Tackling the bigger issues - Gay education to kids

[doofqueen]

GAY BOOKS AT DAYCARE 'INAPPROPRIATE'
Sydney Morning Herald, National News
by Jano Gibson, 29/05/2006

Daycare centres should not be used to teach children about gay and lesbian relationships, says Premier Morris Iemma.

His comments come after a report claimed a Tempe childcare centre uses books that feature characters from same-sex parent families.

The Learn to Include books include titles such as The Rainbow Cubby House, which is about a young girl and her two mothers who build a cubby house in their backyard with a little boy and his two fathers.

Federal MP for Sydney Tanya Plibersek is quoted on the Learn to Include website as saying: "I know that the kids who are reading these books might just start life with the wonderful gift of growing up without homophobic prejudice. That's great for those individual kids and it's wonderful for our whole community too."

But Mr Iemma said children as young as two-years-old are being inappropriately drawn into a gay rights debate.

"Kids should be allowed to be kids and daycare centres should not be a battleground for gender politics. I do not personally believe it appropriate for two-year-olds to be dragged into the gay rights debate."

Parents who want such issues taught to their children should do so at home, not at daycare centres, he said.

"If parents feel particularly strongly about educating children on these issues there is plenty of scope for them to do so at home where they run no risk of offending other parents who may old opposing views and who may not be able to find childcare elsewhere."

Gay and Lesbian Rights Lobby co-convenor, David Scamell, said the Learn to Include books simply teach children about acceptance and tolerance.

"Children are not being taught about sex education, but rather that some kids had two mums, some have two dads, and that's OK."

"It's unfortunate that the Daily Telegraph has wanted to jump on a bandwagon to beat up a story and it is unfortunate that it's been joined by the Premier's Department this morning," Mr Scamell said.

"[They] need to actually have a look at the educational material being taught at [the daycare centre] to realise that this actually quite a basic lesson ... they're quite important concepts but then they are not ones that go beyond the level of a five- or six-year-old."

A number of parents had chosen to send their children to the childcare centre because of the types of lessons that are taught there, he said.

Marrickville Mayor Sam Byrne


From The Rainbow Cubby House by Brenna and Vicki Harding.

"Given where the childcare centre is, it is highly likely that a number of children would come from same-sex families. If these lessons are not taught, then those children will continue to feel as though their family is not valued or accepted."

He said the the front-page of the Daily Telegraph "is probably the best reason why we actually need to have these lessons in school."

Marrickville Mayor Sam Byrne said the Premier's comments were an example of the "hysteria'' that had erupted over the use of the Learn to Include books at the council's seven day care centres.

"It's not a gay rights debate. It's not sex education. It's about inclusion and about having material that reflects the diversity of our community,'' Mr Byrne said.

"If the Premier, or anybody else out there, thinks that there are not families out there with two mums or there are not families out there with disabilities [or] from different backgrounds, then they are mad. They are crazy. They need to get out and get amongst the people again.''



MEDIA SOURCE

Sydney Morning Herald [checked 29/05/2006]
Source [FREE ACCESS]




NURSERY REVOLT
Daily Telegraph, Top Stories
by Sue Dunlevy, 29/05/2006


Marrickville Mayor Sam Byrne


PARENTS, family groups and the Federal Government are demanding a Sydney daycare centre immediately stop teaching babies and toddlers about gay, lesbian and "transgender" parenting.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So what do people think about this?

I personally think there is nothing wrong with teaching kids (of any age) that families come in all shapes and sizes and that can include two mums and dads. It will teach tolerance and acceptance and it's not like they will be talking to kids about gay SEX or anything. Just the concept of gay parent families.

I think it should be talked about openly in primary schools too!

 

[joannie_mhm]

You pretty much summed it up doofqueen

They're teaching about different family structures, not about people having sex.

I think people who have a problem with this are probably the ones who believe the idea that you choose or are influenced into becoming gay, and that exposure to the idea at a young age will make their little girl want to kiss oter little girls (oh my god no what will we do )

 

[Benefit]

Someone close this thread before I catch the gay please.

 

[MoeBro]

I'll educate kids about gay

muhahahahahahhahah

 

[leecie]

you hit the nail on the head doofqueen. it's not about teaching kids about gay sex, it's about tolerance. the whole politically correct thing can really go too far sometimes. i was sad when i heard about this.

 

[life-a]

adultification of children

homosexuality is another type of sexuality. kids dont need to know about sexuality until they at least hit ten years of age. bottom line, its the adultification of children that i dont like.

as far as family "structures" go, gays cant make a family naturally. do we need also to inform children of the politics surrounding gay life at that age, if at all as children ?

they should be busy learning mathematics and geography, not about the world of homosexuality, for godness sake.

gays, like all other people, need to realise that they dont have the RIGHT to ANYTHING, they have responsibilitys. rights just because you are of a certain sexual persuasion ? BULLSHIT.

you have the responsibility to keep children as just that. children are, for wnat of a better expression, "hard wired" to NEED a mother and father. not about deserving it, but about thats the way we are made.

try building a "house" with all "female" or all "male" joints and see just how strong it is...

