Captain.Heroin
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ROFL! I have thought about it.
It might have. How much were you taking?
Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010
- Thread starter Captain.Heroin
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ROFL! I have thought about it.
It might have. How much were you taking?
Thizzcobar
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Hey a friend of mine has been taking bupe without a script (getting it from her friends) on and off for a few months now and asked me this question: how long do you have to continually take suboxone before your body becomes dependent on it? I've been taking suboxone continuously for nearly a year and a half and have no idea what point your body starts to adapt and physically respond when it isn't taken. She started taking it after a few months of sobriety from her main addiction, OC and coke. Anyone have any idea?
EDIT: Also, I'm continually worried as to what's going to happen when I eventually stop taking suboxone. I'm sick of relying on it daily to get through my life. I've been on it for over 18 months, going from 4mg the first three months to 6mg until 6 months, and 8mg a day for the past year. I've talked to my psychiatrist and I'll probably be weening off it VERY slowly, most likely a milligram a day. After a three month 3 80 a day OC binge I was on suboxone for 2 weeks then weened down to 6 mg for three days, 4 mg for three days, 3 mg for three days, 2 mg for three days, then zero. I felt extremely shitty for about five days and had massive digestional / diarrhea during that time and for 7 days after that. Are the withdrawals worse based on how many opiates I was doing before I got on suboxone? Since I started taking suboxone again while I'd been sober for a few months will the suboxone withdrawals be less extreme? And now that I've taken it for nearly two years will the withdrawals pretty much have pinnacled, meaning if I take it for another ten years weening off will be just as big of a bitch as if I started doing it now? I've heard different things from different doctors and people. I'm a complete bitch when it comes to hangovers and any type of withdrawal and comedown, and I've heard suboxone withdrawal after taking it for as long as I have might last for months. Any feedback from someone who has taken suboxone as long or longer than I have and been weened off it, or anyone who knows what up, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
EDIT 2: One last thing: Can small amounts of vicodin be used to curb the Bupe withdrawals? I know an 8mg suboxone tablet is far stronger than a 5mg hydrocodone 500 mg acetaminophen Vicodin. If I were to take one or two Vicodin a day for anywhere from a week to a few weeks and then started to ween down off that, or perhaps take a small amount of suboxone for a few days after stopping that, could that possibly work?
EDIT: Also, I'm continually worried as to what's going to happen when I eventually stop taking suboxone. I'm sick of relying on it daily to get through my life. I've been on it for over 18 months, going from 4mg the first three months to 6mg until 6 months, and 8mg a day for the past year. I've talked to my psychiatrist and I'll probably be weening off it VERY slowly, most likely a milligram a day. After a three month 3 80 a day OC binge I was on suboxone for 2 weeks then weened down to 6 mg for three days, 4 mg for three days, 3 mg for three days, 2 mg for three days, then zero. I felt extremely shitty for about five days and had massive digestional / diarrhea during that time and for 7 days after that. Are the withdrawals worse based on how many opiates I was doing before I got on suboxone? Since I started taking suboxone again while I'd been sober for a few months will the suboxone withdrawals be less extreme? And now that I've taken it for nearly two years will the withdrawals pretty much have pinnacled, meaning if I take it for another ten years weening off will be just as big of a bitch as if I started doing it now? I've heard different things from different doctors and people. I'm a complete bitch when it comes to hangovers and any type of withdrawal and comedown, and I've heard suboxone withdrawal after taking it for as long as I have might last for months. Any feedback from someone who has taken suboxone as long or longer than I have and been weened off it, or anyone who knows what up, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
EDIT 2: One last thing: Can small amounts of vicodin be used to curb the Bupe withdrawals? I know an 8mg suboxone tablet is far stronger than a 5mg hydrocodone 500 mg acetaminophen Vicodin. If I were to take one or two Vicodin a day for anywhere from a week to a few weeks and then started to ween down off that, or perhaps take a small amount of suboxone for a few days after stopping that, could that possibly work?
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Pegasus
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To do this, wait until you are in withdrawal from the sub and then take the hydrocodone to make you feel better, and taper off with those... It wouldn't just work... It would work wonderfully if you followed the taper and did not get re-addicted to the hydrocodone!
Captain.Heroin
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Um...yeah I would guess your tolerance has dropped! That dose normally would kill people. If you've only taken buprenorphine for 2 and a half weeks, that's really a long time without full agonists at 10mg of fentanyl per shot.
