Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Yea, I'm sure kratom wouldn't hurt, but if you can get them there are certainly better aids out there
-
OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Opioids Your Personal Opiate Withdrawal Arsenal
- Thread starter Lindhorst
- Start date
Flabu
Bluelighter
Sleep
video games / movies / music
talking with people
eating (unless the nausea is bad to the point where food is repulsive)
Water, water, and more water.
On the med side:
Methadone would help a ton, suboxone might help a little bit
Klonapin
Immodium (I think its taken off the shelf but there are generics available)
video games / movies / music
talking with people
eating (unless the nausea is bad to the point where food is repulsive)
Water, water, and more water.
On the med side:
Methadone would help a ton, suboxone might help a little bit
Klonapin
Immodium (I think its taken off the shelf but there are generics available)
lazylazyjoe
Bluelighter
Just remember, even if you have the perfect kick kit ready. It won't do you shit if you get arrested or sent to some inpatient facility.
I had a nice stash kit :clonodine,dxm,methadone,Bupe,Valium, doxylamine.
None of it did me good in jail. And even if you think you;re immune; there's always gonna be some desperate junky naming names, to get a deal. It took 5 years for my first arrest. And I was slingin for 2 years.
I had a nice stash kit :clonodine,dxm,methadone,Bupe,Valium, doxylamine.
None of it did me good in jail. And even if you think you;re immune; there's always gonna be some desperate junky naming names, to get a deal. It took 5 years for my first arrest. And I was slingin for 2 years.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
SaosinEngaged
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2010
- Messages
- 449
I've never had a problem with WD using the following items:
- Tramadol (100-150mg/day of WD, not meant to do anything more than take the EDGE off by allowing SOME mu agonism)
- Lyrica (about 300-450mg/day, this is the bread and butter opiate WD stopper. I find it relieves at least 80% of the symptoms to a degree where you ALMOST feel good. Start at 3x 100mg /day, if that's not enough increase to 150mg or if you really need it, 200mg 3x/day)
- Kratom (2x daily, bread and butter opiate WD fighter, allows for an even smaller amount of mu agonism, but enough to take the edge off, especially if used with Tramadol)
- .5-1mg/day, usually at night, of Clonozepam (You have a few other drugs in your system, keep the dosage low. None of the above drugs are really strong enough to be dangerous mixed with a small dose of a long half life benzo such as this. I've never had a problem and I have no benzo tolerance and it WILL take the edge off the mental side effects combined with the other meds and should help you sleep)
- Magnesium + a GOOD multivitamin
- Immodium (IF you feel you still need it, I personally didn't with the above)
With the above, I've successfully kicked my Oxy habit at least 4 times. You can substitute the Tramadol OR the Kratom but I would at least keep one of them in there so you get a small amount of mu agonism that will really slightly lessen the intensity of the WD. The Lyrica is the bread and butter WD stopper for whatever the reason, it just makes you feel better. The benzo (I prefer Klonopin here because of the long halflife) will allow you to sleep with the lyrica combined in your system (both together should knock you out) and make your mind calmer. The multivitamins and immodium are a no -brainer.
I will add, it may seem like you're combining a lot of things with a benzo, but Tramadol is a VERY weak opiate. I've combined 400mg of Tramadol with no benzo tolerance and 1mg of Kpin and had 0 respiratory side effects or anything worrysome. Plus you're going to be splitting up minor 50mg doses throughout the day. I promise you this is all safe. I know everyone is different so it's always best to use with caution so DOSE SLOWLY THE FIRST DAY OF WD, MEASURE HOW YOUR BODY RESPONDS TO THE COMBINATION OF THE ABOVE MEDS. You should be fine and, It works miracles. More often than not, you won't even realize you're in WD. The smaller your habit, the more effective this combo is, but the most I've come off of is about 180mg Oxy/day and this combo made the WD minor.
The biggest downside to this method is, depending upon your situation, the difficulty in obtaining any or all of these medications. So if you have a habit and know you're going to be stopping sometime in the near future, I'd recommend you stock up on small-moderate quantities of the above medications if/when you come across them. Just put them away for when you're going to WD.
