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Spirit as Science

Cool... I thought that was what you were saying but those first few words.... :D

But I am not sure they are the 'same things' simply because the spiritual world and the science world are wildly different.
 
^But I feel like they are both aspects of the same things, some innate human desire for knowledge, either the getting of or using.
 
Or perhaps aspects of the same thing... consciousness? As in... some are aspects of Beingness and some are of the experiences the Beingness is having?
 
^Pretty much :D

I have my own idea of what I mean by spirituality in a sense, because its not really about the idea of a deity or anything outside me, but is rather based on the existence of something god-like inside everything (including me)...

Despite everything that science can tell us about the external world, the thing it cannot is whether the external world actually exists or not. The only thing I can say for certain is that my own mind, at least, exists. The rest is faith :)
 
I always say that nothing is 'supernatural', there are only inexplicable phenomena and events which science, at this moment, cannot reliably detect, explain or quantify. Science has unfortunately become a rather rigid discipline, with a formulaic, mathematical and analytical approach, depending on repeatable experiments, observations and conclusions, using recognised and accepted methods. All well and good, but most unfortunately, there is little room for imaginatation, and anyone attempting to research controversial or 'mystical' subjects is almost bound to be treated with ridicule and derision by the 'scientific community', and might as well accept they will never get funding or support in their work.


It wasn't always like this. Some of the finest, brightest scientists of all, such as Isaac Newton, spent a large amount of his time investigating Alchemy, magic and spiritual matters. More recently, the exceptional physicist Sir Oliver Lodge, spent much time and effort investigating Spiritualism, and was absolutely convinced it worked and was real, partly thanks to his son Raymond, who was killed in WW1. Sir Oliver was in fact the true inventor of radio communication (but neglected to patent is and was beaten to it by Marconi), and he suspected this brand new form of communication could enable the living to contact the dead using it. That seems absurd to most people nowadays, but Lodge had apparently 'encouraging results', which alas have never been published. IMHO he should be celebrated for being truly open minded, and unafraid of ridicule, rather than just the man who invented the cathode ray tube and spark plugs!


This complete 'divorce' of science and spirit is most unfortunate, and I suspect counter productive. Luckily there are still a few adventurers who follow both disciplines and are unafraid to find connections, as I strongly suspect we are on the eve of one of the most important and significant discoveries since man discovered gunpowder, the wheel or magic mushrooms. That will be undeniable evidence of the fact that death is not the end of our existence, merely a change of state... we go on after death. Some of us need no proof, nor require any 'faith', we know already... and it is no new concept, that's for sure, this 'belief' goes back to prehistoric times. I suspect that everyone has the ability to be a 'psychic medium', like me, they just need to discover it, or have it 'switched on' somehow.. which requires no more than an open mind and the right circumstances.


This will of course have devastating effects on humanity and society, and be bitterly resented, opposed and I daresay 'suppressed' by organised religions, which have a great intrinsic interest in maintaining the 'mystery' and doubt, having made a nice, easy living for 1000's of years based on fear, doubt and superstition. I have to confess, I am looking forward to that with cruel glee... to which they would/will no doubt add 'demonic'! I am sure it will also lead to many deaths and much suffering... I can't see Islam giving up without a vicious backlash, nor the Church of Rome. Even so, whether they like it or not, we are about to take another, giant step in our evolution and development, and IMHO be far better off and content because of it!


