Heroin Using Hard Drugs Without Addiction?

[Tommyboy]

^ I think I already mentioned that I still use occasionally. Last Friday was the last time. How do I do it? Well, I know what being strung out feels like, so I avoid it by only using occasionally. I still think that most people need to experience withdrawal before being able to cut back to occasional use, but you still run the risk of getting strung out again if you are using.

When I was 17, I didn't even think of using opiates really, and never meth (still haven't). So dealing with trauma at that age was never something that I would consider doing with drugs. A few years later though? You bet.

I've taken 8 months off for the past 3 years, and I would still consider it a battle not worth fighting.

I'm 25 now, and have been using since 18 or 19, so a lot happens during that time.

 

[Znegative]

I think the point everyone is trying to get across is that using opiates or meth is just a stupid idea if your trying to not get addicted to anything. Saying you'll do heroin when you "feel like it"? That sounds like a great idea, in fact I feel like doing some right now

 

[Swimmingdancer]

It's not that I wanted to prove anything.......And are you guys reading all the posts? I mentioned more than once that I'm not planning dates to use and shit like that. I said I'll use when I feel like it,

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I read all the posts in detail. When I said that you are planning to use again, I didn't mean that you have planned a specific date, I just meant that you acknowledged that you are definitely going to use again. The thing is that every person who gets seriously hopelessly addicted starts out saying "I'll only use when I feel like it". That doesn't in some way prevent them from getting addicted eventually.

and to someone who said why even try h at all? Why would somebody climb a tree or smoke a cigarette?

What I said was that if you fully understand how horrible addiction and physical dependence are, why is it worth it to you to use heroin? I would actually really like to know your answer, it isn't just a rhetorical question.
As for your questions, the reason why someone would do something dangerous is either because they don't actually understand the risks, or they feel that the potential risks are worth the rewards, or they are just not thinking rationally about it.

I take it very seriously and know the risks associated with use. Even after multiple h and meth use I still enjoy pot more. I wasn't saying that I'm immune either...just that I feel I have less of a chance that I've already explained. Heroin use once a few months with no set date or anything couldn't possibly be bad.

I don't think that anyone who hasn't experienced addiction first-hand can fully understand the risks associated with use. It is unlike anything you have ever experienced. This is a big part of the problem with heroin, because it is almost impossible to explain to someone what they are getting themselves into. Unfortunately I don't know what the answer is - I know that when I was in your situation no one could have talked me out of it either or convinced me that the high risks made it not even worth trying. People often have to make their own mistakes before they can learn from them.

I guess all we can really do is do our best to explain what addiction and withdrawal is really like - if you're willing to even hear about it - and give you advice about harm reduction methods. I used for almost a year before I became physically dependent on heroin. I can tell you about that and how I managed it if you want. I can tell you about how I also ended up being able to use occasionally after I went through a long period of addiction and physical dependence too. And I can tell you about ways to reduce the harm to yourself and your life from using heroin (or meth), or ways to stay "functional" and not destroy your life even if you do start using more often or end up becoming addicted.

Please don't get defensive, the people who are trying to talk you out of doing heroin or make you understand how easy it is to get addicted for someone in your situation are just trying to help and are coming from a place of caring. And I don't think anyone accused you of deliberately lying. It is just really hard for others who have made the mistake of thinking they can do a highly addictive drug without becoming addicted and paid dearly from it to see someone else doing it. Please don't get mad at us for not wanting you to go through horrible suffering.

I also saw something on traumatic events setting one on a road to addiction. This possibly could have happened to me had I used a few months earlier. My family has a history or severe depression and my dad gets it bad too. I started showing signs of it, I wanted to stay in bed all day, not hangout with anyone, which both made me feel even worse. I had suicidal thoughts and thoughts of just vanishing, being nowhere or anyone, I didn't want to exist basically.

