7th Issue Heroin Discussion Thread v. the hero in our lives

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why dont one of you wankers step up and start movin some weight around yourselves?

i grew up a fuckin screw up
got introduced to the game
got an ounce
and fuckin blew up

orly? is dat some fiddy cent lyrics?

where'd it end up leading to in the end?:\ not something to really promote about yourself on a board that's watched by LEO's
 
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What's this about a junk revival in Chinatown?

In the early seventies, practically all the UK street heroin came out of the Hong Kong Chinese community based around Gerrard Street in London's West End. A first rate scene with reliable, honest vendors and above all excellent dope, the 'Chinese Rocks' eulogised in song by the Ramones and Thunders' Heartbreakers.

Unfortunately, a localised supply centre is easily brought down and, when police swooped, the Chinese upped shutters and returned their focus to restaurant and gambling concerns. Not long afterwards, supporters of the deposed Shah fled the Iranian revolution and arrived in London with hurriedly packed suitcases full of smoking heroin. Needlefreaks turned to lemons and the stage was set for decades of inferior product.

Now, although I can't find the posts, there's a suggestion the Chinese are back in US business. Is there a revival of the fabled rocks? Goddamn Americans always seem to get the best of everything.
 
I know the UK has a shortage of quality heroin, but I persoanlly know a guy in Italy, and there the mafia brings in I assume all the heroin, he says they get #3 heroin from Afghanistan and also #4 SEA in Italy, tafficked in by Nigerian body couriers(swallow condoms of SEA powder and come into Italy) etc..Next the dope goes into the Netherlands and Spain, then somewhere along the line it hits the UK, cut to shit, and hits the street. The 1/2 of the #3 Afgani heroin goes into Russia through a different route than the dope going to Western Europe, and SEA #4 heroin is limited I think to mostly Italy, and some to The Netherlands, and none to the UK,..anyway the UK dope is cut heavily ,even though it is smuggled in there, the UK is a top consumer of heroin, among Italy,The Netherlands,Spain,Portugul,Germany, etc..

The UK dope is cut so much because of the importers IMO, becasue they know that for the past year or longer that UK dope has been so shitty, and sometimes not even around ,so they know that they can sell shitty dope there ,and someone will buy it, shitty compared to the past years quality anyway, actually a bit better than it was I hear sometimes than it has been in the last year, but still not up to pre-drought potentcys, I suppose becasue the dealers and importers can make so much more money by cutting the dope to last years potentcy or a bit better, making more money off less actual dope..
 
CCWhat's this about a junk revival in Chinatown?


Chi-Town- , midwestern sland for Chicago, the Windy City. Analogous to calling Birminghman, in the Midlands, nicknamed "Brum". It seems to be one of the dope hubs. Colombian $4 and Mex Tar with a smaller amount of SE Asian #4 and even a tinny amount Afghan dope. The SEA dope. I think brough in by Nigereians. At any rate its becomming the US capital for dope with a thriving scene in the inner city being suplanted by connections moving out to the suburbs.
 
Im really enjoying this current discussion... If you think about it the U.S. would have better H than say the UK because of trafficking routes and the like. Our dope coming from colombia or Mexico only has to make 1-3 stops at the most.

From colombia it usually goes through the carribean with a stop in Puerto Rico or the dominican and up the east coast or to a smaller extent through the gulf of mexico into New Orleans.

With Mexico it might go through a few people in Mexico but only has 1 international border to cross. And the cartels have been coming up with some incredible ways to get their product into U.S. hands.

Whereas the Afghan dope has so many borders to cross to get into the U.K. I think it will be interesting to see what happens with the Afghan dope in the next couple of years as troops pull out of that region.
 
^ Very interesting discussion indeed.

I am also curious to hear if there really was a notable increase in heroin, from the user standpoint, when the troops invaded Afghanistan. I heard it from the media, but never actually had the opportunity to hear it from the users, especially some of the veterans that are currently visiting us from the UK thread.
 
I dont see how there couldnt be a noticeable increase. When we invaded in 2002 the Heroin production went up ten-fold. Im curious to see how the Taliban will regulate the poppy production once we leave and they dont need billions of dollars to stay afloat anymore. Allthough im sure by this time they realize how much money they're making from H that it will probably increase or at the least stay the same production wise.
 
^ Very interesting discussion indeed.

