Spirit as Science

[swilow]

What is stoner literature?

I wonder why Gabriel would care about it...

 

[Erikmen]

Some people have imaginary friends. I´m not trying to be sarcastic. But it´s true.

 

[Ninae]

What is wrong with having imaginary friends?

I don't know, it was just what came into my mind for some reason. Like it was much louder than the rest. I took it to mean all kinds of literature that entices to drug-use or glamourises drugs, and I guess he's right. I'm sure there are many who have become opiate addict after reading "Confessions of an Opium-Addict", for instance (I know one).

So it has its ups and downs, but maybe it was meant as an objection to me contributing to a board like this, even though I don't really post about drugs. But the word "stoner-literature" could just as well be something I made up to interpret what he said, as that kind of thing seems to come to you in the form of energy which you then have to translate into words with your own vocabulary, and that's what some would call it.

 

[Erikmen]

Nothing Nina. IMO, nothing at all. The things you say sometimes makes me want to ask why is that.
Like it was said sometimes I feel you have a tendency to go off on a rail when you speak state certain things and it´s natural people ask about it.

Have you ever spoke about this with your doctor or a psychiatrist?

What is stoner literature?

 

[NOtoInvega]

There is only one truth. What you call human enlightenment IS the doctrine of demons. It teaches that you awaken and become a god. This is the same lie told to Adam and Eve in the Garden!

God is listening. He really isn't far away. Talk to Him. He knows everything. Eternity really does await. You have on filthy garments.

1Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.
2The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, the LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?"
3Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments and standing before the angel.
4He spoke and said to those who were standing before him, saying, "Remove the filthy garments from him." Again he said to him, "See, I have taken your iniquity away from you and will clothe you with festal robes."
5Then I said, "Let them put a clean turban on his head." So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him with garments, while the angel of the LORD was standing by.



Do not accept what is in front of you. Satan is the ruler of this world. Do not seek friendship with the world, but rather friendship with God. They are directly opposed.


Warning against Pride
4You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5Or do you think that the Scripture speaks to no purpose: "He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us"?…

 

[Ninae]

Nothing Nina. IMO, nothing at all. Somethings you say sometimes makes me want to ask why is that.
Like it was said sometimes I feel you have a tendency to go off on a rail when you speak state certain things and it´s natural people ask about it.

Have you ever spoke about this with your doctor or a psychiatrist?

What is stoner literature?

I've already said I have manic ups where I can lose self-control/grounding (though not as bad as some). But you have a tendency to miscomprehend things. Like when you took me seriously when I posted that Alec Baldwin God-complex clip and said that's what I aspire to be like or when you get offended for no real reason.

I don't carry out personal attack-campaigns against people. I just speak my mind if I disagree on a subject, but I focus on the topic, and like to think I can be impersonal/objective. I don't bear grudges. It just makes it kind of hard to interact with people when so many just see the worst and expect the worst in everyone, and I don't relate to others that way (I think everyone can agree that's a miserable way to relate).

"Stoner literature" could be any form of writing about recreational drugs the way I meant it, but I guess more correctly would refer to Marijuana-culture.

 

[Ninae]

There is only one truth. What you call human enlightenment IS the doctrine of demons. It teaches that you awaken and become a god.

I thought that was what Christ tried to teach us and was eventually killed for? That he dared to point to the god in himself and within us all ("Seek the kingdom of heaven within you"). At least many take it to mean that he came to tell us God resides in ourselves, all of us, and that's also how I understand it.

His mission was very successful for himself but didn't really succeed in uplifting humanity the way he aimed for. If it had been more of us would have become LIKE Christ, and not just come to worship Christ, though I realise that sounds like blasphemy to you.

But we can all experience a moment of God-identification and go out to share our experience with others, think about what that means. God-identification just means getting pulled into the part of yourself that is one with God at all times, but I find it hard to imagine what it would be like to always feel that way. For most this would be a peak-experience, not an everyday-kind of thing.

