Benzos The Benzodiazepine MEGA THREAD - Direct Benzo Questions Here

[nervousone]

posting a link out of a journal is a source, posting a random webpage not so much. words like "may" and "plausibly" don't work much in your favor either.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

look up kavalactones for yourself and not PYRONES and you will find that they act highly on GABA receptors.
even though you are wrong you will continue to argue you're right so im leaving this now.. someone else who knows what they're talking about back me up.

Kavalactones are the main psychoactive components of the roots of Piper methysticum (kava), a shrub common on some Pacific Ocean islands. Another class of compounds found in P. methysticum are the Flavokawains, which are substituted chalcones in nature and not lactones, and thus they are not kavalactones.
Extraction
The rhizome and roots of the shrub are ground, grated and steeped in water to produce a non-alcoholic drink which is said to promote sociability, mental clarity, and reduction of anxiety (see main kava entry) . The quantity and ratio of kavalactones present vary dramatically and are highest when roots are extracted with solvents rather than by conventional tea preparation (but note safety issues; see kava) .

Some use lipids to aid in kavalactone extraction. (ie; whole milk, oils, etc.)
Compounds
At least 18 different kavalactones have been identified to date, with Methysticin being the first identified. The Flavokawains are not kavalactones and as such are not included in the table below, which only lists natural kavalactones that have been identified in P. methysticum (and thus does not include pharmacologically interesting synthetic analogues, such as ethysticin).

Kavalactones: General structures


Kavalactones Name Structure R 1 R 2 R 3 R 4
Yangonin 1 -OCH 3 -H -H -H
10-methoxyyangonin 1 -OCH 3 -H -OCH 3 -H
11-methoxyyangonin 1 -OCH 3 -OCH 3 -H -H
11-hydroxyyangonin 1 -OCH 3 -OH -H -H
5,6-dehydrokavain 1 -H -H -H -H
11-methoxy-12-hydroxydehydrokavain 1 -OH -OCH 3 -H -H
7,8-dihydroyangonin 2 -OCH 3 -H -H -H
Kavain 3 -H -H -H -H
5-hydroxykavain 3 -H -H -H -OH
5,6-dihydroyangonin 3 -OCH 3 -H -H -H
7,8-dihydrokavain 4 -H -H -H -H
5,6,7,8-tetrahydroyangonin 4 -OCH 3 -H -H -H
5,6-dehydromethysticin 5 - - -H -H
Methysticin 7 - - -H -H
7,8-dihydromethysticin 8 - - -H -H
Effects
Effects of kavalactones include mild sedation, a slight numbing of the gums and mouth, and vivid dreams. Kava has been reported to improve cognitive performance and promote a cheerful mood. Muscle relaxant, anaesthetic, anticonvulsive and anxiolytic effects are thought to result from direct interactions of kavalactones with voltage-gated ion channels. Research currently suggests that kavalactones potentiate GABAA activity but do not alter levels of dopamine and serotonin in the CNS. Heavy, long-term kava use does not cause any reduction of ability in saccade and cognitive tests but is associated with elevated liver enzymes.

Desmethoxyyangonin, one of the six major kavalactones, is a reversible MAO-B inhibitor ( Ki 280 nM) and is able to increase dopamine levels in the nucleus accumbens. This finding might correspond to the slightly euphoric action of kava.

Kavain in both enantiomeric forms inhibit the reuptake of noradrenalin at the transporter ( NAT), but not of serotonin ( SERT). An elevated extracellular NA level in the brain may account for the reported enhancement of attention and focus with kava.
Adverse effects
The United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has warned that very rare cases of liver damage or fulminant liver failure may be caused by kava-containing supplements. However, these injuries might result from pipermethystine, an alkaloid present in portions of the plant used industrially but normally discarded in traditional preparations (see kava) .

 

[villian]

Did you even read that? It doesn't say any of what you claim, neither did the other post you deleted.

Kilham C. "Kava, an Ethnomedical Review". U-Mass Teaching Notes 2000 - 2005. 2006.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/kava/kava_article1.shtml

In the limbic system, a small organ the size of a chick pea, the amygdala (of which there are two, one left, one right), regulates feelings of fear and anxiety, and processes memories en route to the cerebral cortex. This little organ, whose name means "almond" due to its shape, is a significant site of activity for both the benzodiazepine class of drugs, and for the natural, tranquil plant drug kava. A 1989 National Advisory Mental Health Council report noted that "Benzodiazepine receptors are located in many different regions of the limbic system, as well as other parts of the brain. However, researchers found recently that benzodiazepine receptors are highly concentrated in a particular region of the brain called the amygdala that is critical to emotional processing, suggesting that this structure may be an important site of their action." In studies reported by Holm in 1991, the preferential site of action for both whole kava resin and synthesized kawain was the amygdala. However, unlike the benzodiazepines, the kavalactones did not appear to interact with GABA or its receptor sites, but operated by other, as yet unknown means.

