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RCs New cannabinoid, MMB-CHMINACA

roi

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Sep 2, 2013
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Yet another new cannabinoid appeared!



IUPAC: (2S)-methyl-2-(1-(cyclohexylmethyl)-1 H-indol-3-ylcarbonylamino)-3,3-dimethylbutanoate

Expectations and experiences welcome :)

edit: This substance is actually MDMB-CHMICA, and sold under this misleading name. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMB-CHMICA.

Warning:
Might be responsible for a few thousand hospitalisations lately, see

http://www.cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=41887

http://www.adph.org/news/assets/150511.pdf

At least I guess it's ADB-CHMINACA or this one (MDMB-CHMICA, "MMB-CHMINACA").
 
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Professer

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Basically copying my post from this other new 'noid thread he posted because im interested in some good ones again.

Sorry to not be totally on topic? But are they finding any decent body-high/pain relief cannabinoids without nasty side effects now? I remember highschoolers getting physical withdrawal from 'Bizarro' that half of them were admittedly addicted to. I had to coach two different individuals through an overdose of 1-2 hits of the stuff they had there. Ugly stuff. JWH-018 was a bit cool to have back in the day, anything decent out or in the works?

I hope this one is cool.
 

dancurtis1010

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May 8, 2014
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VERY POTENT!
Just had 3gs delivered - mixed 1g with 30g marshmallow leaf and its more potent than any previous cannabinois - approx 2 or 3 times by my experiments.

Similar to thj 2201 and 018 in effects - but 3x as potent. For tolerance comparison, I usually mix 4gs of 2201 or PB 22 with 25gs of marshmallow leaf.

3gs will make approx 4 ounces of blend. For me that is.
 

roi

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^Any plans on dosing volumetric, to avoid hotspots and know exactly how much you're taking?
 
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dancurtis1010

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Yes, 50ml acetone mix, thoroughly dissolved.

Added 10ml at a time to the material, on a glass plate, left to dry.

Ground up several times during drying.

Never any hotspots, as long as its ground up multiple times.

The dose is approx 2-3 MG's for my tolerance - I use approx 5-10mgs pb22 or akb48.

Sorry for the poor post - the key point is the 3x potency warning.
 

trip407

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How does it compare to Ab-Fubinaca? It is still legal in my country and its the only cannabinoid i liked so far ( never tried JWHs though).
 

dancurtis1010

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I'm not a fan of FUB, too large dose required. mMB seems more sedating than most, I keep falling asleep unintentionally. Its very body high orientated by my opinion.
 

Jesusgreen

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Be careful with this one folks. The 4F analogue of the indazole version of this drug has supposedly killed 25 people and hospitalised 700 in Russia (unless the report is misleading and referring to all cannabinoid spice brands as a whole)

Here's the article: http://rt.com/news/193700-russia-spice-deadly-drug/ (the article clearly has some bad reporting, but the point about the potential dangers is very real)

"MDMB /N/-Bz F" refers to 4F-MDMB-CHMINACA.

See this comparison picture that shows the structures of all the CHMINACA compounds, all of which are extremely potent and can be dangerous to a user with low cannabinoid tolerance:
http://i.imgur.com/qcIUY1c.png

I imagine this is due to the potency. Remember folks that while no-one's going to die from smoking too much weed that's due to the sheer amount of plant matter one would have to smoke, these cannabinoids can be put in a blend at such concentrations that one can easily go over the seizure threshold and end up in hospital or in an early grave if a mistake is made in the making of the blend or the dosing.

Along with seizures, at least THC appears to be a positive allosteric modulator for mu-opioid receptors, only to a small extent so no-one is going to be getting an opioid type overdose from weed - but with these cannabinoids that are so many times more potent it wouldn't surprise me if they exerted effects akin to actual opioids and were able to cause significant CNS depression, knock users out, and potentially be lethal at higher doses via this mechanism as well as via the aforementioned seizures. This is just speculation but we already know that these compounds are certainly very risky and extreme care is required, along with quite a bit of a tolerance in my opinion.

