Gabapentinoids Bloody phenibut

[murx12]

indeed. what i noticed was that its much more effective when you swallow the whole bark instead of making into a tea. another interesting aproach would to make a tintcture with alcohol but this would probably take weeks. whats also interesting that my tolerance did not change when i substituted phenibut with mulungu so there has to be some sort if cross tolerance.

 

[swilow]

Mulungu is pretty good, actually. I tried it out recently and have since run out. It's kinda like kava but a lot more effective IMO. Also a heavier body feeling.

Without wanting to hijack the thread, how do you consume mulungu? Are you making a tea?

 

[Mycophile]

indeed. what i noticed was that its much more effective when you swallow the whole bark instead of making into a tea. another interesting aproach would to make a tintcture with alcohol but this would probably take weeks. whats also interesting that my tolerance did not change when i substituted phenibut with mulungu so there has to be some sort if cross tolerance.

I have some Mulungu I bought probably over a year ago and I never really tried it in the proper way I don't think.

I remember I smoked some and I maybe vaped some and got a mild buzz but I don't know if that's how you are supposed to use it.

I'll second Swillow's question: when you swallow it do you just do a toss n' wash with some water or make tea or use some other method?

And do you think it's the kind of stuff that might not have gone bad in probably over a year (maybe even over 2 years...) in a package, or do you think it has probably gone bad and lost its' effectiveness by now?

 

[murx12]

I had some year old mulungu from gaiana which was so old that label was bleached and it was the best mulungu had i've so far so i would say it doesnt lose much effectiveness over time .
And the best way to consume it is as i mentioned before.
You grind or pulverize it if it isnt already. then you make sure there arent any big parts left with a sieve for example. then you put may be put it in some boliing water if you want to make sure its sterile and then drink it with the powder only then its really effective. the difference between consuming a strained tea and swallowing the powder itself is immense. i guess hot water is not good at extracting mulungus alkaloids. but beware mulungu has hepatixic potential.
oh and with smoking you'll only fuck up your lungs and you cant smoke 5g anyways.

 

[Xorkoth]

Without wanting to hijack the thread, how do you consume mulungu? Are you making a tea?

I was reading about it and it seems that to actually extract the compounds from it, you need to boil the tea for a long time and/or perhaps extract with other reagents. So what I did was grind it up finely (mine came that way) and just toss and wash. 2 tablespoons was my dose, but start lower. It doesn't taste bad, the powder was kinda scratchy. Might make i easier to get down to pour hot water over it, stir it up, then drink. It produces anxiolysis and physical sedation, and when I increased my dosage to 3 tablespoons, and interesting buzzing/humming feeling through my head and body, and more vivid dreams.

 

[Mycophile]

I had some year old mulungu from gaiana which was so old that label was bleached and it was the best mulungu had i've so far so i would say it doesnt lose much effectiveness over time .
And the best way to consume it is as i mentioned before.
You grind or pulverize it if it isnt already. then you make sure there arent any big parts left with a sieve for example. then you put may be put it in some boliing water if you want to make sure its sterile and then drink it with the powder only then its really effective. the difference between consuming a strained tea and swallowing the powder itself is immense. i guess hot water is not good at extracting mulungus alkaloids. but beware mulungu has hepatixic potential.
oh and with smoking you'll only fuck up your lungs and you cant smoke 5g anyways.

Wait, I'm confused: you said to put the Mulungu in boiling water but then that you don't think the hot water is good for extracting the alkaloids so why is that a good idea?

Are you saying that WITHOUT removing the powder from the water that then if you drink it that way it's ok?

Also, how many grams would you boil in the water and how much would you drink at once, how long would you boil it?

Would you put a certain amount in the water first, then bring it to boiling and maybe simmer for a while, then allow it to cool and strain it and drink it?

Also, at what point are you risking liver damage?

I don't have much but would be careful to avoid over use.

Also, how long do you think the high usually lasts?

Thanks

 

[Mycophile]

I was reading about it and it seems that to actually extract the compounds from it, you need to boil the tea for a long time and/or perhaps extract with other reagents. So what I did was grind it up finely (mine came that way) and just toss and wash. 2 tablespoons was my dose, but start lower. It doesn't taste bad, the powder was kinda scratchy. Might make i easier to get down to pour hot water over it, stir it up, then drink. It produces anxiolysis and physical sedation, and when I increased my dosage to 3 tablespoons, and interesting buzzing/humming feeling through my head and body, and more vivid dreams.

