The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread (Stack 2)

infinity

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Welcome to the Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread



Piracetam: the most well-known original smartdrug

Nootropics, also referred to as smart drugs, memory enhancers, and cognitive enhancers, are drugs, supplements, nutraceuticals, and functional foods that are purported to improve mental functions such as cognition, memory, intelligence, motivation, attention, and concentration
Note this before replying in the thread: The inventor of piracetam thought nootropics should have the following characteristics, please don't stretch the definition you use too much ;) :

1. They should enhance learning and memory.
2. They should enhance the resistance of learned behaviors/memories to conditions which tend to disrupt them (e.g. electroconvulsive shock, hypoxia).
3. They should protect the brain against various physical or chemical injuries.
4. They should increase the efficacy of the tonic cortical/subcortical control mechanisms.
5. They should lack the usual pharmacology of other psychotropic drugs (e.g. sedation, motor stimulation) and possess very few side effects and extremely low toxicity.

ANNOUNCEMENT

Please note that Bluelight's Healthy Living forum covers discussion of supplement stacks. PD only wishes to focus on cognition enhancement as an extension of consciousness expansion. We also aim to discuss the combination of nootropics with psychedelics or even other drugs, and their (potential) interactions.

Refer to HL to supplement your general discussion of vitamins and other additive nutrients.

Also please note that we do not allow discussion of branded psychoactive products, or formulas in PD (unless it pertains to FDA approved pharmaceuticals - different DXM products for example), so just list the major active principles in your product if you have some formulated pill. If you do not know which ingredients matter and which don't, just list all of them.
Wikipedia nootropic page

Previous Thread
The Big & Dandy Psychedelics and Nootropics Interaction Thread
Psychedelics as Nootropics

Subthreads (please use them):


[original post]

i wasn't sure wether this should go to PD or OD, so feel free to move

i started taking piracetam yesterday (took 4800mg yesterday and today, will take 2400mg daily from now on) and i will start with DMAE next month. most i've read about piracetam was somewhat positive, others say it didn't do anything (i have to add that i think those people took 800mg once and didn't feel anything after 60 minutes so they figured it doesn't work)

i'm also taking fish oil (1320mg omega-3 fatty acids daily)

i'd like to know if anyone has been taking nootropics in general daily and noticed any non-placebo effects. please share what you have been taking for how long and how you benefit from it. i'm not sure if i can get it but i thought about taking hydergine too. for me, piracetam is available so far, but maybe someone knows a better supplement from the *cetam group or whatever.

i guess we all agree that we don't operate on our full potential.. i think i am somewhat smart, but i have memory problems and trouble focusing (not due to excessive drug use) - i really hope that it will bring some improvement for me as far as learning/cognitive functions/memory/etc go.

please note that this thread isn't limited to piracetam, but it seems to be the most common nootropic. nootropics+tryptamines or whatever should go into another thread - this one is for 'increasing your intellect' only ;)
 
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Solipsis

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Guys this is where we left off:

Sounds like a good way to start, I wouldn't mind getting to know the feel of piracetam before I start mixing with it. But now I'm curious what are the risks of pramiracetam?
Has anyone found that any of these nootropics help with PAWS from opiate addiction? For example, does anyone think that piracitam or lecithin (or any of the others mentioned) would help heal damaged opiate receptors. I could find no research on this so I'm asking for anyone's personal experiences.
I found some anecdotical reports where piracetam blocks the high of opiates.
Anyway it helped great in the last stages of withdrawal :)
I think I might have stated these earlier but some of the side effects I've found there just looking and researching into it was anxiety, restlessness, insomnia, headaches, nausea, and heartburn. I wouldn't say any of that is particularly too bad, however if you already experience any of these it may agitate it. However I'm no doctor...that is just my opinion. I'm considering adding Aniracetam to my stack at some point, not too soon though. Right now Piracetam is doing a great job, considering how the L-Theanine and Choline have been working in synergy with it.
I tried hydergine with 2C-B, had a very confusing and exhausting trip. I dont recommend it.



Thats a good remark. it takes a bit the fun of psychedelics, but if u running dry of acid then I recommend it. One tab with 1.2g of piracetam feels like 2.5x tabs, it also makes incredible horny but i think prone .


Im not sure if it was already mentioned in this thread but piracetam blocks somewhat the NMDA agonists action. If you take piracetam in the middle of a K trip, it diminishes effect like 60% and ends it much sooner, tested this 2 times.
 