 

[socko]

There is only one truth. What you call human enlightenment IS the doctrine of demons. It teaches that you awaken and become a god. This is the same lie told to Adam and Eve in the Garden!....

What really is enlightenment? We've seen frauds throughout history who claim to be gods. Sai Baba was one. He claimed he was enlightened and promised the same to his followers, many of which believed he was a god. But in the end, it was shown that he used parlour tricks.

Lucid dreaming is a form of magic. Sorcerers make contact with "spirits" and "ascended masters" in the "astral" plane. In reality, it is fallen angels who they are making contact with.

You said it i nanother thread, but I don't feel like posting in multiple threads. A lucid dream is only a dream but one in which you start to wake up, at least mentally. The dreamer knows it's a dream. I'm not sure how there is anything magical about it. What do you mean when you say 'magic,' anyway? What is a sorceror? When those fallen angels start announcing winning stock market picks or lottery numbers beyond the rate of chance in dreams, I have a feeling a lot of people will want to become sorcerors, but so far, it isn't happening.

 

[alasdairm]

IS it an artificial divide though?

absolutely this.

they're two different approaches to the same 'problem' (for want of a better word).

i think it's ironic, and not a little sad, when i hear people on the spiritual side of this discussion accuse others of ignorance and close-mindedness when science is, by definition, open-minded. science is open to the possibility of absolutely anything being true. it just needs a little convincing.

alasdair

 

[Erikmen]

I've already said I have manic ups where I can lose self-control/grounding (though not as bad as some). But you have a tendency to miscomprehend things. Like when you took me seriously when I posted that Alec Baldwin God-complex clip and said that's what I aspire to be like or when you get offended for no real reason.

I don't carry out personal attack-campaigns against people. I just speak my mind if I disagree on a subject, but I focus on the topic, and like to think I can be impersonal/objective. I don't bear grudges. It just makes it kind of hard to interact with people when so many just see the worst and expect the worst in everyone, and I don't relate to others that way (I think everyone can agree that's a miserable way to relate).

"Stoner literature" could be any form of writing about recreational drugs the way I meant it, but I guess more correctly would refer to Marijuana-culture.

Fair enough Nina. I have nothing against you. I'm sorry I have caused distressed to you. I like good energy, I feel this is my bad. I was being picky. Don't really know why.
Disagreements make me anxious. My apologies if that's how you felt.
Unnskyld!

 

[Journyman16]

absolutely this.

they're two different approaches to the same 'problem' (for want of a better word).

i think it's ironic, and not a little sad, when i hear people on the spiritual side of this discussion accuse others of ignorance and close-mindedness when science is, by definition, open-minded. science is open to the possibility of absolutely anything being true. it just needs a little convincing.

alasdair

Science is. Unfortunately many scientists are not...

So, particularly in recent times we have Scientism raising it's ugly head and Authority being taught as a valid source of knowledge - Science is against both of those but scientists are just people like the rest of us, and many seem to fill the 'Religion' hole in their lives with Scientism.

 

[Erikmen]

absolutely this.

they're two different approaches to the same 'problem' (for want of a better word).

i think it's ironic, and not a little sad, when i hear people on the spiritual side of this discussion accuse others of ignorance and close-mindedness when science is, by definition, open-minded. science is open to the possibility of absolutely anything being true. it just needs a little convincing.

alasdair

I think I know what you mean.

 

[alasdairm]

Science is. Unfortunately many scientists are not...

well, let's not conflate science and some scientists. that would be like conflating islam and islamic fundamentalists.

the title of the thread is "spirit as science" not "spiritualists as scientists".

alasdair

 

[Journyman16]

Agreed, but it is scientists who are failing to front up to the issue of spirit. It's similar in nature to the UFO issue - you'd think, even if UFO's are seen as imaginary, the fact that millions are seeing them might provoke some serious study of the phenomena. Just so, even though millions have experiences that cannot be fit into the Physics paradigm, Science does not address the issue and even works against those who might try by withholding funding and/or penalties in regards, to career.

 

[Ninae]

Some might have problems with grounding, but there are also some who can't "unground" or see beyond the obvious world around them.