I am also curious to hear if there really was a notable increase in heroin, from the user standpoint, when the troops invaded Afghanistan. I heard it from the media, but never actually had the opportunity to hear it from the users, especially some of the veterans that are currently visiting us from the UK thread.

thers wasn,t so much of a increase in quantity at that time,heroin was available before to much the same extent.what did happen was the cost price per unit to the end user halved almost overnight (latter part of 2001,i think) this price drop also happened around the period when they started to refine a majority of the heroin in afghanistan,as opposed to exporting morphine base which was refined in iran,pakistan and turkey to the finished product.
 
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^ Very interesting discussion indeed.

I am also curious to hear if there really was a notable increase in heroin, from the user standpoint, when the troops invaded Afghanistan. I heard it from the media, but never actually had the opportunity to hear it from the users, especially some of the veterans that are currently visiting us from the UK thread.

there was an increase , the price fell and quality, imo, stayed the same . an 8th of an oz cost me 2/3 what it did before, after we invaded . there was a short drought too at the start for about 2 months max might even of been less , nothing like this drought .:\
 
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^^^Yea i can see that happening when there isnt anymore outsourcing going on. Good point.
 
No drought just Bad Contacts............ Hahaha!!!

You are a moron for real. I really don't give a shit about Ireland or Scotland being in the UK. I meant the term UK as England and as far as I know Ireland isn't part of the UK, just Northern Ireland which you have no right occupying anyway, but that's a discussion for another day.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!! The above quote is a shining example of that!!! =D

Is this alteknj bloke for real? Hahaha! There is no drought? We all just have bad contacts!! So thats whats wrong?!Hehehehe!! I live in Dublin in Ireland, the last i knew Brimz wasn't occupying us? 8( BUT as for the drought or the bad contacts thing? Well then the WHOLE of Dublin must have bad contacts coz due to the drought my methadone clinic, which is in the middle of Dublin city center stopped doing the weekly drugs test on ALL of us from December to March because it was a waste of money because EVERYBODY was coming back clean for heroin because there was NO heroin in Ireland!!

So I better go tell the whole of Dublin that there isn't a drought, that in fact its just coz we ALL have bad contacts, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US!!! & while i'm at it i better tell them that Brimz has taken us over!

I bet they will all be well pissed off when they hear that the only reason that they haven't been able to score for 7 months is coz of their crap contacts & if thats not bad enough while we have all been sitting around feeling sorry for ourselves coz we can't score, Brimz is after sneaking in to Ireland & taking us all over!! Hehehehe!! I bet Brimz is after robbing all the gear as well & then told us that it was a drought!! The bastard!!!!

FFS i'm a 39 year old woman, why couldn't i have figured all that out for myself? My brain must be malfunctioning after all these years of abusing gear! Thanks alteknj for explaining it to me!! It all makes sense now!!! Hahahahaha!!! =D

Aw fair play to you alteknj, you have given me the best laugh that i've had in months!!! Fucken hilarious!!! An all time classic!! There is no drought, its just that ALL of Europe has Bad Contacts!!! Hahahahahaha!!!! Brilliant! Fucken BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!! =D
 
Im really enjoying this current discussion... If you think about it the U.S. would have better H than say the UK because of trafficking routes and the like. Our dope coming from colombia or Mexico only has to make 1-3 stops at the most.

From colombia it usually goes through the carribean with a stop in Puerto Rico or the dominican and up the east coast or to a smaller extent through the gulf of mexico into New Orleans.

With Mexico it might go through a few people in Mexico but only has 1 international border to cross. And the cartels have been coming up with some incredible ways to get their product into U.S. hands.

Whereas the Afghan dope has so many borders to cross to get into the U.K. I think it will be interesting to see what happens with the Afghan dope in the next couple of years as troops pull out of that region.

More Colombian Heroin comes into the US through New Orleans than people realize. New Orleans in the largest port for incoming South American cargo and the largest outgoing US port for cargo to South America. Anyway, most of the dope entering New Orleans (actually the port of louisiana, 1/2 way between New Orleans and Baton Rouge is the largest for SA cargo into the US and from the US to SA) most of the dope goes to other citys and regions of the US, while a small amount stays in New Orleans area. I know Newark, Philly, Baltimore,etc. all have large ports and get heroin directly from Colombia via Puerto Rico or some place, but the New Orleans/Port of Louisiana just handles so much more tonnage of cargo from SA than all other US ports, most ports combined do not handle 1/2 the tonnage of cargo from New Orleans area ports. So it makes sense that a lot of SA heroin and cocaine enter the US via New Olreans, plus i know people that work at a few ports in Louisiana and they know about large cargo containers that go uninspected by US customs and are moved on through to the containers that have been inspected and are ready to go onto a train as a rail car container or onto an 18 wheeler as the "trailer"..lol,,our crooked government officials can make more in one day of allowing one cargo container of "coffee" or something to go on through uninspected than they earn in a whole year from salary.This happens quite a bit from what I hear and Port of Louisiana ,and port of New Orleans customs agents , some of them live in big nice houses and drive new SUV's and so on, hmm, did not know the paid that much money per year!! lol..
 
