religion - your thoughts
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onetwothreefour
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mr. horse: sure. i understood 
i do realise that i probably need to be a little more tolerant of "religion", but it's the point that muzby brought up -rather facetiously- that gets me upset. most religions, with all their preaching about tolerance, well-being and kindness-to-thy-neighbour (yes i'm obviously referring mainly to christianity, but that is reality in an essentially anglo-saxon country), the actions and "morality" of said religions seems to be entirely out of whack.
i don't HATE religion, and i don't even have a lack of respect for religious people; what i do disrespect is hypocritical people who hide behind the veil of their religion in order to subjugate and discriminate against others, and it happens far too much.
i do realise that i probably need to be a little more tolerant of "religion", but it's the point that muzby brought up -rather facetiously- that gets me upset. most religions, with all their preaching about tolerance, well-being and kindness-to-thy-neighbour (yes i'm obviously referring mainly to christianity, but that is reality in an essentially anglo-saxon country), the actions and "morality" of said religions seems to be entirely out of whack.
i don't HATE religion, and i don't even have a lack of respect for religious people; what i do disrespect is hypocritical people who hide behind the veil of their religion in order to subjugate and discriminate against others, and it happens far too much.
Mr. Horse
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onetwothreefour said:
Of course, but is that the religion's fault, or the fault of the person?
All religions have the same philosphy, and that is kindness and compassion to others. Unfortunately, this gets skewed by fundimentalist thinking, and intolerance.
haste
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Religion is merely the collection of people with similiar beliefs and outlooks to life, that come for support and lean on each other.... very much like bluelight
If you look deep down you'll notice that in anything we do, we has human's have an instinctal urge to belong.... whether it be to a religion, a sporting group, a car club, a parenting club, a messageboard, a particular social group.. whatever.... we all need to belong.
There is nothing "wrong" with religion, it most cases its intention is for good - its us human's that corrupt it, like we corrupt many things in this world for our own selfish benefits.
If you look deep down you'll notice that in anything we do, we has human's have an instinctal urge to belong.... whether it be to a religion, a sporting group, a car club, a parenting club, a messageboard, a particular social group.. whatever.... we all need to belong.
There is nothing "wrong" with religion, it most cases its intention is for good - its us human's that corrupt it, like we corrupt many things in this world for our own selfish benefits.
Pop Popavich
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I was raised as a catholic, and my parents were always heavily involved in the church as well as a religious community group.
I've seen religion, or at least the solid belief in 'something' do some amazing things for people. I've seen it give people strength to overcome incredible obstacles in their lives, and accomplish seemingly impossible tasks. I believe it has brought peace to a great many people who would otherwise have been lost in this world.
On the other hand, I also saw people shunned from these groups for various reasons, which stemmed from peoples "holier than though" attitudes. And I have seen this destroy peoples lives.
I've spent a lot of time studying various religions for my own interest. I don't follow any religion myself, but I think that most religions provide a positive guide for how you should live your life. It's when people take the teachings of a religion and interpret it to suit or justify their own selfish, arrogant or bigotted ways that we run into problems.
I've seen religion, or at least the solid belief in 'something' do some amazing things for people. I've seen it give people strength to overcome incredible obstacles in their lives, and accomplish seemingly impossible tasks. I believe it has brought peace to a great many people who would otherwise have been lost in this world.
On the other hand, I also saw people shunned from these groups for various reasons, which stemmed from peoples "holier than though" attitudes. And I have seen this destroy peoples lives.
I've spent a lot of time studying various religions for my own interest. I don't follow any religion myself, but I think that most religions provide a positive guide for how you should live your life. It's when people take the teachings of a religion and interpret it to suit or justify their own selfish, arrogant or bigotted ways that we run into problems.
ayjay
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I was raised as a lassez-faire christian. Eventually (I think around 12-13) I became an atheist - for a variety of reasons. That has not changed since.
However, being a rational determinist has not blinded me to the real benefits of some religious practices - specifically, mystical tradition. Most western religion has had the mystical aspects expunged - too threatening to religious authority! All that's left is group singing - luckily that is very fucking powerful. I have been in a couple of choirs over the years just to experience this mighty rush :D
Of course, psychedelic drugs have a strong history of ritual and religious use - yum yum!
And dancing for extended periods certainly has religious precedents - wheee!
I think that religions serve a number of important social functions in various cultures, so if you want to fuck them off, you have to replace them with other things that serve the same functions (adaptive behaviour) or be ready for some instability (not necessarily a bad thing)
BUT in addition, there is something indescribable within the religious experience - the numinous; the OMFG moment - that I think is a basic human drive - probably related to the drive to become intoxicated. Religion is where I go to learn the tricks that will take me there - because these tricks work, not because I think the explanation for them is true.
My 2c
However, being a rational determinist has not blinded me to the real benefits of some religious practices - specifically, mystical tradition. Most western religion has had the mystical aspects expunged - too threatening to religious authority! All that's left is group singing - luckily that is very fucking powerful. I have been in a couple of choirs over the years just to experience this mighty rush :D
Of course, psychedelic drugs have a strong history of ritual and religious use - yum yum!