And there has been many spiritual scientists and vice versa, it's just not mentioned much for convenience's sake. Most of the great inventors weren't materialists. But the divide between science and spirit is old-fashioned and not necessary by any means. It works in a very limiting way by making people choose between science and spirit so they can only explore one field (you need a synthesis to understand life).

These days there's not much left of that divide anymore. It's mostly upheld by materialists to make those with spiritual beliefs look unreasonable, even though most acknowledge science now, they just don't want to limit themselves to it. There aren't many real Creationists left anymore, not enough to really matter, anyway. I don't get identifying as "Religious" or "Scientific", it's sad and just upholds ignorance and division between people. But many just need something to argue about so they're not going to let go of that divide so easily.

 

[murphythecat]

cant a mod do something about NOtoInvega?

I am extremely fundamentalist. I take the Word of God very literally. I believe that the only allegory in it is what God makes clear to be allegory. And it is in this that I came to know that the Roman Catholic Church is not God's Church, and came to know that we are in the great apostasy. The only place you will find the Truth is in God's Word.

The only divine in me is the Holy Spirit. Before being born of the Spirit of God, I was a natural man born of the flesh. I was not God's child. I was raised Catholic and when I was a Catholic, I was not God's child. That is not to say that no Catholics are God's children, but rather it is to say that Catholic doctrine is often error. For instance, bowing to images and statues is an abomination to the LORD. I did not become His child until He sent His Holy Spirit to live in me and give me Life. I greatly desire the same thing for you. You are currently a captive to the ruler of this world. Understanding that we are saved by grace through faith, and not by our own works, is critical to receiving grace from God. If you rely on your own righteousness, you will never receive Christ's righteousness and therefore will never become truly righteous.

If you have never read the Gospel of John, and have only gone to church/heard from other people, you have almost certainly heard mostly lies about Him. I heard about Him my whole life, and when I read the Gospel I was shocked to discover that everyone was lying.

I am saved by grace through faith. God calls Himself the God of Grace!

Please consider reading the Gospel of John. Your enemy, the ruler of this world, wants to stop you from doing this. They know you will learn the Truth and it will set you free.

Ask God to guide you. Ask Him whether or not you should do as I ask. He will give you peace and let you know that I am truly His servant. He listens!

I'm here for you. Message me any time. I will never lie to you. I have nothing worldly to gain from you, I don't want your church membership nor do I want your money, and I offer you my service free of charge.

 

[socko]

cant a mod do something about NOtoInvega?

I agree. It's one thing to respond to questions and comments while staying on topic, and it's OK to make your own threads, but to come in and CRAP FLOOD three separate threads at once with practically the same comment is rude.

 

[Erikmen]

Agreed, but it is scientists who are failing to front up to the issue of spirit. It's similar in nature to the UFO issue - you'd think, even if UFO's are seen as imaginary, the fact that millions are seeing them might provoke some serious study of the phenomena. Just so, even though millions have experiences that cannot be fit into the Physics paradigm, Science does not address the issue and even works against those who might try by withholding funding and/or penalties in regards, to career.

Or, maybe they do and we don't know. Lots of reports were denied after "Government" interviews. ?

 

[Erikmen]

Anyway, I'm done discussing this.

 

[swilow]

Perhaps some scientist are not interested in spirituality? I don't think we need to invoke the great Conspiracy Theory Toothbunny here.

With things like Psi, every attempt to study it fails. Why would scientists keep trying to study something that they simply cannot or which they may have disproven? Even these facts are meaningless; in truth, many studies actually suggest that many humans believe their minds can control or influence external events, even when this is shown to be incorrect. It would seem to be ingrained in us to assume psi powers given the immediacy and potency with which our mind enacts changes in our unique internal worlds.

Note, that I don't think these sort of things have been disproven by science, but just that they have eluded study and are perhaps not something fit to be studied. That doesn't specifically speak to their truth or not.

Perhaps the entire world is actually a giant placebo-button? Maybe nothing we do makes any impact.