Fucking shit to the UK poster above me a few, enough already! dude does not know the working of the UK drug dealers, and most americans do not either. Or understand why they are doing the "drought shit to you" ,except to make Money!!! I know people in Amsterdam, who can get good #3 dope and #4 dope all day long, never went dry there, I know an old dope head in Italy, he said they have more than enough #3 Afghani dope, and a lotta #4 SEA powder and it is high puirty, and the prices are low, becasue their is so much dope around there due to the Mafia, and Nigerian couriers importing SEA#4 for the Mafia..The UK needs some better dealers, or more dealers, from the people I know in Europe ,all but the UK has dope and has never run into a drought like you people have. Blame your drug importers greed for that, because if The Netherlands, Italy, Germany,Spain,etc. have cheap and good quality dope, then the UK should, except your drug importers are so greedy or stupid that they are going to milk the "drought" out as long as they can to make Money! lol, Some UK people need to stop complaining and take a trip to Spain,Italy, or The Netherlands, and get some dope and end the damn drought themselves instead of relying on an obviuosly ignorantly greedy drug mob, or whatever in the UK..
 
The USA Special Forces assisted the Northern Alliance in "Liberating Afgahnistan in oct 2001, I believe. Follow on forces took Kandahar in the South, spiritual home for the Taliban. In 2000, Mullah Omar, head of the Taliban, banned opium production as being un islamic. Analysts believe his real reason for doing this, having tolerated this practice for years, was not because he was bowing to international pressure, but because, the price of opium had dropped so he wanted to increase the supply making it more profitable, to raise more money for his impovershied country and his war on the Northern Alliance and other warlords hostile to Omar's regieme. The timeline of a drought in 2001 and quick increase in supply/ availability, a sharp increase in supply 2001-2007. The Bush adminidtration and US military and intelligence services made deals/alliances with opium growers and warlords involved in the processing and increasingly production, transport of the product. From this faction the USA Afghan CIA trained Counterrorism persuit Teams, effective weapons in the war against the Taliban were probably recruited. National Security became subservient to opium interdiction- besides most was going to Europe. Then 2003- Iraq started and our British, Dutch, and Spanish Allies followed us there. Afgahnistan was largely made subservient to the war in Iraq. The biggest stabalizing factor for heroin addicts in Europe and North American Markets supplied by Afghan #3- The Bush administration, in all its wisdom installed Karzai in a "democratic election" as President of Afghanistan. Extreemly corrupt and psychologically unstable, Karzai became the boss Tamany of Afghanistan, his half brother- a known profiteer and player in the drug trade in Helmund Province- that cordinated and took a cut of opium sales.

Now the Strategy under Obama has changed dramatically in Afghanistan along with other cited factors.

Then the Taliban have their own thing on the side.

Karzai- in a wikileaks message from Kabul Station US Embassy was complaining of UK troops in the south being incompetent, he was complaining because they were actively going after poppy growing in a campaign at this time (from 2010, or 09' I believe.) UK troops are very professional ( the ANA laughable).

So why is there a drought in Europe and not one here- Because with the painful budget cuts, and when the government was in less trouble, special interest stand to lose mass money (Pharmaceutical Companies, Prisoner guards Unions, LEOs, Probation departement, the Treatment industrial complex), ect, ect, ect...

I believe this is highly relevant- The gov of the UK and Eire decided that fighting dope was a priority for some reason, hence their drought.
 
Joseph D McNamara, an outspoken critic in the drug war currently and during his tenure of chief of police of San Jose 1976-1990 should know how the game works, i'm sure that in his over 30 years in LEO and as a chief of 2 of the USAs biggest cities (Kansas City and mostly San Jose), he is privy to insider info most of the public isn't. It should be noted that during his tenure San Jose was the safest major city in the USA (according to official FBI statitics). Darryl Gates said drug users should be executed because they are commiting treason while he was chief. We know what happened to his city (Rodney King riot, ect...)

4. Joseph D. McNamara

We turned next to a former police chief-Mr. McNamara was chief of police in Kansas City, Mo., and San Jose, Calif.-to inquire into the special problems of the war on drugs on the street. Mr. McNamara, who has a doctorate in public administration from Harvard, is the author of four books on policing and is currently a research fellow at the Hoover Institution.

