Heroin Zopiclone bandit VS The NHS V1.0 "I am Smackacus!"

[Señor Moreno]

As @Señor Moreno said a few weeks ago You are a lifer" & tbh I know I am, without Heroin I cannot function & Methadone is no magic cure

Absolutely important subject.
We addicts allways have been told that being a lifer means being a loser. They told us that only abstinence will make us free, and happy and normal functioning citizens. Well: FUCK THEM.
There are of course some of us, decades long addicts, that are able to achieve abstinence, and I have the most legit respect for them and for what they have achieved. But other of us won't be able to do so, and we understand that we will be lifers
Understanding that you will be a lifer take time and nobody is happy realizing that he/she will be a lifer, that is a person who will use opiates until they die. That's a hard scenario to face, but it's a,million times better than just wasting your life fighting a war against yourself, moreso, fighting a war that you know you can't and won't win.
I waste my 20s, my 30s, and the best part of my 40s fighting that stupid war. And know, in my 50s, it hurts a lot to think that I was decades fighting a war that was against me, against my fucking self. They tell us that our combat is against drugs, or against behaviours, or againstwhatever..... everything to hide the fact that you, and only you, is the enemy that you are fighting in that holly war to achieve abstinence.
They allow us to fight all that fake bussiness only for a reason: that's they job: keeping you delusional about the nature of your addiction. That's how they keep their jobs, that's where they get their profit.
I only can say that realizing that I am and will be a lifer, was the key point, the actual u turn that allowed me to stop hating myself.
I assume that I will a lifer, but now I have a functional life and, the most important, I don't hate myself anymore.

If you have tried everything, if you have undergone any and every kind of methods to achieve abstinence and you couldn't, don't hate yourself. Just focus in make your life as confortable and functional as you can.
There are millions and millions of people on earth: don't choose precisely yourself as your big enemy just because you can't be abstinent forever.

 

[BadBoy377]

Off topic a bit but can you smoke prescribed sustained release morphine pills? Or is the coating they put on it to make it sustained release liable to destroy your lungs?

I don't think so. You can't really smoke morphine. I think because it gets denatured due to pyrolysis. That right @4DQSAR ?

 

[Bleaney]

Acht, I was just bantering.

Maybe a bit inappropriate. Apologies to anyone for any offense caused.

I hope it's not way out of order to suggest that to me that post might show signs of social anxiety.

Maybe I'm not objective because have it too. Severely. (It's the main driver for my benzo use, despite there being multiple other strong drivers on top.)

Do you think that might be the case with you? If your comfortable talking about it either openly or PM. You don't have to respond at all.

Of course I may be totally wrong, and it might just have been a 'funny turn' on a stim comedown, with not necessarily anything much of anxiety behind it. Perhaps a flash of paranoia?

FFS I've just realised AGAIN, how much weed makes me overthink everything, so if this post is a lot of words saying nothing, then please tell me so

It's certainly obvious that posting UTI of anything affects judgement, and what ends up getting posted.

For better or worse. (I mustn't keep saying that .)

 

[Ismene2]

I don't think so. You can't really smoke morphine. I think because it gets denatured due to pyrolysis. That right @4DQSAR ?

Ah right - I think I vaguely heard someone say "sprinkle a bit on a joint" once. But I've heard "sprinkle it on a joint" about every drug there is. That coating can't be good to smoke.

 

[4DQSAR]

Hard to find the MP of freebase morphine. The salts certainly cannot be smoked but MAYBE the freebase can - although certain to be hot and nasty. A phenolic -OH and an allylic -OH which means hydrogen-bonding between atoms will be significant so MP will be high.

Now even obtaining the freebase isn't quite as obvious as it may seem as a metal hydroxite will form a salt with the morphine e.g. sodium morphinate.

I believe in Afghanistan, ammonium chloride is added, the freebase morphine rises to the top and is seperated, dried and boiled with an acetylating agent. It's certainly the case that brown smoking heroin in fact contains morphine 3-monoacetyl morphine and 6-monoacetyl morphine as well as the sought diamorphine (H).