 

[silvia saint]

gays, like all other people, need to realise that they dont have the RIGHT to ANYTHING, they have responsibilitys. rights just because you are of a certain sexual persuasion ? BULLSHIT.

you have the responsibility to keep children as just that. children are, for wnat of a better expression, "hard wired" to NEED a mother and father. not about deserving it, but about thats the way we are made.

try building a "house" with all "female" or all "male" joints and see just how strong it is...

what, no adam and steve "joke"? hillsong is back up, i assume the site was down when you posted?

what you meant to say was "because you are of a certain sexual persuasion you deserve no rights, human or otherwise", right?

these books are not teaching sex ed, they just have characters with 2 dads or mums and don't go into specifics. this beat-up is nothing more than scum (politicians) catering to the homophobic, intolerant needs of the moronic aussie masses, which is a good enough reason for politicians to act. seeing how the next generation may become more tolerant of gays as a result of such books, politicians are only going to be left with drugs and migrants to blame for the downfall of society.

 

[life-a]

what, no adam and steve "joke"? hillsong is back up, i assume the site was down when you posted?

what you meant to say was "because you are of a certain sexual persuasion you deserve no rights, human or otherwise", right?

these books are not teaching sex ed, they just have characters with 2 dads or mums and don't go into specifics. this beat-up is nothing more than scum (politicians) catering to the homophobic, intolerant needs of the moronic aussie masses, which is a good enough reason for politicians to act. seeing how the next generation may become more tolerant of gays as a result of such books, politicians may have to resort to blaming drugs and migrants for the downfall of society.

no, the education doesnt go in to specifics... but children DO. out of natural curiosity. you can read of what i said the way you like. because i didnt say they deserve no rights. you can "twist" my words how you like. and if you had stopped to look, i said "all people", not just gays have responsibilities.

"acceptence" and "tolerance" are words that are bandied around a lot when it comes to people issues. race for example, we are told to tolerate, when we really should be "accepting" that we are differant and we can learn something from each other.

"tolerance" has more to do with behaviours than what you really are.

i dont think that anyone should have the "right" or any other lever that they feel that they may have to impress their sexuality upon them (children)

and no, i dont sttend any church, or affiliate myself with any religion. for the record. i used the "male/ female" analogy to simplify things for you.

what they should be doing is preventing gays from having children so this stuff doesnt HAVE to be explained at such an early age.

children have the right to have the chance of parents of 2 differant genders.
gays dont or cant give them that. so dont get in to the "gays can love their children just as much as hetero couples" null and void.

 

[endlesseulogy]

It's as simple as this :

Don't teach children about homosexuality - don't tell them to "get real".

Reality is a funny word.

Lets hide homosexuality away in the closet like they did in the middle ages and when certain children grow up and realise they are homosexual themselves they will go, "hang on a minute, why didnt they teach me about these feelings in school, am I normal?". This is where the whole process of stigma starts. In the class room in the formative years of education. The earlier you teach children real concepts in a structured manner, the more time they have to mould their individual personalities around these concepts. We have entered a new age of moral Conservatism that is set to divide under the vail of sheltering the minds of the young. "Abnormal" becomes "normal" when society accepts a certain way of thinking and all divisions are broken and shattered into peices.

 

[Benefit]

Seriously this thread has gone far enough. My firmly heterosexual tendencies are already starting to deconstruct themselves. I just bought a Michael Bolton CD.

 

[endlesseulogy]

^^ I think you are inadvertently asking for it!

 

[atom_boy]

homosexuality is another type of sexuality. kids dont need to know about sexuality until they at least hit ten years of age. bottom line, its the adultification of children that i dont like.

as far as family "structures" go, gays cant make a family naturally. do we need also to inform children of the politics surrounding gay life at that age, if at all as children ?

they should be busy learning mathematics and geography, not about the world of homosexuality, for godness sake.

gays, like all other people, need to realise that they dont have the RIGHT to ANYTHING, they have responsibilitys. rights just because you are of a certain sexual persuasion ? BULLSHIT.

you have the responsibility to keep children as just that. children are, for wnat of a better expression, "hard wired" to NEED a mother and father. not about deserving it, but about thats the way we are made.

try building a "house" with all "female" or all "male" joints and see just how strong it is...

