Lets talk about Fur baby.

[silvia saint]

what do you want me to say? if i had to, i probably wouldn't, no, actually i wouldn't. most wouldn't. i was brought up on meat. i tried to quit, i don't have the cooking skills nor the willpower to convert right now, i have enough issues, more pressing issues to deal with.

this isn't a thread about the alleged hypocrisy of anti-fur carnivores. killing an animal for fashion, killing an animal for food. no comparison.

 

[stephaniesomewhere]

I think the killing for food/killing for fashion argument is the crux of the argument, or did I just miss the point and klling is good and therefore ignore anything against it....
however as I am not perfect I really wouldn't want to tell someone else what they should or shouldn't do...if it raises questions for them then I don't have a problem with that.

It is totally an individual decision and we each come to those through a variety of influences. If we think a bit wider and broader because one of the people here was pictured wearing a fur hat and it bought up issues for others amongst us then I say YAY, bring on the thought and debate surrounding these issues...at least then we are not just mindless consumers of what we are told is "cool"

 

[MoeBro]

I couldn't give a rats ass if people wear fur.
I wouldn't like people to lean on my choice of clothing, why should I do the same to theirs?

Trees have no nervous system. They have no feelings or anything else a nervous system can convey. They may react to surroundings, but not any more than your autonomous reactions to a splinter, for example.

 

[preacha]

i eat cheeseburgers.
i eat steak.
i eat basically any sort of meat.
why not make use of the fur as well?

no seriously.
if im eating animals, why not wear them too, its not like they are just being killed for their fur, they are probably getting killed for being pre-packaged in coles little plastic meat trays. if u eat meat i cant see how wearing fur is any worse than eating the animal it came from.

name one item of fur that you own that has also belonged to an animal you have eaten.

also, people who wear second hand fur and justify it by saying that 'i didn't give funds directly to the manufacturer' are the same as people who purchase second-hand jewellery encrusted with blood/conflict diamonds.

you are still stimulating a market that should not exist.

in life, you can separate every item into two columns: needs & wants. if that animal died for nothing more than a want, then there is no justification behind its murder.

besides, i don't know the last time anyone in australia ate a mink.

 

[m4dd0g]

god damn, i really want to know mink taste like now

anyone else drooling?

 

[specialrelativity]

I much prefer woman fur

specialrelativity

 

[rm2x]

And I thought I was the only Milhouse.
" So this is what it sounds like when doves cry"

And to think we wasted our time together talking cod shit...

LOL

such wasted time! (not!)

 

[LvMkngFlwrChld]

dont get new fur at least. if its vintage like you say, someone already paid them to kill the poor fox, but please dont pay people to kill animals

 

[kryalkastleE]

name one item of fur that you own that has also belonged to an animal you have eaten.

also, people who wear second hand fur and justify it by saying that 'i didn't give funds directly to the manufacturer' are the same as people who purchase second-hand jewellery encrusted with blood/conflict diamonds.

you are still stimulating a market that should not exist.

in life, you can separate every item into two columns: needs & wants. if that animal died for nothing more than a want, then there is no justification behind its murder.

besides, i don't know the last time anyone in australia ate a mink.

Even though i was fairly drunk when i posted this last night i guess i was wasnt thinking. BUT what about leather? How is that any different? It still is animals for fashion, just because it isnt fur...

and btw i dont actually OWN ANY FUR AT ALL. i dont like fur, i think it feels kinda gross, and i think fake fur is much better, but if people wanna wear fur for their fashion, and the animal has died ANYWAY, whats the harm? I dont agree with hunting animals JUST for their fur, just like i dont agree with hunting whales for blubber, or hunting elephants for their tusks. But most people who have fur probably did get it from some animal that was being game hunted anyway. Maybe something that isnt humane, but is done ALL THE TIME.
I guess im not really sure where i stand on this.
I can see both points of view.
And im sure somewhere in the world they probably eat mink.
And if they aren't endangered...what is the difference is killing it for fur, compared to something like game hunting where they kill deer and stuff?

