Heroin Using Hard Drugs Without Addiction?

[Fresco]

Let him find out the hard way, guys.

Sometimes people need a good "spanking" before they see the light

 

[ms4104]

It's really sad.. you read all the 'newbs' posting in the 'it's safe to try anything once' type posts...and avoiding the dark side. This forms a distorted opinion that heroin use can be safe fun and recreational when that is really not true. It'd be better to say heroin use can be recreational for that one spec of pepper in the bowl of salt. For the rest of us reality hits pretty quick.

I am a dope head but honestly... a toke on the weekend is recreational... or like on your birthday and christmas. I don't know a single sole that chips and has a good life...whats recreational about that? They are either sick half the time, or hustling 100% of the time just to stay straight and middleman like a bill a day habit. I have yet to meet someone who uses once in a blue moon except if they are just starting out.

Sure..it's POSSIBLE. A lot of shit is possible. Odds are fucking against you...honestly you have a better chance getting struck by lightning twice in a month than playing with dope and coming out ahead.

 

[forkfight]

I know it's been said likely the entirety of the thread, but honestly, 'no one plans on getting addicted'. You'll see the month in between slowly turn to days to every day and then you realize you're fucked

 

[Opieator]

Youve been using for a month, thats nothing. Addiction develops over time and creeps up on you- pretty much everyone starts out like you

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Two more points I thought of are that just because there may be the rare person who is able to use heroin without getting addicted and/or physically dependent does not mean that they won't get addicted and physically dependent sooner or later, and it doesn't mean that the reason they aren't right now is through will-power, intelligence or something they were able to intentionally do to keep themselves from getting addicted/physically dependent - it's solely through luck. They were just blessed with a certain brain chemistry that made them less prone to addiction than the rest of us, or in some cases circumstances beyond their control that made it extremely difficult to use more than once in a while. Don't kid yourself by thinking you have what it takes to avoid addiction or that you can choose how often to use in order to avoid physical dependence. Addiction is not a choice! In fact I would hazard a guess that you, madgardner, are VERY susceptible to heroin addiction, given your history of depression (a huge red flag), the frequency with with you're using, the easy access to drugs, and your invincible attitude and the disrespect you currently have for the power of heroin.

Now to the people who are saying you deserve to "learn the hard way" by getting addicted, I think that is cruel as I wouldn't wish heroin addiction on anyone, not even on my worst enemy. Even if you end up being one of the very lucky few who are are eventually able to quit, your brain will be damaged for life if you have any long-term opiate habit. You may, like me, permanently end up with an extreme sensitivity to pain, fucked up sleep, depression, no energy or motivation, etc, and that's if you manage to avoid getting any serious deadly diseases. So no I wouldn't think serious addiction would be a good "lesson".

Also, one thing many people don't realize is that smoking heroin is very dangerous, more dangerous in some ways than injecting it. There is a brain disease, called leukoencephalopathy, which can only be transmitted through smoking heroin. I have lost friends to it and have 2 who have lived through it. One was in a coma for about a month and then slowly recovered after his whole family was preparing for him to die, but he was left with serious brain damage, blindness, difficulty walking, etc and needs someone to care for him. The other one, she is still in a coma and has been for over a year. I am not exaggerating this at all. Not to encourage you to start injecting, as you can OD more easily that way, but don't think smoking it means you're taking less risks.

 

[pbuilder]

exactly what I was thinking!

I guarentee you he was high on either crystal or gear and was in a euphoric state. When you are in pure euphoria you just think the world is great and your thoughts are rational, "oh yea I feel incredible right now, I can easily never get addicted lol I'm god", let's go make a thread about how I just started doing crystal and dope a month ago and how I'll never get addicted! 8(

 

[Fresco]

Wow, dancer wasnt kidding. And obviously I dont wish this on anybody

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_leukoencephalopathy

Toxic leukoencephalopathy or toxic spongiform leukoencephalopathy is a condition that is characterized by progressive damage (-pathy), of the white matter (leuko-) of the brain (-encephalo-) due to ingested toxins (toxic).

It is seen in some people who ingest heroin by route of smoking (chasing the dragon). It is currently unknown by what means the smoking of heroin causes the condition.