Wait, first you say that to extract the compounds you need to bowl it but then you say you didn't do that and just did a quick toss and wash and got good effects, so do you think I need to boil it or can just toss and wash and simply use some water to wash it down my throat off of a teaspoon like I do with Kratom?

You say you measured in tablespoons but did you ever weigh it out and if so, what was your best dose?

I always weigh everything I ingest for the most part.

And how long did the high last?

 

[Mycophile]

I'm on Phenibut for the first time in a long time (about 2,200mgs along with some Kratom and Dexadrine, I have a HIGH tolerance for this stuff) and feeling pretty good.

I don't use Phenibut often at all, never more than twice a week MAX but usually not more than once or twice a month and with all the warnings of how bad the WD from the stuff can be I really don't understand how anyone can allow themselves to take enough to get WD or get addicted.

I mean as a fellow addict LOL, I OBVIOUSLY understand the desire to take way too many drugs and way more of certain drugs than I should, but when it comes to something like Phenibut/F-Phenibut where using too much causes SERIOUS SERIOUS HORRIBLE WD (especially considering that doctors don't even really understand it or how to help people with it)....I am just WAY too scared to abuse it to that extent.

I can honestly say that of all the drugs I've done it's the one which I've been most scared to overuse from all the stories I've read on here which have thankfully ensured that I will NEVER allow addiction to it to happen.

Actually, for the past year and a half I had only used Fluro-Phenibut when I had the desire because I had enough it lasted so long, and it was definitely better and stronger than regular Phenibut, but it finally ran out and now the only vendor I know who sells it and who sold it to me before will not sell to me unless I can produce credentials showing I'm a scientist, which obviously I am not hahaha, so I guess it's back to just using regular Phenibut when I have the urge, which again, is not often.

I am pretty surprised cause they never asked for my credentials before, but maybe the laws got stricter in the past year and a half.

I am also surprised because I tend to guess that the majority of companies that sell RCs are probably usually selling them to recreational users as I just have a hard time believing that these companies make enough money to support themselves off of selling their products exclusively to scientists who are doing research and I bet a lot of them just want to make money like any other company and probably often skirt around the laws themselves, but obviously some are legit and will abide by them.

I mean sure, we all SAY that they are only for research, but how many scientists really order RCs that frequently to study them?

However, this company sells other nootropics that are not RCs so most likely they make enough $ from selling those and then enforce the rules with the RCs they have because the laws have probably gotten stricter.

It annoys me but I can't blame them.

While we don't know as much about F-Phenibut as regular Phenibut, from having used both many times I can honestly say that IMO F-Phenibut is pretty much superior in almost every way, other than it being a bit easier to take too much because it is so strong, but again, that's on the user.

Still, they pretty much feel like the same drug, it's just that F-Phenibut kicks in much faster and requires a MUCH lower dosage.

Overall they aren't all that different IMO but I still prefer F-Phenibut.

 

[murx12]

Wait, I'm confused: you said to put the Mulungu in boiling water but then that you don't think the hot water is good for extracting the alkaloids so why is that a good idea?

Are you saying that WITHOUT removing the powder from the water that then if you drink it that way it's ok?

Also, how many grams would you boil in the water and how much would you drink at once, how long would you boil it?

Would you put a certain amount in the water first, then bring it to boiling and maybe simmer for a while, then allow it to cool and strain it and drink it?

Also, at what point are you risking liver damage?

I don't have much but would be careful to avoid over use.

Also, how long do you think the high usually lasts?

Thanks

Hey i think the only effective way to make a mulungu extract is with alcohol but that will take a lot of time (weeks or months). Toss and wash is to dangerous because you could swallow big pieces of bark which can damage your intestines. so the best way to consume it is to mix with a liquid (dosage 2-5g depending on potency) maybe boiling water if you want to sterilize it and the just drink it.

how does f-phenibut differ from normal phenibut? is it just stronger or also more euphoric?
oh and to go back to the subject of the thread im on 6-8 g phenibut a day for months right now and i hope some diazepam will help. does anyone have experience managing phenibut wds with diazepam?

