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Opioids Your Personal Opiate Withdrawal Arsenal

I agree but if I try and go to sleep after drinking I'll wake up in a worse state than before. Being hungover while wding sucks. I did know someone who would drink all day through wds, and I guess if you got the time to do that (no work or whatever) than sure. Its not to expensive to get drunk all day for a few days (40s)
 
Yeah waking up hungover and in wd ain't much fun. But I usually just try chill with 4 beers, just enough to have a nice beer rush without getting too drunk and in turn hungover.
 
GHB and Viminol: best drugs for opiates withdrawals

Hi everybody,

please be patient with my English.

As many of you, I'm here looking for informations about opiates withdrawals and how to ease them.
There are so many, many threads for opiates withdrawals. Everyone's got his opinion and his experience to share, but it really really sounds strange to me that nobody usually write about how GHB and Viminol could be helpful.

Where I live GHB is the main drug used during rehab to prevent withdrawals. And it works great. You surely know that GHB is also used to threat alcoholism withdrawals.

Another drug used to slow down withdrawals is Viminol, a very weak analgesic similar to other opiates (but lot weaker).

I'd like to say I'm not only talking about my experience but I'm talking about of the official healing protocol in the country where I live (Europe, G8's country).

Referring to my experience, when I have to detox myself from opiates, if I can't go to rehab, I try to use at home these drugs:

1) GHB (taken 3 times daily, every 8 hours... if you exceed this dose, you'll get coma. So be fu**ing fu**ing careful).
2) Viminol (you have to take this for 3 weeks... start with i.e. 10 pills a day, then 9, then, 8... that's gonna help in the next weeks).
3) Lyrica (you already know everything about it)
4) Loperamide
5) Clonidine (not too much, let's say 1/2 pill every 12 or 16 hours, or you'll get an intolerable sense of brain-burning...)
6) Some benzo (it depends on which I've got)
7) Trazodone and triazolam to get to sleep every night (also GHB can help with sleeping, if you get it before going to bed)
8) Buproprion 1-2 pills just woken up (that's for increase dopamine)

Then let me say that the two best times that I had got through withdrawals without feeling nothing at all, but a little cold (anyway it was summer) was when I used only cocaine for 4 days, GHB for 4 days, Lyrica for 4 days and a little bit of Loperamide. I can say I felt better than on a normal day. But I know that not everybody likes using cocaine in opiates withdrawals. I am one of the persons who can feel good with it.
Anyway I think you have to increase as much as you can, dopamine levels. If you're high on dopamine (GHB is also a dopamine agonist), you easily forget what you're going through.

The last thing I'd like to add is that in the first 3 days of your withdrawals, you can also take a little amount of opiates, for example to sleep at night, without ruining everything or having to start from the beginning. Maybe that's not true for heroin IV, but for morphine, oxycodone, and so on, it would be ok.
When I say "a little amount of opiates", I mean that for example, if you're used to take 100 mg of oxycodone everyday, while you're treating yourself with all the drugs above, it would be ok to take 10-15 mg of oxycodone before going to sleep.
Let's explain why doing a metaphor. If a Mu Receptor was a hole, and in your brain you had 100 holes, well, taking 100mg of morphine would fill every holes. To withdrawal is like making those holes close. It usually takes 4-6 days, meanwhile you can take a little bit of loperamide, morphine, viminol, to fill i.e. 20 holes while the other 80 close. Slowing down the amount of opiates you take, also the 20 holes would gradually close.
 
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I'm going to merge this in with the thread on what you personally use for withdrawal.
 
this last time i had a tar heroin habbit (first tar habbit, usually powder) i used lots and lots of dxm but got physically addicted to the dxm as i started to use them both together, the w/ds together were terrible, like a poster above me said; thank god for methadone, it always comes back to methadone so i have just given in to the idea that i will likely be on it forever as even in jail the w/ds last months and never actually go away in a timely enough fashion for me not to start going crazy. the last time (8 mos jail 1-1/2 years treatment)damaged me mentally. i am 33 and started using heroin at 18, i got on the program for the first time at 20 and have only had clean time in jail. basically i havnt felt normal w/o an opiate since i was 18. i would have liked to be on subs but thanks to circumstances methadone is the only option and thats ok i guess as it has never done me wrong as long as i have it. i love looong paragraphs!
 
