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4F-MPH - Retrospective - A cheaper Modafinil alternative? Experience Report

Papadoc

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 19, 2019
Messages
12
A friend of mine got his hands on another research chemical (RC) in the stimulant class, 4F-MPH.

This was of interest, because he wanted something that relieved chronic fatigue, provided physical energy and better mental focus. Having tried other RC stimulants and finding them too pleasurable to be used as functional stimulants decided to try 4F-MPH as many reports seemed to indicate it is not pleasurable or euphoric at all, and definitely closer to a medical substance like Adderall etc so more suitable as a work or study aid.

Appearance and characteristics:

Fine white powder, looks very similar to pure cocaine. No smell. Mildly bitter taste. Quite a caustic substance (burns tongue if dissolved in mouth) and if insufflated there is a mild burn, but not too bad due to the very small amounts needed (5-10mg).

4F-MPH is extremely potent and normal dosage is in the range 5-20mg, with 20mg considered a moderate-to-high dose and probably 5-10mg a normal dose. My friend started with a 5mg test dose (insufflated) and found this fairly stimulating and felt more awake, slight mood lift, but nothing remotely pleasurable or euphoric. Basically similar to caffeine, but with a much slower onset (about 30 mins) and a much longer duration of action (about 7-8 hours taken once, 10-14+ hours with 1 re-dose). Higher doses were tried, from 10mg to 30mg, and these only increased the amount of stimulation (and negative side effects), taking the dose higher did not provide any euphoria or anything of recreational value. Even pushing the dose to 100mg in a single day (4 doses spread apart by 3-4 hours) - NOTE this is not advisable and could be dangerous and it did not provide anything remotely close to recreational or pleasurable and only amplified the principle effects of feeling more awake, alert and stimulated into a more uncomfortable zone.

There are no compulsive urges or cravings to re-dose with 4F-MPH like there can be with other RC stimulants. Re-dosing (particularly beyond midday) seems to be wasteful, certainly beyond 1 small re-dose. Sleep became impossible on 4F-MPH with repeated redosing into the afternoon and early evening. Even with the use of benzodiazaphine drugs taken at double a normal knock-out dose, so this gives an idea of the potency and how this substance is very 'cognitive' and very similar to Modafinil in effect (which my friend has tried).

Summary of effects (positive):

- A rather slow onset (30-40 minutes or longer orally) which makes abuse or re-dosing unlikely.
- A more awake state, physical energy and stimulation very similar to caffeine or a pharma drug like Adderall, Modafinil etc.
- Only a fairly small dose needed (10-20mg) once a day in morning, repeated re-dosing only increases the side-effects and duration.
- A very functional stimulant with a very long duration of action (7-8 hours) and no urge to re-dose or abuse.
- A very clear headspace, mind is very focused on whatever task you're doing, no craving for chat or sensory stimulation.
- A mood boost (from increased dopamine) but this is subtle and more like an anti-depressant, rather a coke or amphetamine rush.
- No comedown, quite tolerable to use repeatedly for many days in a row at normal dose range without any ill effects.

Summary of effects (negative):

- Long duration of action, with a long residual physical stimulated feeling which can be unpleasant and make sleep difficult.
- The stimulation feels a little 'forced' particularly at higher doses and can lead to feeling jittery/nervousness or anxiety.
- Affects waking sleep cycle dramatically, especially if taken beyond midday making sleep impossible.
- Substance seems quite caustic (supported by other reports) and can cause mild tissue damage to nasal passages and mouth, plus gastric disturbances.
- Higher doses and/or repeated re-dosing can lead to muscular and cardiovascular tension.

Summary of effects (neutral):

- Appetite suppression, not major though.
- Increased heart rate and blood pressure, again nothing major.
- Flushed face at higher doses, particularly if combined with alcohol.


Any questions, please feel free to ask. My friend has been using this substance now for 2 weeks almost daily at varying doses and has a good feel for the drug and its effects compared to both other RC stimulants (he's tried many so can make comparisons) and also Modafinil and other similar prescription 'smart' drugs, which he has also tried. He says he prefers 4F-MPH over Modafinil and Adderall, as it's not quite as physically stimulating (except at higher doses, i.e. 30+ mg) or prone to causing anxiety as those drugs usually do for him at lower doses relative to 4F-MPH for basically the same level of cognitive and energy boost benefits. As an aside note, seen reports of people also commenting that 4F-MPH may have an anti-depressant use potential, as it lower doses it does seem to act like an anti-depressant acting on dopamine though rather than serotonin, according to the limited scientific info available.

