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Health any schizophrenics have exp. with DMT?

Well.... if I were schizophrenic, and really wanted to try DMT, I would certainly only try it at super-low doses, as nanobrain recommends. By definition, I wouldn't seek to trip on it, since that could easily trigger a relapse into psychosis.

link to abstract mentioning possibly anxiolytic properties of DMT:

Pubmed link

But be careful. The stakes are pretty high. Remember what good doctors say: "first, do no harm". So, again, what nano said: Little, if any.
 
There is NO FUCKING WAY!! i would ever take DMT with someone i knew to have mental health problems. Be a good friend and tell him not to. He might never come back, is it really worth the rest of his life?
"You can turn your back on a friend but you can never turn your back on a drug"
But hey thats just my 2cents
 
WOW....WOW...WOW..

Tonight was a special night.. brought a 1/2g DMT over with my friend and some others, hung out. I didnt even realise he picked up the pipe and toked it, and he toked it BIG.

He got up and walked around, at first said i dont like this, then, later said this is the most beautiful thing i've ever seen.. then, afterwards, he said he's never felt this normal, in fact, he feels BETTER THAN HE EVER HAS. He hasn't felt himself since the start of the schizo period, and always has this 'feeling' in the back of his head - all the time - that the voices "could" come out, well thats feeling is gone.

He said it is like all the pieces of his mind are back together now..

One huge hit, *poof*. I'm very happy about this, for tonight and who knows how long he is 'cured' of "schizophrenia", it'll be interesting to see if this did the trick and its gone for good or just temporary, but I think smoking DMT whenever (if) it comes back instead of popping the awful "band-aid" anti-psychotics is a lot better.

If this goes well maybe he can wean off the anti-psychotic (which doesn't even stop the voices) eventually, and use psychedelic sessions etc, to 'cure' this thing for good.

Its been an incredible night...
 
^^^^^
Thats suprising, i would have thought a reverse action.
Well I guess thats good then :):)
 
Well maybe he's be cured for a while and get a worse episode after that , rebound like with alcohol and hppd.
 
" I think smoking DMT whenever (if) it comes back instead of popping the awful "band-aid" anti-psychotics is a lot better."

I'd be careful with weaning a schizophrenic off his/her antipsychotics, particularly when replacing the aforementioned with DMT. Don't get me wrong, i'm hopeful for your experiments. This sort of thing is too close to home not to have my interests piqued. It just seems to me like this has a big potential for disaster.

Let us know how your friend is doing. What antipsychotics was he on? How is he feeling days after?
 
Wow i mean, this blows my mind :).


He's taking.. cognentin.. something lke that, i am about to go pick him up in a few minutes - I asked him how he was doing (day later) , GREAT! he said he'll tell me more.. but this is just incredible.

It doesn't "suprise me", i expected 'symptoms' to go down, but, i did not expect him to say what he did last night!

Thing is, people with "schizophrenia" in this country, don't get 'cured' because all we do is put them on some horrible, damaging anti-psychotic, its awful. I will link it later but there is a good thread in Health Q&A about how schizophrenia "doesn't exist" - and , i totally totally agree with that.

I was reading an article on maps.org about childhood schizophrenia, about how its normal to walk into these centers and see young kids taking their shit and sliming it all over the walls etc. They used LSD, psilocybin, or both, and cured these kids, after just several sessions, this doesn't suprise me at all...

I'm very excited about this, and i will report any updates about him etc.. When he goes back home, i'm going to keep in close contact / make sure he has some DMT, and i'll tell him IMO I think he should only smoke DMT when if/any symptoms return etc. I don't think it would be a good idea to be smoking it all the time (heh, DMT, addictive shit hehehe) - but if used like a medicine wow, .. I will report back hopefully all good news! :)
 
yaesutom said:

Thing is, people with "schizophrenia" in this country, don't get 'cured' because all we do is put them on some horrible, damaging anti-psychotic, its awful. I will link it later but there is a good thread in Health Q&A about how schizophrenia "doesn't exist" - and , i totally totally agree with that.