Seed tea helps a ton (for obvious reasons) and I have found to be a wonderful taper tool because I don't actually enjoy it. A while back I was kicking like a mule and mixed up some seed tea, sipped a liter throughout the day and felt find. The next day half as much, the next day half of that ect.
 
Kokaino,
How much to you have to pay for your MMT if you don't mind me asking. Do you know of any free clinics or one's that charge on a sliding scale? Thank you in Advance. ArtCohen
 
Opioid WD toolbox: Harmalas

Most opioid users/ abusers here probably have a few tools in their arsenal when the time comes for withdrawal, the right comfort meds can really make a huge differance in the intensity of acute WD. I've tried and used many of them, here is i brief review of the effective ones:

Oxcarbazepine: Works wonders for tramadol withdrawal, it literally puts every WD symptome on hold. Needs to be fased out since the WD symptoms comes back when cutting the dose. In my limited experience it's not as effective on methadone and kratom WD:s, but my memory of it may be skewed. I can only vouch for it on tramadol WD:s, but there it works wonders.

Phenibut: Seems to be suprisingly selective on managing kratom WD:s, but it's not a magic bullet like oxcarbazepine is on tramadol WD:s. Symptoms are still there, but at least kratom induced withdrawal symptomes are greatly attenuated. Not really effective on other opioid WD:s IME, but it could be a dosage issue.

Loperamide: Seems to help quite a bit with most opioid induced withdrawals if you eat enough. Not a magic bullet though, and it needs to be fased out or WD:s return full force.

Pregabalin: Just tried it for the first time on methadone withdrawal. It's very efficiant and takes care of all symptoms. The mood stabalizing and anxiolytic effects really shines on this one, but this one needs to be fased out as well.

But here comes the reason for this post, I'm really baffled that there seems to be a complete lack of first hand accounts on the merits of utilizing harmalas to manage acute opioid withdrawal symptoms. I first discovered it's powers when I was dependent on kratom a few years ago. I was experimenting with microdoses of powdered banisteriopsis caapi vine, and to my suprise found myself sometimes "forgetting" my kratom doses which I'd normally be brutally reminded of by a running nose, aches and chills. The effects of kratom was not in any way potentiated by the vine, but the delay of the doses would not put me in WD as expected. This benefit of the caapi was duely noted, but no further experiments where undertaken at that time. However, just a quick google search revieled that the attenuating effect of harmalas on opioid (morphine in particular) withdrawal symptomes in rodents were thouroghly documented. Just a quick pick, there is a lot more:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001429990500676X
Click to expand...

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584604001034
Click to expand...

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0024320503006477
Click to expand...

Fast forward to today, I've used peganum harmala seeds to quickly taper out and withdrawing from a small (about 30 mg/day) 6 month old methadone habit. I use about 5 grams spread out a day (I've made capsules of the ground seeds, about 500 mg per cap) and I'm happy to say it helps alot. No insomnia, no restless legs (or arms!), no temperature fluctations or sweats! It is not as effective on anxiety or overall mood as pregabalin, but still, absolutely no lack of sleep and the complete absence of "restless arms" and other shitty pains when withdrawing from methadone is huge for me! It's been 2 weeks since I dropped the last dose of methadone. I'm completely broke and can't afford any other comfort meds, but I have in my possession more than 1.5 kg of Peganum harmala seeds so I will not run out anytime soon :)

I experience no psychoactivity from the amount of seed I'm consuming, I just pop the capsules spread out during the day, as soon as I'm beginning to feel cold, achy or restless another capsule halts the WD:s in it's tracks. My P.H seed dose is limited by a bit of upset stomach, but that is about the only side effect I experience.

Anyway, I only wanted to share this because as mentioned earler, I've never ever seen any personal accounts of this, and given it's percieved effectiveness, documented efficiancy, availability and price, it is absolutely baffeling it isn't raved about on forums like this. If I were to rate it it would fall just abit behind pregabalin in efficiancy, but it is quite available, non-addictive and practically free (I payed $55 for 2 kg, am I allowed to say this? 8( ). This is huge IMO :) Granted my current habit wasn't a huge one, but if it wasn't for the seeds, I'd be a complete mess right now.
 