T'S THE money, stupid." After 35 years as a police officer in three of the country's largest cities, that is my message to the righteous politicians who obstinately proclaim that a war on drugs will lead to a drug free America. About $500 worth of heroin or cocaine in a source country will bring in as much as $100,000 on the streets of an American city. All the cops, armies, prisons, and executions in the world cannot impede a market with that kind of tax-free profit margin. It is the illegality that permits the obscene markup, enriching drug traffickers, distributors, dealers, crooked cops, lawyers, judges, politicians, bankers, businessmen.

Naturally, these people are against reform of the drug laws. Drug crooks align themselves with their avowed enemies, such as the Drug Enforcement Administration, in opposing drug reform. They - are joined by many others with vested economic interests. President Eisenhower warned of a military-industrial complex that would elevate the defense budget unnecessarily. That military-industrial complex pales in comparison to the host of industries catering to our national puritanical hypocrisy-researchers willing to tell the government what it wants to hear, prison builders, correction and parole officers' associations, drug-testing companies, and dubious purveyors of anti-drug education. Mayor Schmoke is correct about the vested interests in the drug war.


Sadly, the police have been pushed into a war they did not start and cannot win. It was not the police who lobbied in 1914 for passage of the Harrison Act, which first criminalized drugs. It was the Protestant missionary societies in China, the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, and other such organizations that viewed the taking of psychoactive substances as sinful. These groups gradually got their religious tenets enacted into penal statutes under which the "sinners" go to jail. The religious origin is significant for two reasons. If drugs had been outlawed because the police had complained that drug use caused crime and disorder, the policy would have been more acceptable to the public and won more compliance. And the conviction that the use of certain drugs is immoral chills the ability to scrutinize rationally and to debate the effects of the drug war. When Ethan Nadelmann pointed out once that it was illogical for the most hazardous drugs, alcohol and nicotine, to be legal while less dangerous drugs were illegal, he was roundly denounced. A leading conservative supporter of the drug war contended that while alcohol and nicotine addiction was unhealthy and could even cost lives, addiction to illegal drugs could result in the loss of one's soul. No empirical proof was given.

The demonizing of these drugs and their users encourages demagoguery. William Bennett, the nation's first drug czar, would cut off the heads of drug sellers. Bennett's anti-drug rhetoric is echoed by Joseph Califano, the liberal former Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare, now chairman of the Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University. Last June, the Center hysterically suggested (with great media coverage) that binge drinking and other substance abuse were taking over the nation's colleges, leading to an increase in rapes, assaults, and murders and to the spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases. The validity of the research in Califano's report was persuasively debunked by Kathy McNamara-Meis, writing in Forbes Media Critic. She was equally critical of the media for accepting the Center's sensational statements.

Conservatives like Bennett normally advocate minimal government. Liberals like Califano ordinarily recoil from the draconian prison sentences and property seizures used in the drug war. This illustrates why it is so difficult to get politicians to concede that alternative approaches to drug control need to be studied. We are familiar with the perception that the first casualty in any war is truth. Eighty years of drug-war propaganda has so influenced public opinion that most politicians believe they will lose their jobs if their opponents can claim they are soft on drugs and crime. Yet, public doubt is growing. Gallup reports that in 1990 only 4 per cent of Americans believed that "arresting the people who use drugs" is the best way for the government to allocate resources.

It was my own experience as a policeman trying to enforce the laws against drugs that led me to change my attitude about drug-control policy. The analogy to the Vietnam War is fitting. I was a willing foot soldier at the start of the modern drug war, pounding a beat in Harlem. During the early 1960s, as heroin use spread, we made many arrests, but it did not take long before cops realized that arrests did not lessen drug selling or drug use.

I came to realize just how ineffective we were in deterring drug, use one day when my partner and I arrested an addict for possession of a hypodermic needle and heroin. Our prisoner had,already shot up, but the heroin charge we were prepared to level at him was based on the tiny residue in the bottle cap used to heat the fix. It was petty, but then-and now-such arrests are valued because they can be used to claim success, like the body counts during the Vietnam War.

In this case the addict offered to "give" us a pusher in exchange for letting him go. He would lure the pusher into a hallway where we could then arrest him in the act of selling drugs. We trailed the addict along Lenox Avenue. To our surprise, he spoke to one man after another.

It suddenly struck me as humiliating, the whole scene. Here it was, broad daylight. We were brilliantly visible, in uniform, in a marked police car: and yet a few feet away, our quarry was attempting one drug transaction after another. The first two dealers weren't deterred by our presence-they were simply sold out, and we could not arrest them without the goods. We finally arrested the third pusher, letting the first addict escape, as we had covenanted. The man we brought in was selling drugs only to support his own habit.