I was reading an article on maps.org about childhood schizophrenia, about how its normal to walk into these centers and see young kids taking their shit and sliming it all over the walls etc. They used LSD, psilocybin, or both, and cured these kids, after just several sessions, this doesn't suprise me at all...

Oh come on! Schitzophrenia has been proven to exist why else would be still trying to find cures for these problems? People with years of education are currently in the field working on something that "doesn't exist" do you really think they would waste all that time to look at things that don't exist?

Next you'll be telling me depression, bipolar, ADD, and various other mental illnesses don't exist. Remember MAPS does have a biased perspective and you should get both sides of the equation before jumping to conclusions.
 
gloggawogga said:
Schizophrenia, IMHO, is at best a catch all phrase for a whole host of conditions that the mental health community really understands little about.

http://www.antipsychiatry.org/schizoph.htm

That site isn't funded by Scientologist is it?

It uses some pretty ridiculous "references" one being Against Therapy Jeffrey Masson, Ph.D., a psychoanalyst who goes on to say "all therapy is unneeded and long years of intensive psychological study are a waste of time." So in short that means psychiatry is a waste of time and therapy should be abolished and we should ignore the thousands who have gotten their life back on track due to the "evil" therapy.

Just because we don't fully know what schitzophrenia is doesn't mean it should be ruled out as a "myth."
 
^^^

Whoever funds the site has nothing to do with it. Nor does attacking the weakest reference weaken the points in the other references. Maybe the site wasn't good in making my point, so I'll try to make my point in a different way.

Just because we don't fully know what schitzophrenia is

We don't really know if its one disease or many diseases. Do we? There is no medical test for schizophrenia, just vague and subjective criteria and interpretations. There is no known organic cause, and it affects people very diversely.

it should be ruled out as a "myth."

I didn't say it should be ruled out as a "myth". I said it was a catch all phrase for a whole host of conditions mental health community really understands little about.
 
^ The reason I said that was because the paper you linked to said it. "Schizophrenia is one of the great myths of our time."
 
Well I would say it is a myth in a way if you think of it as just being one disease, but I don't deny that people diagnosed as "schizophrenic" have problems. I just don't think they all have the same problem. :\
 
Next you'll be telling me depression, bipolar, ADD, and various other mental illnesses don't exist.

Well, lol now that you brought it up, yes, in fact, they DON'T EXIST EITHER!

What is the definition of a mental illness TO YOU? Go ahead and copy this or that dictionary term but whats your own definition? What does it mean to you to be 'mentally ill'?

ADD/ADHD? Lets see, they used to call it disfunctional brain disorder (i'm too lazy to look the exact name up if thats wrong), or maybe minimal brain disfunction, whatever, then they split it up into two - attention deficit with or without hyperactivity. I think they have at least 6 versions of "ADD" nowadays, err wait, just a quick google search it looks like the "DSM-IV" says there's 3 subtypes, then one dude's opinion is that there are really 7, then this guy, that woman think's there's like 19, etc.

Whats the definition of schizophrenia? Well like gloggawogga said there's no test for it, just like AD/HD its all subjective. What it comes down to is, all these labels are just that - trying to catagorize everything, and the more time goes on the more subcatagory's there will be, i suppose at some infinity point all it will come down to is "you have the mental disorder of Your Name!".

What really matters though? I cannot understand especially in a friggin' PSYCHEDELIC DRUG forum, so many people so critical of this yet they do not know my friend personally, or me, and probably no where near as much experience with DMT as me (heh, i'm an addict). Whats the point of me even posting this? Well, if i hadn't thought DMT might help him (although i had no idea this much!) and would have done the 'normal thing' and just said oh well, damn, that sucks that you are a schizphrenic now, oh well, keep taking your Geodon and WORK FOR DA MAN!.
---------

From http://geodon.com/
What is schizophrenia?