I would assume your tolerance is at least 5 or 10 times lower, but really, I have no fentanyl experience, it might be even lower than that!
10mg of fentanyl IV would be like shooting a whole gram of morphine, or a quarter-to-half gram of pure/mostly-pure heroin.
I would really start at like... 1mg or lower. I don't think you'll need that much... I might be wrong, but there's no way to know for sure without starting low.
I really don't want you to OD by overestimating your tolerance. I would do 0.5mg or 1mg max. Your tolerance could even be lower than that!
So start slow and work your way back up, or save the fentanyl for a rainy day. I understand you're probably banking on using - I don't blame you. I would just urge you to start slowly because I never had a tolerance that large, it's definitely dropped down a lot I am sure!
It's not going to be as bad as full agonist addiction, but it's still not all that great, unless you taper off.
Yes, small amounts of vicodin could be used to curb the buprenorphine WD's, but that is counter productive. You should be able to taper with buprenorphine to the point where you can stop and, if needed, take other medications to help treat the symptoms of withdrawal.
Trigeminal
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How long until you can learn to use the search function?
Captain.Heroin
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Thread version 1.0
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phrozen said:What: Suboxone = buprenorphine/naloxone. Bupe is a partial agonist(mu) and antagonist(kappa). Bupe has higher mu affinity that most opiates, including some antagonists(naloxone, naltrexone). Its higher affinity allows you to shoot suboxone tablets. It also may cause precipitated withdrawals if you are dependant on other opiates. Also, its higher affinity blocks the affects of other opiates when taken in conjunction with bupe.
Dose: Depends on tolerance. 1-2mgs is a typical recreational dose for someone with no tolerance. If you're using bupe to taper off of another opiate, you should dose once you're experiencing wd's(typically 36-48 hrs. for most opiates). Start with 2-4mgs and dose at 2mg increments every 30-45minutes until a dose holds you. Most people take their full dose once a day.
Withdrawal: Typical physical and psychological symptoms associated with opiate withdrawal. Insomnia, chills, diarrhea, depression, anxiety, lacrimation, sweating, increased heart rate, etc. They are not as strong as a full agonist's symptoms, but may last longer. Physical symptoms last 1-2 weeks on average and psychological symptoms may last months.
As most opiates, it's recommended to taper down to the lowest dose possible before stopping. <1mg is ideal. The best way to dose at that level is to crush up a tablet and divide the powder into lower doses.
Ceiling: 24-32mgs
Bioavailability:jasoncrest said:
Other Notes:
- Bupe is CIII in the US.
- Metabolized by CYP3A4(see potentiation thread for potentiators).
- Half-life: 37 hours.
- Drug tests: Not detected by regular 5 panel tests.
- A interesting thread by 'medicine cabinet' about a new version of Suboxone that's currently being tested can be found here.
- Buprenorphine gets metabolized into norbuprenorphine and into conjugated buprenorphine and norbuprenorphine.
- Severe opiate withdrawal in a heroin user precipitated by a massive buprenorphine dose
- Clinical Guidelines for the Use of Buprenorphine in the Treatment of Opioid Addiction. -courtesy of thugpassion
Images:
Subutex
Suboxone
I couldn't find photos of Tamgesic, and Buprenex just comes in vials
Locate a doctor that prescribes Suboxone.
Suboxone Assistance Program - Free Suboxone for Low Income Patients
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Captain.Heroin
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Frequently Asked Questions
Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours, though it may certainly be less, or more than that. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.
Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait at the very least 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal.
Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.
Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full agonists, a few people do prefer it to full agonists (i.e. morphine).
Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can, but typically not by itself. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death, but typically wouldn't do so in a healthy individual, unless you combined other CNS depressants with buprenorphine, like benzodiazepines, alcohol, barbiturates, and other downers. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.
Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe (1-2mgs). Though some might be able to expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with, it is often only partially felt for many people. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects. It is better to wait until bupe is no longer effecting you, or to stick the course with bupe treatment.
Q: How come you can IV Suboxone? Isn't naloxone going to put you into withdrawal?
A: No, naloxone will not put you into withdrawal. If you are using heroin or a full agonist, and then use Suboxone, you will go into precipitated withdrawal if you don't wait for regular withdrawal first. If you are otherwise already on buprenorphine, IVing Suboxone will not put you into withdrawal. This is because buprenorphine has greater receptor affinity than naloxone does. There is no functional reason why naloxone is in Suboxone, and for all intensive purposes, Suboxone and Subutex are the same thing - both can be used with any route of administration.