.. someone else who knows what they're talking about back me up.

I agree, maybe it would be a good idea for you to leave the talking to the people who know what it is they are talking about.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

read the bold part
fuckin moron.. everyone knows kava is stronger than valerian, but you.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=521447

^ thought that thread was longer than it was.. my b

 

[villian]

read the bold part
fuckin moron.. everyone knows kava is stronger than valerian, but you.

So I'm a fucking moron because I agree with Erowid and the medical journals however you and dictionary.com (a leading source of scientific data, amirite? ) are right.

I'll keep that in mind.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

i don't know what your prob is wit me but seriously you need to learn a little more before you step up to me, saying valerian is stronger than kavalactones on GABA is just incorrect. Im sorry.

-outtie

 

[deaf eye]

i just know from my own experience, i have a hunch my gaba receptors are fucked
they need some healing,

when i was drinking valerian tea between my doses, i had hardly any anxiety i had no tinitius, shit was calm and life was pretty smooth, no wanting to stay inside, filled out job applications, i drank a cup or two before bed and within minutes i was asleep. and slept well ~ i was ready to reduce my dose since i was feeling good, the kava was just icing on the cake, with the condition i think my gaba receptors are in, i feel the effects of kava are minimal, i had the root, pills, paste, i tried em all
2 days ago i ran out tea and been using kava to take take the edge off ,till i get more tea
it helps a tiny bit but not like i felt when i had the valerian tea ~ i think the next taper would be a lot smoother with valerian,
heck maybe its just the way im wired it just makes me feel good, for a long time ive been tapering off benzos i been up and down feeling shitty, failing, cheating, but hey
i know jack shit

 

[realxsalo]

Triazolam its one of the best benzos that I have ever tried, BUT imo its the benzo that have more side effects. Lately I started to snort it and IT WORKS! so much faster and with the same buzz.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

i just know from my own experience, i have a hunch my gaba receptors are fucked
they need some healing,

when i was drinking valerian tea between my doses, i had hardly any anxiety i had no tinitius, shit was calm and life was pretty smooth, no wanting to stay inside, filled out job applications, i drank a cup or two before bed and within minutes i was asleep. and slept well ~ i was ready to reduce my dose since i was feeling good, the kava was just icing on the cake, with the condition i think my gaba receptors are in, i feel the effects of kava are minimal, i had the root, pills, paste, i tried em all
2 days ago i ran out tea and been using kava to take take the edge off ,till i get more tea
it helps a tiny bit but not like i felt when i had the valerian tea ~ i think the next taper would be a lot smoother with valerian,
heck maybe its just the way im wired it just makes me feel good, for a long time ive been tapering off benzos i been up and down feeling shitty, failing, cheating, but hey
i know jack shit

i am also w/ding off benzos but im not taking valerian or kava to help with the w/d's because i can handle w/d's because of the shit in my life that has made me strong emotionally and mentally and i can just go no pain no gain. But if valerian was stronger, wouldn't they make 80% extract out of that or full spectrum out of that instead of kava? ive been through 5 oz of kavalactone extract and i have a tincture of valerian and my cat loves that nasty smell.. anyways kavalactones work on GABA more than valerian.. even tho valerian is the starting point for veleric acid which in turn makes Depakote a mood stabilizer script.. but i guarentee if you buy some 80% kavalactone paste and take the size of a pea you will think you just popped 30mg's of valium. That was back before i had a tolerance to benzos, now i probly wouldn't even feel the whole little jar it comes in with my tolerance being 10mg clonazepam.
and why do you say you know jack shit?

NSFW:

Effects of kavalactones include mild sedation, a slight numbing of the gums and mouth, and vivid dreams. Kava has been reported to improve cognitive performance and promote a cheerful mood.[14] Kava has similar effects to benzodiazepine medications, including muscle relaxant, anaesthetic, anticonvulsive and anxiolytic effects. They are thought to result from direct interactions of kavalactones with voltage-gated ion channels.[15] Research currently suggests that kavalactones potentiate GABAA activity but do not alter levels of dopamine and serotonin in the CNS.[16] Heavy, long-term kava use does not cause any reduction of ability in saccade and cognitive tests but is associated with elevated liver enzymes.[17]