Even safety issues aside, both the 4F and this compound appear to be extremely potent, active in the low microgram range with dosages similar to LSD from the only information I can dig up - making them several times more potent than PB-22.

PB-22 for reference is so potent that after placing 500ug in my pipe, then deciding that might be too much, removing the 500ug as best I could so only trace residue was left, and later smoking tobacco in it resulted in me having an intense 6 hour cannabinoid "trip" with visuals and both intense euphoria but also intense dysphoria, anxiety, tremors and such. So with no tolerance PB-22 requires dosages of maybe 0.1-0.2mg for strong effects, that means these two could require dosages as small as 50ug or less for a non-tolerant individual.. Just think about that for a second. While I'm a fan of synthetic cannabinoids some of these are just being made too potent to be sold to the average person on the street, it's like passing off NBOMes as LSD, a lot of people are going to get hurt. :(

This PB-22 experience I mentioned was with 0 tolerance, so a regular cannabinoid user will have better luck with these, but remember these are several times more potent than PB-22 so please if you're in your right mind don't go near these super potent ones if you have a low tolerance. Stick to the easier to dose cannabinoids like AKB-48, 5F-AKB-48, AM-2201, AM-694, JWH-081 and such, and please avoid headshop blends containing these where you don't know the dosage or if they have been made correctly - hotspots in a blend could very well be a much more serious affair than a simple "too strong high" with these.

If you're a daily cannabinoid smoker with a sky high tolerance these might just be the substances for you, but even if you are you need to be volumetrically measuring these and ensuring that your doses are spot on, be careful guys please <3 even cannabinoids can be dangerous.
 
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Screaming_Skull

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Yeah, I had a connect for blends for a secondabout 6 months ago and would smoke them since I'm on Subs and, well drug test and everything...But I must say, when i was really smoking blends when they first came out that had JWH-18, 73(the blend was called "Matrix") these new ones are just POTENT AS FUCK. All it takes is ONE hit and your high, these hospitalizations I'm guesing are people just rolling up a joint and going at it, which is just asking for trouble. There was one other blend called Head Trip I smoked when they were still being sold in gas stations, which was like the Chronic of blends. It wasn't JWH in it as the high from it lasted a few hours like regular weed, and felt way more similar to regular weed(made me sleepy, gave the munchies,and lasted longer than the JWH series). But anyway, I would totally take a hit or two of Head Trip right now. Wanna say what was in it started with an A.
 

tacodude

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JG good job with the informative post.

This is just a dangerous compound because of its potency and effect as JG said. Not many people have a .001 mg scale, but the same is true for a MG scale and anything less is not ok. A huge problem could be people weighing out 1 gram on a 0.01 mg scale, which could lead do many extra doses if it is a active in the microgram dosage.

Stay safe people and hopefully one day real weed will be available.
 

Transform

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Just to point out that the analogue which is causing problems in russia is actually quite a distant relative of this one, having a fluorobenzyl moiety on the indazole. Caution is still highly warranted with these compounds but I would not be surprised if this was more than a simple potency issue that the russians are struggling with.

 

Jesusgreen

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^ Sorry my mistake you're right there. My mistake. "MDDB N-BZ-F" is actually 4F-MDMB-CHMINACA, the confusion laid in the fact that I missed the indazole and saw a hydroxy in roi's image of MDMB-CHMINACA when it actually has a methoxy group.

For comparison:



A certain vendor forgot to add the methyl ester part to their picture of the structure that's why in roi's other thread he has an image missing the methoxy group and with a hydroxy instead, so that's what got me confused, I just checked and drew out the correct structure though so these are the 3 chems in question.