OTGee

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I have been smoking synth cannibinoids for about 3 months now and daily for 2. Im still in WD's but if any of the foggyness or lack of mental intellegience persists, im going to start a Nootropic regime. Been interested in them for a while, lots of new shit for me to look up now. Goodbye morning
 

jedimafia

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are we allowed to discuss prices and source for piracetam since it is legal? I wanted to give it a try but want to make sure I'm not overpaying!
Try amazon.com(domestic only) if your in the US. Probably the only source we're allowed to discuss on here, their cheap ;)
 
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ZenPit

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Amazon has it and so does eBay. Look at all the prices for what you want (if you want powder look at all the powder prices, and same with if you want to get capsules look up other capsule prices).
 

hx_

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Thats still sourcing tho.

Anyone got experience with NOOPEPT? I've yet to notice any effects from occasional dosing.
 

jedimafia

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Recently I got really itchy when I got hot during martial arts exercizes and I was wondering if it was the fabric of the suit or biting fabric bugs or something so I overreacted and googled and stumbled upon cholinergic urticaria and I was like: cholinergic? Ehhhhhh.....
Anyway I think I overreacted and it's just that I have a bit messed up veins from too many drugs in my lifetime,
Thought I was the only one! Been happening since I was 16 (before i ever consumed any chemicals) Certainly helps to take off whatever top i'm wearing and yeah its only happened when i've become hot and sweaty. Fortunately hasn't happened for a long time now, i think its just some kind of allergy
 

Blue Druid

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I've been taking nootropics for about 3 years now. Morning stack is 400mg+ Piracetam, 150mg DMAE, ~200mg Theanine, 1000mg Omega 3, multi-vitamin.
Occasionally I'll add some Sulbutiamine and add/swap in some Oxiracetam too. I used to use, or tried out, vinpocetine, picamilon, phenibut, ALA & ALCAR & a few others but think the added benefits of those to me were minimal.

I know thats a lot less than most take but it works well for me, with Oxiracetam, DMAE & Theanine in pm.

I've found nootropics to be very valuable & effective as cognitive enhancers, I also - partly - attribute to them a significant change in the recognition & responsibility I've got at work in that time & more positive performance appraisals. Partly of course its attitude but without the boost to memory, concentration & fluidity of language I get from the nootropics I don't think I'd be doing so well.
 

Transcendence

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L-theanine does work and gives a slightly stoney relaxation, but for me only in very large doses (>1g). I don't feel anything under a gram. I suspect it may be racemic even though it's labeled as the L isomer.

For people taking choline citrate: it sucks. It's not very bioavailable, so go with alpha-GPC.

One of my new favorites I recently discovered is sulbutiamine. It feels like a very clean and non-pushy stimulant, kind of like a ramped up oxiracetam. I normally can't stand stimulants but this stuff is very nice before classes.

I've tried piracetam, aniracetam, oxiracetam, and pramiracetam. They're all useful in my opinion. Aniracetam however starts making me depressed/think dark thoughts if I take more than 800mg a day. It's almost relaxing compared to the slightly stimulating oxiracetam. Pramiracetam seems to be very neutral. Some people claim it makes them sleepy but I haven't noticed this.

I used to love phenibut but I can't take it anymore for some reason because it gives me bad rebound anxiety the next day.
 

<SpaceHead>

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Recently I read an article in scientific american discussing new treatments for depression, mentioning the recently very popular experiments with ketamine and also mentioned experiments that showed scopolamine to hold some promise in treating depression because of its antichlorogenic effect. I did some searching online and found that it could be possible that increased levels of choline or actylcholine in the brain could lead to depression. Which made me wonder if i should really be taking stuff like DMAE or choline every day as it may make it more likely for me to feel depression. I've taken piracetam, aniracetam, hydregine DMAE and choline on and off daily for quite a while and i can never be too sure if theyre really helping me because there are so many factors that effect my mood and memory and ofcourse these things are very subjective and subtle aswell. and also im sure most of us her eon BL and probably mixing in plenty of other substances, so I often wonder if its at all really possible to tell and if its worth spending the money, time and risking possible side effects and harmful interactions. On the other hand it is really just fun to occupy my time with stuff like this and placebo effect can be beneficial aswell. Maybe I should just have someone randomly switch my nootropic pills with some sugar pills and tell me a few months later and see how I've been doing!
 

fly-

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I also started about 5 days ago, omega 3-6-9 regimen and must say it definitely has an effect in dopamine system, reducing HPPD symptoms, and improving my light ADD (mainly from distracting visually from HPPD), there's anti-depressive effect probably from stopping "overthinking". I was not seeing this coming from "fish oil", but good surprise. Althought doesnt give me more mental energy like some vendors advertise.