Schizophrenia is a brain disorder that affects almost 2.2 million American adults (approximately 1 out of every 100). If you or someone you love has schizophrenia, treatment can help.

People with schizophrenia often have trouble thinking clearly or making decisions. They may have a hard time telling real life from fantasy. They may also find it a challenge to deal with other people. These can all be symptoms of schizophrenia.
Oh, well shit! I used to be unable to deal with people especially when i was younger, sometimes today although some doses of LSD and reading the book Ram Dass - Be Here Now ;) seems to have stopped that but, well gosh damn I think I know tons of schizo's, lets get them on this drug now!

Schizophrenia generally consists of the following kinds of symptoms.

Positive symptoms: Such as delusions or hallucinations—which are also known as seeing or believing things that are not real. (These are called “positive” symptoms because they are there but shouldn’t be.)

Hmm, well, I believe I am god, and have some control over my universe, etc etc, now I suppose a Dr. might hear some things I have to say and say they are 'delusions', "illogical", or whatever - but well I seem to be taking the "delusions" pretty damn fine, a lot of those learned from psychedelics and reading, taking what I can use for making life better and flowin' with the flow of life, blah blah blah. Huh, believing in things that aren't real, well i'm not so sure the same god that Bush and Co., Pat Robertson, believe in is real, but hey! SUPPORT OUR TROOPS! :).

Negative symptoms: Such as social avoidance, emotional withdrawal—which are also known as a lack of feeling, or expression. Starting to do things, but not following through. Taking no pleasure or interest in life. (These are called “negative” symptoms because they refer to things that are missing.)

.. I don't think I have to explain anything on that one, how many of you have the negative symptoms of schizophrenia? :).

Disorganized symptoms: Confused in thinking and speech. Acting in ways that do not make sense.

The above are the most common symptoms of schizophrenia, but they can also happen at the same time as the following symptoms: not being able to focus, unable to solve simple problems, being sad, or not being able to remember things.
Talk to your healthcare professional
Schizophrenia can happen to anyone. It often starts in the teenage years or twenties. If it is possible that you or a loved one has schizophrenia, talk to a healthcare professional. Spotting schizophrenia early and getting appropriate care can help avoid hospitalization and improve the chances of living a more productive life.

Schizophrenia is not a simple illness. There is no lab test to spot this disease. And no single sign proves that someone has it. In fact, all the signs can be found in other brain disorders. Only a healthcare professional will be able to tell if someone has schizophrenia.
What causes schizophrenia?
No one knows for sure.

... Well at least the website of this Geodon admits that ;).
 
So in short your saying: there is no such thing as a mental disorder and it's all a big coverup by the pharm companies in order to sell more drugs to maximize their profits?

Please. Doctors generally have ethics going into their field IIRC that they are doing it for the HEALTHCARE of the patient not some money thing. Believing you are God and thinking it's normal is a bit silly. Obviously people who are truly mentally ill will not think anything of this since it is normal to them I firmly believe ADD/HD exists because of my experience with strattera I noticied dramatic increases in my grades and it wasn't I was trying any harder true my emotions were abit numbed (more so then normal ;) ) but my grades were rising and I could actually understand the concepts.

One who has never suffered such a thing and watching their classmates succeed and barely passing isn't so fun when you clearly try just as hard if not harder but always seem to fall short.

Scientology too offers benefits: "Scientology supplies a technology that assisted me in confronting and handling such situations very effectively. My ability to create impact as an artist has increased tremendously due to Scientology auditing and training."

"Scientology has enabled me to make my dreams come true, really. I know that it can do the same for anyone."

They too like you are in a fight against psychiatry :)
 
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Anyway an update on my friend.