Q: Is Suboxone safe to IV?
A: In essence, you should not shoot Suboxone. Unless you have enough patience and money to afford and use micron filters, Suboxone or Subutex, like any other pill, has risks when IVing. Missing a shot of Suboxone or Subutex may be more detrimental to your health, when compared to shooting out of a sterile ampule, or pure drugs in sterile water. Please read up on injection complications regarding pill based drugs, like Subutex, in the Case Studies thread. It is better, if you are truly intending on IVing buprenorphine (outside of the ampule version Buprenex), to read up on my Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ and then purchase the necessary supplies to help enable a safer shooting experience for yourself.
Q: How good is bupe as an analgesic? What are the pain-killing properties like in comparison to other opiates?
A: This may vary from individual to individual, but what I can say for the average person, you will probably find that it is about half as good feasibly speaking as an analgesic (pain-killing) medication, compared to an equipotent dose of heroin, morphine, oxycodone, and so on. I have talked to several people who are pain patients, and they have a general consensus that while full agonist opiates are much better in the pain killing department, buprenorphine does help considerably when taking off the edge in mild to somewhat moderate pain cases. For people with moderate to heavy or severe pain issues, buprenorphine can do but only so much.
Q: If I am a pain patient, can I utilize buprenorphine?
A: Yes, it is possible. It will be most likely you will combine a compatible drug, like tramadol with it. However if you are going to combine full agonist opiates like morphine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, heroin, and so on, you are probably going to want to take a dose of buprenorphine first, and then once the effects are going, you can use other full agonist opiates on top of buprenorphine. However, you can't take another dose of buprenorphine until the full agonists have left your system. This is why if you're already dependent on full agonist opiates, it's better not to use buprenorphine as well (as you may go into precipitated withdrawal). If you have mild to moderate pain at best, and it flares up sometimes but doesn't at others, then you may be able to combine both buprenorphine and a full agonist on the days you need to, and then on the days you don't, you can stick to strictly buprenorphine.
Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours, though it may certainly be less, or more than that. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.
Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait at the very least 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal.
Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.
Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full agonists, a few people do prefer it to full agonists (i.e. morphine).
Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can, but typically not by itself. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death, but typically wouldn't do so in a healthy individual, unless you combined other CNS depressants with buprenorphine, like benzodiazepines, alcohol, barbiturates, and other downers. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.
Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe (1-2mgs). Though some might be able to expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with, it is often only partially felt for many people. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects. It is better to wait until bupe is no longer effecting you, or to stick the course with bupe treatment.
Q: How come you can IV Suboxone? Isn't naloxone going to put you into withdrawal?
A: No, naloxone will not put you into withdrawal. If you are using heroin or a full agonist, and then use Suboxone, you will go into precipitated withdrawal if you don't wait for regular withdrawal first. If you are otherwise already on buprenorphine, IVing Suboxone will not put you into withdrawal. This is because buprenorphine has greater receptor affinity than naloxone does. There is no functional reason why naloxone is in Suboxone, and for all intensive purposes, Suboxone and Subutex are the same thing - both can be used with any route of administration.
Q: Is Suboxone safe to IV?
A: In essence, you should not shoot Suboxone. Unless you have enough patience and money to afford and use micron filters, Suboxone or Subutex, like any other pill, has risks when IVing. Missing a shot of Suboxone or Subutex may be more detrimental to your health, when compared to shooting out of a sterile ampule, or pure drugs in sterile water. Please read up on injection complications regarding pill based drugs, like Subutex, in the Case Studies thread. It is better, if you are truly intending on IVing buprenorphine (outside of the ampule version Buprenex), to read up on my Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ and then purchase the necessary supplies to help enable a safer shooting experience for yourself.
Q: How good is bupe as an analgesic? What are the pain-killing properties like in comparison to other opiates?
A: This may vary from individual to individual, but what I can say for the average person, you will probably find that it is about half as good feasibly speaking as an analgesic (pain-killing) medication, compared to an equipotent dose of heroin, morphine, oxycodone, and so on. I have talked to several people who are pain patients, and they have a general consensus that while full agonist opiates are much better in the pain killing department, buprenorphine does help considerably when taking off the edge in mild to somewhat moderate pain cases. For people with moderate to heavy or severe pain issues, buprenorphine can do but only so much.