 

[Xorkoth]

Personally I find f-phenibut to be quite a different drug, I don't find them too similar. f-phenibut lasts way shorter and comes on way quicker but that's minor. I find that f-phenibut feels more GHB-like in its physical effects (but not its mental effects) and has substantially less euphoria than phenibut. It's more intoxicating. It also reminds me of baclofen whereas phenibut doesn't. f-phenibut is more sedating than phenibut. I find it doesn't have the same magic as phenibut. I got it once, never will again as I much prefer phenibut.

 

[Mycophile]

Hey i think the only effective way to make a mulungu extract is with alcohol but that will take a lot of time (weeks or months). Toss and wash is to dangerous because you could swallow big pieces of bark which can damage your intestines. so the best way to consume it is to mix with a liquid (dosage 2-5g depending on potency) maybe boiling water if you want to sterilize it and the just drink it.

how does f-phenibut differ from normal phenibut? is it just stronger or also more euphoric?
oh and to go back to the subject of the thread im on 6-8 g phenibut a day for months right now and i hope some diazepam will help. does anyone have experience managing phenibut wds with diazepam?

Ok, so why did you bring up the idea of making a mulungu extract in the first place if it is so easy to just mix it with water and drink it?

Do you need to steep the Mulungu in boiling water for a while, or is that just to steralize it, and can you just stir up some Mulungu in a glass of water, maybe even cold water, sift it through a strainer to get rid of chunks, and just down it?

If so I will try it at some point.

F-Phenibut is honestly a real lot like regular Phenibut (both HCL and FFA, which I think are identical except for taste) in most ways. I think they pretty close to the same drug but F-Phenibut is just like literally 4-6 times stronger in terms of the amount you need to get high and also kicks in a lot faster.

Like personally I can handle a lot of both F-Phenibut and regular Phenibut, and my sweet spot for regular Phenibut for getting high and having anxiety relief and feeling relaxed but slightly stimulated without actually being TOO sedated, is probably somewhere around 3,200 milligrams give or take, not more than 3,400 as then I'll be too sedated, but doses in the 2,000s....even the high 2,000s will get me high but not as much as I want and they will kind of give me an edgy and sometimes unpleasant stimulation that happens less with just a slightly higher dosage, and any dose below like 1,700mgs I won't even feel barely at all.

On the other hand, my sweet spot for F-Phenibut is around 600mgs, with 800 sometimes being nice but it will also have a heavy but not usually too heavy sedation, (much like 3,400mgs of Phenibut), and anything less than 400mgs I will barely feel at all.....so by those standards....seems like F-Phenibut is approximately 5-6 times stronger.

It also kicks in faster, but not SO much faster IMO at least for my own personal body chemistry.

I did regular Phenibut again over the weekend for the 1st time in 2 years since I had F-Phenibut, and I had remember it taking about 2 hours to kick in, but now it is only taking me about 90 minutes, whereas F-Phenibut takes about an hour for peak effects but can usually be felt in 45 mins, so yeah, for some people regular Phenibut could take twice as long or a little more than that to kick in.

F-Phenibut also gives me crazy lucid dreams that regular Phenibut doesn't give me, but regular Phenibut gives me more of a pleasant after glow the next day whereas F-Phenibut often leaves me tired the next day, probably just cause it is so damn strong, and probably the biggest difference other than dosage is that FOR ME F-Phenibut lasts WAAAY longer.

I feel like regular Phenibut lasts like maybe 14 hours, 12 minimum but 16 MAX....whereas honestly for me F-Phenibut lasts AT LEAST 24 hours when I take doses of 400mgs or higher (which I always do)...probably like about 30 hours or something.

But otherwise, they feel very similar.

Dude: You have been taking SIX to EIGHT grams of Phenibut daily for months??

I am sure you know that is REALLY high...

May I ask why/how you allowed yourself to get into that kind of excessive usage??

I only rarely take Phenibut/F-Phenibut.

I almost never allow myself to take either more than 2 days a week, and that's absolute max. I usually don't even take Phenibut/F-Phenibut more than once or twice a month, sometimes not even.

It's a lot of fun so I can understand why, and helps with anxiety, but I am WAAYY too scared of WD to allow myself to use more than that.

I am sure people on here will have advice on how to get off of it but obviously you will need to be EXTREMELY careful and I really don't know how to do it. It sucks too cause doctors don't know much about it so if you have to explain it to them that could be hard...