Picked him up yesterday to drive over and see another friend who's got all my old pirate radio equipment now and running it (87.9 FM detroit area). I used to do this years ago, and so has my friend, I had my station on the "west side" and his on the "east side" and while driving there was a cross over point where my station would fade right into his station (driving east/west).

There's not many people from the Detroit area here but, if so most likely if you don't remember, you know someone that was a regular listener :) ("dungeon radio" "87.9 87x"). Right now there's two stations up, both on 87.9 FM, 'Noize from Nowhere land' and then the death/thrash metal one on the "east side" (dont wnat to name cities here ;) )

So we went over my one friends house (noize from nowhere) and got the guy from the other station to come out and all hung out (I've known my friend Brad 'the schizo' and the metal station guy for years etc).

-- We talked about the DMT experience, he took his regular Geodon dose like normal the one night, and the next day (the day i'm talking about) he said he still feels GREAT, feels like the old Brad again, just like before all this has happened. Also, he said he also noticed that the muscle rigidity, or more robotic movements caused from the Geodon are lessened, he still feels more 'fluid' and its easier to move around. He looked overall less zombie like and really, more like his old self.

Talked about using DMT only when necessary, as a medicine, if he goes back home and if some symptoms start to show their face again then smoke some, but not just any old random time. I'm hoping if necessary in the future a toke of DMT (maybe even some music playing that was on the last time) might remind the mind how it was to be 'all together now'.

Well I have a strong feeling it will only be better from here, I do not think smoking DMT is going to bring on some full crazy episode - there are NOT many people who go 'crazy' (i mean crazy in a bad way people) from using psychedelics, I don't know but i'm still looking for the dude who thinks he's a cup of orange juice (or whatever it was).

I laughed with him about "the new cure for schizophrenia: smoke some DMT!". Its not that though, psychedelics in the right settings with trusted people, etc, therapy, i know can 'cure' so SO much of this kind of thing, but today isn't like before and they aren't 'accepted' for even hardly any medical research anymore.

I wouldnt be me if it weren't for these tools, and I like the me that I am :).
 
So in short your saying: there is no such thing as a mental disorder and it's all a big coverup by the pharm companies in order to sell more drugs to maximize their profits?

Please. Doctors generally have ethics going into their field IIRC that they are doing it for the HEALTHCARE of the patient not some money thing.

Maybe what i'm trying to say is, a 'mental disorder' to me, is something mental that *I* find undesired for my life, I couldn't care any less what some Dr. said. Yes, the pharm companies cover up tons of shit all the time, they come in to see Dr's with food, presents, work their psychology on them and try to get more and more drugs prescribed. Why would any of them be interested in psychedelics? MDMA? Of course not, because how can money be made in this legal drug business if its not something you have to take every day.

Doctors generally, I don't know I'd need to meet a lot more Doctors all over to form a strong opinion either way. I think Dr's generally just go to work like any other job, someone complains of depression, they write in their book some stuff, look it up like a robot and out they go with a Zoloft script or whatever. I'm sure a lot (most maybe, relaly i can't say) of Doctors may be there thinking they are helping people, but they are so conned by the pharm industry and the god damn Paxil pens and Zoloft clocks they look at every damn day they unknowingly .. dont really know JACK SHIT about mental health.

Believing you are God and thinking it's normal is a bit silly. Obviously people who are truly mentally ill will not think anything of this since it is normal to them I firmly believe ADD/HD exists because of my experience with strattera I noticied dramatic increases in my grades and it wasn't I was trying any harder true my emotions were abit numbed (more so then normal ) but my grades were rising and I could actually understand the concepts.

Silly how come? Ya know what, i think your god too ;). I certainly don't think anything is wrong with this, so am I mentally ill? What would you recommend sir, i need some good pharms like zoloft and all the rest so i think more like a robot? Thinking this or that right now ... helps me love life! I'm not going to get into in this thread about whatever, but, whatever works for me, and whatever works for you, when we are not hurting anyone else whats the problem knowing I am god? :).

