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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Lets talk about Fur baby.

vanth said:
No, you didn't come across as intense, you came across as rude.

I would have thought someone with such an obvious thirst for knowledge and discussion such as yourself would know how to disagree with someone without childish insults, and respect another person's right to an opinion that differs from yours.
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lostpunk was rude, but what you said wasnt an opinion
 
M4ddog, whether or not the killing is humane (which in any sort of mass production sense is never 100 percent) do you not draw a distinction between killing for meat, a necessity for a lot of people, and killing for fashion?
 
The reason people wear fur is because fur works. Its a bit rich for most people who live in australia to shun a fur coat because tempertures never get below -5 deg. I don't care how many layers of gortex you put on, nothing (and believe me at -20 nothing) comes close to a good fur coat.

It is all relative, in Oz the humble possum is cute and cuddly, a shame to hit in a car. In NZ they are vermin, worse than rats. Not only do they strip the native forests, they also are responsible for eating many eggs of endandered species. 60 million possums or a few thousand kiwis? The choice is easy, develop a cottage industry that encourages the hunting and disposal of possums. Bury the fur or sell the fur and use the money to fund the protection of native fauna? You haven't experienced anything like sleeping under a possum fur duvet.

Its a bit rich to worry about how an animal dies when millions of humans are shot, die from horrible diseases or from starvation every day. I do not advercate animal cruelty by any means, but tell me what percentage of organisms on this planet die a peaceful death? OK maybe the humble carrot, but he had it coming, looking all orange and that. ;)
 
^I understand what you are saying with the whole feral problem, and i guess in that context, it would depend on how the animal was actually killed, and whether or not the animal was considered feral in the locality it was killed in. I guess the whole controversy stems from the traditional mink coat, and the fact that mink, otters and other relatives are not considered a feral pest throughout the world.

maxload said:
Its a bit rich to worry about how an animal dies when millions of humans are shot, die from horrible diseases or from starvation every day. I do not advercate animal cruelty by any means, but tell me what percentage of organisms on this planet die a peaceful death? OK maybe the humble carrot, but he had it coming, looking all orange and that. ;)
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No one is saying, however, that the issue of thousands of people dying is any less serious. Of course people should be concerned about these issues, but the two aren't mutually exclusive. And really, simply because you feel that most things don't die peacefully is certainly no reason to perpetuate violence by supporting industries that do kill animals for luxury items.

(Carrots have feelings too).
 
I think that's my point too, Mr CS. In the context of feral species, or for necessity (such as the traditional Inuit tribe) then i don't really have a problem with it, as the practices are humane (the Inuit don't treat animals cruelly and will kill the beasts in as humane way as possible). As maxload said, killing of vermin, and using by-products of the animal for things like clothing, blankets, etc, i don't have an issue with.

What i do have an issue with is inhumane breeding and farming of animals specifically so that Ms Park Avenue can have her mink arse-warmer or a fox hanging around her neck... which, in my opinion, isn't just offensive, but is really fucking trashy. :\
 
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MR Candyslut said:
(Carrots have feelings too).
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Fuck carrots, more ugly people get laid because of poor night vision if they are wiped out. Carrot skin gloves anyone?

Just because trees don't scream, does this mean they feel no pain? They move from stimuli just like animals do :\
 
Fuck carrots?
Its fascinating to watch maxload attempting to usher in a new age of depravity

lostpunk5545 said:
M4ddog, whether or not the killing is humane (which in any sort of mass production sense is never 100 percent) do you not draw a distinction between killing for meat, a necessity for a lot of people, and killing for fashion?
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Morally? Not at all.

We kill animals all the time, for sport, accidentally, for food, clothing, population areas, polution, etc... (that doesnt make it right, but hear me out)
Killing for sport (entertainment) is surely the worst and yet we glorify it on things like fishing shows. So where is the bucket of blood thrown on the celebrities?

Im with maxload (no we're not dating, no matter how much i ask) and i'll go further to say i think the fur thing is a petty reaction against a rich stereotype. A rich bitch walking down the street wearing a fur coat is a symbol for the guilt that 99.99% of animals we'll kill in order to fulfill an unnecessary lifestyle. Honestly, i think the 'rich bitch' is the real target.

The question is: what is the value of an animals life and whats the currency?

According to the majority of people an animal life is not worth as much as a good steak dinner + guilt associated with eating it, if any. I dont know anyone who has died of being vegetarian, so how necessary is it??
But according to some people its worth more than a very expensive coat that can be used repeatedly for years ....

anyway, it just reeks of 'convenient morals' to me
 
(maxload)Pain is the function of a nervous system. Plants don't have nerves. Therefore they don't feel pain.

They do respond to stimuli but this is on a chemical level, there is no conscious awareness of suffering.

I agree on every level M4ddog.

However meat is something that it is difficult for people to give up (and in most third world countries - not an option at all).

Wearing fur is not something that a person suffers for to stop.

However moralistically, rather than realistically, I agree there is no distinction, hence my journey into vegetarianism.
 