I was recently reading a thread where someone was saying to taper down slowly and that then they suggested at a certain point to jump off and use either Gabapentin or Lyrica for the WD, and that they though that Gabapentin was the best thing for it, but I really don't know.

Good luck with that and be extremely careful cause that can be dangerous.

 

[Mycophile]

Personally I find f-phenibut to be quite a different drug, I don't find them too similar. f-phenibut lasts way shorter and comes on way quicker but that's minor. I find that f-phenibut feels more GHB-like in its physical effects (but not its mental effects) and has substantially less euphoria than phenibut. It's more intoxicating. It also reminds me of baclofen whereas phenibut doesn't. f-phenibut is more sedating than phenibut. I find it doesn't have the same magic as phenibut. I got it once, never will again as I much prefer phenibut.

Interesting.

We don't seem to have the same experience overall with F-Phenibut as while I feel there are SOME significant differences, I feel like for me they are much more similar drugs than different

I agree that F-Phenibut is much more sedating. I have never taken GHB so I can't compare either to that.

I don't know that I'd agree F-Phenibut is less euphoric, but then I am not quite sure about how you are using the terms "euphoric" vs "intoxicating".

I will agree that F-Phenibut is more intoxicating like it knocks you on your ass more, but I think I would also say it is more euphoric for me, though not by necessarily all that much as at the right doses regular Phenibut is also extremely euphoric.

I have also never done Baclofen so I can't compare there, but for me I kind of feel like they have a lot of similarities and not that many differences, and I have preferred F-Phenibut to Phenibut unlike you.

What I think is better for me with Phenibut is that with F-Phenibut I have a very specific dose range to get any good effects at all. I need a lot more of both drugs than many would and somehow have naturally a high tolerance, and my sweet spot with F-Phenibut is around 600mgs, with 800 being the highest dose I can enjoy without it being too sedating to be fun, but less than 400mgs I can barely feel at all.

On the other hand, my sweet spot for Phenibut is around 3,200mgs, no higher than 3,400 due to sedation, but less than 3,000, while still very enjoyable, doesn't pack quite as much punch as I want, but I still find doses in the mid to upper 2000s, like 2,600--2,800 to be very enjoyable, but anything less than 1,700mgs I can't even feel.

So with regular Phenibut I have a large dose range and based on whether I want more sedation or more stimulation, better sleep vs being knocked out, I have different doses to choose from so it's more useful, whereas if I want to feel and enjoy F-Phenibut at all I am basically going to have to take an amount that is going to sedate me one way or another and it's just a matter if it knocks me out too much to be enjoyable.

I think even though I guess I may have lost my connection for F-Phenibut (if this dealer is the only one who sells it) that using regular Phenibut instead will be fine for me, especially since I really don't use either more than like a few times a month anyway.

 

[CottonAndGuns]

Ah, I'd have to order it online so I figured I'll just use alcohol. Not the best method but probably my best option at this point.

Hello! So. More to my daft story;
Initially my doc was super cool and said to "take as many gabapentin as you need to stop the phenibut withdrawals but no more than 2000mg in a day". So I took 2000mg for a few days and found that stopped the withdrawals. But when it came to getting a repeat it's as if our initial consultation didn't matter any more and the "take 1 100mg tablet 3 times a day" that was printed on the prescription was all that mattered. Bleh. But I argued a bit more and got another prescription. BUT YEAH so I quoted you because I was having a few shots of spirits once a day for some days. I found it made me tired/chilled out to the point where I didn't care I was on an opioid reduction or out of gabapentin. I also find a couple of shots gives me a high that I was getting/craving during my opioid abuse.

Gabapentin produces withdrawals too if you do it daily for too long. I'd be really careful. Pregabalin has worse withdrawals but gabapentin is similar.

I do agree. But. I've come off Pregabalin in the past with zero side effects, and other times it was bad enough I had to use gabapentin to taper with. However even when it came to dropping off the gabapentin dose it was no problem at all.

(I just realised that its been weeks since my last phenibut. I don't have any but I can imagine that if I did it'd give me that first-time euphoria again.)