I'm confused, what makes you think that this risk is now over? Or that if something traumatic happens again some day, or you start feeling depressed again that you won't subconciously increase your drug use (like everyone else)? When people turn to drugs to deal with difficult times, it is not like an automatic and thought-out conscious thing. It's not that someone says to themselves "I'm depressed, I think I'm going to start doing heroin all the time". If you are predisposed to depression that strongly puts you at risk for drug addiction, particularly heroin addiction, regardless of how you feel now or what you think. That is a scientific fact. You need to be extra extra careful.

Best of luck and take care of yourself. This may just be something you need to go through and no one can talk you out of. But try not to ignore everything we have to say just because some of it isn't what you wanted to hear. People are just being honest and they have a lot of good advice in there too.

 

[Tommyboy]

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I read all the posts in detail. When I said that you are planning to use again, I didn't mean that you have planned a specific date, I just meant that you acknowledged that you are definitely going to use again. The thing is that every person who gets seriously hopelessly addicted starts out saying "I'll only use when I feel like it". That doesn't in some way prevent them from getting addicted eventually.

I have fully read his posts too. No matter how you put it, most of us have thought that way too. From the rationalization, to the denial, to thinking that we have less of a chance to get addicted than other people.

Please don't get defensive, the people who are trying to talk you out of doing heroin or make you understand how easy it is to get addicted for someone in your situation are just trying to help and are coming from a place of caring. And I don't think anyone accused you of deliberately lying. It is just really hard for others who have made the mistake of thinking they can do a highly addictive drug without becoming addicted and paid dearly from it to see someone else doing it. Please don't get mad at us for not wanting you to go through horrible suffering.

I agree with this as well. Don't get frustrated thinking that we are questioning your character. We are merely trying to prevent yet another person from getting addicted after thinking that they can use without getting addicted. I started using vicodin in 2004, and it wasn't until late 2006 that I was really addicted, and it was to oxy before getting involved with heroin. All opiates are addictive in their own right, but jumping right into heroin use is a more direct and dangerous way to go about it.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Yep, it is just one of those things where I can't imagine anyone thinking the risk of addiction and physical dependence that comes with heroin is worth the "high", unless:
a) they don't truly understand what full-blown serious addiction and physical dependence is actually like (which is extremely common),
b) they are already addicted,
c) they are so extremely depressed that they are thinking of killing themselves and that heroin is the only option they feel they have to prevent this, or
d) they have convinced themselves that the risk somehow doesn't apply to them or they are ignoring the risk (which is also extremely common).

I am very interested to know what madGardner thinks as far as why is it worth the risk, or anyone who is new to heroin for that matter.

I am also willing to offer advice which may reduce the risk of heroin having a harmful impact on one's life if they are going to use it regardless. I am not here to judge

 

[nudemonkei]

I don't think that any addict is going to read your post and think "why didn't I think of that? Once a month, That's the ticket!"

I must say, this literally made me laugh out loud. I've encountered wax-bags of dope that were referred to as tickets, and my mental image was someone saying "why didn't I think of that, once a month...", then pointing to a bag of dope and saying "that's the ticket!"

In my experience, I've only used heroin on three to four occasions each of the last three years...but that was following five years of heavy opiate addiction and alcoholism, multiple overdoses, rhabdomyolsis and nerve damage, jail, poverty, alienation...all that good shit. The pride comes before the fall. If one CAN manage to use strong substances responsibly, more power to them. However, the real world shows that this is pretty damned-near impossible to find over the long-term.



~Monk

 

[KidNapster]

i know millions of posts are like this but whatever ill put my little story in nice and quick. So yea i had the same thinking you did and did heroin on the weekends. a friday and saturday thing. Mostly because i was taking mandatory drug tests during the week because of court ordered shit. so i would do a lot of the weekend and feel kinda shitty but not that bad during the week. i did this for months. once court ended i tried to keep that up and it didnt last and became full on every day. Hey some people can do it with will power but many fail. good luck

 

[Fresco]

If one CAN manage to use strong substances responsibly, more power to them. However, the real world shows that this is pretty damned-near impossible to find over the long-term

~Monk

Amen to that

 