Desmethoxyyangonin, one of the six major kavalactones, is a reversible MAO-B inhibitor (Ki 280 nM)[18] and is able to increase dopamine levels in the nucleus accumbens. This finding might correspond to the slightly euphoric action of kava.[19]

Kavain, in both enantiomeric forms, inhibits the reuptake of noradrenalin at the transporter (NAT), but not of serotonin (SERT).[20] An elevated extracellular noradrenalin level in the brain may account for the reported enhancement of attention and focus.
[edit] Effects

Medical literature sometimes claim it has a "potential for addiction" because "it produces mild euphoria and relaxation"[21] In a traditional setting, a moderately potent kava drink causes effects within 20–30 minutes that last for about two and a half hours, but can be felt for up to eight hours. Some report longer term effects up to two days after ingestion, including a feeling of mental clarity, patience, and an ease of acceptance. The effects of kava are most often compared to alcohol, or a large dose of diazepam.

The sensations, in order of appearance, are slight tongue and lip numbing (the lips and skin surrounding may appear unusually pale); mildly talkative and sociable behavior; clear thinking; calmness; relaxed muscles; and a sense of well-being. As with other drugs that affect the GABA receptors, there can also be paradoxical dysphoria. The numbing of the mouth is caused by the two kavalactones kavain and dihydrokavain which cause the contraction of the blood vessels in these areas acting as a local topical anesthetic. These anesthetics can also make one's stomach feel numb. Sometimes this feeling has been mistaken for nausea. Some report that caffeine, consumed moderately in conjunction with kava can significantly increase mental alertness.

The effects of a kava drink vary widely with the particular selection of kava plant(s) and amount. A potent drink results in a faster onset with a lack of stimulation; the user's eyes become sensitive to light, they soon become somnolent and then have deep, dreamless sleep within 30 minutes. Sleep is often restful and there are pronounced periods of sleepiness correlating to the amount and potency of kava consumed. After wakening the drinker does not experience any mental or physical after effects.[citation needed] However, this sleep has been reported as extremely restful and the user often wakes up more stimulated than he or she normally would (though excessive consumption of exceptionally potent brew has been known to cause pronounced sleepiness into the next day). Although heavy doses can cause deep dreamless sleep, it is reported that many people experience lighter sleep and rather vivid dreams after drinking moderate amounts of kava.

^wiki

 

[doppelganga196]

Triazolam its one of the best benzos that I have ever tried, BUT imo its the benzo that have more side effects. Lately I started to snort it and IT WORKS! so much faster and with the same buzz.

I'm not asking for a source but can you give some indication of where you got Triazolam from? like online or something?

Again i'm not looking for a source it just baffles me people can get it, i didn't know there was any country that still has doctors prescribing it...

 

[kokaino]

I'm not asking for a source but can you give some indication of where you got Triazolam from? like online or something?

Again i'm not looking for a source it just baffles me people can get it, i didn't know there was any country that still has doctors prescribing it...

Most countries on earth still have triazolam on prescription. Canada, United States, France, Spain, Italy, and most of Europe (with the exception of a few countries like the UK, Ireland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Finland). Japan, Australia, and New Zealand still have it on script. Most of Asia does aswell. It's a benzo, just like any other.

It's banned in some countries, just like temazepam, nimetazepam and flunitrazepam are banned in some countries.

 

[LizaLane]

I heard it was unsafe to inject benzos but have a friend who said he injected Chlordiazepoxide Capsules into his upper hip muscle, I believe it was, after he said he diluted it in sodium chloride. He said it was much safer than the others. Is this crazy or is this fairly safe?

 

[euphoricc]

i would say crazy but hell if hes done it and u seem him>/ than maybe is possible benzos are full of binders fillers but hey to all his own i had no benzos for a while i jus got 18 xanax bars i was so happy i can jus chill out now twisted a\ooooooooo what a life peace my benzo buddies

 

[debaser]

Why inject benzos when the oral bioavailability is already very high (around 90 percent)? I don't get it.

 

[iruledudes]

Valium caused depression?

Last night I found an old packet of my room-mate's Valiums. Being the stupid person I am, I decided to see what it would be like to experience a benzo high. I took four 5mg tablets, and later on smoked a little bit of weed.

Yesterday (before I took the Valium) I was feeling depressed (I have mild depression which only really comes on randomly but not that often), but today I feel horribly depressed to the point that I want to cry for no reason. Even when I hung out with friends, I felt like crying.

I don't know whether I'm just having another depression relapse or whether it's because of the Valium and Pot.

What do you guys think?

 

[LizaLane]

It probably didn't help with the depression, I wouldn't think...though it sounds like it was already coming on. It may have ex·ac·er·bated it though.