So yeah. Now nearly 2 weeks on bupe. taking random amounts of gabapentin to cover my phenibut withdrawals. Things are okay. They want to put me in rehab pretty soon though. Genuinely looking forward to that. Oh and I did run out of gabapentin and wasn't finished with my phenibut withdrawals - that "apocalyptic" mood stuff came back. I wanted to hurt myself in a way that would land me in hospital. Of course I didn't do anything like that. But later that day I got a new gabapentin script and 3 hours after taking them everything went extremely back to normal in a great way.

 

[murx12]

Hey does anyone know how long it takes für phenibut WD to kick in fully? i've been on a huge amount (15g a day) and its 24h since i've taken my last dose and i have the feeling theres yet more to come. oh and i have some benzos für dosing down.

 

[Xorkoth]

Oh god that's massive. For me, I don't even begin to feel withdrawal until about 36 hours in. Phenibut lasts more than 24 hours for me. It will kick in fully within a few days, maybe even a week. The benzos will help but will not cover it all up. The good news is phenibut withdrawal is not as dangerous as benzo withdrawal and in my experience it lasts a little shorter too, but by shorter, I mean 2-3 weeks instead of a month. You are in for some serious pain. You might want to consider tapering if that's possible for you.

I have never been on NEARLY as much as you, but when I was doing 3 grams per day, on the second day without the withdrawals started and they lasted a couple of weeks. It consisted of a lot of difficulty sleeping and a lot of anxiety. I had transient bouts of anxiety (like my thought process suddenly becoming uncontrollably anxious until I caught myself and calmed down) for a month or so. It took a while to feel back to normal all the way.

Don't take benzos for too many days in a row because benzo addiction is worse than phenibut addiction. I would get some baclofen if you can, take that daily for a week or 2 and stop it, you'll be past the worst of the withdrawals and not pick up much or any dependence on baclofen, then you can take benzos for sleep and just deal with it (don't take benzos for more than a week straight without taking time off). It's not that bad once you're past the peak of it, at least in my experience, physically it's not bad, but there is a lot of anxiety and sleep is really difficult (on the upside, some of the most incredible and vivid dreams I've ever had were during phenibut withdrawal).

But yeah, sad to tell you that the withdrawals really haven't even started yet after 24 hours...

I really don't understand how anyone can allow themselves to take enough to get WD or get addicted.

I mean as a fellow addict LOL, I OBVIOUSLY understand the desire to take way too many drugs and way more of certain drugs than I should, but when it comes to something like Phenibut/F-Phenibut where using too much causes SERIOUS SERIOUS HORRIBLE WD (especially considering that doctors don't even really understand it or how to help people with it)....I am just WAY too scared to abuse it to that extent.

Well why does anyone use addictive drugs often enough to get addicted? They're seductive and the human brain has a powerful ability to rationalize stupid behavior for short-term rewards.

Phenibut has pretty gnarly withdrawals but it's not the worst thing out there. Benzos are worse for sure. The worst withdrawals I've felt have been from opiates, not from phenibut (I've never withdrawn from benzos, it just seems to me that they're worse/more dangerous/longer lasting).

 

[Mycophile]

Oh god that's massive. For me, I don't even begin to feel withdrawal until about 36 hours in. Phenibut lasts more than 24 hours for me. It will kick in fully within a few days, maybe even a week. The benzos will help but will not cover it all up. The good news is phenibut withdrawal is not as dangerous as benzo withdrawal and in my experience it lasts a little shorter too, but by shorter, I mean 2-3 weeks instead of a month. You are in for some serious pain. You might want to consider tapering if that's possible for you.

I have never been on NEARLY as much as you, but when I was doing 3 grams per day, on the second day without the withdrawals started and they lasted a couple of weeks. It consisted of a lot of difficulty sleeping and a lot of anxiety. I had transient bouts of anxiety (like my thought process suddenly becoming uncontrollably anxious until I caught myself and calmed down) for a month or so. It took a while to feel back to normal all the way.

Don't take benzos for too many days in a row because benzo addiction is worse than phenibut addiction. I would get some baclofen if you can, take that daily for a week or 2 and stop it, you'll be past the worst of the withdrawals and not pick up much or any dependence on baclofen, then you can take benzos for sleep and just deal with it (don't take benzos for more than a week straight without taking time off). It's not that bad once you're past the peak of it, at least in my experience, physically it's not bad, but there is a lot of anxiety and sleep is really difficult (on the upside, some of the most incredible and vivid dreams I've ever had were during phenibut withdrawal).