Oral bioavilability is only about 20% but you don't need pins or heat, walls of rectum absorb close to 100% AND avoid first-pass metabolism so aa few people say it's as active as if a person chooses the pin. In fact, I can count on the fingers of one foot how many psychoatives really work better in the pin rather than...'tother way.

 

[BadBoy377]

I hope it's not way out of order to suggest that to me that post might show signs of social anxiety.

Maybe I'm not objective because have it too. Severely. (It's the main driver for my benzo use, despite there being multiple other strong drivers on top.)

Do you think that might be the case with you? If your comfortable talking about it either openly or PM. You don't have to respond at all.

Of course I may be totally wrong, and it might just have been a 'funny turn' on a stim comedown, with not necessarily anything much of anxiety behind it. Perhaps a flash of paranoia?

FFS I've just realised AGAIN, how much weed makes me overthink everything, so if this post is a lot of words saying nothing, then please tell me so

It's certainly obvious that posting UTI of anything affects judgement, and what ends up getting posted.

For better or worse. (I mustn't keep saying that .)

Hey @Bleaney ,

Thanks, man. That's decent of you. Yeah you definitely picked up on something there.

I wasn't particularly anxious but I'd made a couple of comments just joking about really but I see how someone reading it could take it the wrong way maybe. Just don't want to offend anyone when I'm not trying to. I'm respectful of women and people in general but my sense of humour can be a bit crass sometimes and humour doesn't always come across as intended when posting online.

I often post when UTI indeed and that day in general I managed to irritate some of my friends and people in life in general.

Thanks for that. Definitely something we will discuss at some point.

BB

 

[Ddeeee]

It’s allowed to stay because it simply breaks no rules.

I am aware you and Bandit have interpersonal beef of some kind, please keep it private and away from public threads.

It is nothing to do with that, doctor shopping or trying to "trick a gp into prescribing narcotics" is against the rules no?

I made a thread similar a few years back and it got banned.

I respect your opinion and I was just expressing mine.

 

[placebonaut]

It is nothing to do with that, doctor shopping or trying to "trick a gp into prescribing narcotics" is against the rules no?

not sure I read this thread as anyone trying to "trick" a GP into prescribing, it's much more about what is appropriate to prescribe and the double standards that we have to put up with

 

[4DQSAR]

Well, diamorphine isn't something you would get from a GP although I understand that HAT is a tool used in opiate detoxification in some areas. I only know that because my wife read Marianne Faithfull's autobiography and she was enrolled into HAT therapy. That said, she had been living ON a well for 18 months, almost died from pneumonia twice and so was pretty much been shown the yellow card.

Anything else that even has potential for abuse is limited to absolute necceccity. Often a wierd metric is employed, to whit 'to prevent unacceptable human suffering'. So with strong analgesics, it isn't pain per se, it's not functioning DUE to pain. Like not being able to leave your home for a year. Even then, it's generally a carer who is allowed to speak on your behalf who has to flag it. Asking yourself is 'drug seeking'.

Benzodiazepines, Z-drugs and similar have gone the way of barbiturates. Even now barbiturates are still in the BNF because people now in their dotage were haphazardly prescribed them when young and the risks of detoxification means better outcomes are achieved by continued prescribing. Same with benzodiazepines and Z-drugs - short-term/minimum-dose as like barbs, longer term use produces a dependency so severe that people are parked on them as the resources to detoxify are gone and for some, the risk means in-patinet detoxification would be required.

For some obscure reason Welsh GPs were fooled into thinking pregabalin was a 'safe' anxiolytic and now we see teens who are on daily pickup for the stuff and likely will be for as long as they want to be.

I can well see supervised consumption being the stick when abuse is the doctor's view. But they can and do get it wrong. But to end up physically dependant, one does need to take any of the above for a reasonable amount of time. If you fear flying, you will get a couple of 5mg diazepam but if a person is simply anxious all the time, medications that damp down the brain stop working within weeks so that person winds up just as anxious - but with a habit.

The only situation in which long-term benzodiazepines are prescribed are certain types of epilepsy. Even then, I think most people KNOW when they need them and the sensible ones only take a pill when they need it as taken every day means that person ends up with a habit and almost certainly the medications's effetiveness goes down.