[madGardner]

Since I have last been on I have experienced much more of these drugs. I hung out with a friend who uses and has been using for years, he injects of course, I stick to my skillet. He uses pretty much the same way Tommyboy was saying he uses. He's got serious connects so lucky for me being a new user I'm able to get fire h and crystal. I've had shitty quality stuff as well, so I can tell the difference. Anyways the past week I kicked it with him I used everyday even though I wasn't buying he always smoked me out, very generous person. The seventh day I took sober, but by night I felt like shit. Big headache, cold sweats, and I could not get comfortable at all. If I tried laying still to go to sleep I would get so uncomfortable that I had to sit up, It's hard to explain but my arms were so uncomfortable I punched one of them as hard as I could to get rid of the uncomfortable feeling, but it just hurt really fucking bad and left a bruise. Overall it was an extremely shitty night, I got about a total of 30-45 minutes of sleep. The next morning I felt much better after I had coffee and breakfast. This was my first somewhat of a withdrawal. My friend had warned me I would have minor w/d symptoms, and I had anticipated them on my own as well. I can imagine what a w/d after weeks or months of use would be like (hell). I toughed it out though, and stayed sober the next two days. During my sober days I felt fine. By the way during those six days it was heroin only I was using. Toward the end of my third day sober my friend introduced me to a good friend of his who smoked me out till I was good and nodded, later that night after we ate a bunch he smoked me out with a good amount of meth. I was extremely sparked, stayed up the whole night and went to bed early in the morning. It was my first time using meth in about a month and it was fun, toward morning though I felt way drained. I've been sober one day now currently. My user friend is a serious person when it comes to drugs, the kind of person that would check me if I got out of line. The other night when we were sparked we carried out a three hour conversation. One of the serious ones, about life, drugs, people, us, and lots of other stuff. At the end we decided we both needed some sober time to get clear headed and on top of our priorities. I personally want to stay sober for about 2-3 weeks from anything except coffee, and the pot I smoke at night. He is going to try for a week I believe.
You guys were right about my mind changing after the drugs. I've had both positive and negative changes on certain thoughts. Fuck using once a month, I know that if I get smoked out on the weekends or buy a half gram for two day use I'll be fine if I can leave a certain amount of days in between use. Now I'm not saying that I'll be using every weekend, but I will definitely be using more than once a month. I have become more fond of the drug, but I also KNOW what it takes to avoid physical addiction, like my user friend knows as well but he told me that it was years before he starting using like that. I do like the drug and there is nothing wrong with that. I am full aware of the risks associated with what I am doing. Everyone has their "guilty pleasure" whether it be junk food, cigarettes, pornography, or anything else humans like that we know are bad for us (physically and/or mentally). Right now mine happens to be heroin, but it sure as hell isn't junk food, ciggs, or porn. Addiction is a risk associated with heroin that I am full aware of. Just like a husband or wife cheating on their other knows they run the risk of getting caught resulting in emotional problems and relationship problems. Or people who enjoy fast/junk food know that they run the risk of obesity or diabetes or any other poor diet related illness. I went through all the posts and feel a lot different than my first post. Not to say that I don't like my outdoor activities ( I still do just as much), but i feel different thoughts about my use. My thoughts are always evolving as this thread grows, I really do appreciate everyone's input. What do you guys think now? Same thoughts? Different advice?

 

[madGardner]