But yeah, sad to tell you that the withdrawals really haven't even started yet after 24 hours...



Well why does anyone use addictive drugs often enough to get addicted? They're seductive and the human brain has a powerful ability to rationalize stupid behavior for short-term rewards.

Phenibut has pretty gnarly withdrawals but it's not the worst thing out there. Benzos are worse for sure. The worst withdrawals I've felt have been from opiates, not from phenibut (I've never withdrawn from benzos, it just seems to me that they're worse/more dangerous/longer lasting).

Well, I don't know whether or not Phenibut WD/addiction is worse than benzo WD/addiction, but I have been on Klonopin daily for 15 years other than 9 months off when I tried to stop, and I got VERY lucky and even without a proper taper I didn't get any withdrawal and I don't know why.

But me personally, from reading the accounts of Phenibut WD, and with my own experiences with Klonopin being so managable for me personally, I would be much more concerned with Phenibut WD/addiction.

I mean, both are GABA drugs so in theory both could lead to seizures or even death under certain circumstances, but when I went to the hospital to get off Klonopin about 5 years back they told me that 1.5mgs (my daily dose) would not be enough to cause death even if I was suddenly taken off, but that it could lead to seizures.

I never had any WD symptoms though and I don't know why but was lucky.

I personally don't like how so many people attack benzo users for their usage because people like me who have been prescribed them for severe anxiety have good reasons to use them and even though I wish I wasn't on Klonopin I need it, and I feel like a lot of people try to guilt me and tell me over and over how dangerous it is, when in reality I have never really had bad effects from it.

Everyone says "not to take benzos daily", but I've taken Klonopin every day for years without bad effects that I am aware of other than some sedation. I know it's better not to, but I need it.

I know that I'd like to get off it if I could, but for now I can't, but I still maintain caution not to get dependent on Phenibut.

 

[Mycophile]

Oh god that's massive. For me, I don't even begin to feel withdrawal until about 36 hours in. Phenibut lasts more than 24 hours for me. It will kick in fully within a few days, maybe even a week. The benzos will help but will not cover it all up. The good news is phenibut withdrawal is not as dangerous as benzo withdrawal and in my experience it lasts a little shorter too, but by shorter, I mean 2-3 weeks instead of a month. You are in for some serious pain. You might want to consider tapering if that's possible for you.

I have never been on NEARLY as much as you, but when I was doing 3 grams per day, on the second day without the withdrawals started and they lasted a couple of weeks. It consisted of a lot of difficulty sleeping and a lot of anxiety. I had transient bouts of anxiety (like my thought process suddenly becoming uncontrollably anxious until I caught myself and calmed down) for a month or so. It took a while to feel back to normal all the way.

Don't take benzos for too many days in a row because benzo addiction is worse than phenibut addiction. I would get some baclofen if you can, take that daily for a week or 2 and stop it, you'll be past the worst of the withdrawals and not pick up much or any dependence on baclofen, then you can take benzos for sleep and just deal with it (don't take benzos for more than a week straight without taking time off). It's not that bad once you're past the peak of it, at least in my experience, physically it's not bad, but there is a lot of anxiety and sleep is really difficult (on the upside, some of the most incredible and vivid dreams I've ever had were during phenibut withdrawal).

But yeah, sad to tell you that the withdrawals really haven't even started yet after 24 hours...



Well why does anyone use addictive drugs often enough to get addicted? They're seductive and the human brain has a powerful ability to rationalize stupid behavior for short-term rewards.

Phenibut has pretty gnarly withdrawals but it's not the worst thing out there. Benzos are worse for sure. The worst withdrawals I've felt have been from opiates, not from phenibut (I've never withdrawn from benzos, it just seems to me that they're worse/more dangerous/longer lasting).

@Xorkoth plus, I feel there's a pretty big difference between being told by doctors (even though I know it's not common practice) that they are willing to prescribe you benzos daily, even for years, so long as you take them as prescribed and see them monthly VS deciding you are going to just buy Phenibut and take it regularly, even after hearing about all the horror stories on this forum and others, and knowing that Phenibut is not well understood in the western world and that you won't have a clear path out if you end up dependent.