That said, all manner of srtange medications are abused. Nefopam is a non-opioid analgesic considered as effective as morphine. In most people the major side-effect is anxiety but apparently cases of people taking MORE for the stimulant activity is mentioned in the BNF. Likewise certain 1st generation antihistamines. I know people on methadone would pay £1 per 50mg cyclizine tablet as for whatever reasons, whacking up cyclizine while taking a 3,3-diphenylhexanone opioid produces a rief put powerful rush. In the end, people were whacking up the pills every 10 minutes.. until they had a seizure.

Physical dependency is limited to certain medicines, psychological addiction is possible will almost anything psychoactive. I mean, people smoking IBS medication in UK prisons? Or abusing bupropion? Downright odd.

 

[Featherfall]

Hey @Bleaney ,

Thanks, man. That's decent of you. Yeah you definitely picked up on something there.

I wasn't particularly anxious but I'd made a couple of comments just joking about really but I see how someone reading it could take it the wrong way maybe. Just don't want to offend anyone when I'm not trying to. I'm respectful of women and people in general but my sense of humour can be a bit crass sometimes and humour doesn't always come across as intended when posting online.

I often post when UTI indeed and that day in general I managed to irritate some of my friends and people in life in general.

Thanks for that. Definitely something we will discuss at some point.

BB

considering what stims can do to the ability to overthink things i think that reaction makes sense lol, no worries xd

 

[4DQSAR]

BTW BE OLD is a good tactic. If you are in your 70s, a GP may rightly feel that it's worth the risks of prescribing a medication IF the result is an increase in 'healthy years' as isolation itself poses risks an not just the obvious ones i.e. a person getting very ill and nobody noticing. I mean if a patient ends up housebound, doing nothing and seeing noone, dementia becomes more likely.

It's always about outcomes. I believe John Cooper Clark is on record saying that when he enters his dotage, he will 'get back on the smack' on the basis that someone in their 80s or 90s whose is a performing poet is quite a good candidate for strong analgesics if it means they can continue to perform. But he nailed it concerning dependence-forming drugs:

First it's fun,
Then it's not,
Then it's hell

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

BTW BE OLD is a good tactic. If you are in your 70s,

Think this "Old Person disguise kit" will work? I just found it via Google.
I gotta look legit with it, I am sure the Doc will write if I look this old.

 

[placebonaut]

you need to practice some boomer sayings so you blend in, try this - “You want the exact prescription? Stop fussing. We took whatever pill was closest to the doctor’s hand and hoped for the best. Back in my day, you didn’t need the ‘right’ prescription. The doctor gave you whatever was in the drawer and told you to walk it off, nothing that can't be fixed with vicks and paracetamol”

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

you need to practice some boomer sayings so you blend in, try this - “You want the exact prescription? Stop fussing. We took whatever pill was closest to the doctor’s hand and hoped for the best. Back in my day, you didn’t need the ‘right’ prescription. The doctor gave you whatever was in the drawer and told you to walk it off.”

@LoginNotSecure

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

you need to practice some boomer sayings so you blend in, try this - “You want the exact prescription? Stop fussing. We took whatever pill was closest to the doctor’s hand and hoped for the best. Back in my day, you didn’t need the ‘right’ prescription. The doctor gave you whatever was in the drawer and told you to walk it off, nothing that can't be fixed with vicks and paracetamol”

 

[4DQSAR]

In fact it was more the case that bribary was the rule rather than the exception. Cash would be too obvious but a 3 night stay at a 5 star hotel in exchange for going to 2 30 minute lectures IS bribary.

As an example, in the 1970s the makers of Mogadon GAVE the drug to NHS hospitals as back then, every patient got a sleeping pill. Many wouldn't recall the name of the drug but that little sleeping face on the obverse meant that GPs KNEW what patients were asking for.

Now a UK GP has to declare any gift worth more than £2.74.

I sort of assume that in other nations, such tactics still exist in some places but the UK stopped at the DSM3-b as it became obvious that new mental illnesses were being invented and as if by magic, ONE pharmacutical company would have the ONE medication for that specific disorder e.g. alprazolam for GAD and now unipolar depression. This is termed 'indication creep'.

