Opioids How addictive is kratom?

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

That's one of the nasty things here; after using for so long one doesn't really know any more how the actual baseline state would feel like. My guess is, that you got yourself into this habit not because your life is all happy and shiny, am i right? So there is the reflex/temptation so say: "I feel like shit because of XY and this is how the future is going to look like for me (foreeeever!) etc." which makes you buy into this funk and then it breaks you.

Win yourself some time, by e.g. saying "i have a limited perspective here, i will evaluate the situation on day XY, but until then i will not react or draw any quick conclusions and be stubborn as a mountaingoat ", ..or something like that. Do you know what i mean? And even if you fall of the wagon after, say 3 days, in this time you have done some work, don't neglect that! The next time you try, it will be easier because of this (unless you use continuously again).

Or you could flip over to the Recovery Support subforum and barf yourself out if you think it might help? But who am i telling, you are way longer here than me. All the best..

Initially discovered the beauty of percocet and for a while it improved the quality of my life.. until the doses became 4 M30 blues a day if I fast forward the story. I switched to kratom to escape that habit because it was clearly going nowhere better despite how much I love opioids. I was in a prestigious schooling program at the time, and it was taking a huge toll on my mental health as depression/anxiety was so hard to manage without opioids. The social environment was also very unkind and highly competitive in which opioids helped to blast away the negativity. Now I'm just left with an addiction, lol.

But I really do like your perspective. It did feel like life would never be good again.

 

[xaddictx]

The issue with kratom for me was that I replaced opiates with it. Got down to 8g a day, 4x a day x2mg. Posted a thread on here. Some mod was like "oh you can just cold turkey, you won't feel thing. No big deal." Well, that mod was wrong. Very wrong. Certainly it was not as bad as heroin or oxycodone withdrawal, but it fucking sucked. It was much more of a mental anxietal arousal state. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd rather prefer an opiate withdrawal over kratom withdrawal. Just a constant, low wave unpleasant anxiety... for much longer than a typical acute phase opiate withdrawal.

Now this might've been because I replaced opiates with Kratom. So if your neurons are virgins when it comes to opiates, but you develop a kratom addiction, well, it might be different. But I'm very careful with kratom these days. It's not that jumping off 8G a day was intolerable, but it was just agonizing in terms of your brain feeling stressed out. On edge, insomnia for weeks, feels like no progress is made.

I was getting high quality kratom from smiley hippopotamus, so definitley a lot better than this gas station junk that lot of people on here seem to have no qualms taking. I would never ever buy shit from a local store. Ever heard of the Citarum river? Yeah, you don't want your kratom plants drinking water from that shithole. And that's exactly the type of kratom in gas stations- weak and polluted. Anyway, i'm on a tangent.

Moral of the story: Taper, taper, taper. Buy a scale that goes to the thousandths and lower your dose by a tenth of a gram a day. Stretch out your doses too. See if you can go an extra hour. Anyway, there's my 2 cents.

Get mine from the same place

 

[xivixive]

trying to kick it again.

usually do 100g a day, this is the end of day 2 at 90g... took a gram off each dose. i don't think i feel any physical wd doing so but mentally i just want to take a bigger dose... ya know "just one"... but i resisted. if i can go a solid 5 days at 9g doses, i think i'll drop another g from the doses... im already doubting that scenerio and starting to think taking a half g off each dose would be a better plan.

 

[xivixive]

scored a bottle of 60x 300mg gabapentin.... eating em like candy and only took 50g kratom yesterday. i;m going to keep this up... feel like i dont need the kratom while on the gaba... i actually have some hope it'll work to kick this shit.. kratom is seriously the most pointless drug to get addicted to... horrible wd at constant high dose use and no benefits other then staving off sickness,

 

[Anonymous Dissident]

Kratom can be *extremely* addictive if used regularly. I used it without issues for over a decade, but following neck surgery in November, my doses went from around 7.5-10g 2 out of 3 nights on average to upwards of 70g/day in a matter of a couple of months.