Safety, toxicity & health risks

Finally, please remember as with any RC drugs these effects may be subjective and your experience may be different so start slow with low doses and be careful. Remember this is fairly untested substance in humans, with no clinical trials and a fairly limited history of use in human subjects. The risks and toxicity side of things, particularly longer-term are unknown same as with most RC's, but for short-term and occasional use it seems quite safe. With its potency and a steep dosage-to-effect profile, caution is advised on people with health or heart problems and probably unwise mixing it with other stimulants or drugs, including alcohol beyond light use.

We haven't seen any reports though of serious health problems linked to 4F-MPH (or even minor for that matter) and my friend says it's quite a forgiving substance on the body even at the higher dose range, compared to other stimulants (and even pharma drugs which can lead to heavy body stress, jaw clenching etc) not that there's any benefit in doing so really with 4F-MPH. Daily use at least for a week or two, maybe more at lower doses seem well tolerated and normal sleep possible and no negative after effects the next day or over time reported. The only thing to watch is probably blood pressure increase (especially in people with already high blood pressure) and being careful if you have a heart condition, as 4F-MPH definitely increases blood pressure and possibly heart stress more so at higher doses, than many other RC stimulants tried, given its higher potency.

Tagged by Xorkoth
substancecode_4fmethylphenidate
substancecode_4fmph
substancecode_stimulants
explevel_retrospective
exptype_positive
roacode_nasal
 
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Xorkoth

Administrator: PD, TR, P&S
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46,680
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In the mountains
Thanks for the report, very informative. :) I would have thought 4f-methylphenidate would be pretty close to methylphenidate which many people find quite abusable. Have you tried 3-FPM? I found that one very functional with very little in the way of euphoria and not too long a duration.
 

Papadoc

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 19, 2019
Messages
12
Glad you liked it :) It's been a while and I can't remember now if it was 3-FPM or 4-FPM which I found quite euphoric and recreational at moderate to higher doses,
but yes I have heard 3-FPM can be used as quite a functional stimulant and it's not long a duration as you say. The thing is with all the RC stims I've tried, the faster the onset and the more euphoric the more it can lead to crazy binges or compulsive re-dosing which makes it not at all functional and really you can get in a real mess not getting any work or anything else done! 4-mmc is like that, which I absolutely love, but once I start I can't put it down lol

4F-MPH seems to disappointment a lot of people who are expecting some euphoria or some recreational use, and they keep pushing the dose higher and higher and hoping
it will give them something like that. It's just not that kind of substance at all and is the closest thing I'd say to Modafinil. It certainly has some potential for real medical uses,
and the instant anti-depressant effect people report from dopamine increase is interesting as there's no comedown or craving more. This together with its fairly low side-effect profile make it a possible anti-depressant or mood stabiliser where there is low-energy, fatigue and lack of motivation etc. I have heard of some people using it purely for the anti-depressant effect at loses of 5mg or less per day, dosed once or twice a day.
 
Last edited:

Xorkoth

Administrator: PD, TR, P&S
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Feb 8, 2006
Messages
46,680
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In the mountains
Cool, sounds pretty useful. I guess fluorinating amphetamines changes them quite substantially too (like 4-FA vs amphetamine).
 

Lizzy1Fair

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 25, 2019
Messages
485
Location
SW Florida
A friend of mine got his hands on another research chemical (RC) in the stimulant class, 4F-MPH.

This was of interest, because he wanted something that relieved chronic fatigue, provided physical energy and better mental focus. Having tried other RC stimulants and finding them too pleasurable to be used as functional stimulants decided to try 4F-MPH as many reports seemed to indicate it is not pleasurable or euphoric at all, and definitely closer to a medical substance like Adderall etc so more suitable as a work or study aid.

Appearance and characteristics:

Fine white powder, looks very similar to pure cocaine. No smell. Mildly bitter taste. Quite a caustic substance (burns tongue if dissolved in mouth) and if insufflated there is a mild burn, but not too bad due to the very small amounts needed (5-10mg).

4F-MPH is extremely potent and normal dosage is in the range 5-20mg, with 20mg considered a moderate-to-high dose and probably 5-10mg a normal dose. My friend started with a 5mg test dose (insufflated) and found this fairly stimulating and felt more awake, slight mood lift, but nothing remotely pleasurable or euphoric. Basically similar to caffeine, but with a much slower onset (about 30 mins) and a much longer duration of action (about 7-8 hours taken once, 10-14+ hours with 1 re-dose). Higher doses were tried, from 10mg to 30mg, and these only increased the amount of stimulation (and negative side effects), taking the dose higher did not provide any euphoria or anything of recreational value. Even pushing the dose to 100mg in a single day (4 doses spread apart by 3-4 hours) - NOTE this is not advisable and could be dangerous and it did not provide anything remotely close to recreational or pleasurable and only amplified the principle effects of feeling more awake, alert and stimulated into a more uncomfortable zone.