By the way, a side note, I noticed if I use two days in a row and stop I won't have w/d symptoms, but when I hit the third day and stop using I notice the discomfort. This has proven for myself multiple times.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Since I have last been on I have experienced much more of these drugs. I hung out with a friend who uses and has been using for years, he injects of course, I stick to my skillet. He uses pretty much the same way Tommyboy was saying he uses. He's got serious connects so lucky for me being a new user I'm able to get fire h and crystal. I've had shitty quality stuff as well, so I can tell the difference. Anyways the past week I kicked it with him I used everyday even though I wasn't buying he always smoked me out, very generous person. The seventh day I took sober, but by night I felt like shit. Big headache, cold sweats, and I could not get comfortable at all. If I tried laying still to go to sleep I would get so uncomfortable that I had to sit up, It's hard to explain but my arms were so uncomfortable I punched one of them as hard as I could to get rid of the uncomfortable feeling, but it just hurt really fucking bad and left a bruise. Overall it was an extremely shitty night, I got about a total of 30-45 minutes of sleep. The next morning I felt much better after I had coffee and breakfast. This was my first somewhat of a withdrawal. My friend had warned me I would have minor w/d symptoms, and I had anticipated them on my own as well. I can imagine what a w/d after weeks or months of use would be like (hell). I toughed it out though, and stayed sober the next two days. During my sober days I felt fine. By the way during those six days it was heroin only I was using. Toward the end of my third day sober my friend introduced me to a good friend of his who smoked me out till I was good and nodded, later that night after we ate a bunch he smoked me out with a good amount of meth. I was extremely sparked, stayed up the whole night and went to bed early in the morning. It was my first time using meth in about a month and it was fun, toward morning though I felt way drained. I've been sober one day now currently. My user friend is a serious person when it comes to drugs, the kind of person that would check me if I got out of line. The other night when we were sparked we carried out a three hour conversation. One of the serious ones, about life, drugs, people, us, and lots of other stuff. At the end we decided we both needed some sober time to get clear headed and on top of our priorities. I personally want to stay sober for about 2-3 weeks from anything except coffee, and the pot I smoke at night. He is going to try for a week I believe.
You guys were right about my mind changing after the drugs. I've had both positive and negative changes on certain thoughts. Fuck using once a month, I know that if I get smoked out on the weekends or buy a half gram for two day use I'll be fine if I can leave a certain amount of days in between use. Now I'm not saying that I'll be using every weekend, but I will definitely be using more than once a month. I have become more fond of the drug, but I also KNOW what it takes to avoid physical addiction, like my user friend knows as well but he told me that it was years before he starting using like that. I do like the drug and there is nothing wrong with that. I am full aware of the risks associated with what I am doing. Everyone has their "guilty pleasure" whether it be junk food, cigarettes, pornography, or anything else humans like that we know are bad for us (physically and/or mentally). Right now mine happens to be heroin, but it sure as hell isn't junk food, ciggs, or porn. Addiction is a risk associated with heroin that I am full aware of. Just like a husband or wife cheating on their other knows they run the risk of getting caught resulting in emotional problems and relationship problems. Or people who enjoy fast/junk food know that they run the risk of obesity or diabetes or any other poor diet related illness. I went through all the posts and feel a lot different than my first post. Not to say that I don't like my outdoor activities ( I still do just as much), but i feel different thoughts about my use. My thoughts are always evolving as this thread grows, I really do appreciate everyone's input. What do you guys think now? Same thoughts? Different advice?

Your post made me want to cry. I don't want to say "I told you so" or make you feel bad for being honest about how often you've been using, you can always be honest here. But how can you tell us that you just spent over a week straight using heroin, to the point that you actually got mild withdrawal symptoms, after you had told us you intended not to use for at least a month and only once in a while at that, but then say "I'll be fine if I can leave a certain amount of days in between use" and "I KNOW what it takes to avoid physical addiction"?? You cannot possibly understand the risks associated with what you're doing, nor the consequences associated with addiction and/or physical dependence. Not that I blame you, no one who hasn't been there can properly comprehend what it's like. It is is NOT the same as any of the other activities or "vices" you mentioned. Not at all. To get just a tiny sense of what it's like once your physically dependent, think about the most horrible painful thing you have ever experienced, multiply that by 10,000, add in that you don't give a shit about anything in the world other than feeling better, then add in the excruciating fact that you know you can do something that will make you feel better.

You still haven't answered my question as to why, if, as you claim, you understand the risks and what addiction is like, why is using heroin worth that risk to you? I seriously want to know.