Toxic leukoencephalopathy has also been reported as a consequence of cranial irradiation and chemotherapy in the treatment of leukemias, such as acute lymphoblastic leukemia.[1]

Toxic leukoencephalopathy affects white matter tracts devoted to higher cerebral function, causing clinical features that range from inattention, forgetfulness, and changes in personality to dementia, coma, and death.[2] Obvious signs of the condition are difficulty with cognitive function and equilibrioception

 

[zurichsb]

OP: Sorry I jumped on you with my first post. Swimming Dancer :Yeah but even if he is one of the few who are "immune" to opiate addiction, what are the chances of not getting addicted to either heroin or meth. He's playing with two separate fires. OP I thought exactly the same way you did, I could do the coke, the x, the weed, drink, trip, bars, speed, all of it and I never saw myself with an addiction or a problem. I could put it down when I wanted. In the end mary and lucy were my two favorite girls in the world. It took me a long time to "like" opiates more than those two drugs. I had all the knowledge, I saw all the experiences. I knew what to avoid, how to avoid. I still became addicted. I think that you are forgetting heroin use and meth too I believe alter the fundamental structure of your brain with each use! You can't outsmart that, eventually you will fall prey too addiction. 23% of people who ever try heroin become addicted to the substance, it doesn't happen to all of us quickly! Every time you use the chance of you become addicted goes up. It sucks, we all wish we could use and not become addicted. None of us planned on becoming addicted. Just stop while you're ahead man. I'm saying this with some clean time, hindsight is 20/20 though. I couldn't see what everyone around me was telling me when I started using. C'est la vie. Best of luck!

 

[madGardner]

I'm thinking long and hard on this. From the start I was/still very naive. Curiosity had got the best of me. My mind is totally warped, not in a fucked up way,but as in I'll be doing some serious thinking time about everything covered here. The reason I think that the feeling outweighs the risks is possibly because I've never experienced the risks myself, I am only aware of them. The friend that uses and some think is a bad influence is most likely the reason I have not become addicted yet. I look to him as a guide through these waters as he has been navigating them for 10 plus years. He's a good person despite what some of you think. I've been cut off for three days and will be for awhile longer, whilst he still uses. I went over to his house today and he got good and well, while I smoked my pot. I wasn't jealous or mad I understood why he was doing that. He has proved to be much more responsible than I am. And what makes you guys think that these drugs are readily available to me? I've never been able to get these drugs by myself.
My point now is that I'm reconsidering everything. There's a reason you guys are telling me all this. I can't say that I'll stop, because I don't know if I will, I'm debating hardcore with myself. By the way if I were to become addicted it would be to heroin, not meth. I enjoy heroin much more than meth. "Who am I to think I can avoid an addiction, when the majority could not.", Is one of my current thoughts. Most of my previous posts were foolish, but I hope I am learning something here, It's not in one ear and out the other. It was my inexperience and naivety that led me to my previous conclusions. Clearly the odds are against me. I need a long time to think by myself now.

 

[Tommyboy]

^ Honestly, it seems like you may have even more of an addictive personality than a lot of people. Going on a binge like that right after starting? I didn't use that often in a week until I had been using opiates for close to two years, and when I did use for 5 days in a week, it was with vicodin. I was using opiates for 3 years before moving on to heroin, and you dove right into heroin use.

I wouldn't trust that friend if I were you. You are saying that you can't get the drug on your own, so you rely on him. I am sure he knows this, so it's not one of those "I'd rather him get it safely through me, than to get it in a dangerous place" types of reasons for him justifying supplying you. I forgot your age, but I think you said you are around 17 years old. I would never introduce someone your age to heroin or meth, so don't be so quick to say that he is your "guide." If he has been using for 10 years, he knows what it does to people, and he is sick for giving you the drugs to use. I'm assuming that he is in his late twenties if he's been using for 10 years, so trust me when I say that anybody that age that is giving heroin and meth to someone your age is a twisted person.

 

[Sepher]

I wouldn't trust that friend if I were you. You are saying that you can't get the drug on your own, so you rely on him. I am sure he knows this, so it's not one of those "I'd rather him get it safely through me, than to get it in a dangerous place" types of reasons for him justifying supplying you. I forgot your age, but I think you said you are around 17 years old. I would never introduce someone your age to heroin or meth, so don't be so quick to say that he is your "guide." If he has been using for 10 years, he knows what it does to people, and he is sick for giving you the drugs to use. I'm assuming that he is in his late twenties if he's been using for 10 years, so trust me when I say that anybody that age that is giving heroin and meth to someone your age is a twisted person.