A benefit of n−3 fatty acids is helping the brain to repair damage by promoting neuronal growth.[73] In a six-month study involving people with schizophrenia and Huntington's disease who were treated with E-EPA or a placebo, the placebo group had clearly lost cerebral tissue, while the patients given the supplements had a significant increase of grey and white matter.[109]

In the prefrontal cortex (PFC) of the brain, low brain n−3 fatty acids are thought to lower the dopaminergic neurotransmission, possibly contributing to the negative and neurocognitive symptoms in schizophrenia. This reduction in dopamine system function in the PFC may lead to an overactivity in dopaminergic function in the limbic system of the brain, which is suppressively controlled by the PFC dopamine system, causing the positive symptoms of schizophrenia. This is called the n−3 polyunsaturated fatty acid/dopamine hypothesis of schizophrenia (Ohara, 2007). This mechanism may explain why n−3 supplementation shows effects against both positive, negative and cognitive symptoms in schizophrenia.
More on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid#Psychiatric_disorders
 
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fly-

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Recently I read an article in scientific american discussing new treatments for depression, mentioning the recently very popular experiments with ketamine and also mentioned experiments that showed scopolamine to hold some promise in treating depression because of its antichlorogenic effect. I did some searching online and found that it could be possible that increased levels of choline or actylcholine in the brain could lead to depression. Which made me wonder if i should really be taking stuff like DMAE or choline every day as it may make it more likely for me to feel depression. I've taken piracetam, aniracetam, hydregine DMAE and choline on and off daily for quite a while and i can never be too sure if theyre really helping me because there are so many factors that effect my mood and memory and ofcourse these things are very subjective and subtle aswell. and also im sure most of us her eon BL and probably mixing in plenty of other substances, so I often wonder if its at all really possible to tell and if its worth spending the money, time and risking possible side effects and harmful interactions. On the other hand it is really just fun to occupy my time with stuff like this and placebo effect can be beneficial aswell. Maybe I should just have someone randomly switch my nootropic pills with some sugar pills and tell me a few months later and see how I've been doing!
This pretty much depends how much are supplementing with Choline. I do a modest amount in the morning at breakfast, and another at lunch 100mg Choline Bitratate, this is about the same as an egg, this mostly gives me is mental endurance and enhances short-term memory. I think the key is to be moderate, listen to your body/mind and know what you are taking.
 

ZenPit

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Recently I read an article in scientific american discussing new treatments for depression, mentioning the recently very popular experiments with ketamine and also mentioned experiments that showed scopolamine to hold some promise in treating depression because of its antichlorogenic effect. I did some searching online and found that it could be possible that increased levels of choline or actylcholine in the brain could lead to depression. Which made me wonder if i should really be taking stuff like DMAE or choline every day as it may make it more likely for me to feel depression. I've taken piracetam, aniracetam, hydregine DMAE and choline on and off daily for quite a while and i can never be too sure if theyre really helping me because there are so many factors that effect my mood and memory and ofcourse these things are very subjective and subtle aswell. and also im sure most of us her eon BL and probably mixing in plenty of other substances, so I often wonder if its at all really possible to tell and if its worth spending the money, time and risking possible side effects and harmful interactions. On the other hand it is really just fun to occupy my time with stuff like this and placebo effect can be beneficial aswell. Maybe I should just have someone randomly switch my nootropic pills with some sugar pills and tell me a few months later and see how I've been doing!
I've read similar things, I haven't personally experienced any depression while I've been taking my regimen. I have experienced depression before, so I would recognize the happenings. It may be due to the L-Theanine that I'm taking and Piracetam is reported to be beneficial to depression so the two working together just may be overriding the Choline-Depression.

I take around 620 Choline Bitartrate a day, with around 4,800mg of Piracetam. I would suggest starting a low dose of Choline and adjust to a find a dose that makes you comfortable without causing any depression.

Fly nice add about the Omega! I've been taking an Omega-8 psuedo-everyday so I'm sure that has been helping. I eat a lot of fish as it is though, so I'm sure I'm getting more Omegas than I know.
 

Survived Abortion

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^Good question. And also, has anyone here combined Ginkgo Biloba with psychedelics? There must be somebody. I'm starting Ginkgo today for both it's circulatory effects and it's effects on cognition. I'm specifically wondering if anybody has noticed an improvement in blood flow whilst on psychedelics, given their tendency to cause vasoconstriction. I find that the vasocontrictive effect of some psyches lingers well after the trip has finished. I'm assuming that if people are combining piracetam and hydergine with psychedelics with success, then Ginkgo should be fine.

