last minute mescaline assistance needed (san pedro).

[username840]

hi!
experiencing mescaline for the first time monday and am explicitly confused by the information I've come across through research on preparation methods mostly because of so much contradiction in which methods yield the highest quality natural, alkaloid-ally active product--- maybe any of you could help with anecdotal information or credible references as answers to my questions below:

-simply, what is the preferred method for you or what YOU've read in bringing upon a great first-time (or anytime) san pedro/mescaline experience?
I have read about so many different teas that my head is spinning and one other common method involving ONLY freezing, refreezing, and blending the raw cactus with milk, water &/or ice cream (and also same "smoothie" idea with milk ice cream and prepared san pedro tea... combing the two methods...[AAAAHHHHHH!!!])

-how many times should i freeze and refreeze? will doing this too often damage any of the active alkaloids (i'm not only interested in the mescaline, i mean generally psychoactive alkaloid content of san pedro... there is more than mescaline)

-if making a tea (if that is preferred over frozen, raw smoothie), how long should i boil/simmer? i have heard as little as 20 minutes to as much as 5 hours, 4 times.

- how is it made traditionally in the andes? one erowid recipe on this, but have found nothing on any other site to validate. the andean on erowid prepares a tea, boiling for 4 hours, then drinking the liquid matter after simple strain.

-are there alkaloids in the white area AROUND the woody center, or only in the green area betw the white and outer skin-layer?

-if freezing/refreezing, how and where should i store the goos that drip from the cactus?

-similarly to above, in any preparation there are multiple steps which leave behind alkaloid rich excretions, how do we best handle these in the process.

the cactus is roughly 2 feet high, in a poor soil mixture, and from a nearby succulent nursery. it is comparable to other psychoactive plants i have studied in its aesthetic and I have stressed it by removing some spines and placing it in a dark cabinet for the past few days, hoping to increase the alkaloid content (have not read any threads of information directing specifically against this, only indifference or promotion).

i really just need to narrow down my options and would like to get a firmer grasp on what's actually the MOST effect prep. i know everyone is different but we really need a stronger consensus on this- whether it's tea or the raw cactus... the experience HAS to be significantly different!!!




Thank you for any help you may offer!!!
also, drinking the tea with 150 mics of L. I was thinking with a 2-hour onset of mescaline I should take the L 1.5 hours after ingesting the prepared san pedro in order to achieve a synchronized lift off... thoughts? i'd really like to hear any preferred extraction methods by those who have tried this combination, maybe the way sp is extracted is effected when combining w lsd...???


well, ive incriminated myself i suppose.
if it means anything to anyone, i have suffered and do suffer from severe stress and anxiety and choose psychedelics to facilitate active healing so i may function regularly/productively.

 

[sekio]

Mescaline is stable to basically everything but strong oxidising agents and flame.

The purpose of freezing/thawing/refreezing the cactus is simply to destroy the cell walls by growing ice crystals that burst them, and hence releasing the goodies. You don't have to do it 5 times, freezing the cactus once is more than enough. In fact you don't even have to do it at all.

Making a tea normally requires a few (4-5) hours to boil down "whole" intact cactus chunks into a goop suitable for drinking. If you freeze and thaw your cactus, have it chopped up, or both, then the process will go considerably faster.

A rule of thumb is to boil the cactus until the liquid is considerably more bitter and nasty-tasting than the cactus flesh remaining in the solution.

The woody centre of the cactus does contain alkaloids, but most of the alkaloids you want are in the skin and tissue below the skin of the cactus.


As far as I can tell there's very little variance between the methods of extraction. The "traditional" way was likely taking fresh cactus, dicing it up, and brewing it down into a thick sludgy tea which is strained and consumed. (no access to freezers)

The most efficient way for a layman is probably:
1. Take fresh cactus, cut it up into as small chunks as you can. (save the juice and excretions)
2. Freeze the bits'o'cactus.
3. Boil some water, add the cactus drippings, and then add the frozen (or semi-thawed) cactus.
3a. (optional) Add a whole lemon or whole lime, cut into 6-8 wedges (the acids will help extract the mescaline)
4. Boil it on high boil, adding water to stop the pot from boiling dry. Boil for 2~3 hours, or more if you want. Use the "taste test" to guesstimate extraction.
5. Filter out the cactus chunks, and compost 'em.
6. (optional) reduce the tea to a drinkable volume by boiling.
7. Cool it and drink.

The main reason some people prefer "teas" over cactus smoothie or whatever, is compatibility with the human digestive tract. Humans weren't really meant to eat cactus. Hence, cactus flash tastes awful, and many people find that the roughage from whole cactus can upset their digestive tract. (especially when the mescaline is kicking in). Removing the inactive fibre and skin helps increase the palatability too because you can drink your whole dose in a 30 ml shot instead of 2 cups of cactus smoothie.

The preparation that has the *most* effect is of course just eating the cactus whole, or blended into milk, because any extraction will lsoe *some* active ingredients. But many people find that the losses are not significant enough because mesc is very water soluble, and cactus tastes truly awful.