I'm a bit over 7 weeks into a slow taper, and I'm down to 29g/day, but I'm having a very hard time getting my doses any lower than that with BSO and DXM to ease the unbelievable restlessness and mental stress. I started my taper removing around 1g per day from one of my three doses and did good until I phased out my midday dose. I'm now relegated to cutting out 1g every 4-5 days, slowing my taper to a near standstill.

I know I have some rough days coming up, but I'm proud I've been able to stick to a taper for this long, especially considering I have several kilos sitting around. I'm looking into adding memantine to my regimen for when I, finally, get to the point that my morning dose can be cut out.

I don't regret utilizing the quantity of kratom I did for necessary pain management, and if confronted with the same circumstances I'd do it again, but I'm still taken aback by how much this has sucked. Go to into kratom use knowing that the withdrawal involved from a high dose is horrifyingly difficult. If I was expecting it to be this bad, I might have started reducing my doses sooner and just dealt with extra pain.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

I'm looking into adding memantine to my regimen for when I, finally, get to the point that my morning dose can be cut out.

I would be interested to hear how that goes once you give it a try. I'm tapering too (different opioid) and I've been considering using it as well.

Good luck on your taper

 

[Igotdablues]

If I became addicted to tramadol, how likely is it that I will become addicted to kratom? (Tramadol is supposedly the safest opioid on the market and with the lowest rate of abuse and dependence)
I don't consider myself to have an addictive personality. I quit nicotine cold turkey 5 years ago pretty easily btw.

PLEASE BELIEVE ME when I say Tramadol, however pseudo-classified as, “safest” or “least hardest out of other opioids” is NOT BY ANY MEANS ANY LESS ADDICTIVE
In fact I’ve gone through some of the worse withdrawals on Tramadol than heavy oxy and heroin/fent withdrawals combined. Vicious hell.
I never even felt high in it. I just took it to feel “normal”.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

PLEASE BELIEVE ME when I say Tramadol, however pseudo-classified as, “safest” or “least hardest out of other opioids” is NOT BY ANY MEANS ANY LESS ADDICTIVE
In fact I’ve gone through some of the worse withdrawals on Tramadol than heavy oxy and heroin/fent withdrawals combined. Vicious hell.
I never even felt high in it. I just took it to feel “normal”.

I know right? So many people are like, "what's the least addictive opioid?"

They all belong to the same monster. Although it seems some are sitting ducks for opiate addiction.. I can't account for addicts who somehow never become addicted to them despite having perpetual access yet are addicted to so much else. I suppose they're appealing to a certain personality type or brain chemistry only. For sure though it is not an uncommon addiction. I used to think I was so cool getting away with it and remaining functional with an active social life and being very productive. I think I hate any opiate of any color now. Literally just hate them all when for so long they were a large source of pleasure. That's addiction for you though, it turns from like to pure hatred.

 

[bongdong]

I know right? So many people are like, "what's the least addictive opioid?"

They all belong to the same monster.

I don't really want to argure with this. The diversity of doses, administration patterns and reasons of people (in this thread alone) that use this stuff and get caught in a dependence situation makes this distinction rather useless, at least when i comes to the subjective experience of withdrawal.

However, there is certainly a difference whether a compound is a partial or full agonist and how long it's active or how high the affinity to specific receptors is. Don't think e.g. fentanyl is comparable to kratom. Or like the natural cannabinoid mix of the hemp plant vs. ultra potent full agonistic synthetic cannabinoids for that matter. Just saying..

 

[4meSM]

How many people have been kicked out of their job or have ruined their life because of kratom? You certainly don't see many kratom junkies in the streets. Yeah it's an opioid so it's physically addictive, and it's also mentally addictive like most drugs but it's generally a manageable addiction.

If you feel like your life sucks how about you start taking some responsibility for it instead of blaming everything on a drug?
Just my opinion.

