Lets talk about Fur baby.

[Doppelganger]

heh... I eat meat for my pleasure. Be fucked if I attend a BBQ and am like "you know what... no more meat for me... I've met the suggested iron intake for the week"

On the contrary, I scoff as much down as I can handle, just like most other people. I guess in doing this I'm ok with the slaughter of animals for reasons that extend my general health and well-being.

That said, I've never been well acquainted with animals. I don't hate them, but I rarely like them. If someone were to harm an animal [specifically for entertainment] it would upset me, not out of sympathy for the animal, but for the concern of why someone would find that pleasurable.

Occasionally I'll bond with an animal, but as I said... not commonly. I was even a vegetarian for just under a year, because I went through a phase where I instinctively felt disgusted by the thought of eating an animal. I still am a bit disgusted by it. Why anyone would want to wear one as their clothes is beyond me... I think it looks terrible!

That said, if that's their thing... who am I to criticize from a moral perspective?

 

[Mary Poppins]

innocuous - tick!

 

[silvia saint]

just because one eats meat does not mean one cannot be appalled at the fur trade - wake up

 

[Samadhi]

Innocuous: I agree with you for the most part, but I'm a little confused as to how eating cheese equates to murder... but it's 6.30 am so i'm quite prepared to concede the point due to being half asleep?

Generally speaking, i agree with people wearing fur out of necessity. If people think that owning that lovely autumn coat with lapel and cuffs in mink fur because it looks so pretty is a necessity, well, i got nuthin.

 

[doofqueen]

I refuse to wear fur but I am a hippycrite as i still wear leather and eat meat. I own that though and have to live with it.

 

[Innocuous]

Innocuous: I agree with you for the most part, but I'm a little confused as to how eating cheese equates to murder...

"The most common source for animal-based rennet is the abomasum (fourth stomach) of slaughtered, milk-fed, newborn cow calves"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet

Most hard chesses contain the lining of baby calves stomachs or rennet. You may have noticed some cheese is labelled ‘vegetarian’ these chesses and, as far as I know, mozzarella are the exception to the baby calf thing. Wikipedia mentions some cheaper cheeses are also non-animal rennet based, but I haven’t seen them myself.

And bite me silvia, no argument can exist in a vacuum, not even yours. You eat meat, you moan about people who wear fur, you are a hypocrite.

You want to cry about fur? Come back to me when you're a vegan.

 

[Zero the hero]

You wear fur-even vintage fur-and the message you send is that you support this savage, disgustingly self-indulgent and completely unnecessary industry-the end.

 

[silvia saint]

And bite me silvia, no argument can exist in a vacuum, not even yours. You eat meat, you moan about people who wear fur, you are a hypocrite.

You want to cry about fur? Come back to me when you're a vegan.

i'm a hypocrite because i'm against torturing animals for completely unnecessary reasons?

the cows from which i receive the meat i eat do not get skinned alive, nor are they killed exclusively for the shoes i wear

 

[Innocuous]

Okay, lets clear this up...

You condone torturing animals for completely unnecessary reasons (meat, silk, leather, pearls, down/feathers.) But you condemn torturing animals for completely unnecessary reasons (fur.)

And, not to miss the key point here, you're not a hypocrite.


*snicker*

 

[silvia saint]

*snicker*? i guess you're feeling pretty smart with "me so dumb"

the keyword is torture.

it's not much but i avoid veal. will i be glad when kfc cleans up it's act? yes. do i buy free range? yes

people like yourself shit me because you'd rather people do nothing than even attempt to right some of the wrongs in the world.

what part of "the cows from which i receive the meat i eat do not get skinned alive" did you miss?

maybe you should try grey for a change, black and white is only flattering your ego

 

[kryalkastleE]

I must admit i DO buy free range eggs, and i wont eat veal either, BUT im sure SOME animals are killed inhumanely for fur, but so are some meats, im sure not all Cows die humanely. I guess i'd rather not think about it. Obviously some animals are "skinned alive" in some parts, but how do we know that some used for fur arent just killed the same way meat is killed?

 

[ValeTudo]

is it cruel if the animal is killed swiftly and there's plenty to replace it? The animal feel no pain and humans get to look snazzy.

 

[silvia saint]

Obviously some animals are "skinned alive" in some parts, but how do we know that some used for fur arent just killed the same way meat is killed?

usually the method chosen is one that does the least damage to the pelt, such methods are the most horrific and cost effective - clubbing seals for example

 

[m4dd0g]

maybe you should try grey for a change, black and white is only flattering your ego

lol - Im going to steal that *yoink*

 

[New Beginning]

My two cents.

Hello kids!

I own two items of clothing made from fur - a mink coat (old) and a fox fur hat (new). I also own a leather belt and two pairs of leather shoes. In our house, we have a leather couch and too leather chairs. I eat meat. I use products that at some point were developed with the aid of animal testing - soaps, medicines, etc.

And I have a cat who I love very much.

I am not against the use of animal products for food or fashion. However I would like to see the processing of fur moved back to Australia and Europe. My new fur hat came from China and some of you would have seen how animals get treated and then killed at some of these farms. By shifting production overseas it removes the ability to set and inforce national standards over how the animals live and die. And this is a political as well as an economic problem - it may be cheaper to farm in places like China but political pressure (particularly in Europe) has helped drive local fur farms out of business. So instead they move production off-shore where regulations are more lax. The result is that smug animal rights activists in the U.K. gloat about abolishing fur farming in Britain while animals are bred in significantly worse conditions overseas.

Regulation is the key - it is for the farming of animals and can be for the farming of fur.