Exactly this. Feeding up a naive opiate user who can't score himself and getting them dabbling? MadGardner, when you decide to go on runs you're gonna be going through him, yes, and you'll either be sharing with him cos he's been such a good guy to you, right, or he'll take his cut without you knowing. It's absolutely classic fella. Your feeling that you're beholden to him cos he's been right by you, coupled with your desire for the gear potentially makes you very easily manipulable. Not giving you any gear today while he's using could perhaps be part of that game: if you wanna get high, it's time that you were paying for it. He is not to be trusted IMO.

 

[Znegative]

^ Honestly, it seems like you may have even more of an addictive personality than a lot of people. Going on a binge like that right after starting? I didn't use that often in a week until I had been using opiates for close to two years, and when I did use for 5 days in a week, it was with vicodin. I was using opiates for 3 years before moving on to heroin, and you dove right into heroin use.

I wouldn't trust that friend if I were you. You are saying that you can't get the drug on your own, so you rely on him. I am sure he knows this, so it's not one of those "I'd rather him get it safely through me, than to get it in a dangerous place" types of reasons for him justifying supplying you. I forgot your age, but I think you said you are around 17 years old. I would never introduce someone your age to heroin or meth, so don't be so quick to say that he is your "guide." If he has been using for 10 years, he knows what it does to people, and he is sick for giving you the drugs to use. I'm assuming that he is in his late twenties if he's been using for 10 years, so trust me when I say that anybody that age that is giving heroin and meth to someone your age is a twisted person.

Yea this is totally true. I started using heroin when I was 18, and these homeless guys that me and one of my best friends were "friends" with would cop for us, and usually end up shorting us a bag or several.Looking back I'm amazed anyone sold heroin to me as I still can pass for 18 now, when I'm 23.
He's not trying to help you cop dope without having to involve yourself in danger, he's helping you get strung out, so he can start charging you every time you need to cop. This is unfortunately how a lot of heroin addicts can afford there habits, or at least the ones around where I'm from

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I'm thinking long and hard on this. From the start I was/still very naive. Curiosity had got the best of me. My mind is totally warped, not in a fucked up way,but as in I'll be doing some serious thinking time about everything covered here. The reason I think that the feeling outweighs the risks is possibly because I've never experienced the risks myself, I am only aware of them. The friend that uses and some think is a bad influence is most likely the reason I have not become addicted yet. I look to him as a guide through these waters as he has been navigating them for 10 plus years. He's a good person despite what some of you think. I've been cut off for three days and will be for awhile longer, whilst he still uses. I went over to his house today and he got good and well, while I smoked my pot. I wasn't jealous or mad I understood why he was doing that. He has proved to be much more responsible than I am. And what makes you guys think that these drugs are readily available to me? I've never been able to get these drugs by myself.
My point now is that I'm reconsidering everything. There's a reason you guys are telling me all this. I can't say that I'll stop, because I don't know if I will, I'm debating hardcore with myself. By the way if I were to become addicted it would be to heroin, not meth. I enjoy heroin much more than meth. "Who am I to think I can avoid an addiction, when the majority could not.", Is one of my current thoughts. Most of my previous posts were foolish, but I hope I am learning something here, It's not in one ear and out the other. It was my inexperience and naivety that led me to my previous conclusions. Clearly the odds are against me. I need a long time to think by myself now.

Awesome reply MadGardner. I am really happy that you have decided to drop the idea that you "KNOW" you won't get addicted and are now showing some uncertainty, humility, self-insight, and trying to look at yourself and what is going on with your drug use and inside your head. This is a harm-reduction forum, so no one is going to judge you for using or judge you if you are/become addicted, but it is really helpful if you can be honest with yourself and others and consider the validity of what experienced drug users have to say. I think your last post was really mature and shows you are beginning to do that and to realize that you don't know everything or have it all figured out. Don't worry, no one does! And many addicts started out thinking just like you. I just wish I had had someone to warn me of the risks I was taking when I was in your situation and explain to me what heroin dependence was really like.