Personally, I know you don't want to hear this but my advice is firstly that your friend sounds like a shit friend who perhaps subconsciously wants you to be in the same situation so they have someone to score/use dope with. And second, you need to STOP using right now before it's too late. I know you won't do this. It is probably too late for you by now anyway, and I didn't listen when I was in your situation either, but you asked what we thought and what our advice was. I don't mean to be harsh or offend you, but it is kind of offensive to me (and probably most addicts here) that you can be so cocky that you have it all figured out and you "know" how to avoid addiction and physical dependence. It would be much easier to deal with if you showed some uncertainty and humility and didn't give us the impression that you think you are smarter than everyone who has gotten addicted to this beast of a drug. I could take statements more like "I think I might getting addicted but I can't help myself" a lot better than what sounds like "I have been using heroin every day but I know I won't get addicted and I am going to ignore all advice to the contrary". Again, sorry to be harsh but I am just being honest and am just coming from a place of frustration and concern.

 

[Znegative]

I felt the same way, I wanted to revel in the glory of being right, but no one should go through this shit. I actually agree with you on certain points you made, but at the same time you sound kind of like I did when I was 19 (I'm only 23 now, but a lot goes on in a few years). In the end everyone that experiences heroin withdrawal knows how long it takes to get a habit, but having that kind of self knowledge really doesn't help at all. Eventually you'll have a mind frame like "well I got enough money to keep me straight for two weeks, so I won't worry about withdrawals" and then that moneys gone in like four days and your fucked. If you insist on doing a hard drug, really try and stick to one. I got really into speed balling last fall, and that is the most ungodly expensive habit to maintaine. Eventually I had to go to detox so I wouldn't have to worry about the heroin anymore, was just using it to maintain.

 

[Auwksee1991]

Damn dude I know this is a serious thread and all but reading your first post about the vapor skillet got me salivating.

how does that work for you? is there any taste left on the skillet? have you used other methods of smoking the H, and how do they compare?

i love my skillet, and i love smoking new compounds on it.

BTW, just so I contribute something to this thread, meth or crack has never been a problem at all for me. I can blast rocks for days and just stop cold turkey and look back on those past days like "damn what the fuck was I thinking, fuck coke or meth!"

but good ol heroin on the other hand, well... that's one monkey that's never fully off my back. or my mind

 

[Znegative]

Just cause meth and cocaine aren't physically addicting like opiates doesn't mean there not very addicting though. I mean I agree to the guy above me that heroics what I always needed to feel good and confident and motivated, but when I started shooting cocaine, that really brought me too my knees. I would even say for myself that I have a worse problem with cocaine, because once I start with it, I never want to stop, even when I start hallucinating. Not to mention that using cocaine always brings me back to heroin too.. I don't know there both fucking addictive, but I never feel sattisfied unless I have both.

 

[Sepher]

MadGardner, have a read through of your last post, and try to be objective as you do. Read it as though someone else had written it. Is there anything that leaps out at you, or would give you pause if someone you knew had written it? Reason I'm suggesting you do that is because as I read it, in the context of your previous posts, you are already beginning to rationalise a more frequent pattern of use than you originally intended. It's one of the warning signs on the path to addiction I tell users to look out for, and you're doing it. You've gone from talking about using once every coupla months to using more than once a month or maybe even most weekends for a coupla days at a time, always being sure to leave a coupla days between runs of course.

I worry now that the next self-deceiving bit of mind trickery you'll bring into play is the idea that now you've had a taste of withdrawal after your little 6 day run ( No you haven't! ) and were able to 'tough it out' ( What are you on about? ) you'll kid yourself that withdrawal ain't so bad, and you must be unusually strong-willed to quit it there and have a few days off, therefore better able to manage your use than all those other users out there who weren't quite as determined as you. Trust me, you have no idea what a proper withdrawal feels like, and no, you've not toughed anything out, yet. I don't mean that to sound harsh, and I'm not trying to belittle you. It is a simple statement of fact based on experience. You OTOH seem to be kidding yourself already.

