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Mixing mushrooms with Oxycodone (feat. The Great Shroom Spirit Debate)

kandytime said:
just for future reference, shrooms are fucking drugs, not sacred teachers.
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Psilocybe mushrooms are actually a very complex mixture of different idolic compounds -- some of which we consider 'drugs' and some we don't.

I don't even want to get into the discussion of how this category we label as 'drugs' is a fictitious entity -- two compounds could have very little in common chemically and pharmacologically and still be grouped together under this 'drug' label.

Bottom line, though, is that all this talk of semantics is unimportant. Mushrooms aren't 'drugs', 'drug' is just a word -- an abstraction -- that our mind develops and projects onto the actual thing. What mushrooms actually are, or anything is for that matter, is different than the label that is applied to it. The actual things are much more nebulous.
 
Roger&Me said:
Psilocybe mushrooms are actually a very complex mixture of different idolic compounds -- some of which we consider 'drugs' and some we don't.

I don't even want to get into the discussion of how this category we label as 'drugs' is a fictitious entity -- two compounds could have very little in common chemically and pharmacologically and still be grouped together under this 'drug' label.

Bottom line, though, is that all this talk of semantics is unimportant. Mushrooms aren't 'drugs', 'drug' is just a word -- an abstraction -- that our mind develops and projects onto the actual thing. What mushrooms actually are, or anything is for that matter, is different than the label that is applied to it. The actual things are much more nebulous.
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Agreed. But can we also agree upon the notion that the belief of "plant spirits" has no value other than as a ritualistic meta-programming tool?:)

(i.e. no application in the aforementioned "real world" context, which, after all, is the one in which we pick the mushrooms, synthesize the chemicals, write our trip reports and so forth)
 
delusions such as the one you are suffering from.
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No need to get insulting.

real world is not set in stone since everything is relative and whatnot.
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With this, I agree. but

Psychedelics manifest your fantasy as sensory experience
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Psychedelics manifest your mind, Not just the fantasy. Gives you full access to your own resources. You might come to realize things about your life, and life in general, but that's all up to you.

And what else is a human life but a sensory experience.

coming out of a trip and trying to apply what you learned in to a sober and real-world setting will not help you excel in anything other than possibly philosophy.
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And music, art, and science.

Yes, that's right, I said science. (whoppee!)

Psychedelics give you inspiration, and depending on how you use them, possibly opens your mind to new concepts, gives you new ways to solve problems, modifies the way you think. Allows you to think outside the box, which would be healthy for some people on this thread...

The guys who figured out the DNA did LSD. For example.

Here's an anecdote: When the tribes who use Ayahuasca were first discovered, they asked the explorers about things like cities, and stuff they should not even know about. Turns out they had seen cities and other parts of the world on their ayahuasca trips.

How do you explain that if the psychedelics are just drugs, which produce their effects by deluding your mind? Just a big coincidence?
 
Now you're making a lot more sense. Now how does this "spirit" talk hold up as science?

If the answer is "it doesn't" then fine. Nothing wrong with being religious.
 
Here's an anecdote: When the tribes who use Ayahuasca were first discovered, they asked the explorers about things like cities, and stuff they should not even know about. Turns out they had seen cities and other parts of the world on their ayahuasca trips.
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That's really interesting. Can you point me towards some further reading? :)
 
belief of "plant spirits" has no value other than as a ritualistic meta-programming tool?
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Mushrooms are not plants by the way. Anyway why is it so hard to believe in "plant spirits?"

That plants and fungi would be sentient?

They are alive. They communicate with each other. Some fungi may be able to remember things.

When you eat mushroom tissue, it is basically still alive, when it goes into your stomach. What if it communicates with your mind in some way we don't quite understand yet, which gives you the sensation of a contact with the "mushroom spirit"...?

What if, indeed. Of course this is just speculation, but remember that if no one would ever have asked "what if" none of the scientific advances of mankind would ever have been invented.
 
That's really interesting. Can you point me towards some further reading?
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I could, but the only source I have is in Finnish...
 
Mjäll said:
Now you're making a lot more sense. Now how does this "spirit" talk hold up as science?

If the answer is "it doesn't" then fine. Nothing wrong with being religious.
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symbiosis.

I think youre meshing spirituality with religion
 
dread said:
Mushrooms are not plants by the way. Anyway why is it so hard to believe in "plant spirits?"

That plants and fungi would be sentient?

They are alive. They communicate with each other. Some fungi may be able to remember things.

When you eat mushroom tissue, it is basically still alive, when it goes into your stomach. What if it communicates with your mind in some way we don't quite understand yet, which gives you the sensation of a contact with the "mushroom spirit"...?

What if, indeed. Of course this is just speculation, but remember that if no one would ever have asked "what if" none of the scientific advances of mankind would ever have been invented.
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It's speculation allright. And having a mushroom trip does not grant any insight regarding the truth of it.

And yes, mushrooms are not plants according to modern biology. Thanks for clearing that out.
 
There are things in this reality which do not conform to the standards of rational science. Things you simply can not understand from a purely scientific point of view. On some things you just have to go by your instinct. This does not mean these things are any more or less true than things you can prove by science, nor does it mean that science is bad or uninmportant. There's a place for everything.

In the end, we know very little. We make lots of assumptions. You may not believe in anything that you can not rationalize, you may look at life through the narrow view of what fits the definition of reality by scientific standards, or you may accept that nothing is certain, what is true today may not be tomorrow, and go by what feels right to you. Nothing wrong with either way.

In the end, everyone should do what makes them happy. I'm content with that.
 
having a mushroom trip does not grant any insight regarding the truth of it.
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No offense, but until you try them yourself, you shouldn't make assumptions on what they do or do not grant.
 
dread said:
There are things in this reality which do not conform to the standards of rational science. Things you simply can not understand from a purely scientific point of view. On some things you just have to go by your instinct. This does not mean these things are any more or less true than things you can prove by science, nor does it mean that science is bad or uninmportant. There's a place for everything.

In the end, we know very little. We make lots of assumptions. You may not believe in anything that you can not rationalize, you may look at life through the narrow view of what fits the definition of reality by scientific standards, or you may accept that nothing is certain, what is true today may not be tomorrow, and go by what feels right to you. Nothing wrong with either way.

In the end, everyone should do what makes them happy. I'm content with that.
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First of all, thanks for the understanding. Also, thanks for being elaborate about your view.

I fully accept that nothing is certain. Science, though, has proven to be the most adequate (not fully adequate by any means) method when it comes to predicting future events. This, to me, is what this discussion is all about. The camps are not split according to their beliefs when it comes to the uncertainty of everything, but according to their thoughts about plant spirits. I for one don't think they belong in my brain as a concept, since they don't give me access to further knowledge otherwise hidden or harder to reach. Knowledge about tryptamines and neuron sites etc., however, does. The only use I can see for the belief of plant spirit is as a comfort, similar to religion.

Maybe we should just leave it at that :)
 
my g/f tried this and said it sucked. it just felt really wierd to be on oxy while tripping and she didnt enjoy it.
 
This thread reminds me of how much arguing about stuff sucks. just answer the kid's GODDAMN QUESTION and leave the fucking spirits debate to another thread PLEASE! Do you guys even remember what you started arguing about?
 
Propyl Power said:
Mushrooms are a sacred expression of Gaia's love. Try not to embarrass yourself in the presence of this ancient and revered teacher by munching soul-numbing pharmaceuticals.

The mushroom is perfect and complete on its own. Give yourself to it, you might learn something.
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makes sense want to get my hands on some mushies now lol havent done for a while been doin a bunch of acid though
 
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