No one said your friend was a "bad person", but we can't help but question the motivations of someone who gives heroin to someone else who isn't addicted. It doesn't mean he's evil and has no redeeming features whatsoever, he just may not be a healthy person to have in your life. As several others have said, your situation with your friend who you have been using with really looks like a classic case of that friend that gets someone addicted to heroin. He's probably not doing it intentionally, but heroin addicts can be very desperate and do things they would never normally consider in order to make it easier for them to get drugs. They may downplay the horrors of addiction and physical dependence to you, not even intentionally but because they are ashamed and/or in denial with themselves about their situation, or because you only see them when they're high. They may get you using so that you will share with them in the future when you want to score (or more likely, they will just take some of your dope without you even knowing). Some people just like having someone to use with. It doesn't mean they're a "bad person", he's just not in control of his behaviour. Heroin addicts are kings at rationalizing their behaviour and convincing themselves and others that what they're doing in order to survive and stay out of withdrawals is ok. They are not evil, they just have a disease. And when that friend is ok with possibly giving you that disease, they aren't a good friend for you to be around. This is a classic situation and how many people start using heroin and become addicted. Plus, like others have said, I'm a little curious about this guy's age. If you are 17 and he has been using for 10 years, how old is he? I'm also curious whether you are male or female?

The reason I said drugs are easily available to you is that in order for you to use every day for a week straight they must be. You already mentioned at least 2 friends who can get drugs and "smoked you up". That sounds pretty accessible to me. Just because you have to go through a friend doesn't mean it's difficult. Your friend may have told you to take 3 days off, but all that means is that he's either feeling guilty for letting you use so much so often, or he's waiting for you to offer to pay for it or start begging him to score for you. 3 days is not a long time anyway. You don't have to go search the unfamiliar streets for someone who hopefully won't rip you off, you don't have to drive 500 miles to score, and you aren't being drug-tested or something else that would make it more difficult to use. Therefore, you have "easy" access to drugs.

I really wish you the best, and if you continue to use please don't feel like you can't tell us or talk to us about it. I would strongly encourage you look up or ask for harm-reduction methods about drug use. If only I had known some of these at your age I wouldn't be stuck, for example, with veins that are so damaged for life that they couldn't even give me an IV in the ambulance after I was in a serious accident. Now if anything happens to me and I need a life-saving injection or a blood transfusion they have to cut my skin and flesh open so they can literally see the exposed deeper veins.

And we can give you some advice about what few things you can try to do to avoid becoming physically dependent for as long as possible if you do continue using.

 

[OpanRanger30]

Yea this is totally true. I started using heroin when I was 18, and these homeless guys that me and one of my best friends were "friends" with would cop for us, and usually end up shorting us a bag or several.Looking back I'm amazed anyone sold heroin to me as I still can pass for 18 now, when I'm 23.

lol this brought back some memories. It's almost like a rite of passage getting cu$tied at first

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Wow, dancer wasnt kidding. And obviously I dont wish this on anybody

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_leukoencephalopathy

Yeah, it's really sad :-( And surprisingly few people are aware of it except serious addicts in cities where it's reached epidemic proportions. The saddest thing is, the people who get it are almost always relatively new or "recreational" users, suburban kids in their teens and 20s - this may just be because they are more likely to be smoking h whereas down-and-out addicts are almost always injectors. There are some things that one can do to reduce their risk of getting this terrible disease if anyone is interested.

Swimming Dancer :Yeah but even if he is one of the few who are "immune" to opiate addiction, what are the chances of not getting addicted to either heroin or meth. He's playing with two separate fires.

Oh totally. I don't think anyone is immune and I did say that the OP was likely to be predisposed for addiction, particularly because of the history of depression. I don't believe anyone is completely immune to heroin addiction, they just make it out because of luck, but addiction doesn't discriminate and the risk of addiction goes up every time you use. I was just trying to explain that there is no way to control whether you get addicted or not, the people who manage not to get addicted are just lucky - it's nothing to do with choice, willpower or intelligence. As for meth, that is just as addictive as heroin, but not as physically dependence causing, so it is - relatively-speaking - easier to quit even after you've been addicted. That's why I've been mainly talking about the heroin, and because it seems to be the OP's "drug of choice" right now. But meth addiction can definitely creep up on you too, even when at first you didn't think you liked it enough for that to happen. "Playing with fire" is a very apt analogy for using hard drugs.

23% of people who ever try heroin become addicted to the substance

I would be shocked if that estimate wasn't WAY smaller than the real number. Plus that statistic was actually talking about the number of people who reported they became physically dependent. Addiction can happen without physical dependence. Or someone can use for quite a while before becoming physically dependent, but they may already be addicted. Sometimes we accidentally use "addiction" to mean physically dependent, but they are actually 2 seperate things. Of course many people who are addicted to heroin don't realize it if they aren't yet physically dependent. They think that if they don't use every day, or they don't get very sick when they stop using for a few days, that means they can't be addicted.

