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Serious question on the psychological effects of 5-MEO-DMT and N,N-DMT

JungleBeatz

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 26, 2001
Messages
413
Hello Bluelight. First of all, sorry for the wall of text. I have a question about the psychological effects of DMT and their consequences. Now I know this topic might better be suited for a trained psychiatrist but I figured it wouldn't hurt if I got the opinions of some veteran psycho-naughts first.

Anyways, when I was younger (and stupid), my friends and I started experimenting with psychedelic drugs. After quite a few psilocybin and LSD trips we moved onto 5-MEO-DMT which you could order online back then. We did not have a good scale to weigh doses on so we eyeballed it the best we could. One of my friends could not get the desired effect from the drug so he measured out, what I considered, an ungodly amount, and it has affected him ever since. After the incident, he became extremely paranoid and very socially anxious. Now, as you can probably tell by my join date when I first started becoming interested in psychedelic drugs, almost 10 years have passed since this happened. We are still friends but I can tell this experience changed his life for the worse and I feel partly to blame because I am the one who provided it for him.

Describing the experience from my perspective is quite easy. He was calm at first just sitting on a chair, but all the sudden he started convulsing and trying to run around the room. He actually at one point got down on the floor and started, what looked like to me, break dancing. (I'm dead serious, this is not a troll post). We tried to constrain him, but it just made him yell very loud, so we let him do it, knocking over lamps and vases in the process. This lasted maybe 30 minutes.

From what he told me of his experience, he said he was in pitch black darkness and could see nothing. He felt like all the atoms in his body were one-by-one bursting out of him and his body was being blown apart. After this happened he said he was just his consciousness alone in a dark part of space and voices were calling him to come to them. He felt like hooded figures were watching him and trying to call him over to their existence. Or something to that effect. He said this felt like 8+ hours.

So the real question here is this. I recently synthesized some N,N-DMT because I've had the desire to try it for a long time and I am in the middle of a science education and wanted to get a different angle on some of existence's unanswered questions. My friend in question also wants to try it, I guess to face his fear perhaps, and maybe undo some of the psychological effects 5-MEO-DMT had on him. Would this be wise or would he just be better off seeing a psychiatrist?

EDIT: I forgot to mention the dose of 5-MEO-DMT was insufflated.
 
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StingRei

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
98
Wow I've never heard of people suffering such serious trauma that it causes PTSD.

But if he took an insane amount and was transported to a frightening world, I guess that says it all about why kids shouldn't be playing with these types of substances.

As far as whether DMT will help, I don't think ANYONE would be able to tell you FOR SURE. We can only guess that it might achieve the desired therapeutic effect.

I would personally look into other drugs that are known to uplift everyone, such as MDMA/Psilocybin/Psilacetin(4-AcO-DMT), admitted in small doses.
 

Listening

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
679
There is no doubt in my mind that psychedelic drugs can have lasting negative effects. I've read about / talked to several people who have had such experiences. Usually this starts with doing something stupid like the large amount of 5-meo-dmt which your friend took, but some people seem to be psychologically prone to issues. In addition, 5-meo-dmt in particular seems to be potentially dangerous at higher dosages - I've heard several horror stories. (Coincidentally, I've just acquired some for the first time and am excited to try, but will certainly be careful not to push the dosage!)

As for trying some n,n-DMT to reverse the problem... I don't think anyone can know the answer to that, and it seems like a needlessly risky thing to do. I'd sooner suggest daily meditation combined with going to see a psychologist that he can work these things through with in due time.

Good luck!
 

Coolio

Greenlighter
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
6,948
I doubt it would even be a bad idea for him to try 5-MeO-DMT again, at a normal dose. The effects of these two drugs are similarly powerful, but I don't think you can 'undo' anything from one using the other. They're very different and not opposite OR complementary.
 

greenmeanies

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
1,617
the point is, he should have seen a psychiatrist within weeks of his traumatic episode.

if you find a doc who is open-minded about psychedelics, your friend might be able to talk frankly about what kinds of scary things he was confronted with in his hellish trip. or you could just go to any old psych and tell the story like it was a bad nightmare.