 

[DexterMeth]

Let him feel some real withdrawals, so he can prove us wrong.

 

[debbbideb]

I dont want to sound mean but honestly, why did you post this? Just think about it, figure it out for yourself. What inner force in your psyche made you think of posting this was a good idea and what sort of answers were you hoping for?
Were you hoping for encouragement from a community of drug addicts that addiction is a thing that can be easily avoided?
Is this entire post not your trying to rationalize with yourself that you are different than the rest of them?
And why bother posting when youve just begun your little chipping adventure? Cant you see that everyone only seems so hostile on here because you have absolutely nothing to back yourself up with against a barrage of real life experiences from individuals who are exactly the same as you, who've felt every single thought that has been running through your head, and the only thing that makes them junkies and you and me not is time.
Im doing the chipping thing too, but have been for a tiny bit longer than you have. I've never experienced the whole physical addiction thing, but the inevitability and hopefulness for a future in which I dont fuck up my life is slowly fading as reality is crammed down my throat. Its easy to say ill just give it a shot, whatever happens to me happens, because I think we all did. But is such a romance really worth it? Is this little fling with self destruction really worth it when the odds are against you from the start? Again, Im not there either, but quite frankly, posts like this scare the fuck out of me.
We all have the perfect personality and just the right balance in our lives that we know we can get away with it, dont we?
Anyways, sorry about that ramble, hope you got something out of it. Goodluck with that.

exactly what I was thinking!

 

[OpanRanger30]

lol @ WDs from a six day habit....

try six months (or years, for that matter) and then report back...

 

[ms4104]

Yeah that story screams naivety. You've already crossed a line you drew for your self.. using once a month. And that is after practically no use.. a test drive at the dealership. What's going to happen when your withdrawing from a serious habit? How many more times will you push the line.. from a few times a month shit QUICKLY (moreso than weed for instance) escalate to everyday use. You can have all the willpower in the world, good genes, family money, whatever magical power you think you have, but CHANCES are addiction will not skip over you.

I wish I read not only what I wanted to read, but what experienced users were actually writing before I thought I could use oxy recreationally. Now ive been shooting dope for god knkows how long.. currently 'clean' on suboxone but a long way to go before the obsession goes away. No where near recovered.

 

[rosepainpt]

Wow, do you have different neurotransmitters and receptors in your brain than "normal" human's do??? Drug addiction does not discriminate. The drugs do not care what your IQ is, how much money you make, how religious you are and so on. When your brain craves more and more of the drug it wants, you will use more, and then some more, until you are using everyday.....or more than once a day. When 6-8 hours go by and you begin to feel sick and do not know what to do unless you get your fix, then this plan will be like an idea being flushed down the toilet. To be honest, it makes me sad because addictions is a disease and people do not say, when I grow up, I want to be a drug addict. Addicts do not wake up proud and feeling hopeful, they wake up scrambling for their fix...for the dependance and addiction that their brain is now used to and NEEDS. It is like needing oxygen to breath...the addict needs their drug to function in whatever way they believe is functioning. It breaks my heart to see people who are addicted who truly want to be free of their illness and to be able to have their dreams come true....to be free from addiction and never have another craving again. I am not an addict, but my brother was one....I say he was an addict, because he is now dead due to being so high on heroin and I have no idea what else and getting in his car, driving 100 miles an hour in a residential neighborhood. He went to dodge a car in the street and ran into a metal fence. The metal poll that goes around the fence broke and went through the wind shield and through his front skull. He was rushed to shock trauma and was on life support 2 weeks, after brain surgery. He was then pronounced brain dead and my mom had to make the decision to let her son go. There are more details of his body shutting down, his organs and fluid seeping out of every pore in his body, making puddles on the floor. This is no joke and playing games with drugs, thinking you are more powerful then the drugs is immature and naive. Even though I think what you are doing is not smart. I truly hope you do not become an addict. I see the hell they go through. All I would ever want to in my life is have the magic answer to how to help those who want to quite using, to help them not crave the drug ever again. Good luck!!!!