Well i've been diagnosed ADD forever.. i'm a daydreamer in class, when i'm bored, and amphetamine's before class, a boring class, OF COURSE i'm going to pay more attention, and do more things with less effort required! It exists or doesn't exist is kinda just a pointless thing to even talk about - because, whatever works for you, if strattera helps YOU in class and you are willing to deal with any side effects whatever drug or whatever it is that you are doing to help you in life, well, its all up to you in the end! Do you "need" to be told by some authority figure like a Dr. that you are 'ADHD" so you feel somehow better about you taking "ADHD" drugs?

One who has never suffered such a thing and watching their classmates succeed and barely passing isn't so fun when you clearly try just as hard if not harder but always seem to fall short.

Sure sure, we can relate I was the one daydreaming in class and didnt do shit but stare out the window or draw, do my own thing, etc. I do see how i did work just as hard, etc, school's at least me growing up they put people like me down growing up for being the way I was. How many people have "AD/HD" today?? Its almost crazy how many people I know who have scripts for amphetamines (adderall usually), anyone can walk into a dr's office, in fact this is what I did - I looked up the cheapest i could find, went in, 'did my act', did whatever to get that doctor to give me what I want. I know more about the drugs than he does, and no one knows myself better than my own self etc. Walk in and say "man, i'm sad i think i have adhd I can't keep up with .. school...work... " "oh! well, here's some ritalin" "oh, well i tried ritalin and it gave me headache's, i ate a friend's adderall once and i've never had my mind so clear!" "here' some adderall! bye! " (the "chi-ching sound" at the dr.'s office).

I don't know why you keep bringing up Scientology lol, i think they are a bunch of stupid assholes myself. You really can't just associate me with this or that group, by reading some posts I made on the internet. Really everyone is different :).

Now, how about you put your criticising aside for a moment, and tell me what you think about my friend and the DMT smoking? - are you going to come and say "that was wrong", yeah go and tell my friend that he just should stay on the anti-psychotics forever and be "FINE" with life all zombied up like there's nothing better possible. Leave it to the Dr.'s huh? Not only is this, so far been a HUGE benefit for my friend, but, a huge insight for myself into how this is all working and something I should send into maps.org, post on the net, research research.. my friend wanted to try DMT, I didnt go here, smoke this. The more info and variety and alternative things that go on the better!

If this didnt happen, and I didn't do so much research into schizophrenia in the last months, well ... there he would be, brad taking his Geodon every day and nothing ever changing. I printed out a stack of different research from many different sides of it all (thats whats so great about the internet!) and gave it to him last night to check out (he had not really researched any of it when he went schizo! TOO much confidence in the pharm industry and Doctors people!).

Anyway I must go, i'm definitely posting any updates on this, esp. when he flys back out to his state.

%)
 
yaesutom, you got very lucky, but you are a fucking moron. You're not a medical doctor, you have limited, if any, knowledge of the pharmacology of DMT, no research of any kind to back up your little hypothesis, and yet you administer the drug to a "schizophrenic?" Especially when one of the main caveats of psychedelic use is that it can trigger latent mental disorders? This was extremely irresponsible, did you have a game plan for when he went completely ape-shit for the rest of his life and had to be committed? Could you live with yourself if that happened? Because that was a very real possibility. In fact, the odds were overwhelming that this experiment would do much more harm than good. There are some of us trying to use drugs responsibly, and we are persecuted because others are too dumb to handle this responsibility. Please be a bit more careful when playing around with very powerful psychoactive drugs.
 
yaesutom said:
Now, how about you put your criticising aside for a moment, and tell me what you think about my friend and the DMT smoking? - are you going to come and say "that was wrong", yeah go and tell my friend that he just should stay on the anti-psychotics forever and be "FINE" with life all zombied up like there's nothing better possible. Leave it to the Dr.'s huh? Not only is this, so far been a HUGE benefit for my friend, but, a huge insight for myself into how this is all working and something I should send into maps.org, post on the net, research research.. my friend wanted to try DMT, I didnt go here, smoke this. The more info and variety and alternative things that go on the better!