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Wow I'm surprised that there hasn't been more replies, this is very interesting. What side effect do you get from the harmalas themselves at those doses and what WD symptoms are uneffected by the MAOIs besides anxiety? Do you go on the MAOI diet? I can imagine hypertesive crisis risk is increased during withdrawal.
 
I have from years of seeing the same doc and a great relationship:

Months and months of buprenorphine.
73- Xanax pills.
37- Valium pills.
186- tramadol
98- clonidine pills.
33- Lyrica pills.
98- nuvigil pills.
A ton of kratom.
13- hydrocodone pills.


I stay on buprenorphine almost always around 1-3 mg daily IVed and switch over to smack on the weekends.

I don't take Z drugs for rec.
 
1 - Oxycodone/Roxicodone/OP Oxycontin - this is to taper
2 - Carisoprodol (Soma), or if you cannot get that, Baclofen (Soma, if taken properly, and with caution, I will
personally opine is 15 times better but its tricky to do right that's why so many people bitch on these boards about Soma for WD
3 - Valium
4 - Klonapin and just 4 or 5 Xanax
5 - Adderall (I know, unconventional - but it replaces the hellish lost energy)
6 - Imodium
7 - Phenargen (promethazine)
8 - 8 8mg and 16 2mg SUBUTEX (not suboxone) pills and no more - this is only for the transition from the oxy - and from this to nothing in the opiate class
9 - Prolent (it's a professional nutritionitionist supplement meant to repair destroyed seratonin, GABA, and other elements that effect anxiety and sleep patterns containing L-theanine (as Suntheanine®), 5-hydroxytryptophan, Glycine, Vitamin B6 as Pyridoxal-5’-phosphate, NSB nutrient delivery system)
10 - Procite (the opposite of Prolent - it rebuilds dopamine and x - vitamin B6, Folate, vitamin B12, Mucuna pruriens (std. to 20% L-Dopa) 120 mg, Protease, Amylase, Lipase and BioPerine [std. to 95% piperine from Piper nigrum], and ... oh thats it for this one)
[NOTE: both 9 and 10 are by the company Sanesco and while there is zero chance of finding them in a supplement store - they only sell to those with licences... directly, you wont spend more than 4-6 minutes finding the legit products cheaper with a google search.]
11 - GABA Supplements
12 - Dandelion Root
13 - L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps), L-Methianone, and L-Glutamine supplements (available at GNC or Vitamin Shopper)
14 - Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement and a good, organic (this means the packets with many pills not one chemically-fused Centrum - the body cant extract the nutrients from that) vitamin regimen.
15 - A 10/90 or 20/80 mix (essential to carrier) of 3 parts French Lavender EO, 2 parts lemon EO, 2 parts Bosnian or Corsican Helichrysum EO, 1 part juniper berry EO, 1 part fennel, 1 Part Blue Tansy EO [optional], 2 parts Spike Lavender EO, 4 parts ROMAN chamomile EO, all mixed in either sweet almond (if you like to slowly massage), Marula Oil (if you just want it in with no grease), or Jojoba or Camellia (if you are in the middle) as a carrier oil - rub this into muscle spasms and aches as a topical - I swear it works wonders - also including 3 parts Lavindin Super EO cant hurt. Ginger and Eucalyptus in very small amounts arent bad either, and 2 parts Black Pepper EO is amazing - but honestly any blend with the key [bold] ingredients is golden.

ciao, Ryuichi
 
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If anyone at all is interested I would be happy to explain the exact process of how to detox pain free with the above, but it was getting SOOOOOOO long.

And I forgot one item - a good Mitochondrial supplement - I know the exact one - I just need to look. Ill edit later.=
 
This is what I need and do for a cold turkey:

- A place where I can be isolated from society or anyone aside form a select few friends for 3-4 days

These things to keep your alive and nutrition levels adequate:
- Vitamin water
- yogurt
- bananas and oranges
- cereal w/milk (Reeses or Cocoa puffs preferred)
- A multi vitamin, Mg supplement, B complex supplement,

These things make the whole situation bearable and get you through it:
- A benzo, preferred in this order (clonaz, diaz, loraz. alpraz...never tried any others, maybe temaz but very little experience if I did it)
- Some good beer, Magic Hats seem to go down nicely considering hr situation
- Some real good bud, not bunk or mid grade shit will do. and also it has to be an indica or indica strong hybrid b/c it is less likely to induce anxiety (the Granddaddy Purple strain was ime the best weed for the situation)
- Loperamide is stressed by many, I have it on hand, in case. But I usually don't feel the need for it, I purge my bowels early in the w/d and after that its not so bad.