wow, what an inspiring post. until now ive never understood what some people had against homosexuality but i know now. we pollute childrens pure minds with dirty, deviant questions about our unrighteous lifestyle. if anybody is looking for me ive decided to get back in the closet just in case anything i say or do shatters the innocense of small children.[/sarcasm]

dont kid yourself, your post is less about keeping children innocent and more about projecting your homophobic point of view with a porely constructed disguise. society is changing, some sections of it faster than others. nobody can deny that GLBT culture is constantly becomming more mainstream and consequently more visible. same sex couples displaying affection in public is no longer an uncommon sight as it was 20 years ago. and its only going to increase.

children are already noticing those 'two men on the train holding hands' or the 'two ladies having a family picnic with their daughter at the park'. to completely shield children from homosexuality would mean confining them to the perimeters of their homes. these books arent about teaching children the ins and outs of same sex intercourse or planting questions in their mind for them to spring upon unsuspecting parents later. remember we are talking about small children here, reading a 3 or 4 year old a story about a mummy, daddy and their baby doesnt lead to millions of questions about how heretosexuality and reproduction work. to steal someone elses phrase, these books are about showing children that families come in all shapes and sizes. its never to early to teach a child tolerance and will definately be useful later on when they do encounter the girl in their grade with two mummies.

life-a, as for questions from young children about how same sex couple have babies there are other options than getting into a full scale discussion of IVF and surrogacy. im sure you wont be giving your 6 year old a full blown description of male/female reproduction if they ask where they came from. similarly you dont need to give more information than is necessary. tell them something along the lines of sometimes mummies and daddies have a baby that they can keep so they give it to another couple who will love and care for it very much. the child gets a simple answer to their question, innocense intact.

gay and lesbian men and women arent seeking the right to things like marriage becase they are homosexual, we are seeking the same rights that all heterosexuals automatically qualify for. life-a you said "rights just because you are of a certain sexual persuasion ? BULLSHIT". before making such a narrow minded statement did you stop for a second to think about what rights you are automatically afforded just by being heterosexual?

 

[life-a]

It's as simple as this :

Don't teach children about homosexuality - don't tell them to "get real".

Reality is a funny word.

Lets hide homosexuality away in the closet like they did in the middle ages and when certain children grow up and realise they are homosexual themselves they will go, "hang on a minute, why didnt they teach me about these feelings in school, am I normal?". This is where the whole process of stigma starts. In the class room in the formative years of education. The earlier you teach children real concepts in a structured manner, the more time they have to mould their individual personalities around these concepts. We have entered a new age of moral Conservatism that is set to divide under the vail of sheltering the minds of the young. "Abnormal" becomes "normal" when society accepts a certain way of thinking and all divisions are broken and shattered into peices.

your not listening either... homosexuality isnt a "real concept", lets ALL become homosexual and see how long we last...

its not about being conservative. about "sheltering" children... maybe. dont you think that they should be "sheltered" ? there are some things children should NOT know about. sexuality is one of them. it should not have anything to do with "moulding "ones shape or personality.

when you equate sexuality with the person, you might as well have a hetero mardi gras as well. otherwise you are making a novelty out of of yourself.

there is no novelty in sexuality. and thats where they are making a joke out of themselves. THEY are. displaying your sexuality or equating it with pride is where it is going wrong. its something that should be held sacred, then people might start respecting them as people, not like some kind of sideshow...

 

[endlesseulogy]

Originally Posted by life-a
homosexuality is another type of sexuality. kids dont need to know about sexuality until they at least hit ten years of age. bottom line, its the adultification of children that i dont like.

as far as family "structures" go, gays cant make a family naturally. do we need also to inform children of the politics surrounding gay life at that age, if at all as children ?

they should be busy learning mathematics and geography, not about the world of homosexuality, for godness sake.

gays, like all other people, need to realise that they dont have the RIGHT to ANYTHING, they have responsibilitys. rights just because you are of a certain sexual persuasion ? BULLSHIT.

you have the responsibility to keep children as just that. children are, for wnat of a better expression, "hard wired" to NEED a mother and father. not about deserving it, but about thats the way we are made.

try building a "house" with all "female" or all "male" joints and see just how strong it is...

Hardwired for a mother and father?

In this day and age children get more influence from rightious overbearing teachers, McDonalds and TV then their parents.

I agree children are growing up too fast, but homosexuality has nothing to do with it. Homosexuality is just as "natural" as anything else. It's been a staple of the animal kingdom since the dawn of creation.

displaying your sexuality or equating it with pride is where it is going wrong. its something that should be held sacred, then people might start respecting them as people, not like some kind of sideshow...

Much respect to you for this statement. Very true.

I dont think learning about this concept will harm children. It's how it is taught that will be the decisive issue.