 

[panic in paradise]

^ i found that before preparing tea, drying quartered, 3/4" thick rounds, partially in the oven around 125F to have a greater effect and have much less of the, snot texture.

personally it was never necessary to "boil" the cactus for more then 3 hours, but there are many factors to consider, so it could be best to have some, letting that settle with you OP, then after another couple of hours have the rest.

but now i see this is a young single 2' cactus you have, dont be overly worried and cautious, it could be easy to be disappointed is all i am saying, so enjoy all of the experience.

btw ~ mescaline gives me the munchies BAD, i crave barbeque on it ...
total aphrodisiac as well


oh yeah!

_________
maybe invest in a "thumb piano" too

 

[panic_the_digital]

Be sure that you don't boil down in an aluminum pot.

 

[panic in paradise]

Be sure that you don't boil down in an aluminum pot.

lol

that thought makes my teeth hurt.

 

[username840]

@sekio:

Mescaline is stable to basically everything but strong oxidising agents and flame.

The purpose of freezing/thawing/refreezing the cactus is simply to destroy the cell walls by growing ice crystals that burst them, and hence releasing the goodies. You don't have to do it 5 times, freezing the cactus once is more than enough. In fact you don't even have to do it at all.

...

The preparation that has the *most* effect is of course just eating the cactus whole, or blended into milk, because any extraction will lsoe *some* active ingredients. But many people find that the losses are not significant enough because mesc is very water soluble, and cactus tastes truly awful.

thank you for sharing what you've found to be the difference between the tea and the smoothie, especially. I am definitely willing to deal with the slight difference in effect through making the tea, because i do have a somewhat sensitive stomach.--- i guess that is something fairly obvious that you've pointed out is the reduction allows one to take the same dosage concentrated in a smaller amount of plant material, thereby lessening at least somewhat or significantly, digestion issues.

I think i am going to freeze and re-freeze a few times... without deviating too far from the more primitive method, through what ive studied, it seems to be smart step to consider for a brew.

and as far as i found there is a great profusion of methodology for extracting the psychoactive compounds from san pedro. this is similar to many but every one is ever so slightly different and not EVERYONE is always particularly satisfied with the brew so i have to wonder if it is the plant, which it is at times i am sure, or the brewing procedure, which it is at times i'm sure... eitherway thank you so much for offering what i hope is a tried procedure, it is extremely common and the one i have been most interested in but reading conflicting recipes have made me question its credibility.

i will stop being concerned soon and have either the answers to some of these questions, i suppose, thru method failure or all of the answers in the world, thru otherwise method-success.

 

[username840]

^ i found that before preparing tea, drying quartered, 3/4" thick rounds, partially in the oven around 125F to have a greater effect and have much less of the, snot texture.
...
btw ~ mescaline gives me the munchies BAD, i crave barbeque on it ...
total aphrodisiac as well


oh yeah!

_________
maybe invest in a "thumb piano" too

good to hear about the age issue. i'm hoping the minimal stress will somewhat increase preferred activity also that i haven't been exposed to mescaline at all, or any psychedelic (other than marijuana...???lol) in the past three months may catalyze the even trace amounts in the young plant.

hah, i'm stocking up for the munchies!!! i already got my pineapple, i fucking love pineapple, ESPECIALLY (a difficult to describe difference...) in entheogen experiences.

 

[username840]

Be sure that you don't boil down in an aluminum pot.

bah!!! i am buying the supplies today
(i recently moved from ny to l.a. and everything i had in ny was given to me or found easily on the street... i left EVERYTHING because it would have cost more for uhaul trailor and hitch install for my shit small car than everything i had was worth so i find myself at least once a day needing something i otherwise had in ny for much free-er or cheaper bc there i at least knew of the goodwills that weren't ripping you off on pricing and people actually threw shit out. i don't know what people do with their unused and unwanted shit in l.a. but it certainly isn't on the curb, nothing that isn't in total disrepair ... you can't even find decent postings on free craigslist. i don't know. )

but yeah thanks, no aluminum

 

[bluedolphin]

First advice is try San Pedro on it's own. It's pretty special stuff. You don't need to mix it with LSD (which is also pretty special stuff). LSD is nice after the peak of mescaline, though.

Make a tea. Follow the recipes. It works well. A big cactus smoothie is hard to choke down.

I'm not sure I understand Sekio's method of making tea though. How can you simmer it down with all the gunk still in the pot? I would suggest doing it this way, so that you separate the juice from the cactus gunk earlier on in the process. This will make for lower viscosity tea and less mess to deal with.

For the tea you don't boil it. Simmer it down once you have extracted juice from your ground up cactus. To extract juice you dump the ground up cactus into a large pot and put some water and a splash of lemon juice in there. Put this on low/medium heat for maybe 20 minutes and then strain the juice into another collection pot. You extract the juice several times to get all the alkaloids out, or as much as possible. Then you simmer down all your juice until it more or less fills a small tea cup. Don't let it burn.

My experience is that entire prep time of San Pedro tea takes 8-10 hours. You could rush it by turning up the heat, but the way I see it the cactus took a fairly long time to grow and offer you the experience, so there's no need to rush the prep.

