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any schizophrenics have exp. with DMT?

yaesutom

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A good friend of mine is in town for a few weeks. He is 35, and just in the last year he went on a meth binge for a few days at least, which seemed to trigger the typical paranoid schizophrenia. Its wierd because he's not in his early 20's - never had any problem before and it was never psychedelics, it was the meth and being awake.

He's currently on an anti-psychotic, geodon/ziprasidone. Overall he's doing great, I asked him about the voices in his head, its mostly just around white noise and not that often anymore. He told me tonight occasionally he'll see a rat or something run across the room that isn't there (also said he thinks the rat thing might be because during the meth binge he lived in a place with a rat problem).

Now, I don't just guess - i kinda expect, a small toke of DMT, if it happens to be when he hears any voices, they will stop. I'll be suprised if it doesn't actually. I have felt the most 'schizo' when i have been up for too long one weekend partying, and someone offered lines of MDA to everyone. Everyone who snorted some MDA was getting the "shadow people", voices, where it is like there are people around you but no one is there, voices etc.

I remember we'd just toke a little DMT once in a while, and *poof* gone. All the voices, shadow people, gone, straight sober.

He does want to try smoking some, small hit first etc. I'm wondering if anyone else has symptoms like he does now like voices in his head etc. They used to be bad - people would have to tell him, tell the voices fuck you haha, then he said he was asking one of the female voices out on a date (he had 4 voices, different personalities kinda). Anyway he's doing good right now (although he's less animated than his normal self, almost looks like his jaw/mouth doesn't move like normal I don't know if its the anti-psychotic or what) - he ignores the voices and they are rarely there/in the background/etc.

Anyone with schizophrena, voices, every try DMT? low dose, high dose?

One of my other friends said he's "borderline schizophrenia" and said smoking DMT totally calmed his mind - no voices etc, which doesn't suprise me because i've experimented with very low to high doses of DMT quite a bit.
 

Bal0n

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if the voices are ignorable right now, why woulde he take the risk of making them worse, by smoking DMT?
 

subdefy

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Are you prepared to accept the consequences of his schitzophrenia going into a full blown delusional/psychotic episode and potentially make it worse in the long-term?
 

komcaz51

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Using DMT to calm a schizophrenic...Thats a new one to me.:\
 

CatfishRivers

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zophen said:
I've heard anti-psychotic drugs can effect the jaw movement, though i thought it was supposed to make people sort of oscillate their jaw continuously.
Zophen
tardive diskenesia is what you are probably refering to, and it can be quite troublesome to some folks with it. It is more than just the jaw, it is the whole mouth, toungue, face, fingers, hands, pretty much anywhere i think. I have seen a bunch of peolpe with this codition, and cogentin seems to help a bit but mostly it doesn't after a while...

sad stuff.


The problem with the dmt to get rid of voices, is when the dmt wears off the voices come back...and you can't be smoking dmt all the time ;) They need to develope a dmt patch...now that might help.

The nurse at the job I just quit was telling me recently that there is going to be a push in the pharmaceutical industry for maoi's but as patches and inhalers to bypass the gut. Interesting stuff...
 

nanobrain

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DMT for paranoid schizophrenia - there is a certain twisted clarity to the logic.

how debilitating / manifetsed is the psychosis? is he ever a danger to himself / others? is he alot bigger / stronger than you? all things to consider.

i'd start very low, go slow, and dont push past anxiolytic doses.
 
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jonah_222

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i had ayahuasca before i ever developed schizophrenia. Didnt seem to bother me. although i'm sure that's of no use to you.

there was a study somewhere with schizophrenics injected with DMT, but i cant seem to come up with anything at the moment... sorry.

Methamphetamine does seem to be the one that really causes the shit to blow up, isnt it? Damned shame. Schizophrenia sucks.

i dont have any advice, but please: post your results for us.

-j.
 

Acidfiend

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Dude this is a BAD idea. THere is research that suggests that schizophrenia is actually CAUSED by endongenous DMT. Think about it, smoke a fat rip of DMT and all of a sudden you are in a dimention of pure consciousness and foregin beings want to communicate with you. That is like a full blown case of catatonic schizophrenia.
 

concept

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your freind may be predosed to schiz or meth can cause you to have meth pychosis which is as similiar as you will get with out having it. If its just has meth pychosis like my friend then it is safer and may help. My friend did trips, he was fine and he used to talk to shadow people but they called it meth pyhcosis and gave him trazodone for 6month
 

nanobrain

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how did it go?

it makes perfect sense from a homeopathic perspective - or if you are a Russian, "you drive a wedge out with another wedge, òîâàðèù!"
 
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Morrison's Lament

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The homeopathic perspective being a load of bullshit, and Russia having one of the highest instances of suicide and serious mental illness in the world, I'd advise against this =D

--- G.
 

yaesutom

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Heh, i knew i'd get mostly "don't do it!" responses :).