One last matter, which particularly applies to this site, and those who contribute to it. I know that throughout history, man has used drugs and herbs to 'get closer to God', achieve mystic 'altered states', and even allow, develop or enhance connection with the world of Spirit. We now have a mass of new psychedelics, as well as the tradirional and natural ones. I have always idly fantasized about some (semi-magical) substance which might enable, or enhance the ability to communicate with Spirit, but despite much (highly enjoyable!) experimentation and searching, have yet to discover any. Drugs have however most certainly helped me to open my mind, enhance my imagination and control any anxiety (talking to the dead is a bit daunting I suppose?). And also made me aware of 'altered states' and 'other worlds/places', which has greatly helped me develop my abilities.Sadly, it seems that short of trying them and testing them, almost all research and analysis revolves round biochemistry, psychology, psychiatry, and effects on the nervous system brain and sensory apparatus. Only DMT - which I have never tried - appears to have some capability to allow 'connection' to occur, and from all I have read, this often seems to be a terrifying and deeply disturbing event. Not just for Western psychonauts and adventurers, but for those who use it for shamanic/tribal initiation purposes in tribal rituals, rites and cultural traditions. The descriptions I have seen sound uncannily like a series of truly terrifying encounters I had as a child, 'visited' by sinister, incredibly menacing liittle 'monks' or scytheless Grim Reapers, who literally paralysed me with fear, night after night - very much like Whitley Streiber's 'alien abductors'. No drugs involved, these were of course put down to 'nocturnal horrors' and nightmares by my worried parents.... and maybe that's what they were? Even so, this was in the days long before pictures of, and films about 'Grey Aliens' appeared, and luckily I frew pictures of the little sods. Shadow People? Whatever, they were there, and I even spoke to them - in my head, long before I knew of telepathy. They were fortunately harmless AFAIK, I called them "Woowas". Oddly enough, Uri Geller had similar experiences at the same age, only his were called "Hoovas"... a Jewish version perhaps? Oh well, more than 'nuff said' I think?
 
I think this is what has been called "Initiatic Science" by the White Brotherhood. It's something that's been passed on from generation to generation but not a part of common knowledge, and very difficult to understand with a normal mindset (literally). It's funny how people can't believe anything that's not part of mass culture, or mentioned in the mass media, don't exist.

Like something becomes more true the more times it's mentioned, but I guess it's only natural to feel that way, so people say things like "If there was such a thing we would have heard about it by now". When how can you really be sure either way. I just think it's a bad way to measure the truth, or to think the more we have heard of something, the more rational it is, and the more real it is.

It doesn't really work like that, but you tend to believe in the version of things you've been given from birth as there aren't really many alternatives, and either way it's too complex and confusing to work out. It's like there are many who start to search for the truth, but then stop when they realise they will just be branded a lunatic and it gets too hard for their intellectual pride, then go back to where they started out.
 
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This complete 'divorce' of science and spirit is most unfortunate, and I suspect counter productive.

It can be seen as a way of keeping the modern man illiterate. We are ready to know the truth about the spiritual world by now. I think one reason it's been kept out of our reach is that it can be genuinly empowering and we don't live in a world where everyone are empowered. Extra-sensory perception skills can certainly be empowering in many situations and create and advantage for the person who has developed them.

This can work even in very serious situations like legal matters, etc. so it's not something that's ever been encouraged for the masses to learn. There are advanced skills like hypnosis which can be quite dangerous if it falls into the wrong hands, and the thing is that most of humanity has the potential to develop these skills. I also think these are first safe to teach the majority when we have reached a certain point in spiritual development so they can't be abused any more, and we're still not at that point.

So these things are still kept and taught more in secret. I used to be a member of the Rosicrucian order and they sure teach things like that. It was too super-natural and not spiritual enough for me, but Elvis, for instance, was a well-known Rosicrucian and also someone with spiritual powers. But people don't just waste their time in organisations like that, especially when they have so much else to do.
 
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But there are so many types of experiences. Only in one region you may find hundreds of different ways to see or talk about spirits.
I wonder which "samples" would science gather? From what religion and their subtypes etc, etc.
I think it could be infinite the way each one of us contact or are contacted by spirits.

Without any sarcasm at all. Each one or small group of people may have ha experience that they can't prove. I don't even share mine because people simply would not believe me.

I have had a lot of episodes involving spirits, I'm sober and have had these experiences only when I was sober.
 