 

[lostpunk5545]

Sorry maxload but plants just don't have the required equipment for sentience.

Sure we are just a series of chemical reactions and electrical impulses but we have equipment for processing and being somewhat aware of what is going on, a central nervous system and a brain.

But if personifying plants stops you from supporting old growth logging or something by all means continue.

Sorry krystalkastleE but fur is not a byproduct of the food industry. Leather mainly is. But if you support fur (not saying you do personally - just generalising), you support fur farming. It's an industry in and of itself.

Someone requested photos not be posted, but fuck that. Let's make it blatantly obvious what we're discussing:

Source

^ That's called waste. If you support the fur trade that's what you support.

 

[Mary Poppins]

name one item of fur that you own that has also belonged to an animal you have eaten.

also, people who wear second hand fur and justify it by saying that 'i didn't give funds directly to the manufacturer' are the same as people who purchase second-hand jewellery encrusted with blood/conflict diamonds.

you are still stimulating a market that should not exist.

in life, you can separate every item into two columns: needs & wants. if that animal died for nothing more than a want, then there is no justification behind its murder.

besides, i don't know the last time anyone in australia ate a mink.

lol!

no but a lot of fur items manufactured in australia are from animals that are pests. ANYWAY

in response to your extraordinarily melodramatic comparison to jewellery "encrusted with blood/conflict diamonds" - i don't see how EITHER of these is necessarily stimulating the market?

If it's sold in an op shop it's going to charity or the op shop owner ffs. Who hardly is then going to invest this money in a furrier or go and buy a gazillion more furs?

The ONLY way it could be conceived as stimulating the market would be by people seeing it, coveting it and then conceivably going out and buying a new one. There are a lot of 'what ifs' in that situation so I'm not particularly concerned, nor do I think it presents a tangible enough influence on the fur trade to stop me from buying a 2nd hand fur.

Yes, it died for a need not a want (in your terms - I would debate that we need to eat the amount of meat we do, or that the amount of meat that is killed needs to be killed, especially considering the damage to the environment raising stock does....) but it died a long time ago, and what ELSE are you going to do with it? It has truly died in vain if you go and throw it out or burn it.

And if anyone IS affected by this thread and wants to get rid of their fur, pm me and I shall give you my address

 

[up all night]

See my loafers? Former gophers.

I'm not against killing animals for our benefit, but I am against the inhumane treatment of animals for whatever reason (food, medical testing etc).

Killing animals for fur is a fairly specific trade and there has been much publicity about how badly the animals are treated. Why justify wearing fur because someone else bought it first? I understand where Bloss is coming from but in my mind it's not really a valid point because you need to look at the bigger picture.

Sure, the fox is already dead, but if you wear fur and are excited about the fact that you have a dead animal resting on your head then there will continue to be a demand for it and more animal's are going to be killed for their fur. Despite what you may think, you're still supporting today's fur trade.

If that doesn't bother you then more power to you! I wouldn't judge someone for wearing fur, I would just never personally do it myself (although if I'm totally honest, it freaks me out and makes me feel like a caveman.)

 

[kryalkastleE]

A very insightful discussion.

If the animals were treated "humanely" in the same "humane" way animals are killed for meat would that changes anyones decisions? Just curious.
We are saying we NEED meat to live. Do we really? (but i guess thats a whole other discussion.)

And i agree with you UAN, fur makes me feel kinda weird as well, i think because its a "dead" thing, but i dont judge people wearing fur, if they wanna wear dead vermin around them, so be it.
I remember my nan had this fox fur scarf thing, and it actually still had the head of the fox on the end. Kinda eww, i wore it for a dress up thing one time, and i think i kept it on for a total of 2 minutes before it started to freak me out because it was "looking" at me.