I found one of the PDF files online at,
http://frip.dk/ashoka/endogenous anxiolytic DMT.pdf


Soon after the discovery of endogenous DMT in
humans, psychiatric researchers began to report
correlations between increased levels of DMT in
human fluids and schizophrenia [11–15]. It was
suggested that excess DMT biosynthesis may promote
psychotic symptoms. This proposal (which
is sometimes known as the ‘‘transmethylation
hypothesis,’’ because it involves methylated
amines) attracted interest in the 1960s and
1970s. In more recent years, the transmethylation
hypothesis has been eclipsed by the dopamine
hypothesis of schizophrenia, wherein psychotic
symptoms are related to excessive activity in certain
dopaminergic circuits in the brain. Recent
biochemical and genetic characterization of a
new family of receptors, the trace amine (TA)
receptors, found in mammalian central and
peripheral nervous tissues, has renewed interest
in a potential role for trace amines in psychosis
[16]. It is believed that tryptamine, a necessary
metabolic precursor to DMT, can act as a neurotransmitter
at the TA receptor [16]. As DMT also
shows activity at the TA receptor [17], endogenous
DMT may function as a neurotransmitter in
the TA system. Ten years ago, a series of doubleblind,
placebo-controlled studies of DMT in humans
included analysis of biological responses
(neuroendocrine, autonomic and cardiovascular)
as well as the subjective effects [18,19]. In these
studies, administration of a non-hallucinogenic
dose of DMT (0.05 mg/kg) produced a relaxed
and comfortable mental state in many subjects.
We propose that the main effect of endogenous
DMT may resemble low-dose, non-hallucinogenic
DMT administration, providing a homeostatic
response to alleviate, rather than promote,
psychotic symptoms.
I've got Strassman's book, although its nice to have research on it, I don't really agree with a lot of what he proposes. People often associate DMT and dreaming, i'd think actually while asleep you could possibly have LESS DMT, lowish doses of DMT seem to increase vividness/fluidness/clarity, people often say its like waking up from a dream, "normal" life being like a dream (less vivid).

Although i've only experienced the effects of staying awake for too long once (i mean to where i'd see/hear shit, was pretty damn freaky), maybe twice being the night I was talking about after snorting some MDA / lack of sleep although not as bad, a small toke of DMT - SMALL TOKE, killed all of it. Really, its like we were feeling a little psychotic, not thinking right, cracked out, the voices/shadow people stuff was downright distracting and unpleasant, a tiny toke of DMT brought me back to normal (we kept toking it til we went to sleep, LOW doses) completely. I wouldn't doubt maybe its partly caused by lack of DMT,

He smokes pot, and craves nicotine (that article mentions something about schizophrenics and nicotine), I think he's even tripped on 2C-I out where he lives at least once.

how debilitating / manifetsed is the psychosis? is he ever a danger to himself / others? is he alot bigger / stronger than you? all things to consider.

i'd start very low, go slow, and dont push past anxiolytic doses.
He's fine now, he's himself just a little zombied out from the anti-psychotic (it sucks, i mean I can tell how much his movements and emotions are limited). Yes low doses, only pure DMT also.

But check out that PDF file if you want its interesting, there's another one I printed out but I can't find the file (if i saved it).
 

tmtm

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I must have screwed up. I spent a half an hour writing about a friend and his story of how dmt triggered scizophrenia and the horrible experiences I have wittnessed with him and it didnt post. Long story short, don't expect dmt to make things better, maybee much worse but no better.
 

nanobrain

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look, i think most of you guys are missing the point.

as i understand , Tom is talking about anxiolitic doses - these are sub-breakthrough, not ego shredding or even psychedelic.

at this level, i also find the effects centering, helping get rid of most peripheral static / anxiety.

and the disorder exists already, ie its not a hidden hazard.

my asbestos suit is lined with flame retardant.
 

yaesutom

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I must have screwed up. I spent a half an hour writing about a friend and his story of how dmt triggered scizophrenia and the horrible experiences I have wittnessed with him and it didnt post. Long story short, don't expect dmt to make things better, maybee much worse but no better.
Was it DMT or 5-MeO-DMT? and what kind of doses? I know it sucks when your typing something long then the computer fucks up on ya

I think most of the DMT extract that people have used, for the most part.. isn't pure DMT. If its coming from mimosa root bark, i've had some samples analysed and its very hard to get the beta carbolines out - and they are VERY psychoactive, at much smaller doses than DMT, and they change the experience SO much. When I get pure DMT the difference is incredible, no clouded thoughts.. no 'shit' from the other .. shit in mimosa.
 

tmtm

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I am not sure of the source of his dmt. I was out of state when he made this final journey. I sure wish his family had let me know about the severity of his condition. I came back home on vacation and my best friend growing up asked me to go to the store with him and get a loaf of bread. Insanity ensued and more than eight hours later I returned home with some horrible bread that must have been been very important but I knew not why. Even after hours of preaching from what used to be one of the smartest people I ever knew. Imagine a genius that lost his train of thought half way through every sentance but continues on in another direction like he is making perfect sense and they get frustrated by others inability to follow. I cant believe that the dmv Michigan would allow someone like this to get a license. So very scary!
 

rm-rf

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subdefy said:
Are you prepared to accept the consequences of his schitzophrenia going into a full blown delusional/psychotic episode and potentially make it worse in the long-term?

dmt is a very powerful drug.
 

[nl]mdma

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I have felt the most 'schizo' when i have been up for too long one weekend partying, and someone offered lines of MDA to everyone. Everyone who snorted some MDA was getting the "shadow people", voices, where it is like there are people around you but no one is there, voices etc.

I remember we'd just toke a little DMT once in a while, and *poof* gone. All the voices, shadow people, gone, straight sober.
DMT may have had a direct blocking effect on MDA and thus have stopped the voices in your head (comparable to using speed when you're stoned or drunk), so I doubt paranoid schizophrenia will be 'cured' by DMT.
 

StagnantReaction

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The schizophrenic delusion, to me, appears to be when the brain functions in a alzheimer's-type dreaming where you float around in your own head and hallucinations appear, seemingly created from your mind.

And personally, I do believe DMT is the polar opposite. It opens your mind, enhances awareness, and your mind becomes focused.

This is very interesting.
 
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