Q: If I am a pain patient, can I utilize buprenorphine?
A: Yes, it is possible. It will be most likely you will combine a compatible drug, like tramadol with it. However if you are going to combine full agonist opiates like morphine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, heroin, and so on, you are probably going to want to take a dose of buprenorphine first, and then once the effects are going, you can use other full agonist opiates on top of buprenorphine. However, you can't take another dose of buprenorphine until the full agonists have left your system. This is why if you're already dependent on full agonist opiates, it's better not to use buprenorphine as well (as you may go into precipitated withdrawal). If you have mild to moderate pain at best, and it flares up sometimes but doesn't at others, then you may be able to combine both buprenorphine and a full agonist on the days you need to, and then on the days you don't, you can stick to strictly buprenorphine.
Captain.Heroin
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Suboxone Mega Thread Directory - Other links about buprenorphine in Other Drugs
Alcohol and Suboxone - Alcoholic Solutions for Higher BA With Sublingual Use**
Buprenex - should I IM or IV?
Buprenorphine and Antihistamine IV FAQ
Buprenorphine as a recreational drug?
Buprenorphine dosages commonly prescribed are unnecessarily high
Buprenorphine for depression?
Buprenorphine patches
Buprenorphine withdrawals?
Mephedrone and Buprenorphine
Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ - How to Micron Filter Suboxone
Nasal Administration of Suboxone - Issues
Rectal (Plugging) Buprenorphine
Suboxone in place of Naloxone in the event of an opiate overdose*
Subutex has gone generic
Tramadol and Suboxone
Discussion in the Suboxone mega thread goes along quite quickly, so we have a few other threads to promote intermediate/advanced discussion of buprenorphine and its formulations. These threads are meant to divert some of the more advanced discussion that otherwise becomes buried in the mega thread.
If there's another link you think which would go well in this list of related buprenorphine threads, please let me know. We're trying to reserve extra threads on buprenorphine for more intermediary/advanced discussion mostly to reserve the mega thread for a place for questions that can be answered quickly, and the other threads for a place for questions which will otherwise not get the same discussion going on in the mega thread, due to its quick pace.
If you have an idea for a new thread on buprenorphine, it's probably best to figure out by talking to a moderator first to see if it's thread worthy or should be discussed in the mega thread.
*Not Advised. Opiate antagonists are the only safe thing to do in case of an opiate overdose. Please do not give people Suboxone if they have overdosed.
**also known as "6/7's method" or "SixPartSeven's method"
Alcohol and Suboxone - Alcoholic Solutions for Higher BA With Sublingual Use**
Buprenex - should I IM or IV?
Buprenorphine and Antihistamine IV FAQ
Buprenorphine as a recreational drug?
Buprenorphine dosages commonly prescribed are unnecessarily high
Buprenorphine for depression?
Buprenorphine patches
Buprenorphine withdrawals?
Mephedrone and Buprenorphine
Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ - How to Micron Filter Suboxone
Nasal Administration of Suboxone - Issues
Rectal (Plugging) Buprenorphine
Suboxone in place of Naloxone in the event of an opiate overdose*
Subutex has gone generic
Tramadol and Suboxone
Discussion in the Suboxone mega thread goes along quite quickly, so we have a few other threads to promote intermediate/advanced discussion of buprenorphine and its formulations. These threads are meant to divert some of the more advanced discussion that otherwise becomes buried in the mega thread.
If there's another link you think which would go well in this list of related buprenorphine threads, please let me know. We're trying to reserve extra threads on buprenorphine for more intermediary/advanced discussion mostly to reserve the mega thread for a place for questions that can be answered quickly, and the other threads for a place for questions which will otherwise not get the same discussion going on in the mega thread, due to its quick pace.
If you have an idea for a new thread on buprenorphine, it's probably best to figure out by talking to a moderator first to see if it's thread worthy or should be discussed in the mega thread.
*Not Advised. Opiate antagonists are the only safe thing to do in case of an opiate overdose. Please do not give people Suboxone if they have overdosed.
**also known as "6/7's method" or "SixPartSeven's method"
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Captain.Heroin
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Welcome to v7.0!
Welcome to the new Suboxone Mega Thread!