Sorry for the initial mistake :p

Hope my rather sexy comparison picture makes up for it ;) <3

Be careful with *all* of these, I don't know about all of them but I know most are much more potent than most other cannabinoids available today, so there's some severe risks if you don't have a tolerance. Even if you have one you better be damn careful and if you're the type who eyeballs cannabinoids don't even dream of ordering any of these. -_-
 
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Inaphyt

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About to order some and i have no scales and don't care, the worst i've ever been on cannibinoids is projectile vomitting, i don't think ug scales are necessary at all just be smart with your substance chuck a few specs in a cig to start off and i do mean literally tip out some noids and gently brush say 8 of the finest little particles into a cig see what happens, can you handle any more after 30 mins? double up.

What happens every time is i end up layering my cigs with powder not giving a shyt and i'm fine you reach this "tolerant" plane especially if you puked after that you can do into some silly doses and hospital isn't in the question.
 

roi

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i have no scales and don't care

Said everyone who landed in hospital from a synthetic cannabinoid overdose ever.

Incredible bad idea. Don't risk your life. Dose volumetric.
 
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Transform

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If you don't care for your own safety there's nothing we can do about that, no matter how much we disapprove; but don't act like that is a safe thing to do or a good tactic for anyone else.

You might be getting away with this because you are highly tolerant but it is not at all unheard of for regular SCRA users to suffer severe adverse events after months of use and it's not clear if this is because of uneven blends or just straight up toxicity.
 

Jesusgreen

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About to order some and i have no scales and don't care, the worst i've ever been on cannibinoids is projectile vomitting, i don't think ug scales are necessary at all just be smart with your substance chuck a few specs in a cig to start off and i do mean literally tip out some noids and gently brush say 8 of the finest little particles into a cig see what happens, can you handle any more after 30 mins? double up.

What happens every time is i end up layering my cigs with powder not giving a shyt and i'm fine you reach this "tolerant" plane especially if you puked after that you can do into some silly doses and hospital isn't in the question.

You realise 25-50 micrograms, a dose at which most of these are active, is pretty much near invisible to the human eye. These *aren't* like your regular cannabinoid. I'll come out and admit it here that while I have a scale, when it comes to cannabinoids like AM-2201 etc (which are still fairly potent, 0.5-1mg dose with no tolerance, few milligrams or more with a higher tolerance) I've eyeballed them, or rather I have a specific stick that is very good at getting within 0.5-1.5mg of AM-2201 on the end every time (tested against my scales) so I rarely bothered to weigh it, and with some cannabinoids and tolerance there's no real need safety wise, you'll have a bad time if you overdo it, maybe throw up or get anxious like you mentioned.

These are different though.Taking a couple milligrams too many of AM-2201 or JWH-018 from bad eyeballing means you're taking maybe 2-3x the dose you wanted if you're low tolerance, or barely altering it if you have tolerance. So yeah you might get too high, "whitey" (as we call it in England) which is where you go pale from low blood pressure, feel sick and anxious, and sometimes throw up. It's nothing serious, just unpleasant. Unless you accidentally take say 10mg of AM-2201 with no tolerance, you're not gonna end up in hospital unless you call up an ambulance because you freak out. (Still, scales should be used with these for 99% of people because a freak out is NOT fun)

The tiniest dot you can take out of a bag of powder will be 0.5-4 milligrams usually depending on how fluffy the powder is, and you can take out 10 dots that look identical and they'll all be different weighs, the human eye can't discern between 10mg and 20mg of powder, nevermind 1mg and 2mg, hence why yes you've puked a few times with regular cannabinoids.

So now if you're eyeballing you will take at least 0.5mg, up to 4mg, maybe even 10mg if you're unlucky and get a clumpy tiny rock that looks like regular powder but has a heavier consistency (had it happen many a time). Now the CHMINACA are mostly active at 50 micrograms. Thats not 10mg, or 4mg, or even the least you'll get 0.5mg, that's 1/10th of that, and that's for a full dose if you don't have a tolerance already.