Another inherent difficulty in drug enforcement is that violators are engaging in consensual activity and seek privacy. Every day, millions of drug crimes similar to what took place in front of our police car occur without police knowledge. To enforce drug laws the police have to resort to undercover work, which is dangerous to them and also to innocent bystanders. Drug enforcement often involves questionable ethical behavior by the police, such as what we did in letting a guilty person go free because he enticed someone else into violating the law.

Soldiers in a war need to dehumanize the enemy, and many cops look on drug users as less than human. The former police chief of Los Angeles, Daryl Gates, testified before the United States Senate that casual users should be taken out and shot. He defended the statement to the Los Angeles Times by saying, "We're in a war." New York police officers convicted of beating and robbing drug dealers (their boss at the time is now Director of the White House's Office of National Drug Control Policy) rationalized their crimes by saying it was impossible to stop drug dealing and these guys were the enemy. Why should they get to keep all the money?

Police scandals are an untallied cost of the drug war. The FBI, the Drug Enforcement Administration and even the Coast Guard have had to admit to corruption. The gravity of the police crimes is as disturbing as the volume. In New Orleans, a uniformed cop in league with a drug dealer has been convicted of murdering her partner and shop owners during a robbery committed while she was on patrol. In Washington, D.C., and in Atlanta, cops in drug stings were arrested for stealing and taking bribes. New York State troopers falsified drug evidence that sent people to prison.

And it is not just the rank and file. The former police chief of Detroit went to prison for stealing police drug buy money. In a small New England town, the chief stole drugs from the evidence locker for his own use. And the DEA agent who arrested Panama's General Noriega is in jail for stealing laundered drug money.

The drug war is as lethal as it is corrupting. And the police and drug criminals are not the only casualties. An innocent 75-year-old African-American minister died of a heart attack struggling with Boston cops who were mistakenly arresting him because an informant had given them the wrong address. A rancher in Ventura County, California, was killed by a police SWAT team serving a search warrant in the mistaken belief that he was growing marijuana. In Los Angeles, a three-year-old girl died of gunshot wounds after her mother took a wrong turn into a street controlled by a drug-dealing gang. They fired on the car because it had invaded their marketplace.

The violence comes from the competition for illegal profits among dealers, not from crazed drug users. Professor Milton Friedman has estimated that as many as 10,000 additional homicides a year are plausibly attributed to the drug war.

Worse still, the drug war has become a race war in which non-whites are arrested and imprisoned at 4 to 5 times the rate whites are, even though most drug crimes are committed by whites. The Sentencing Research Project reports that one-third of black men are in jail or under penal supervision, largely because of drug arrests. The drug war has established thriving criminal enterprises which recruit teenagers into criminal careers.

It was such issues that engaged law-enforcement leaders-most of them police chiefs-from fifty agencies during a two-day conference at the Hoover Institution in May 1995. Among the speakers was our colleague in this symposium, Mayor Kurt Schmoke, who told the group that he had visited a high school and asked the students if the high dropout rate was due to kids' being hooked on drugs. He was told that the kids were dropping out because they were hooked on drug money, not drugs. He also told us that when he went to community meetings he would ask the audience three questions. 1) "Have we won the drug war?" People laughed. 2) "Are we winning the drug war?" People shook their heads. 3) "If we keep doing what we are doing will we have won the drug war in ten years?" The answer was a resounding No.

At the end of the conference, the police participants completed an evaluation form. Ninety per cent voted no confidence in the war on drugs. They were unanimous in favoring more treatment and education over more arrests and prisons. They were unanimous in recommending a presidential blue-ribbon commission to evaluate the drug war and to explore alternative methods of drug control. In sum, the tough-minded law-enforcement officials took positions directly contrary to those of Congress and the President.

One hopes that politicians will realize that no one can accuse them of being soft on drugs if they vote for changes suggested by many thoughtful people in -law enforcement. If the politicians tone down their rhetoric it will permit police leaders to expose the costs of our present drug-control policies. Public opinion will then allow policy changes to decriminalize marijuana and stop the arrest of hundreds of thousands of people every year. The enormous savings can be used for what the public really wants-the prevention of violent crime.

http://www.drugtext.org/library/spec...ugs/wodmcn.htm

What he said then is even more true today. If the US Gov wanted to curtail the flow of drugs- they might not stop the market but they could make it less available if they had the resources to waste.

Or do your own research- this shits all in the public domain.
 
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