 

[Keif' Richards]

This is a pretty difficult subject to answer with accuracy, but it's a subject worth exploring given the significant rise in Kratom usage we have seen here in the States.

Keaton's effects are mostly due to Mitragynine and other analogous compounds found in the plant. We now know that Mitragynine works upon the Opioid receptors. We dont know if Mitragynine is a partial agonist or a full agonist, but the bottom line seems to be that Kratom is an Opioid.

Given the fact that Opioids are very addictive, I think Kratom use should be treated with the same respect. There are other weaker Opioids like Codeine that introduce folks to Opioids, so you have to understand that it is potentially addictive.

There is more and more information coming out about Kratom and its constituents. There are plenty of people who have gotten addicted and dependent upon the drug.

In the end, I just say treat it like any other Opioid and responsible with usage and you should be fine. I'm not a user of Kratom so I dont want to put myself up on a pedestal regarding knowledge and usage. I hope this is helpful.

 

[Pickledlemons]

Well I will say that kratom withdrawal is way worse than caffeine ( some people like to say that for some reason), but its not as bad as other opiates (we're talking watery eyes, fatigue, restlessness, but not so bad that you want to kill yourself like from fent withdrawal).

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

If I became addicted to tramadol, how likely is it that I will become addicted to kratom? (Tramadol is supposedly the safest opioid on the market and with the lowest rate of abuse and dependence)
I don't consider myself to have an addictive personality. I quit nicotine cold turkey 5 years ago pretty easily btw.

I was addicted to tramadol before I started using kratom regularly. The supply of tram around me was scarce so I would end up being able to get enough for 2 weeks. But then I felt like shit for the next two weeks after that, until the supply got their script.

I eventually said "fuck this" and started using kratom everyday to replace the tram. At first I would get pretty high but as the old story goes...

Opiates are not something that can be used daily without repercussions, and i'm not just talking about withdrawal. This will sound hyperbolic as hell and i'm sure some people (not many, this is a great community) will laugh because "kratom isn't carfentanyl," but I feel as though kratom has taken a lot from me, namely my mind. The negative mental effects of my kratom addiction have been far too numerous to count, although I don't know if all opiates do this with long term use.

Six years ago I didn't listen to people that told me these kinds of things, I wanted to use opiates, and I don't think any amount of advice or warnings could've stopped that. It's just like watching the struggles of a poverty stricken country on the news, it's not real until you've experienced it.

This PSA was brought to you by death flakes, they're more than good, they're cyanide.

 

[bongdong]

Opiates are not something that can be used daily without repercussions, and i'm not just talking about withdrawal. This will sound hyperbolic as hell and i'm sure some people (not many, this is a great community) will laugh because "kratom isn't carfentanyl," but I feel as though kratom has taken a lot from me, namely my mind. The negative mental effects of my kratom addiction have been far too numerous to count, although I don't know if all opiates do this with long term use.

I wasn't laughing or trivializing it. But i have the impression that throwing all (in this case opiate-like) psychoactives in one pot is not very productive in many ways. I think there are always value-free things worth knowing about substances, how they work and can be (mis)used that make a significant difference in outcome.

What happend or what did you notice, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

How many people have been kicked out of their job or have ruined their life because of kratom? You certainly don't see many kratom junkies in the streets. Yeah it's an opioid so it's physically addictive, and it's also mentally addictive like most drugs but it's generally a manageable addiction.

If you feel like your life sucks how about you start taking some responsibility for it instead of blaming everything on a drug?
Just my opinion.

It's quite manageable. But as seen by the posts from users above the sickness is just as bad if you slip into everyday use. If you get sick at the wrong time and place it's basically the same as other opiates. You can't really do anything without the redose, and the withdrawal has to be planned out and in my opinion I've found kratom to be way harder to kick than the real deals. I wish I could go back in time and just tough it out with the long-lasting depression from opioid cessation. I was very excited when I discovered how well it blasted the depression away and I was instantly normal. Now I'm struggling to stop eating kratom.