I had doctors who knew the amount of Klonopin I took daily and who I could call if I had issues but Phenibut is just another story. I like it a lot, but I have never heard of stories of hearing voices for days on end and psychotic breaks from benzos like I have from Phenibut, and I'd know where to turn if I had issues with my Klonopin.

I guess I feel like there is a "war on benzos", both on this forum and others, where everyone is told that taking benzos daily is the worse thing that can ever happen to someone, even though I have done it for years and never had WD.

I mean, I'm drunk so I might be a bit feisty, but I have had people tell me that being dependent on 1.5mgs of Klonopin daily (yes, EVEN FOR YEARS) is worse than just buying heroin off the street and taking it on your own just because benzo WD can IN THE WORST CIRCUMSTANCES lead to death, whereas opioid withdrawal doesn't.

Well, the flip side of that is that I bet anything if you did a study on how many people die from over doses of ONLY benzos per year (meaning no alcohol, no opioids, NOTHING but the benzo) vs just heroin per year (though it might have Fentanyl in it) that there will be an overwhelming amount more of overdose deaths per year from heroin.

I really don't feel that low to moderate dose benzo dependence is a horrible thing. I think it has it's dangers but that they are more subtle in nature like grogginess and irritability that builds up slowly over years which yes, I have noticed some of, which are some reasons I want to cut down.

It's to be avoided surely, but there are worse situations to be in, and from what I have read of some of the threads on this forum where people took like 10 grams of Phenibut a day for 6 months the situation was WAY WAY worse than my situation from taking 1.5mgs of Klonopin daily for 15 years.

Some of those people went through prolonged periods of psychosis and insomnia for weeks with hallucinations, whereas I've had none of that from just taking my 1.5mgs of Klonopin daily and forgetting about it.

I've used too much of many substances, but after reading certain posters threads about their nightmare experiences with phenibut it does kind of make me wonder how anyone can allow themselves to get that deep with it....aside from if they are going through really bad times which then, yes, I kind of understand how anyone could go too far in the wrong state of mind.

 

[murx12]

the thing with phenibut is people react very differently to it. for some the tolerance rises extremely fast and the WD are absolutely horrible while for others tolerance doesnt rise as fast and wds arent so bad. i usually belonged to the latter group but with taking mirtazapine this changed at least the rise of the tolerance. but i think my wds wont be so bad as described by others because they werent as bad before. im now 48 hours in and it sucks but is managable. but i also have benzos as i said which i will use to taper down.

 

[Xorkoth]

That is true, I'm in the camp that has been able to use it regularly for years without increasing my dose and I always get the same effects. Not daily though, daily use isn't sustainable for anyone.

@Mycophile yeah benzos are nearly impossible to die from in overdose so in that sense opiates are way more dangerous, but from a lot of people I've heard that benzo withdrawal is the worst withdrawal from long-term chronic use. You're lucky you can take 1.5mg of clonazepam every day and don't experience physical dependence because I know people who've been on less for years and had a HELL of a time getting off. So I always try to suggest to people to not take them daily for longer than a week or maybe 2 weeks. Maybe they're like you and can take them daily, or maybe they're like a lot of other people and they'll end up getting themselves into something much worse. Various people in the TDS forum used benzos to try to get off of opiates and ended up struggling for years with benzos and wishing they'd just cold-turkeyed opiates, would have been way better for them. I have also never heard of anyone seizing from phenibut, whereas with benzos (and alcohol, and most other GABAergics), it's a real risk. I consider it good HR advice to suggest to someone to not trade a phenibut addiction for a benzo addiction, when they mention they have tons of benzos to try to come off phenibut with.

 

[murx12]

there have been seizures described in Pregabalin WD. oddly enough phenibut overdoeses can also cause seizures and people in highly agitated states. ive seen reports were someone oding phenibut were treated with benzos and what not just to calm him down. as far as tolerance WD intensity its is safe to say that those people who experience the same with pregabalin will also experience it with phenibut. oddly enough these groups of people are not the same that tend to be benzo addicts (there were scientific studies with former benzo addicts made in that regard) which leads to the conclusion that the antiglutamergic action is the culprit here. and apparently the group of people that are so ultra sensitive to the glutamergic changes is so small that they somehow maganged to preclude them from their initial studies. thats Pfizer for ya