There are no compulsive urges or cravings to re-dose with 4F-MPH like there can be with other RC stimulants. Re-dosing (particularly beyond midday) seems to be wasteful, certainly beyond 1 small re-dose. Sleep became impossible on 4F-MPH with repeated redosing into the afternoon and early evening. Even with the use of benzodiazaphine drugs taken at double a normal knock-out dose, so this gives an idea of the potency and how this substance is very 'cognitive' and very similar to Modafinil in effect (which my friend has tried).

Summary of effects (positive):

- A rather slow onset (30-40 minutes or longer orally) which makes abuse or re-dosing unlikely.
- A more awake state, physical energy and stimulation very similar to caffeine or a pharma drug like Adderall, Modafinil etc.
- Only a fairly small dose needed (10-20mg) once a day in morning, repeated re-dosing only increases the side-effects and duration.
- A very functional stimulant with a very long duration of action (7-8 hours) and no urge to re-dose or abuse.
- A very clear headspace, mind is very focused on whatever task you're doing, no craving for chat or sensory stimulation.
- A mood boost (from increased dopamine) but this is subtle and more like an anti-depressant, rather a coke or amphetamine rush.
- No comedown, quite tolerable to use repeatedly for many days in a row at normal dose range without any ill effects.

Summary of effects (negative):

- Long duration of action, with a long residual physical stimulated feeling which can be unpleasant and make sleep difficult.
- The stimulation feels a little 'forced' particularly at higher doses and can lead to feeling jittery/nervousness or anxiety.
- Affects waking sleep cycle dramatically, especially if taken beyond midday making sleep impossible.
- Substance seems quite caustic (supported by other reports) and can cause mild tissue damage to nasal passages and mouth, plus gastric disturbances.
- Higher doses and/or repeated re-dosing can lead to muscular and cardiovascular tension.

Summary of effects (neutral):

- Appetite suppression, not major though.
- Increased heart rate and blood pressure, again nothing major.
- Flushed face at higher doses, particularly if combined with alcohol.


Any questions, please feel free to ask. My friend has been using this substance now for 2 weeks almost daily at varying doses and has a good feel for the drug and its effects compared to both other RC stimulants (he's tried many so can make comparisons) and also Modafinil and other similar prescription 'smart' drugs, which he has also tried. He says he prefers 4F-MPH over Modafinil and Adderall, as it's not quite as physically stimulating (except at higher doses, i.e. 30+ mg) or prone to causing anxiety as those drugs usually do for him at lower doses relative to 4F-MPH for basically the same level of cognitive and energy boost benefits. As an aside note, seen reports of people also commenting that 4F-MPH may have an anti-depressant use potential, as it lower doses it does seem to act like an anti-depressant acting on dopamine though rather than serotonin, according to the limited scientific info available.

Safety, toxicity & health risks

Finally, please remember as with any RC drugs these effects may be subjective and your experience may be different so start slow with low doses and be careful. Remember this is fairly untested substance in humans, with no clinical trials and a fairly limited history of use in human subjects. The risks and toxicity side of things, particularly longer-term are unknown same as with most RC's, but for short-term and occasional use it seems quite safe. With its potency and a steep dosage-to-effect profile, caution is advised on people with health or heart problems and probably unwise mixing it with other stimulants or drugs, including alcohol beyond light use.

We haven't seen any reports though of serious health problems linked to 4F-MPH (or even minor for that matter) and my friend says it's quite a forgiving substance on the body even at the higher dose range, compared to other stimulants (and even pharma drugs which can lead to heavy body stress, jaw clenching etc) not that there's any benefit in doing so really with 4F-MPH. Daily use at least for a week or two, maybe more at lower doses seem well tolerated and normal sleep possible and no negative after effects the next day or over time reported. The only thing to watch is probably blood pressure increase (especially in people with already high blood pressure) and being careful if you have a heart condition, as 4F-MPH definitely increases blood pressure and possibly heart stress more so at higher doses, than many other RC stimulants tried, given its higher potency.

Tagged by Xorkoth
substancecode_4fmethylphenidate
substancecode_4fmph
substancecode_stimulants
explevel_retrospective
exptype_positive
roacode_nasal
What are the other stimulant RC's that you are referring to? I need something different, but there's really so many that it gets overwhelming when researching these rc's. I need to talk to someone who's tried 1, 2 or a few. TIA
 

negrogesic

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I procured some 4f-mph recently.