The flesh right next to the woody core isn't as active as the darker flesh near the skin, but it's still active. Since you are going to make a tea you might as well use all the cactus except the woody core itself. Leave the spines and skin on it.. it doesn't matter.

If you are using 2 full feet of San Pedro expect to trip fairly hard. Young cacti usually aren't as strong as old weathered ones but 2 feet is still a fair amount.

 

[daytryptr]

One thing i'd add that hasn't already been mentioned is use vinegar as your acid if you use one at all. Lemon/lime juice, more specifically the citric acid is not volatile like acetic acid. Excess vinegar will evaporate off while citric acid will not, and the more you reduce it the more sour it will get. No need to make that tasty tasty tea even more delicious

 

[bluedolphin]

One thing i'd add that hasn't already been mentioned is use vinegar as your acid if you use one at all. Lemon/lime juice, more specifically the citric acid is not volatile like acetic acid. Excess vinegar will evaporate off while citric acid will not, and the more you reduce it the more sour it will get. No need to make that tasty tasty tea even more delicious

That explains why my teas always tasted like shit. That, and the cactus

 

[username840]

thank you for the advice!
i am combining the two because i got the 150 mics first, my minimum dosage for lsd is 300 mics (i am 5'8", 125 lbs) so i was looking for a way to intensify my smaller lsd dose, not otherwise intensifying the mescaline trip. i m excited, however to isolate the san pedro or mescaline experience someday in the near or far future. i should also say i am sharing the two feet!!! (not the 150 mics).


good to know about the simmer, i've read this especially countless times so it is nice to have it reinforced.

through replies here and continued education else-wise just since posting i have decided a brew is best. for some reason i wasn't even considering the factors of reduction and the amount from a tea to digest vs that of a smoothie. that idea alone, is enough to steer me in the tea direction. every source also seems to confirm the excellent stability of most of the molecules in the plant so that is another idea that has more interested in the tea.

 

[username840]

thank you, now that i know my method, taste and digestion i think are my new two biggest concerns (not that they wouldn't be of concern had i be deciding on a smoothie prep, but the concerns are addressed differently, so... yeah). i see mostly methods with citrus juices, or no acid at all.--- not that i haven't comeby the vinegar option, but i haven't read described, the reason why of using one over the other.

 

[cj]

Pro tip- Put the cut up chinks in a blender before you boil.

 

[Ismene]

Might be best preparing a very small amount of cactus first and seeing whether you can actually drink it without vomiting. Lots of people (including me) have spent a shitload of money on cactus, spent days "preparing" it just right, then took one sip, vomited and put the glass down saying "fuck that".

 

[username840]

Pro tip- Put the cut up chinks in a blender before you boil.

i will next time, hopefully. i only have a low-pay part time job and a blender isn't in my present budget. perhaps the freezing, refreezing, chopping, and vinegar will compensate for not having a blender.

 

[username840]

Might be best preparing a very small amount of cactus first and seeing whether you can actually drink it without vomiting. Lots of people (including me) have spent a shitload of money on cactus, spent days "preparing" it just right, then took one sip, vomited and put the glass down saying "fuck that".

I MUST keep it down. hah.
I am prepared for an exceptionally awful taste and nd expecting to want to vomit, but those feelings i am (not expecting to...) but at any rate am almost sure, will subside. 1 and a half hours of nausea is quite a small amt of time comparing it to the length of the trip entirely.

 

[daytryptr]

I MUST keep it down. hah.
I am prepared for an exceptionally awful taste and nd expecting to want to vomit, but those feelings i am (not expecting to...) but at any rate am almost sure, will subside. 1 and a half hours of nausea is quite a small amt of time comparing it to the length of the trip entirely.

You can always boil it down to a syrup, and dry it in the oven on a pyrex dish at 175F. Scrape up the resin, smear some honey, flour, etc. on them and eat resin balls chased with water. Same effects as the tea, without the gagging/repulsion once you taste exactly what you just brewed, and realize that was like 2 gulps of many lol.

Super concentrated tea/syrup aint so bad either. Shoot it and chase with fruit juice/water and its entirely bearable.

 

[bluedolphin]

Yeah it should be called "cactus syrup". The stuff is thick and slimey! Drying it out to make resin is a good way to go.

I've also frozen tea/syrup into ice cubes before and you can swallow an ice cube in a few pieces, minimizing the surface area of tea/syrup that you have to taste.

 

[username840]

i'll definitely be reducing it as much as my motivation and attn will allow. unfortunately i don't have a functional oven... so baking at any temp for resball outcome isn't an option.

i am actually getting excited for this awful taste... so much hype leading up to it.


i am cutting the sp into sections (leaving the waxy out skin and spines as suggested) soon and will begin freezing, refreezing until late tonight when i start simmering the cactus in water and distilled white vinegar.
keep the suggestions coming, i really appreciate all of the personal tips.

*** although the cactus was mentioned as being bought presumably new in a succulent nursery, i don't believe the cactus i have was grown from seed recently. the diameter is quite large and along w coloration, and a couple of other factors, i'm led to believe it is a product of an older cactus recycled for sale.