...So these things are still kept and taught more in secret. I used to be a member of the Rosicrucian order and they sure teach things like that. It was too super-natural and not spiritual enough for me, but Elvis, for instance, was a well-known Rosicrucian and also someone with spiritual powers. But people don't just waste their time in organisations like that, especially when they have so much else to do.
I was put off by the Rosicrucian system as well. My grandmother was a member for 30 years and she had boxes of their monographs when she died. One disappointing example was Degree 9 Monograph 20. it was titled "Mastering Invisibility." I carefully followed the instructions well, and of course it didn't work. I have yet to read about anybody i nthe world ever becoming invisible. Supposedly Jesus had a Cloak of Invisibility, but that is long lost.
 
There is no division between God, His Word, and science.

Isaac Newton was a saint and his favorite field of study was Biblical prophecy

This documentary explains part of why it is made to appear as if there is a division between God's Word and science. Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein. He does a great job. Charles Dawkins presents his case in it too. Well, actually, the fallen angels inhabiting Charles Dawkin's soul are the ones talking. It also explains part of how Darwinism was responsible for the Holocaust. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5EPymcWp-g

After the Holocaust, Operation Paperclip happened. One of the worst things that happened to America.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip. This world is run by fallen angels. In operation paperclip, American sorcerers brought over Nazi scientists who researched "mind control" (the mystery schools - magic) during the Holocaust. They were Darwinism extremists who linked up with the eugenics people in America. So while sorcery is the reason they were brought over and given a pass on war crimes, along with intel on the Soviets, they ended up influencing education, rocketry, and most importantly WORLD VIEW in America.

This is, in part, why kids are taught evolution in school even though it is just another false religion from Satan. Radiometric dating, the fossil record, and the paleontological table combine to create circular logic where any samples contradicting evolution are thrown out. The numbers are, quite literally, made up. Dinosaurs lived with people (look it up, there is TONS of proof). Dinosaurs are mentioned quite a few times in the Bible (Book of Job for instance describes them well).

It is all about controlling world view and perception. If people think they evolved from single celled organisms, they are easier to control. Much easier. People are controlled through their sin. It keeps them well distracted and prevents them from getting in the way of the ruling class.

The Nazi scientists were a big part of how murdering children in the womb got legalized. Once they got Darwinism accepted by the masses, people started thinking "well, it's not a real life yet." People have been sacrificing babies to idols (demons) since way back in the Old Testament (Moloch). God used to kill entire societies because they were worshiping demons. These days, people worship idols still (money, power, evolution, what people think of them, sex, etc etc) and still sacrifice their babies to idols.

God is Love. He is VERY merciful. That is the scariest part about Him. He is LOVE, He is ETERNAL, His mercy is currently WELL EXTENDED, and He is GRIEVING. Jesus saves!

Peace in Christ
 
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He does a great job. It also explains part of how Darwinism was responsible for the Holocaust.
Don't be stupid. The Holocaust happened because Hitler was Christian.
God is Love. He is VERY merciful.
He better forgive your stupid remark.
 
Don't be stupid. The Holocaust happened because Hitler was Christian.

He better forgive your stupid remark.

Hitler was as Christian as Bush. Not at all. He worked with the Roman Catholics. He did this for the same reason the Roman Catholic church was formed under Constantine. Power and control.

He was a sorcerer. This is openly known. All the top Nazis were pagan sorcerers. Look up "hitler black magic" or "hitler atlantis." His religious beliefs were literally what drove him to do what he did. He was EXTREMELY darwinist. He was fanatic. All his scientists were Darwinists and anyone who didn't toe the line got fired. Kinda like what is going on now in America.

The bankers are the ones who are driving all of this. They are the reason evolution is pushed so hard, and they are the reason the Holocaust occurred. They fund both sides of every war and make off with INSANE profits. War is their most profitable industry. They are controlled by fallen angels. That's why they are like that. They don't even know fallen angels are real, but their thoughts originate from spirits of confusion.
 
Ok. Please continue to present your views. I am out.

No need to undermine your views. You are much better at undermining the credibility of yourself (and your own Christian subculture). No need to have pointless debates which will not change anything. The more words in this world are uttered by religiously inspired people, the less people will respect religion. Atheism is not a threat for religion, religious stupidity is the biggest threat for religion.
 