-Access to a hot tub is pretty fucking clutch, not necessary.

I basically try to go as long as possible without relying on the comfort meds. If you can make it to 48 hours past your last dose(this is quite tough), then you will find the rest is pretty easy from there on. Because at that point I will just put myself into a benzo'd out and stoned state of ind for the next couple days. The beer helps to sleep, But only a couple. You aren't gonna want to drink anything near enough to get a hangover anyway. At that point you are just trying to numb yourself and induce sleep. So a good amount of benzos, a few beers and then smoking some of the quality bud and you are probably not feeling too bad and will eventually get so exhausted you will pass out. I assume at this point you have not slept since the w/d started. So getting 4-6 hours and you wake up and feel better. From there just stay benzo'd and stoned and it'll pass. The marijuana helps a ton with appetite, too. Which it helps a ton to get some real food down.
 
My personal WD kit contains:

Kratom
Poppy
Imodium
Gabapentin/Lyrica
Xanax
A little Tramadol as needed.
 
my personal wd kit contains-
advil pm for sleep w/ socks tied around my feet
fuck all else, nothing works its all in your head, pot makes wd worse for me so does xanax
imo, suffering is the best way to beat it call me crazed

i believe that one must pay the debt they owe to dope/ opiates
 
My kit contains: Phencyclidine. Don't know why I would need anything else ever for opiate withdrawal since it almost completely abolishes all sense of pain and therefore makes it endurable. Add some weed to it and you can sleep too after a few days. I add 500-1000mg magnesium glycinate daily to increase the painkilling effect of the PCP.

If you can handle some more pain and got a bigger wallet ketamine is probably the "healthier" choice.

I also see to it I have lots of cans of tomato soup for consumption and like 1tb of porn and other movies to keep me busy.

I avoid all GABAergics like the plague because I'm definitely done replacing one withdrawal with another one that's worse.
 
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^Yea I'd call you crazy. Surprised that Xanax doesn't help you. If nothing else you can possibly sleep if you take enough. Honestly I prefer a longer acting benzo like clonazepam or diazepam, but any is better than none. Advil PM wouldn't do shite for me in w/d, if its the same as Tylenol PM then its just the name brand with diphenhydramine. The diphenhydramine can actually make RLS worse, but with a ton of benzos on top of it I think its the best bet for some sleep in w/d.

As for the pot, I don't care much for it either. Maybe a couple hits while I am loaded up on benzos and a couple beers on top, because otherwise its gonna ramp up the anxiety to very uncomfortable levels.
 
For RLS, I use diazepam and if I can, carisoprodol (Soma) as needed.

For general acute WD I use quetiapine (Seroquel) to sleep as much of it out as possible. Definitely hate being conscious in WD. Kicking is not something I like to be awake for, but this is probably universal for the most part I guess.

For some reason I get some relief also from ondansetron (Zofran) and there is some research out there about this AND quetiapine (Seroquel) having something to do with easing WD symptoms for opioids. Be careful with this because it can cause long QT syndrome just like methadone does. Be careful taking multiple combinations of drugs that lengthen QT especially those of you with pre-existing heart conditions.

I definitely smoke a lot of medicinal high quality cannabis extracts when WDing because of the research that shows cannabinoids and opioid systems working together somehow internally, it's always eased WD symptoms AND potentiated certain opioids for me especially oxymorphone and heroin. Anyways, I'm a heavy medicinal cannabis user anyways. I unfortunately am in the process of quitting cigarettes/nicotine/cancer. I avoid things like alcohol with a ten foot pole, the only antihistamine I'd take would be hydroxyzine, DPH has too many side effects for me. Clonidine maybe depending on what I've already taken. Temazepam, triazolam, alprazolam, diazepam for the most part with seroquel and medicinal cannabis extracts.
 
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