Taking 2-3mg with no tolerance is 40-60 doses. With AM-2201 for example (I use it because it was one of the more potent cannabinoids until these lot came out, with 0.5mg being enough with low tolerance) even if you fuck up insanely bad at most you're going to take like 10x your intended dose. At 10x the intended dose, there's a risk of seizures (which can kill you, believe it or not), but it's a very small risk, very very small, you're more likely to choke on your own vomit than die from a seizure from accidentally taking 10x the dose of AM-2201, which again, is completely unlikely.

Taking 40x your intended dose of AM-2201, will almost certainly cause you to have strong seizures, you'll be lucky if someone's around to take you to hospital before it's too late, and death is a very real possibility. 60x, good luck with that.

Now these CHMINACAs like I said, if you eyeball, you'll be taking 40-60x the dose like 50-75% of the time. So you've basically got a 50% chance of being fine, and 50% chance of ending up in hospital (if you're lucky enough that someone's around..). These are 10-20x more potent than AM-2201, and 30-40x more potent than JWH-018, and like 250x more potent than JWH-081 for example. With all the existing cannabinoids prior to the CHMINACAs that I can think of (aside from some you can't get on the RC market) other than PB-22 and 5F-PB-22, you'd need to really mess up to end up with seizures, it happens, but not if you're not stupid.

These are not the cannabinoids you've been dealing with though. These are not weed, these are not even JWHs or AMs or AKBs or your previous cannabinoids you're used to, smoking a couple milligrams too much won't mean you're stuck in bed anxious as fuck for half an hour or puking at worst, it'll almost certainly mean seizures and death is a very real, and not unlikely possibility.

Would you be happy to take say 4g of Tramadol with no tolerance? Bearing in mind a normal dose for a healthy adult is 50-200mg, and at 400mg+ many people have seizures? What about 16g or 24g? Taking such a dose would be suicidal and you'd have to have some kind of miracle to live.

Unlike weed and the cannabinoids of the past, even the very potent ones, these are MUCH MUCH more potent and they don't act like your standard cannabinoid, this is in the region of a regular dose producing a full blown trip, shakes and tremors (which mean a seizure is possible) due to the reduction of GABA release, fugue states where you forget everything for up to a day or two and can wonder around and do things on your own, waking up a couple days later in a weird place. This is a very real thing with the extremely potent cannabinoids, at regular doses in sensitive people, and it only takes a few steps over the normal dose to cause these symptoms in a less sensitive person, say 0.2mg (200 micrograms) instead of 50 micrograms.

8 "specs" of the smallest amount you can possibly pick up with any implement, will be several milligrams. One spec is usually 0.5-2mg+, so 8 specs you're looking at a minimum of 80 doses. 80 doses of even the weakest cannabinoids has a very high chance of ending in your death. 80 doses of these more potent ones, well lets just say I'm certain you won't be posting here in a month's time if you go ahead with your idea.

I'm not saying this to be overly cautious or whatever, although it's against harm reduction and such, I'm one of the people who *does* eyeball most cannabinoids, but you cannot eyeball these ones.
 

Firth

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Be very careful with this stuff, it is strong. Very strong. After smoking 5f-akb-48, I gave a smoking blend containing MMB-CHIMANICA a go, before I'd even finished the small joint it caused a massive increase in heart rate, severe anxiety & fear/panic along with closed eye visual hallucinations. I could not move, every time I tried to I felt I would be sick, I just closed my eyes and rode it out for I'd say 30-60 minutes. I smoked approximately 20mg of the 'potpourri', half the spliff, around 40mg of herb in total mixed with tobacco. I will add that I was also on 10mg diazepam at the time. This was not a pleasant experience at all. Similar to a bad trip but nothing like a 'whitey' where you just throw up and crash out.

10-15mg of this stuff in potpourri form gets me very very high. I'm not sure of the concentration. I don't intend to use any more synthetic cannabis once this spice is used up. I might even bin it, doesn't seem safe.
 
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Xsjado

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Oct 21, 2014
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There is not enough info on the potency of MMB-CHMINACA on the tinterwebs yet. As soon as my head becomes clear enough, i shall post what i know from my experience of drastically underestimating it last night. JG is certaintly correct here.
 
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