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i eat cheeseburgers.
i eat steak.
i eat basically any sort of meat.
why not make use of the fur as well?

no seriously.
if im eating animals, why not wear them too, its not like they are just being killed for their fur, they are probably getting killed for being pre-packaged in coles little plastic meat trays. if u eat meat i cant see how wearing fur is any worse than eating the animal it came from.
 
Pain is a state of mind. If you are a pussy do you suffer more?

Because someone can endure ( and in some cases enjoy) more pain, does this mean the treatment against each person is different?

How do you explain the reaction of love on plants. Now my love towards the vegetative species in my garden is purely plutonic (despite the trees getting wood) but I have no worries sacrficing plants for my eating pleasure (or fashion).

Completetly off topic, but I truely believe that plants, and especially trees have a true sense of their surrounds. I can't imagine a 100 yr old tree is not aware of a change in its environment as it has gone from living in a forrest to be surrounded by civilisation on a busy street corner. It may not be aware of our humane five senses as such but that is no reason it does not have a sense of self. After all isn't our nervous system just a jumble of chemical also?


And you wish Mr Dogg. I just hit the bottle of wine you left at mine, a bit sweet for a Sav Blanc for mind......
 
MR Candyslut said:
^I understand what you are saying with the whole feral problem, and i guess in that context, it would depend on how the animal was actually killed, and whether or not the animal was considered feral in the locality it was killed in. I guess the whole controversy stems from the traditional mink coat, and the fact that mink, otters and other relatives are not considered a feral pest throughout the world.
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actually I'm pretty sure mink, otters and other relatives are basically rodent type creatures in europe?

a la rabbits in australia.

i've no problem wearing vintage fur, (and obviously, if you have had granny's fur sitting in a trunk for 40 years, then yes, you know it's vintage) but i feel even less inclined to give Greenpeace money/the time of day if i'm wearing pest-fur.

heathen? maybe.
realist? definitely.
 
maxload said:
Completetly off topic, but I truely believe that plants, and especially trees have a true sense of their surrounds. I can't imagine a 100 yr old tree is not aware of a change in its environment as it has gone from living in a forrest to be surrounded by civilisation on a busy street corner. It may not be aware of our humane five senses as such but that is no reason it does not have a sense of self. After all isn't our nervous system just a jumble of chemical also?
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That's really blown me away, you're the first person I have come across that shares the same belief in that as I. I have been laughed at by people before for saying that :|

Ok, a little on Faux Fur.

Alot of it is'nt actually fake, it comes from a cute little critter called the Racoon Dog.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racoon_dog

http://www.tierschutz.com/movies/pelz_mediaplayer.wmv

http://www.hsus.org/furfree/news/faux_fur_for_sale.html
 
anybody who supports the fur industry after being made aware of it's practices is scum.

due to the backlash, a great deal of fur is now sourced from countries with no regulation whatsoever, so the whole humane killing argument can fuck off. so can the hypocrite meat eating argument. people kill cattle for food, if we are to do so we should at least use every inch.

recently, i believe, p.dickhead's "sean john" clothing line used racoon dogs for fur coats, sourced from china. the animals are bashed till unconscious (many are not so lucky), then skinned alive and tossed on a pile to die. many regain consciousness before they do so. all so one can look "hot".

unless you're some mountain man or third world native you have no excuse to wear fur in this day and age. vintage fur as far as i'm concerned promotes the current industry, it's not as though others are aware of it's vintage status.

if i wasn't an atheist i'd pray to god that i could become famous someday just to be possibly presented with the opportunity to urinate on j-lo and beyonce in public, cunts.
 
rm2x said:
That's really blown me away, you're the first person I have come across that shares the same belief in that as I. I have been laughed at by people before for saying that :|
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And I thought I was the only Milhouse.
" So this is what it sounds like when doves cry"

And to think we wasted our time together talking cod shit...;)
 
ewww....not only do they exploit the animal but we also exploit other humans making such products!
*faux or real fur made from real animals put together by cheap labour in China*
yeh yeh...jump my bones but I really think that it is just a case of people telling us it looks good rather than looking at it for what it is and where it's sourced from...of course such is the case for most of our clothing and in order to be puritanical we might have to go nudie....damn!!
And if we wear second hand goods that is considered good by our "recycling is ok" mentality however I do think it perpetuates to a certain extent that this is a cool image and therefore could in some way lead to glamourisation and perpetuaion of the fur trade.
8o
your perspective in terms of what is right and wrong is just information combined with our own initial predjudices (formed by friends, family and the environemt) which of course are always open for change but it can be incredible how strongly we hold onto what we initially believe and dismiss the opinions of those that differ from ours in order to justify what we WANT to believe.......each to their own really however I think we will be debating such issues till the cows (or minx) come home as a result.
:)
 
m4dd0g said:
(silvia saint) ^ ever seen inside an abattoir?
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yawn. blowing the brains out of something for food is something i can live with and is necessary in most parts of the world to sustain our life. trapping an animal which slowly starves to death, in agony, only to eventually chew it's own leg off to escape, bleeding to death shortly after, to fulfill the needs of some superficial, materialistic bitch is not the same kettle of fish.
 
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