I'll take this opportunity to quote what I typed in the beginning of the Suboxone Mega Thread v6.0.
For v7.0, I'd really like feedback on the first three posts of the thread. Is it informative? Does it begin to answer your question, or at least present a sub-thread you could bring up your discussion/ideas/questions in?
I've tried to incorporate all Suboxone related posts, or at least posts that may involve a specific discussion relating to Suboxone, or other formulations including buprenorphine. Does the Suboxone Mega Thread Directory work well for you? If there's any Suboxone/buprenorphine threads that should be added, don't hesitate to draw our attention to it.
Any positive feedback would be welcome. %)
Welcome to the new Suboxone Mega Thread!
I'll take this opportunity to quote what I typed in the beginning of the Suboxone Mega Thread v6.0.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=488232&p=8068014
We've tried to clean up this thread so that it's the most informative it can possibly be. If you think of vital information to add to the first post, or any other frequently asked questions that would fit well in the second post, please volunteer ideas here. title your questions as "ideas for the FAQ" or "ideas for the first post" so that a moderator, like but not limited to myself, can see that you all have ideas to expand upon this thread.
The idea behind making this more informational, is so that we don't have to merge all your Suboxone/buprenorphine questions into here. In fact, we're more likely than not going to quote the mega thread (if you post a question that has been answered in the FAQ) and then close the thread, so as to keep the mega thread open for more advanced discussions, and for people to expand upon the FAQ's if the answer is not fully explanatory or easily comprehended.
This way, we can have a more on topic, more productive, less repetitive mega thread for everyone.
For v7.0, I'd really like feedback on the first three posts of the thread. Is it informative? Does it begin to answer your question, or at least present a sub-thread you could bring up your discussion/ideas/questions in?
I've tried to incorporate all Suboxone related posts, or at least posts that may involve a specific discussion relating to Suboxone, or other formulations including buprenorphine. Does the Suboxone Mega Thread Directory work well for you? If there's any Suboxone/buprenorphine threads that should be added, don't hesitate to draw our attention to it.
Any positive feedback would be welcome. %)
Captain.Heroin
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Version 8.0... Coming to a thread near you!
I want to let you guys know that I'll be opening the new version of this thread, 8.0, later on when we finish this one off.
If you all have any ideas/comments, please don't hesitate to post them in this thread.
User feedback can be a really great way to know what changes to make, so please take your time to give us a few ideas and thank you in advance for helping us out!
I want to let you guys know that I'll be opening the new version of this thread, 8.0, later on when we finish this one off.
If you all have any ideas/comments, please don't hesitate to post them in this thread.
User feedback can be a really great way to know what changes to make, so please take your time to give us a few ideas and thank you in advance for helping us out!
Last edited:
Znegative
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to Ashley26,
just want to share my experience, I'm not sure how many pills you have, but I once waited 72 hours and took like, about 20 mg of hydrocodone and got a half buzz. I started to get all nice and warm and then it just sort of stopped. Everyone's different, so it might take effect after 36 hours, but just wanted to share so you wouldn't waste those.
just want to share my experience, I'm not sure how many pills you have, but I once waited 72 hours and took like, about 20 mg of hydrocodone and got a half buzz. I started to get all nice and warm and then it just sort of stopped. Everyone's different, so it might take effect after 36 hours, but just wanted to share so you wouldn't waste those.
Znegative
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Oh, and I have a question..
when I I.V. subs, I dont get any rush, and it takes just as long for it to hit me as it does when I snort it (maybe a few minutes less). Is this true with all buprenorphine? I've heard that the bupe has a higher affinity than the naloxone, so I'm guessing it would be the same with subutex or buprenex?
when I I.V. subs, I dont get any rush, and it takes just as long for it to hit me as it does when I snort it (maybe a few minutes less). Is this true with all buprenorphine? I've heard that the bupe has a higher affinity than the naloxone, so I'm guessing it would be the same with subutex or buprenex?
Captain.Heroin
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It always takes buprenorphine a few minutes to kick in. I have used Subutex and Suboxone at similar doses, and it always took a few minutes to kick in. I get a rush with it too.
Captain.Heroin
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I hear a lot of people don't get the rush, I think it's related to tolerance, sensitivity, dose, and how long it's been since you've used full agonists.
I only started getting a rush from IV doses when I was tapering down and hadn't used heroin in many months.
Other people report never getting a rush.
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