I've started using Rhodiola Rosea daily, and although it is not necessarily a "nootropic", it is a pretty interesting stimulant. It doesn't have any jagged edges at all, no anxiety attatched to it. It feels incredibly natural to the body. :)

I've also started using Flaxseed Oil 1 gram caps, and vitamin B complex 50mg (which I usually break in half). I was taking 5-HTP for the last couple month or so, but I don't feel like I need it anywhere near as much now, so I've stopped it. The Rhodiola seems to pick up where the 5-HTP left off except it's much more transparent, in that with the 5-HTP I could feel it entering my system, I would even get light visuals as the serotonin was ramping up in my brain and I would notice a significant alteration in mood. I like the smoothness of the Rhodiola.

I would still take the 5-HTP if I needed it, because it is a completely natural way to boost serotonin levels, and it really works. But it also seems that you get to a point where your brain has so much serotonin and doesn't need all the extra supplementation.

Solipsis said:
I also take choline citrate, ALCAR and glucosamine and bought omega fat oils today.
I was going to start taking ALCAR, but after I got it I started looking up side-effects, and I was really put off. I've got about 90 grams sitting in the cupboard, but I'm not so sure any more if I should be messing around with single amino acids in that way. Perhaps I'm wrong here, I really don't know enough about it to make an informed decision. But I think I would rather just boost all the amino acids by eating lots of legumes/grains/seeds, or if lacking then supplement with organic protein mixes etc. Having enough l-lysine in the diet should be good enough to produce acetyl-l-carnitine in vivo.

I'm looking to see what I can add to my stack after the Ginkgo. Piracetam is interesting, but I'm more than wary of starting another regimen of daily synthetic drug use, especially since I've only quite recently (since December) quit a 10 year long dependence upon various pharmaceutical medications. And there just isn't enough evidence about it's long term effects to satisfy me. I know that it is based on a natural compound called pyroglutamate. I would be interested to see if this compound displayed similar nootropic qualities to piracetam, because it is found (in small amounts) in fruits and vegetables and thus would presumably (although not certainly) be safe to supplement with. It is sold by a well-known supplement brand.
 

ZenPit

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I'm looking to see what I can add to my stack after the Ginkgo. Piracetam is interesting, but I'm more than wary of starting another regimen of daily synthetic drug use, especially since I've only quite recently (since December) quit a 10 year long dependence upon various pharmaceutical medications. And there just isn't enough evidence about it's long term effects to satisfy me. I know that it is based on a natural compound called pyroglutamate. I would be interested to see if this compound displayed similar nootropic qualities to piracetam, because it is found (in small amounts) in fruits and vegetables and thus would presumably (although not certainly) be safe to supplement with. It is sold by a well-known supplement brand.
I completely understand your hesitant nature concerning synthetic drug usage. I myself have experienced prolonged addiction to certain drugs, however I thankfully don't use them any longer, and so when it comes to stimulants I tend to stay away from them as I know how I can get about them.

I can tell you though that Piracetam doesn't create any dependencies, and that if you wanted to you can completely drop using it without a second thought to it. I sometimes don't take it, I remember there was about a week period where I didn't take it (I couldn't find it online for a bit LOL!) and I didn't have any cravings or desires to use it. Piracetam oddly enough is used by some to help curb dependency issues with other drugs, I believe in either this thread or the first stack it was mentioned how Piracetam blocks opiate receptors or something of that nature and I have read countless stories of alcoholics using it to help them fight alcoholism. I can't really give any personal account on noticing anything like that considering I don't use most drugs, and I use Piracetam to help study and to help with my anxiety.

What food sources can you find pyroglutamate in? I know glutamate can be found in almost anything containing protein in it (not everything has it though!!), is it perhaps the same for pyroglutamate?
 

fly-

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Noticed tolerance to choline bitratrate now to feel 100mg choline like initial need to take 150mg, plus there seems to have less bioavailability. :?

Anyone can compare Choline Bitratate with Choline CDP or Alpha GPC?
 

ZenPit

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Interesting! I've tried looking into Noopept numerous times. Just about anything that comes up is a User Report (UR) and not that I have anything against UR's just I would also like to see actual Hard Facts (research, studies, documents) on it past the brief wikipedia article on it. I've actually heard that it didn't effect one person at all, and I've heard another actually did notice benefits however they were short lived. I do know this much about it: Noopept is supposed to be taken for 3 months then not used for a month. So it is a drug that requires cycling, however I don't know why. Could be to prevent tolerance, build up, or who knows.

Considering Bluelight is a .ru site maybe there are some Users here who can provide some nice linkage to interesting research or documents on Noopept. ;)
 
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