Ok. Please continue to present your views. I am out.

No need to undermine your views. You are much better at undermining the credibility of yourself (and your own Christian subculture). No need to have pointless debates which will not change anything. The more words in this world are uttered by religiously inspired people, the less people will respect religion. Atheism is not a threat for religion, religious stupidity is the biggest threat for religion.

I'm not looking for credibility and I do not share my own views, but instead the views of the One who called me. If I wanted credibility, I would not be talking about fallen angels and sorcery. I would be acting like a Republican cult member.

I also failed to mention religion. I am not religious, due to constraints, but I hope to be one day. It's a relationship not a religion.
27Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world. - that is the only God-given religion.

If I wanted credibility, I would not be telling people that I have met Christ in person (and in the Spirit afterwards), met His angels, and have engaged fallen angels in combat (in the Spirit). But I have and I do.

God is Love. God is very merciful. God is forgiving. God is the perfect God there could be. Not only is He real, the Creator of everything, eternal, and all-powerful - BUT HE IS LOVE. You don't know what an amazing revelation that is for someone who was born in a fallen world that has been corrupted by one of God's most powerful creations (Lucifer was His top angel before inequity was found in him and he rebelled). You don't know what it is like to find out that God is Love and He is Eternal because you accepted what was in front of you and did not seek the truth. He is merciful. Seek and you will find. HE IS VERY MERCIFUL! Don't just take my word for it. Take His Word for it. He said anyone who seeks the truth will find the truth. All you have to do is ask Him to reveal the Truth to you, and He will - and you will be healed.
 
I was put off by the Rosicrucian system as well. My grandmother was a member for 30 years and she had boxes of their monographs when she died. One disappointing example was Degree 9 Monograph 20. it was titled "Mastering Invisibility." I carefully followed the instructions well, and of course it didn't work. I have yet to read about anybody i nthe world ever becoming invisible. Supposedly Jesus had a Cloak of Invisibility, but that is long lost.

Wouldn't that be referring to a metaphor, though? When Peter Deunov was called in to be interrogated by the police for his reigious activities he said he didn't need to have come and could have made himself disappear from the physical plane but came out of respect for the laws in his country. But I think he achieved ascencion throughout his lifetime and that would be the only way.

And he was a highly educated physician/minister, not just a wackjob telling stories. One of the few Western teachers who seemed to attain enlightenment. I'm sure there are many more, they just haven't been mentioned in literature or carried down through history. Kind of depressing to think the ones who attained the most probably haven't even been mentioned. Maybe Jesus wasn't so much of an anomaly as we have been led to think. The more I see the more I come to believe the human spiritual potential has been vastly underrated.

Although most will tend to see it the opposite way or think of it as a fabrication of deusional minds. The reason we can't make any sense of those bible stories is that we're too young and don't have the science to understand (and it's not presented in a scientific way) and that initial impression stays with us for life. It's almost worse than being told nothing as it gives us a bias against it when it doesn't fit in with everything else we learn. But religion started being torn down when television was invented (in the 60s properly).
 
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If I wanted credibility, I would not be telling people that I have met Christ in person (and in the Spirit afterwards), met His angels, and have engaged fallen angels in combat (in the Spirit). But I have and I do.

LOL. Just when everyone thought I could get no worse.

By the way, what do you think of the idea that Lucifer was played by Archangel Gabriel as a kind of double-agent and has now hung up his cloak? Are you in genuine contact with the principalities or just repeating what you've been told? But I don't believe all the fallen are angels as I think both humans and angels can rise and fall (just demons being fallen angels sounds more glamorous).

There was also an idea going around that the current Queen Elizabeth is a fallen archangel (Hope) whose higher self was just presented with the choice of going back to the light or being dissolved into primal matter and was one of the few who chose the latter. I don't really know what to think of these things, as they sound so incredulous, but at the same time how could you even know.
 