The description in this retrospective is very accurate.

To be entirely frank I was hoping it had the euphoria or methylphenidate (which I do find recreational and used to abuse heavily). Fortunately for me (as opposed to my desires) 4f-mph has low abuse potential, though its potential for abuse is higher than isopropylphenidate (which has almost zero abuse potential).

Unlike isopropylphenidate, 4f-mph does have a noradrenergic push at high doses, where as isopropylphenidate is primarily dopaminergic at most doses. This makes it, like methylphenidate, better for actually getting things done (as opposed to the soley increased focus that isopropylphenidate provides).

Still, i wish it was a little more fun, like dextromethylphenidate.
 

ememc41

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Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Messages
13
Location
USA
I tried larger doses because I thought I could experience euphoria which I did after high doses but the come down is horrible and not worth it at all. I wish I would have read this. I thought reddit was sufficient because people raved about 20 mg doses but that it was more functional than pleasurable which is true but 20 mg is a large dose and I never dosed that high at once, the most I did was 10 mg but I took 5 mg and then 10 mg within 1 hour of each other which was a lot to me, I do take adderall that's prescribed which could be responsible for the bad come down from the substance. I really wish I had a benzo for the come down and again mine was probably worse because of mixing substances but my neck hurt badly, I had a forehead headache, and my mood was really negative which was the worst to deal with the other things weren't a big deal.
 
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dopamimetic

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Yeah the phenidates tend to feel forced and jittery sometimes, I like the chilled out fluoroamphetamines better 🙃

For euphoria you want to add something serotonergic, preferably a releaser like 5-MAPB. Very high dopamine alone just leads to compulsive behaviour and scattered thoughts.
But that will increase the depletion and needs to be done with caution.

Interesting that this one lasts for so much longer than the others, all MPH, EPH, IPH only last 2-4h.

Emoxypine, the Russian antioxidant nootropic makes a good combo which helps to protect against excessive dopamine oxidation and oxidative stress, the primary origin of DA neurotoxicity and also why there is a rebound.
 

Pfafffed

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Messages
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Yeah,, 4f-mph is no joke. I am still a little surprised by how intense it is compared to its peers
 

negrogesic

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I still use 4F-MPH pretty frequently.

It has a mere fraction of the abuse potential of methylphenidate proper, similar to the difference in abuse potential of 2-fluoromethamphetamine (2-FMA) and methamphetamine, but potentially higher therapeutic potential perhaps by virtue of its reduced abuse potential along with its increased duration.

Being more of a DRI than an NRI than methylphenidate gives it less push and motivation to get stuff done which can be a problem however.

The side-effects are minimal and comedown almost imperceptible at 10-15mg snorted BID (2x a day). That said its ok and lacks that adrenergic push.

If i really need to get stuff done ill take some a-PCYP which is a cathinone that is very functional when sniffed and has the lowest urge to redose of any cathinone I've ever come across.
 

emkee_reinvented

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With methylphendidate prescribed for quite some time years ago_One time Ethylphenidate. And recent 3-FPM.

It lacked the in your face effect of MPH. And the euphoria. But overal it was better, also then other two. My batch was not very caustic, so snortrable.

I have little selfcontrol when out of ADHD meds. So the 700mg was gone in a few day's. The longer duration went unnoticable but compared to MPH the comeup is slower. Seems less hard on the body to, but I was using a poly combo so hard to say.
 
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negrogesic

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With methylphendidate prescribed for quite some time years ago_One time Ethylphenidate. And recent 3-FPM.

It lacked the in your face effect of MPH. And the euphoria. But overal it was better, also then other two. My batch was not very caustic, so snortrable.

I have little selfcontrol when out of ADHD meds. So the 700mg was gone in a few day's. The longer duration went unnoticable but compared to MPH the comeup is slower. Seems less hard on the body to, but I was using a poly combo so hard to say.
You went through 700mg of 4F-MPH in a few days? Sounds uncomfortable.

How is 3-FPM?
 

emkee_reinvented

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You went through 700mg of 4F-MPH in a few days? Sounds uncomfortable.

How is 3-FPM?
My opininion's are back and forth. I raved About 3-FPM, but last time it felt like some sort of Ephedrine/ Cathinone hybrid.

Strangely enough the ammount of 4f-MPH wasn't that noticable, to me. My med's again one week short. Take into account I am on 35mg d-Amphetamine for years. And abuse it, hence the shortage.

I question the purity though. Or is this tolerance?

Or all the downer's and booze.
 
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