Also, I don't trust any survey results on topics like drugs and sex, because a lot of people are not going to tell the truth, even on an anonymous study. I would guess that at the very least 50% of people who try heroin become addicted, and that the risk goes up substantially for every time they use, the frequency of use, the younger they are when they first start using, and other risk factors like heredity and mental illness.

 

[Fresco]

And many addicts started out thinking just like you. I just wish I had had someone to warn me of the risks I was taking when I was in your situation and explain to me what heroin dependence was really like

This is why this forum is awesome.

I developed a painkiller addiction (codeine first and then oxycontin) with my herniated disk. After having gone through nasty withdrawal from both these pills (and trust me, codeine WD is no picnic either), and after reading some of the heroin WD accounts of some posters on this forum, I can honestly say I never ever want to mess with something as strong as heroin!!

 

[debbbideb]

I guarentee you he was high on either crystal or gear and was in a euphoric state. When you are in pure euphoria you just think the world is great and your thoughts are rational, "oh yea I feel incredible right now, I can easily never get addicted lol I'm god", let's go make a thread about how I just started doing crystal and dope a month ago and how I'll never get addicted! 8(

FOR REAL!
and swimming dancer...I had put my two cents in a while back in this thread..but I am glad you said what you said in your last thingy...I hope he listens.. I am picturing this young person at such a cross roads when he started this. I hope it has in some way helped him choose the right path.

 

[debbbideb]

I'm thinking long and hard on this. From the start I was/still very naive. Curiosity had got the best of me. My mind is totally warped, not in a fucked up way,but as in I'll be doing some serious thinking time about everything covered here. The reason I think that the feeling outweighs the risks is possibly because I've never experienced the risks myself, I am only aware of them. The friend that uses and some think is a bad influence is most likely the reason I have not become addicted yet. I look to him as a guide through these waters as he has been navigating them for 10 plus years. He's a good person despite what some of you think. I've been cut off for three days and will be for awhile longer, whilst he still uses. I went over to his house today and he got good and well, while I smoked my pot. I wasn't jealous or mad I understood why he was doing that. He has proved to be much more responsible than I am. And what makes you guys think that these drugs are readily available to me? I've never been able to get these drugs by myself.
My point now is that I'm reconsidering everything. There's a reason you guys are telling me all this. I can't say that I'll stop, because I don't know if I will, I'm debating hardcore with myself. By the way if I were to become addicted it would be to heroin, not meth. I enjoy heroin much more than meth. "Who am I to think I can avoid an addiction, when the majority could not.", Is one of my current thoughts. Most of my previous posts were foolish, but I hope I am learning something here, It's not in one ear and out the other. It was my inexperience and naivety that led me to my previous conclusions. Clearly the odds are against me. I need a long time to think by myself now.

At the end of the day (or the quote..lol) Life is what it is.. Trying drugs and doing drugs are one and the same at this point. Choose life babe! I did not, when I was your age. I am still trying to choose life, day by day now...but I`m about ten years behind where I should be at 32. You spoke a lot about things you love more then drugs. FOCUS on them! They are real and being high is NOT. Choose life!

 

[Swimmingdancer]

This is why this forum is awesome.

I developed a painkiller addiction (codeine first and then oxycontin) with my herniated disk. After having gone through nasty withdrawal from both these pills (and trust me, codeine WD is no picnic either), and after reading some of the heroin WD accounts of some posters on this forum, I can honestly say I never ever want to mess with something as strong as heroin!!

Yeah, I really wish that forums like this existed back when I started using! I had to rely on getting books from the library, where I read that "heroin does not cause any long-term health problems" and that "withdrawing from opiates after becoming physically dependent causes flu-like symptoms" - both of which are complete bullshit! My only other source of info was heroin-user friends who wanted me to buy them dope and were totally in denial about their addiction.

FOR REAL!
and swimming dancer...I had put my two cents in a while back in this thread..but I am glad you said what you said in your last thingy...I hope he listens.. I am picturing this young person at such a cross roads when he started this. I hope it has in some way helped him choose the right path.

Yeah, thanks, I hope we didn't scare him/her away!

 

[Tommyboy]

Yeah, I really wish that forums like this existed back when I started using! I had to rely on getting books from the library, where I read that "heroin does not cause any long-term health problems" and that "withdrawing from opiates after becoming physically dependent causes flu-like symptoms" - both of which are complete bullshit! My only other source of info was heroin-user friends who wanted me to buy them dope and were totally in denial about their addiction.

What long-term health problems does it cause?