If kratom was limited like the law limits pain pill prescriptions and heroin I'd imagine people would not find it manageable though. The fact that one can constantly dodge sickness is a godsend for this one.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

I wasn't laughing or trivializing it. But i have the impression that throwing all (in this case opiate-like) psychoactives in one pot is not very productive in many ways. I think t...

I think you're right, throwing all opiates into one pot isn't entirely reasonable. My post was emotionally charged, I didn't mean to come off as accusatory or belittling.

Are you saying that misusing/abusing/binging/addiction has a value in the experience itself?

What have I noticed from my kratom addiction? Intense mental blunting, which admittedly could be partially stress related, but kratom also increases my anxiety levels, lowers my patience, gives me suicidal/depressive thoughts, etc. so it certainly isn't helping with the stress. All of this has gotten worse with time, and although my mental state immediately starts improving when i'm off kratom, I still have intense cravings.

 

[supersonic89]

I was addicted to tramadol before I started using kratom regularly. The supply of tram around me was scarce so I would end up being able to get enough for 2 weeks. But then I felt like shit for the next two weeks after that, until the supply got their script.

Yeah man. I have been taking tramadol every day for almost 2 years and I am afraid to quit because when I have been without my doses life sucks and I do what I can to have my dose (although I have never led to stealing but I have had to sell things to pay for my pills). I don't know what damage I will be doing to my brain or when it will take to heal it after these 2 years but I am afraid of just thinking about it.

 

[DoctorMolecule]

I have a problem that I'm currently prescribed Adderall to treat. However, yesterday I tried kratom for the first time, for recreational purposes. For whatever reason, kratom helped with my problem just as much as Adderall would. What I'm wondering is how addictive and dangerous is kratom? Is it better to be taking than Adderall? Can someone give a couple drugs to compare kratom to in terms of addictiveness? Are there any significant dangers other than addictiveness? Thanks

Yes I’m addicted to Kratom right now. It started at 8 grams, and today I took around 50 gram. But I used it to kick heroin. And I’ve been on my maintenance dose of Kratom for three years. It’s better than the life I was living, but I’m still a slave to it

 

[bongdong]

Are you saying that misusing/abusing/binging/addiction has a value in the experience itself?

No, not in the first place. I meant that there are value- or judgment-free things worth knowing, e.g. how fast/slow a substance is metabolized. That's just a neutral fact (and what real drug education should be about, if you ask me). It gets a value when we view it in a certain way or evaluate it against a desired goal or something we want to avoid. So to generalize/stigmatize/politicise for whatever reason and not make use of these facts is counterproductive i find; that's what i was trying to say.

But when you ask it that way, i do think that there are potential benefits of these types of situation as well. (Don't shoot the messenge!) If you want to explore this more generally we can do this somewhere (if there aren't any threads about this yet). More concretely, regarding kratom, i don't want to neglect that i've learned valueable things cause of my 'misuse'. Am i going to promote it because of that, of course not.

What have I noticed from my kratom addiction? Intense mental blunting, which admittedly could be partially stress related, but kratom also increases my anxiety levels, lowers my patience, gives me suicidal/depressive thoughts, etc. so it certainly isn't helping with the stress. All of this has gotten worse with time, and although my mental state immediately starts improving when i'm off kratom, I still have intense cravings.

Seems that kratom is pretty 'mixed-bag' for you (and perhaps an appendix you got yourself into after your tramadol stuff). Mental blunting it definitely a thing, but sadly (if i had to guess) the main aspect why people do it respectively get hooked on it; to ease pain (mentally and physically). Sorry if i missed that, but what are your cravings about then?

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

I must have really missed my mark with my recent post. I was not saying there is no value in drug education and knowledge, I fully support the efforts of scientists and enthusiasts that study the physiological effects of substances. This is really a completely different subject suitable and i'm not sure how we got here.

There are scientific facts about drugs and there are also practical aspects to drugs, my post was purely practical aspects and anectodal. We should keep the thread focused on the OPs question.