Clothes arent meant to look at you. But again, we dont think of COWS as leather. But because we eat them does that make it alright?

 

[lostpunk5545]

I'm against eating meat ethically because in today's society it is not necessary. But I find eating meat more justifiable than wearing fur because we are biologically evolved to be omnivorous.

 

[silvia saint]

A very insightful discussion.

If the animals were treated "humanely" in the same "humane" way animals are killed for meat would that changes anyones decisions? Just curious.

yes, it would, but only if the animal was killed for meat (for human consumption) and it's pelt was utilised as to not waste.

you're obviously questioning just how "humane" killing cattle is, if killing can be humane at all, but it just can't be compared to skinning a dog whilst it is alive

Clothes arent meant to look at you. But again, we dont think of COWS as leather. But because we eat them does that make it alright?

yes, in the killing for fashion debate anyway

 

[Negcreep]

Go the fur trade, i'm all for it. my whole house is covered in fur and various animal pieces. it creates a very Bohemian environment. just what i like. animals are just another resource for us to use and abuse, we're all just a bunch of animals really.

 

[BloSs0m]

I felt quite comfortable giving a new lease of life to what was likely a memory taking up space in someones closet.

That's my thinking exactly.

Bloss --- I'm pretty sure fashion manufacturers wouldn't use fur from anything unsterile. Your argument is a bit flawed there.
I accept the animals were killed for the purpose of the garment. That's the only way it can happen. Roadkill unfortunately can't find its way into some hobo's bag on his way to Donatella's house. It just doesn't work like that.

I didn't say they did, and I wouldn't expect them to. That would be too whacky for fashion. Although i do know that there is an artist who does a lot of work with roadkill... I'll remember their name soon enough.

 

[CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT]

^A friend of mine used to, actually now you mention it.

Sorry, must have mis read / mis interpreted your original post about the roadkill bit.

 

[Innocuous]

Well, my thinking on fur is thus:

1/ I was brought up vego, and despite my best effort I am still basically vego. (therefore compared to most aussies, I am way on moral high ground in the 'senseless killing' area.)

2/ If it's second hand, especially hand-me-down, it does not contribute to the fur industries expansion and thus to killing more little fluffy things. (Your nannas fur, the fur you find in Vinnies/garage sales for instance.)

3/ If they were killing said animal anyway for eating, it seems better we use all of it then waste the poor animals parts because we're so deeply in denial about our murderous habits. (fur farming however I think has no excuse, it just seems cruelly indulgent. That jewller who uses roadkill is cool though.)

Therefore.... I can wear it.

However if any one gives me any of that: 'OMFG! MURDER!!!!!!!!!!!11!'
I say: 'So what did you have for dinner, lunch... breakfast? Cheese? Maybe some nice animal flesh? And is that.... leather I see? Would you like to talk to me about your doona and perhaps your pillows? Goose down anyone? Oh? Really, and by your logic you're not a murderer and I am. Enchanting. Let me note this down: Second hand fur bad, fresh animal skin shoes belt and wallet good, killing birds and plucking their feathers out good, animal flesh cutlets, wings, torso slices and unweaned calf stomach lining good.... did I miss a contradiction?'

I don't mind vegans who cry about people wearing fur, they have a point, but the whole meat eater in denial thing shits me. If you yourself are responsible for unnecessary often excruciating deaths of animals not to mention hideous living conditions and the traumatic and inhuman slaughterhouse environment in which they are incarcerated prior to death, shut the fuck up.*

*emotive language used to make point only, eating meat is fine, just lets not get too blasé about what it involves. Namely, killing animals for no other reason then that it suits your lifestyle choices. I too eat the stuff, its more convenient for my trashbag lifestyle then having a proper diet with all those legumes and leafy greens. The difference is I don't ask the fishmonger to chop off fishies head and tail so I don't have to face what I'm doing.

 

[kryalkastleE]

^^^
excellent post.