If this didnt happen, and I didn't do so much research into schizophrenia in the last months, well ... there he would be, brad taking his Geodon every day and nothing ever changing. I printed out a stack of different research from many different sides of it all (thats whats so great about the internet!) and gave it to him last night to check out (he had not really researched any of it when he went schizo! TOO much confidence in the pharm industry and Doctors people!).

Anyway I must go, i'm definitely posting any updates on this, esp. when he flys back out to his state.

%)

I think that it SHOULD be up to the doctors discression as they have had years of schooling and hands-on experience with patients sufferings. Do you think you have the proper degree/background to be messing with the mind in a way you are not familiar with? Remember these doctors have gone to school and studied outside to keep up with the latest research to provide the patients with the greatest benefit. The doctors are not trying to "scam" you out of money. That's ridiculous, they want to HELP people that is why they become doctors.

I would never consider giving someone a psychedelic who has been diagnosed to have a mental illness.

Do you "need" to be told by some authority figure like a Dr. that you are 'ADHD" so you feel somehow better about you taking "ADHD" drugs?

ADD not ADHD and of course not. I don't need someone to tell me that it is okay to be taking ADD drugs I take them because I believe it will help but the side effects (constipation) were too much to deal with so I stopped but it genuinely improved my grades.

Doctors generally, I don't know I'd need to meet a lot more Doctors all over to form a strong opinion either way. I think Dr's generally just go to work like any other job, someone complains of depression, they write in their book some stuff, look it up like a robot and out they go with a Zoloft script or whatever. I'm sure a lot (most maybe, relaly i can't say) of Doctors may be there thinking they are helping people, but they are so conned by the pharm industry and the god damn Paxil pens and Zoloft clocks they look at every damn day they unknowingly .. dont really know JACK SHIT about mental health.

They don't just put them on zoloft and then leave. SSRI's in CONJUNCTION with therapy. They will never put you on an SSRI and just hopefully magically let it work it's magic. Do you think you know more then them and how they think just because of your 'experiences' and what you've read? They have had *years* of experience and have dedicated their life to helping patients.

Why do you insist that doctors are trying to scam people out of the money? Do they get paid alot? Yes, but they are USEFUL. If it wasn't for doctors you probably wouldn't be where you were today :)

It's silly to think you are God because that is narcisstic and not true. New age philosophy needs to stop. I compare your thoughts to Scientology because I believe Ram Dass is not too far from Scientology in terms of the New Age movement. Richard Alpert(sp?) used LSD pretty extentsively(sp?) and I believe that what he experienced are delusions and tried to tie it into a pseudo-religion eastern ideaology. I dunno I just think trying to blend western ideaology is one of those good-in-theory but doesn't actually ever work. Blending drugs into a religion/belief system sort of taints it if you ask me if that's what you based alot of your experience off of.


Just because you read a few papers from a few various sources and interpreted them in your own fashion does not mean you know more then a doctor who has his best interest in hand. Doctor's are here to HELP people not SCAM them that is called a "quack" kind of like those Ram Dass type of people and other "god man" who scour over india performing "miracles." The new age movement can only take people as far as they want to believe.
 
I'm your inner voice (Guardian Angel) screaming,but don't shoot the messenger!

" there are NOT many people who go 'crazy' (i mean crazy in a bad way people) from using psychedelics, I don't know but i'm still looking for the dude who thinks he's a cup of orange juice (or whatever it was)."

I know at least one.

If someone uses psychedelics properly,he's trained to go inside and selfreflect and take appropriate actions.Going ahead without occasional selfreflection ALWAYS leads to a slap in your face (some kind of disaster).Ignorance (particularly in young age) though often wins,but I will try it:

Yaesuton,you need to go inside!
EOM
 
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