But the ABPI now values salesmanship over knowledge of domain. Here are examples of REAL questions from the 'exam'.

https://pharmacycpa.com/ABPI_Exam_Sample_Questions.pdf

I would be surprised if anyone here had to even think which is the correct answer. But however you do it, selling more product is the goal. I couldn't do it. I directly asked what if you KNOW a competitor has the better product? The answer was, don't mention the fact.

 

[placebonaut]

But however you do it, selling more product is the goal. I couldn't do it. I directly asked what if you KNOW a competitor has the better product? The answer was, don't mention the fact.

pharma reps are allowed to "give educational sessions" to people working in the NHS, there's meant to be strict guidelines but I've heard from multiple sources that product placement is a thing.

such BS

 

[4DQSAR]

...indication creep - why can't an antipsychotic also be perfect for unipolar depression and bipolar disorder? Because while schizophrania reduces life-expectancy by a DECADE, the risk-benefit makes the medication succeed in producing the best outcomes, but the DSM OPENLY takes bribes so yep, suddenly an incredibly promiscuous and toxic medication it let loose on a far wider range of patients.

That I have flagged.

 

[Bleaney]

if a person is simply anxious all the time, medications that damp down the brain stop working within weeks so that person winds up just as anxious - but with a habit.

I know of GABA downregulation in response to benzo use, but it has not been my experience that medications such as benzos stop working for anxiety within weeks. I'm at least 5 years into my current habit, and while my dose has increased in that time, this has not been to a massive or ridiculous extent, and they absolutely do still work for me, for both anxiety and for helping me sleep. I do things like taking much reduced minimal doses on those days when I'm at home alone, and generally have no anxiety, and I'm also gradually whitling away at the bed time dose, with a view of getting it down to zero in time.

I NEVER abuse them anymore by doing things like boshing entire blisters, "just for the buzz of it" as that kind of thing no longer appeals, and sends your tolerance rocketing upwards way too quickly.

In my experience, the brain's downregulation of its own GABA levels in response to habitual benzo use is exceedingly gradual, and literally takes place over several years. Unfortunately though I have to concede that when the time comes to quit, the re-upregulation of my brain's endogenous GABA levels to as "normal" as they will ever get for me, is also likely to be perhaps equally gradual. Possibly at least 12 months, even when following an extremely gradual Ashton Method taper. During my previous quit, things were still far from right 6 months afterwards, and it just didn't make sense at the time to continue facing massive psychological discomfort and unease every day, when all that could be taken away, and replaced with comfort and ease, with entirely minmal dosing, for a considerable time. This was the main benefit of that quit, in that it did reset my tolerance. And I also welcomed the opportunity for another complete reset during the Covid Lockdown.

 

[4DQSAR]

@Bleaney - that's it. Note in the booklet how typically house wives were prescribed a benzo and could not work out why their anxiety was getting worse. Because after a few weeks, they don't work so you are back at square one with a habit. Living on pill-o-clock which increases anxiety.

I think even the newer booklet notes that when Lifeline opened in the 1970s, the barb-fiend was the most regular client. Someone stuck in a tower block , isolated could buy reds, blues, traffic lights and duck eggs for 50p per and a lot of grannies caught on to this so their 28 pill helped keep them warm in winter. £14 WOULD cover a monthly gas bill at the time.

I would bet £1 that wih kratom legal, kava will soon come as whatever subjective examples, we know kavain is responsible for almost all of the psychoactive effects. It IS chiral with the (R) enantiomer being the natural one, but a few 'fine chemical' companies offer the immediate chiral precursor which is noted in a 2005 Chinese paper while a 2006 an Indian paper noted that biocatalysis produced yields of 46% using a biocatalyst.

So I would EXPECT someone to realize that kava per se isn't conterolled so neither is a 'full spectrum extract'. Would it work in a vape? Possibly. Would it result in a whole wave of people physically dependent - yes, that is exactly why 7-OHM is still able to slip through a loop-hole.

As of today, this is how it will be done:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/294439v1.full

I specified the nations because India produces vast quantities of L-PAC used in the legal synthesis of methamphetamine so they have specialists who could scale and scale fast.