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Initiatic Science

"Aïvanhov teaches the ancient principles of initiatic science. He describes the cosmic laws governing both the universe and the human being, the macrocosm and microcosm, and the exchanges that constantly take place between them.

This knowledge has taken different forms throughout the centuries. It is the "perennial wisdom" expressed through various religions, each adapted to the spirit of a particular time, people, and level of spiritual evolution. Aivanhov's teaching incorporates aspects of Esoteric Christianity that relate to finding the "Kingdom of God on earth" within the individual.

One of the essential truths of initiatic science, according to Aivanhov, is that (in the higher world) all things are linked. Thus committing oneself to the Kingdom of God on earth makes it realizable: "The real science is to form within ourselves, in the depths of our being, this Body that Initiates call the Body of Glory, the Body of Light, the Body of Christ."[5]"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omraam_Mikhaël_Aïvanhov


That's more what I had in mind. I think the true initiate becomes like Christ, although that would be the highest level of initiation. Theosophy often refers to different levels of initiation, saying the third inititation is when you gain control of the ego or lower personality, and the 5fth initiation is when the spirit becomes really grounded in your being. So I imagine every initiation to be like small steps to becoming more like Christ (and Christ being more a model or template for human spiritual evolution than anything else).
 
LOL. Just when everyone thought I could get no worse.

By the way, what do you think of the idea that Lucifer was played by Archangel Gabriel as a kind of double-agent and has now hung up his cloak? Are you in genuine contact with the principalities or just repeating what you've been told? But I don't believe all the fallen are angels as I think both humans and angels can rise and fall (just demons being fallen angels sounds more glamorous).

There was also an idea going around that the current Queen Elizabeth is a fallen archangel (Hope) whose higher self was just presented with the choice of going back to the light or being dissolved into primal matter and was one of the few who chose the latter. I don't really know what to think of these things, as they sound so incredulous, but at the same time how could you even know.


Human rulers in this world are normally possessed by fallen angels.
Gabriel NEVER rebelled against God. He is the one who announced the birth of the Righteous One who redeemed me with His Blood. Angels do not have need of a Savior. Why do you call him an Archangel? The Word never called him that. He is definitely one of God's favorite creations, don't get me wrong.

Fallen angels can not be redeemed. The have committed the eternal sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (claiming the Spirit of God is actually Satan) and they try to trick us into committing it. There is no coming back from blaspheming the Holy Spirit. They are responsible for the corruption of this world. They are going to the Lake of Fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.

I have met Jesus Christ (twice, once in person and once in a vision), the archangel Michael, and (regrettably) tons of fallen angels. When they come around, God lets me hear them and they keep saying "that's him." One of them asked an angel to heal them and the angel said "it's too late for you to be healed." I have no idea why I am being talked about so much by the rulers of this world. All I did was seek God with all my heart and talk about Him 24/7. I'm no better than anyone else.

Anyways, if you don't believe God's Word - you will fall. He is His Word. God's Son is the only Salvation and He is the Word made flesh.

This was said about the king of Babylon. It was talking about both the spirit in him. Lucifer

11‘Your pomp and the music of your harps
Have been brought down to Sheol;
Maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you
And worms are your covering.’ 12“How you have fallen from heaven,
O star of the morning, son of the dawn!
You have been cut down to the earth,
You who have weakened the nations!
13“But you said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne above the stars of God,
And I will sit on the mount of assembly
In the recesses of the north.
14‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
15“Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol,
To the recesses of the pit.
16“Those who see you will gaze at you,
They will ponder over you, saying,
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
17Who made the world like a wilderness
And overthrew its cities,
Who did not allow his prisoners to go home?’
 
No, Gabriel came to tell the story he had been playing the part of Lucifer to infiltrate the darkness for thousands of years before his mission now came to an end. You might like some of this, although it sounds like you have your own mind about things. Or are you willing to accept the dark agenda is coming to an end or to let go of it?