(And as for 'fake fur' - look at some of the scandals recently over some leading design houses and their 'faux fur' linings on products; it turns out they were actually using cat and dog hair.)

 

[Innocuous]

*snicker*? i guess you're feeling pretty smart with "me so dumb"

the keyword is torture.

it's not much but i avoid veal. will i be glad when kfc cleans up it's act? yes. do i buy free range? yes

people like yourself shit me because you'd rather people do nothing than even attempt to right some of the wrongs in the world.

what part of "the cows from which i receive the meat i eat do not get skinned alive" did you miss?

maybe you should try grey for a change, black and white is only flattering your ego

Beautiful quote by the way... but I think you stole my point.

Many of the things we do, including fur, are beyond the pale. In the main though people, such as yourself, compartmentalize their use of logic so they need only deal only with one issue at a time, in your case fur. Unfortunately it is impossible to make a convincing and indeed compelling argument when you engage in this. In fact, such behavior sabotages your point.

You feel revolted and, it appears, morally outraged at clubbing of baby seals, mink farming and basically anything that involves fur. Which is fine, I mean, I can't say I'm excited by it either. But rather then take that outrage and seek to understand it, and use logic and intelligent reasoning to convince others of its faults, you respond by taking a moral stance from which you can then blanketly condemn anyone who wears fur, the fur industry, fashion houses etc. One might summarize it as 'I dun wer fur, I iz good. Youes wear fur, you iz teh evilz!11' A beautiful moment in black and white logic if ever I saw one.

So.. take your own advice, see the grey. You don't wear fur... thats a good start, not a moral standpoint. Some people do... find ways you can show them to either use something else or source fur that doesn't require the same sickening torture that much of fur does. Fur doesn't have to end, (unless you're vegan) it just needs to catch up with societies current concept of what is and is not acceptable treatment of animals. Inarticulate morality arguments will get us all no-where, and at the end of the day this argument is about instigating sociatal change, isn't it? Or is it about how hot you are and how lame everyone else is?

And while I'm here, how do you feel about silk?

 

[Samadhi]

I bought a heap of silk while in Cambodia, but only after we'd visited a silk farm that produces "peace" silk. It is a process whereby the moths are allowed to emerge from the cocoons before the silk is harvested. Seeing the end to end process of how silk is made using traditional methods (hand-weaving/dyeing/spinning) was amazing. We bought alot of very good-quality silk, and left the the farm with a totally clear conscience.

 

[silvia saint]

Beautiful quote by the way... but I think you stole my point.

Many of the things we do, including fur, are beyond the pale. In the main though people, such as yourself, compartmentalize their use of logic so they need only deal only with one issue at a time, in your case fur. Unfortunately it is impossible to make a convincing and indeed compelling argument when you engage in this. In fact, such behavior sabotages your point.

You feel revolted and, it appears, morally outraged at clubbing of baby seals, mink farming and basically anything that involves fur. Which is fine, I mean, I can't say I'm excited by it either. But rather then take that outrage and seek to understand it, and use logic and intelligent reasoning to convince others of its faults, you respond by taking a moral stance from which you can then blanketly condemn anyone who wears fur, the fur industry, fashion houses etc. One might summarize it as 'I dun wer fur, I iz good. Youes wear fur, you iz teh evilz!11' A beautiful moment in black and white logic if ever I saw one.

So.. take your own advice, see the grey. You don't wear fur... thats a good start, not a moral standpoint. Some people do... find ways you can show them to either use something else or source fur that doesn't require the same sickening torture that much of fur does. Fur doesn't have to end, (unless you're vegan) it just needs to catch up with societies current concept of what is and is not acceptable treatment of animals. Inarticulate morality arguments will get us all no-where, and at the end of the day this argument is about instigating sociatal change, isn't it? Or is it about how hot you are and how lame everyone else is?

And while I'm here, how do you feel about silk?

the fur issue is black and white, it's plain wrong for the obvious reasons. nobody is immune from hypocrisy, which is where you should see in shades of grey before dismissing an anti-fur meat consumer.

"Inarticulate morality arguments", "One might summarize it as 'I dun wer fur, I iz good. Youes wear fur, you iz teh evilz!11' A beautiful moment in black and white logic if ever I saw one."?

that's just plain smug. why should i prepare a degree earning response for something most people won't even read? "youse r scum" still gets my point across and no, i'm not missing your point. whether i'm good or bad is irrelevant, as i said, people who support the fur industry after being made aware of it's practices are scum. they're not?

"In the main though people, such as yourself, compartmentalize their use of logic so they need only deal only with one issue at a time, in your case fur."

yes, here's a recent pic

i'll leave you to your al gore bashing

 

[MoeBro]

I bought a heap of silk while in Cambodia, but only after we'd visited a silk farm that produces "peace" silk. It is a process whereby the moths are allowed to emerge from the cocoons before the silk is harvested. Seeing the end to end process of how silk is made using traditional methods (hand-weaving/dyeing/spinning) was amazing. We bought alot of very good-quality silk, and left the the farm with a totally clear conscience.

That results in shorter fibres due to tearing of the silk by the emerging moth. what was the price like compared to other similar non-peace silk?

I assume an inconsequential sum by our standards...

 

[Samadhi]

Absolutely. The peace silk was more expensive than "non" peace silk, but we were willing to pay the very insignificant extra (from memory, it was maybe a $4USD p/m difference). Funnily enough, it wasn't so much the fact that it was peace-silk, it was more that the farm we purchased the silk from was formed to create jobs for amputees, hearing impaired and people from villages. It taught them skills that they could use to make a living for themselves. Another part of the organisation taught tradition Khmer craft such as bas relief, stone carving, silversmithing, we bought quite a few pieces from the place.