 

[atom_boy]

what they should be doing is preventing gays from having children so this stuff doesnt HAVE to be explained at such an early age.

children have the right to have the chance of parents of 2 differant genders.
gays dont or cant give them that. so dont get in to the "gays can love their children just as much as hetero couples" null and void.

perhaps all gay men and women should be neutered at birth (thats right, homosexuality isnt a choice) so we can just avoid the issue of homosexuals wanting to have children at all?

everybody has responsibilities, both to their children and to every other human being. children have the right to feel safe, be properly provided for and most of all loved. shall we have a look at the statistics for how many heterosexual parents violate these rights by verbal, physical and sexual abuse? what about neglect? your arguement that depriving a child of the right to a mother and a father automatically disualifies two people from having a child is bullshit. everyday heterosexuals deprive children of their rights and yet they can have them anywhere, anytime, anyway they want regardless of their situation. i think given the choice all children would rather have been disallowed their supposed 'right to a male and female parent' than their other rights.

i hope for societies sake that you never have children of your own to force your misguided opinions on.

 

[Chaos Butterfly]

This has got to be my pick for quote of the week

what they should be doing is preventing gays from having children so this stuff doesnt HAVE to be explained at such an early age.

*sigh*

 

[life-a]

wow, what an inspiring post. until now ive never understood what some people had against homosexuality but i know now. we pollute childrens pure minds with dirty, deviant questions about our unrighteous lifestyle. if anybody is looking for me ive decided to get back in the closet just in case anything i say or do shatters the innocense of small children.[/sarcasm]

dont kid yourself, your post is less about keeping children innocent and more about projecting your homophobic point of view with a porely constructed disguise. society is changing, some sections of it faster than others. nobody can deny that GLBT culture is constantly becomming more mainstream and consequently more visible. same sex couples displaying affection in public is no longer an uncommon sight as it was 20 years ago. and its only going to increase.

children are already noticing those 'two men on the train holding hands' or the 'two ladies having a family picnic with their daughter at the park'. to completely shield children from homosexuality would mean confining them to the perimeters of their homes. these books arent about teaching children the ins and outs of same sex intercourse or planting questions in their mind for them to spring upon unsuspecting parents later. remember we are talking about small children here, reading a 3 or 4 year old a story about a mummy, daddy and their baby doesnt lead to millions of questions about how heretosexuality and reproduction work. to steal someone elses phrase, these books are about showing children that families come in all shapes and sizes. its never to early to teach a child tolerance and will definately be useful later on when they do encounter the girl in their grade with two mummies.

life-a, as for questions from young children about how same sex couple have babies there are other options than getting into a full scale discussion of IVF and surrogacy. im sure you wont be giving your 6 year old a full blown description of male/female reproduction if they ask where they came from. similarly you dont need to give more information than is necessary. tell them something along the lines of sometimes mummies and daddies have a baby that they can keep so they give it to another couple who will love and care for it very much. the child gets a simple answer to their question, innocense intact.

gay and lesbian men and women arent seeking the right to things like marriage becase they are homosexual, we are seeking the same rights that all heterosexuals automatically qualify for. life-a you said "rights just because you are of a certain sexual persuasion ? BULLSHIT". before making such a narrow minded statement did you stop for a second to think about what rights you are automatically afforded just by being heterosexual?

o.k. mr defensive homo. this is how i would explain it to my children if they came across it. "they just happen to be 2 people of the same sex who love each other" nuff said.

they dont need it in the school curriculum.

and for the record, my gay freinds dont need to run down the street in gold lame pants annoucing their sexuality. THEY think that that makes a novelty out of there sexuality. THAT, they DONT like.

the rights i am afforded to me are that of that i can provide a 2 gender parentage to a child. THEY have the RIGHT to that. and its about the children here, not the selfishness of adults. as far as seeking rights, the homosexual community use their sexuality as a platform, so dont tell me to think about the rights that are afforded me. i dont use my sexuality as a platform for anything.

 

[life-a]

perhaps all gay men and women should be neutered at birth (thats right, homosexuality isnt a choice) so we can just avoid the issue of homosexuals wanting to have children at all?

everybody has responsibilities, both to their children and to every other human being. children have the right to feel safe, be properly provided for and most of all loved. shall we have a look at the statistics for how many heterosexual parents violate these rights by verbal, physical and sexual abuse? what about neglect? your arguement that depriving a child of the right to a mother and a father automatically disualifies two people from having a child is bullshit. everyday heterosexuals deprive children of their rights and yet they can have them anywhere, anytime, anyway they want regardless of their situation. i think given the choice all children would rather have been disallowed their supposed 'right to a male and female parent' than their other rights.

i hope for societies sake that you never have children of your own to force your misguided opinions on.

this misguided notion or platform (another one) that hetero coules abuse and fight too is bullshit. a flimsy argument at best. on which i wont waste any time.

 

[life-a]

This has got to be my pick for quote of the week



*sigh*

display it where you like.

 

[life-a]

[QUOTEi hope for societies sake that you never have children of your own to force your misguided opinions on.[/QUOTE]
who is to say that YOU arent misguided ? as for choices, i have the choice to be with a guy. i choose not to.