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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Z-drugs vs. benzos (your Ambien vs. Benzo Thread is in this one now)

kokaino said:
I'm not regular poster anymore - I'm a moderator and I'm supposed to set an example, so I am not going to argue this with you any longer. You know the very basics - it's quite obvious. But I'll let you "win" this since you know more about this subject than someone with a Bachelors of Science in Medical Laboratory Technology (with a toxicology specialty).

First of all, I'll be very blunt - I'm ALWAYS very suspicious of anyone younger than 45-50 years old talking about they've done secobarbital or pentobarbital or amobarbital or any of those kinds of heavily regulated barbs. I'm not saying you're lying - but I'm suspicious of anyone younger than the ages I gave of their claim of having doing these barbs.

Your knowledge on the GABA(A) receptors are very basic (you know the α subunits and what they do, but you don't know deeper knowledge on the subtypes of these receptors).

I asked you to bring forth a source that barbiturates were good muscle relaxants and you give me your "own personal experience". How very scientific.

Like I said, I'll let you "win" this "debate". I'm not going to argue with you, it's obvious you only know the basics. Go and research allosteric regulation, enzyme kinetics, protein, protein ligands, and DNA.
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I wasn't trying to say I know more than you, I know you have more knowledge in this area. And I was also not looking to get into a debate or fight. I was only defending myself from what you were saying. All I was saying is that "I" get relief from muscle tension. This is from my experience with them. As for suspicions of anybody being younger than 50, well of course you are, it hasn't been prescribed in forever. I'm suspicious of anyone, I don't care how much knowledge they have, doesn't mean they really have used them before. Anybody can pick up a book. But in reality, I could actually give a fuck less if their lying about haven used them before.
 
K'd-OUT-in-AZ said:
I wasn't trying to say I know more than you, I know you have more knowledge in this area. And I was also not looking to get into a debate or fight. I was only defending myself from what you were saying. All I was saying is that "I" get relief from muscle tension. This is from my experience with them. As for suspicions of anybody being younger than 50, well of course you are, it hasn't been prescribed in forever. I'm suspicious of anyone, I don't care how much knowledge they have, doesn't mean they really have used them before. Anybody can pick up a book. But in reality, I could actually give a fuck less if their lying about haven used them before.
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I never said I used them and I haven't (the only barbs I've used are phenobarbital and butalbital), but I know they don't have muscle relaxant properties. Barbs didn't/don't have muscle relaxant properties - a select few did, but it was negligible (meaning nothing). That's why some were mixed with muscle relaxants to give them that quality.
 
^Could it not just be that you were relaxed from the barbs? Relaxation in general involves decreasing muscle tension...
 
so is it true that u can go crazy r a while of using benzos and z drugs because of the lack of rem sleep?
 
so is it true that u can go crazy r a while of using benzos and z drugs because of the lack of rem sleep?
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It is true that benzos and Z-drugs reduce REM sleep, but the amount of REM sleep they reduce depends greatly on personal reaction and the drug in question.

You can go crazy from complete lack of sleep, however.
 
gaga11 said:
so is it true that u can go crazy r a while of using benzos and z drugs because of the lack of rem sleep?
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I don't believe so, I was prescribed benzodiazepines & Z-Drugs for sleep for many years. I'm naturally crazy but I don't believe they made me crazier. Lack of sleep can make you go psychotic, hallucinations, paranoia, delirium...
 
The effects on sleep certainly don't help mental health... The degree of effects caused by this is hard to say, but some effects are surely happening.
 
Thank you for knowing what you are talking about(and also knowing how to spell!) Both make reading easier! And I found my answer thanks to your post! Have a great day!
 
Gaga11 - In my opinion, regular benzo withdrawal is WAAAY worse than not taking Ambien, I'll take Ambien(zolpidem) for 2 wks straight, suffer no withdrawals, but honestly find benzo withdrawal worse than opiate withdrawal(in my opinion), hope this info helps!
 
Short acting strong hypnotics. , below

etizolam - not as strong as the others but quite euphoric , shouldn't knock you out unless you take a few. This is not an RC and is perscribed in some countries.

tamazepam - quite euphoric , quick onset, mellow sleep.
Halcion, bromitazolam . Very strong hypnotics.

medizolam. Crazy strong for me. Knocks me out. And I am benzo tolerant. But that one blasts me up. It's supposed to much stronger iv'd.

i wouldn't IV a thing, but I suppose for a reason at the hospital it would be nice to feel it.
 
Honestly it's been a while since I've had a "Z" drug. I think it got to the point, and this may have been conflated witha budding mental disorder, that zolpidem didn't feel good anymore, just weird.

I used to love it to pieces. It took a while, but eventually I got on a drug combo which worked, and somewhere down the line I dropped zolpidem. Lunesta was similar, but longer-lasting. I had it prescribed during the phase which doctors and psychiatrists viewed the "Z" medications as much safer than benzodiazepines, which according to the data I've read is hardly a substantiated opinion.

Let's see, I've taken a whole host of benzos. And I haven't taken a "Z" medication in several years. But I would have to say that the "Z" drugs were less well-rounded with respect to efficacy in hypnosis, anxiolysis, amnesia, and muscle relaxing, though there were definitely several times when I'd taken so much zolpidem that I hardly cared about a thing in the world and didn't feel very much at all. The literature supports my experience.

I think that overall though, usually apart from benzodiazepines which take a while to manifest their effects and which are longer-acting, benzodiazepines are more pleasurable than the "Z" drugs. They're easier to function on, which makes sense, because the "Z" drugs are supposed to make you not function. In the end, I experienced the weird, trippy effects of the "Z" drugs as unpleasant, though again, there was a time when I absolutely loved zolpidem.
 
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