Personally, I take Ativans, but don't try to take them everyday. I have had ativan in the hospital and have taken it orally, and for me they felt like two totally different drugs...but unlike my buddy, I would be scared to dilute it and do what he did. Like you said, it has fillers. I think one of them is corn starch and may gelitin...don't know how bad that is for the body, but doesn't sound good! It probably isn't as bad as going into the vein, but still can cause damage I am sure. But as far as taking it orally, I do know that for me the "legal" shot version that I have had in the hospital under doctor's care was way way better than the pill. The pill does little for me, whereas the other makes me feel really good! I could see why he likes it that way, but I am too whimpy to try it. I was wondering if his medicine being an older drug and being in capsule form might have less preservatives and/or other ingredients in it and maybe it was a little safer for him to get away with, esp since he wasn't doing it through his veins.

 

[LizaLane]

It probably didn't help with the depression, I wouldn't think since you took a fairly high dose...even though it was already coming on. It may have exacerbated it a good bit though. Pot in itself makes me paranoid like crazy...don't know if that would make you depressed, but wouldn't be surprised if the benzos didn't make it much worse.

About the other subject above: Personally, I take Ativans, but don't try to take them everyday. I have had ativan in the hospital and have taken it orally, and for me they felt like two totally different drugs...but unlike my buddy, I would be scared to dilute it and do what he did. Like you said, it has fillers. I think one of them is corn starch and may gelitin...don't know how bad that is for the body, but doesn't sound good! It probably isn't as bad as going into the vein, but still can cause damage I am sure. But as far as taking it orally, I do know that for me the "legal" shot version that I have had in the hospital under doctor's care was way way better than the pill. The pill does little for me, whereas the other makes me feel really good! I could see why he likes it that way, but I am too whimpy to try it. I was wondering if his medicine being an older drug and being in capsule form might have less preservatives and/or other ingredients in it and maybe it was a little safer for him to get away with, esp since he wasn't doing it through his veins.

 

[doppelganga196]

It probably didn't help with the depression, I wouldn't think since you took a fairly high dose...even though it was already coming on. It may have exacerbated it a good bit though. Pot in itself makes me paranoid like crazy...don't know if that would make you depressed, but wouldn't be surprised if the benzos didn't make it much worse.

About the other subject above: Personally, I take Ativans, but don't try to take them everyday. I have had ativan in the hospital and have taken it orally, and for me they felt like two totally different drugs...but unlike my buddy, I would be scared to dilute it and do what he did. Like you said, it has fillers. I think one of them is corn starch and may gelitin...don't know how bad that is for the body, but doesn't sound good! It probably isn't as bad as going into the vein, but still can cause damage I am sure. But as far as taking it orally, I do know that for me the "legal" shot version that I have had in the hospital under doctor's care was way way better than the pill. The pill does little for me, whereas the other makes me feel really good! I could see why he likes it that way, but I am too whimpy to try it. I was wondering if his medicine being an older drug and being in capsule form might have less preservatives and/or other ingredients in it and maybe it was a little safer for him to get away with, esp since he wasn't doing it through his veins.

Where was he doing it then, his muscles? Either way he might seem fine now but his entire circulatory system is undoubtedly unhappy. I've read of people who like to i.v benzos just to feel it come on sooner even if there is no rush & they ultimately wound up experiencing excruciating pain all over their body.

 

[Sublimit]

hey i currently get prescribed 25 2mg clonazepam tablets a week and it's indicated for anxiety. I'm currently tapering down slowly because of the effect it has on my sex drive. I also have trouble sleeping and because of the long HL of Clonazepam i just mainly dose once a day at night and it will hold me the 24 hours fine, but it's not, and never has been helping me sleep too well.

I want to ask my GP if he'd consider switching me to Hypnodorm. he knows how i dose and he knows that i'm having trouble sleeping but says he won't give me anything else because i'm already on one strong benzo. to be honest, I'm over clonazepam.... don't get me wrong, it's friggin great for anxiety, but i fancy trying the one benzo with legs that i've always wanted to get scripted to me.

So basically i'm wondering if it's worth asking for the switch..... i know it doesn't have quite as long HL as the Clonaz, and it's roughly the same strength.... so can Hypnodorm be indicated for anxiety and sleep issues? it would be like killing 2 birds with 1 stone and i'd still be reducing of the Benzo regardless,

just after anyone's opinion/experience with Hypnodorm being indicated for anxiety reasons primarily and as a sleeper for secondary reasons.... cheers

 

[Esoterik]

Wondering if anyone can tell me how effective Phenazepam is at sending you to sleep after taking psyches and stims?