SET, SETTING, DOSE! know your body, know your drug!

i certainly hope you do not think you are qualified to "treat" his condition with more drugs until you become VERY experienced with them. read up on traditional use of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, consider the ritual context and the lengthy preparation of body and mind that shamans go through before they ingest the drug.

in traditional shamanic medicine, usually the healer will take the drug while the patient will be induced into a trance via meditation and breathing exercises. contrast to our western model of medicine where the patient takes the drug and there is little to no actual one-on-one communication and healing.

your friend needs someone to talk to with whom he can really open up and get some emotions off his chest. it's not a quick and easy process, and he will NEED TO BE STRONG in order to succeed. gather as many close friends as spirit guides for him, and make sure he knows that you all trust each other like brothers before you attempt to perform any kind of emotional healing.

good luck!
 

JungleBeatz

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 26, 2001
Messages
413
Thanks for the replies guys. I'll take a lot of your advise into consideration. Remember it is not me who is suggesting this, but it is him that wants to try it to see if he can overcome whatever is afflicting him. I do think the best thing is to actually try and just talk with him first about his first experience and maybe find an underlying issue, though it is hard to do since we both are hard pressed to talk about our emotions.

And yes, I did mean extract. Sorry for the typo. ;)
 

arthunter888

Bluelighter
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
623
I don't think you can accurately pair up 5-meo-dmt with any other tryptamine. It just seems to be the salvia of tryptamines, so to speak. Have not tried it, but have mostly read negative things about it.

First of all, it is very hard to dose accurately, because 10-20mgs of it is considered a strong dose by erowid. Most likely 30-40 would be horrifying. Second, it tends to be visually empty. I think we can agree that being suddenly thrusted into a pitch black never-world would be more alarming than into a world of vibrant color. Also, I've read it has quite an unpleasant body aspect.

I think it would be therapeutic for your friend to do a light dose of N,N-DMT, maybe slowly progressing from that. They are different enough to ensure a less scrambling trip, but similar enough to provide him with closure from the bad trip way back.
 
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fryingsquirrel

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
2,806
5meo fucked me up pretty bad, although I shouldn't be surprised, I was smoking it like crack one night. I wasn't right for about two weeks, paranoid and scared shitless of doing any psychedelic. So anyway I got offered a low dose of mushrooms (gram or a little more) for free and not wanting to look like I was scared I took it. And what do you know, I was pretty much back to myself after that. I'm not sure it will have the same affect for your friend, we're talking about different drugs and way more time has passed. But for me it was just a case of facing my fear. IDK, take it for what it's worth. I don't have any real memory of the 5meo experience BTW, just coming to covered in puke.
 

Dr Mamba

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
198
Location
France, so sorry for my bad english :/
I don't think you can accurately pair up 5-meo-dmt with any other tryptamine. It just seems to be the salvia of tryptamines, so to speak. Have not tried it, but have mostly read negative things about it.

First of all, it is very hard to dose accurately, because 10-20mgs of it is considered a strong dose by erowid. Most likely 30-40 would be horrifying. Second, it tends not to be visually empty. I think we can agree that being suddenly thrusted into a pitch black never-world would be more alarming than into a world of vibrant color. Also, I've read it has quite an unpleasant body aspect.

I think it would be therapeutic for your friend to do a light dose of N,N-DMT, maybe slowly progressing from that. They are different enough to ensure a less scrambling trip, but similar enough to provide him with closure from the bad trip way back.
Agree, 5meoDMT is one of the most nasty stuff around, i honestly think it can drive you crazy (never saw the faces of indians yoppo addicts on youtube ?).

DMT is a fare cleaner stuff, i dont think it can hurt your brain.

I dont understand how people can do 5meo DMT, if you want to explore this sort of stuff (who is interesting indeed), give a look to 5meo MIPT, its very close to 5meoDMT but fare more managable.
 

CatfishRivers

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jan 26, 2004
Messages
2,180
5MeO-DMT works fantastic for me. I experienced the whole psychedelic frying pan over the head thing early on, but once I learned that I was fine through all that, I learned to love the ride. I feel like 5MeO-DMT really has a lot of merit for sorting out issues in your head. It has always really helped me cut straight to the heart of things. In low doses I find it to have a great body buzz and it combines amazingly with an maoi. Maybe it is more akin to a salvia type experience for most, but I know plenty of people who love salvia...to each his own I guess.
 

alantis360

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Messages
1,509
I have had a really traumatic trip before and was scared to do it again, but i had no problem after i finally did , kind of feel like it helped out too.
 
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