And dancing for extended periods certainly has religious precedents - wheee!
I think that religions serve a number of important social functions in various cultures, so if you want to fuck them off, you have to replace them with other things that serve the same functions (adaptive behaviour) or be ready for some instability (not necessarily a bad thing)
BUT in addition, there is something indescribable within the religious experience - the numinous; the OMFG moment - that I think is a basic human drive - probably related to the drive to become intoxicated. Religion is where I go to learn the tricks that will take me there - because these tricks work, not because I think the explanation for them is true.
My 2c
eloise
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jay, can i just say that the critique of the commandments was obviously written by someone with absolutely no understanding of what they mean.
if your life is in danger on shabbat you're damn well allowed to put out the fucking fire. life comes before absolutely everything.
as for taking the name in vain.. well it's a lot more than just saying 'jesus!' when you bump into something.
do not lie- see my comments for the sabbath rule.
etc etc etc...
besides, saying 'oh but for some religions you can't do that' well no shit, the commandments are from the HEBREW BIBLE- they're the guidelines for those who want to live accordingly, not for someone who wants to worship a sun god.
whoever wrote that stuff is a self-righteous wanker.
(oh, but i know you're just quoting bubeleh! much love)
if your life is in danger on shabbat you're damn well allowed to put out the fucking fire. life comes before absolutely everything.
as for taking the name in vain.. well it's a lot more than just saying 'jesus!' when you bump into something.
do not lie- see my comments for the sabbath rule.
etc etc etc...
besides, saying 'oh but for some religions you can't do that' well no shit, the commandments are from the HEBREW BIBLE- they're the guidelines for those who want to live accordingly, not for someone who wants to worship a sun god.
whoever wrote that stuff is a self-righteous wanker.
(oh, but i know you're just quoting bubeleh! much love)
eloise
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ooh, the 11th commandment... i like it
(although i'm probably damned for life now)
it's astounding how many people like to make themselves sound cool by saying 'religion is shit' or similar, without actually going into more detail so justify themselves.
lately i've been loosely following conservative judaism.
i don't believe people are naturally born knowing 'right and wrong'- because there could never truly be a universal understanding of this. even though the torah has a lot of truly bizarre stuff in it, i agree with the basics, ie acting in a way which denotes respect for others.
(for the record though, i don't think homosexuality is an abomination, menstruating women are ritually impure etc.. the complexities found within orthodoxy aren't for me)
(although i'm probably damned for life now)
it's astounding how many people like to make themselves sound cool by saying 'religion is shit' or similar, without actually going into more detail so justify themselves.
lately i've been loosely following conservative judaism.
i don't believe people are naturally born knowing 'right and wrong'- because there could never truly be a universal understanding of this. even though the torah has a lot of truly bizarre stuff in it, i agree with the basics, ie acting in a way which denotes respect for others.
(for the record though, i don't think homosexuality is an abomination, menstruating women are ritually impure etc.. the complexities found within orthodoxy aren't for me)
onetwothreefour
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Originally posted by eloise
it's astounding how many people like to make themselves sound cool by saying 'religion is shit' or similar, without actually going into more detail so justify themselves.
it's astounding how many people like to make themselves sound cool by saying 'religion is shit' or similar, without actually going into more detail so justify themselves.
really?
i don't think there are too many of those people posting in this thread - the majority of anti-religion arguments seem to at least have a little justification behind them.
i understand your point (same as after the 2000 u.s. election it was "cool" to take part in george bush-bashing - even though there was still plenty of valid reason to actually have distaste for him), and i don't disagree that it doesn't occur a helluva lot.
but i think, aside from my one rather aggravated post, this thread has been relatively free from what you're saying.
onetwothreefour
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well, i guess i agree then
Barney Gumnut
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lostpunk5545
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100 percent atheist.
And if god did exist, I'd be all like "Bring it bitch, we have some issues to sort out", Kapow! Bam! Smash!
And if god did exist, I'd be all like "Bring it bitch, we have some issues to sort out", Kapow! Bam! Smash!
preacha
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the people i know that despise religion are the ones that had it forced upon them
my point of view is that religion is there in order to force an opinion onto mass collections of people.
in early society, it was used as a form of law. "dont steal or fuck your neighbour's wife, or the big man in the clouds will bring the pain"
as time went on, it was used to explain what science couldnt. the universe, the formation of organisms, etc etc. however, as science continually progressed, religion has become less and less relevant.
basically, i believe people use religion as a crutch, to fill in the little holes within them. other people use actual knowledge (god forbid such a thing :D )
i dont believe in a god, i just believe in myself and my abilities that get me through life.
my point of view is that religion is there in order to force an opinion onto mass collections of people.
in early society, it was used as a form of law. "dont steal or fuck your neighbour's wife, or the big man in the clouds will bring the pain"
as time went on, it was used to explain what science couldnt. the universe, the formation of organisms, etc etc. however, as science continually progressed, religion has become less and less relevant.
basically, i believe people use religion as a crutch, to fill in the little holes within them. other people use actual knowledge (god forbid such a thing :D )
i dont believe in a god, i just believe in myself and my abilities that get me through life.
