kratom have a kind empathogenic effect (or at least social effect), and it's 0% serotonergic

 

[Yeetbeat]

Even though it's nothing like what I was looking for, I've recently discovered how useful the effects of a mild Kanna hit with weed and tobacco can be for the purpose of increasing sociability, reducing inhibitions, and simply an anxiolytic. Might crush up a bit of kanna and roll it into some joints to take out one night, see how that goes. Sure, it won't be ANYTHING like a roll, but at least I should be able to go out and have a relaxing social night minus the ridiculous dancing for hours on end

 

[Septonn]

^^ I've read the same article I think (the one where they compare 4-fluoro to 4-chloro and bromo?), but since I'm absolutely uneducated in neuroscience I don't have the slightest clue whether any of these findings can somehow be extrapolated to human beings. I do know that we share a part of our genetic and biological characteristics with mice/ rats but I don't think the simple logic of 'it works this way in rodents, so it works this way in humans too' applies? Anyone with more knowledge on this?

 

[Maiasmokk]

my experiences with 5 and 6 APB held many similarities with MDMA,(very nice rushing and 'i realllllly love everytinggg right now(?)') but also become a bit psychedelic and drawn out in the end-- very hard getting to sleep!! but I'd agree with methylone being the most similar to Mandy minus the usual next day/week/month blues.

 

[Desohigh]

Cocaine releases serotonin? Huh?
If it's cut with amphetamines ofc yes, (and in my country it's often cut with them, I can understand when your dick doesn't react when it has to :D)

Methylone is also release serotonin, and has a hangover similar to MDMA, I don't really recommend it if you're going to give break to relax your serotonin system.
2c-b, mushroom, lsd all the way!