Gabriel:

This week marks the end of the Lucifer Project. There will be no more dark oversight on Planet Earth. Our Lucifer can now move into the Light as his true identity, which is I, Archangel Gabriel. He will no longer be needed to do the "dirty work" of being the double agent and liaison between the Company of Heaven and the dark forces.

Beloved Ones, life is going to be constant delight, relief, joy, happiness. We are beside ourselves here. Our only regret comes in the knowledge that we will be losing some of the beloved souls who came here originally to play the role of dark ones, but who lost their way. The effect of generations of brainwashing and separation created too much damage. We are very sad about that. Father is filled with emotion, but there is nothing more to do to try to win them back to the Light other than to give them the free will choice to join with us.

Once the ceremony is complete, welcoming those who decide to take the leap into the Light, there will be endless celebration. We will honor those lost in the battle as you would honor your fallen soldiers. They will have a place in our history as much as the Lightworkers will. This phase of the conflict between dark and Light is a historic turning point for Planet Earth.

We are relieved beyond words, and experiencing a sense of fulfillment - the fulfillment of our Destiny - the triumph of Light in this part of our Milky Way Galaxy. There is still work to be done, but Mother Terra is now free to proceed with her Ascension without fear of nuclear attack or devastation from the cabal.

I join with you, Beloved Friends, by announcing this small truth about my identity as a Child of God. Let it no longer be said that there is a Satan, or a Devil or a Lucifer who represents evil. He is no more. He was an illusion, a slight of hand, a dramatic role I played in the struggle to bring Light to our beloved Terra. The curtain has closed on that historic drama. We are now free to move on to the full unfolding of our glorious New Golden Age.

As I hang up my costume and the stage lights go dark, I return to take my place beside Source, among my beloved Angels and Masters, no longer incognito, in hiding from the scrutiny of the cabal.

Hear my trumpet now, dear humankind, announcing the coming of Truth and Justice to our beloved Planet Earth. Let it be known today to all, on both sides of the Divide between Light and Dark that Lucifer is dead. Long live the Light!"


http://www.whoneedslight.org/cm-eng...sanat-and-gabriel-the-cabal-departs-this-week


It's interesting, but I don't always know what to think of these things. Gabriel is also my main guardian angel (he looks after millions) and has been for my last 30 lifetimes on earth so he's my main spiritual inspiration (the messenger angel - he has many ideas). I also got to play Gabriel for our naivity play in the first grade, one of those funny synchronicities (my best friend had long dark hair and got to be Mary).

By the way, although you seem very visionary, are you sure this doom & gloom approach is the right way for you to go? As it's not really the way to get through to anyone expect Christian fanatics so you're limiting your audience there, but I know it's very hard to get through to people like you. I expect you to deny anything I have to say, but it might be a good idea to try to be a little more open-minded.
 
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I'm not looking for credibility and I do not share my own views, but instead the views of the One who called me. If I wanted credibility, I would not be talking about fallen angels and sorcery. I would be acting like a Republican cult member.

I also failed to mention religion. I am not religious, due to constraints, but I hope to be one day. It's a relationship not a religion.
27Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world. - that is the only God-given religion.

If I wanted credibility, I would not be telling people that I have met Christ in person (and in the Spirit afterwards), met His angels, and have engaged fallen angels in combat (in the Spirit). But I have and I do.

God is Love. God is very merciful. God is forgiving. God is the perfect God there could be. Not only is He real, the Creator of everything, eternal, and all-powerful - BUT HE IS LOVE. You don't know what an amazing revelation that is for someone who was born in a fallen world that has been corrupted by one of God's most powerful creations (Lucifer was His top angel before inequity was found in him and he rebelled). You don't know what it is like to find out that God is Love and He is Eternal because you accepted what was in front of you and did not seek the truth. He is merciful. Seek and you will find. HE IS VERY MERCIFUL! Don't just take my word for it. Take His Word for it. He said anyone who seeks the truth will find the truth. All you have to do is ask Him to reveal the Truth to you, and He will - and you will be healed.
you are god.
 
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