Feel free to PM me if you'd like further information or my findings for dosage administration/day that works best. I feel like I've become a pro at opiate WD because I've found this method to make it painless and I'd love nothing more than to share it with someone so they don't feel helpless. You will not build any dependence to the above medications from the 3-6 days you will be using them. I'd discontinue the Clonozepam first on the first day you feel you're able to go without it, followed by the Tramadol, followed by the Kratom, and then the Lyrica.
Of course, probably the best and easiest (in terms of # of things you need) method of Opiate detox is a 6 day bupe taper. But in order to do that successfully and painlessly you REALLY have to research and understand Buprenorphine and dose properly. It's like a more advanced way to detox, but like I said, there's a shit ton of information you need to read up on Bupe before you can successfully use it for a short taper. Even administering it has a learning curve.
- Tramadol (100-150mg/day of WD, not meant to do anything more than take the EDGE off by allowing SOME mu agonism)
- Lyrica (about 300-450mg/day, this is the bread and butter opiate WD stopper. I find it relieves at least 80% of the symptoms to a degree where you ALMOST feel good. Start at 3x 100mg /day, if that's not enough increase to 150mg or if you really need it, 200mg 3x/day)
- Kratom (2x daily, bread and butter opiate WD fighter, allows for an even smaller amount of mu agonism, but enough to take the edge off, especially if used with Tramadol)
- .5-1mg/day, usually at night, of Clonozepam (You have a few other drugs in your system, keep the dosage low. None of the above drugs are really strong enough to be dangerous mixed with a small dose of a long half life benzo such as this. I've never had a problem and I have no benzo tolerance and it WILL take the edge off the mental side effects combined with the other meds and should help you sleep)
- Magnesium + a GOOD multivitamin
- Immodium (IF you feel you still need it, I personally didn't with the above)
With the above, I've successfully kicked my Oxy habit at least 4 times. You can substitute the Tramadol OR the Kratom but I would at least keep one of them in there so you get a small amount of mu agonism that will really slightly lessen the intensity of the WD. The Lyrica is the bread and butter WD stopper for whatever the reason, it just makes you feel better. The benzo (I prefer Klonopin here because of the long halflife) will allow you to sleep with the lyrica combined in your system (both together should knock you out) and make your mind calmer. The multivitamins and immodium are a no -brainer.
I will add, it may seem like you're combining a lot of things with a benzo, but Tramadol is a VERY weak opiate. I've combined 400mg of Tramadol with no benzo tolerance and 1mg of Kpin and had 0 respiratory side effects or anything worrysome. Plus you're going to be splitting up minor 50mg doses throughout the day. I promise you this is all safe. I know everyone is different so it's always best to use with caution so DOSE SLOWLY THE FIRST DAY OF WD, MEASURE HOW YOUR BODY RESPONDS TO THE COMBINATION OF THE ABOVE MEDS. You should be fine and, It works miracles. More often than not, you won't even realize you're in WD. The smaller your habit, the more effective this combo is, but the most I've come off of is about 180mg Oxy/day and this combo made the WD minor.
The biggest downside to this method is, depending upon your situation, the difficulty in obtaining any or all of these medications. So if you have a habit and know you're going to be stopping sometime in the near future, I'd recommend you stock up on small-moderate quantities of the above medications if/when you come across them. Just put them away for when you're going to WD.
Feel free to PM me if you'd like further information or my findings for dosage administration/day that works best. I feel like I've become a pro at opiate WD because I've found this method to make it painless and I'd love nothing more than to share it with someone so they don't feel helpless. You will not build any dependence to the above medications from the 3-6 days you will be using them. I'd discontinue the Clonozepam first on the first day you feel you're able to go without it, followed by the Tramadol, followed by the Kratom, and then the Lyrica.
Of course, probably the best and easiest (in terms of # of things you need) method of Opiate detox is a 6 day bupe taper. But in order to do that successfully and painlessly you REALLY have to research and understand Buprenorphine and dose properly. It's like a more advanced way to detox, but like I said, there's a shit ton of information you need to read up on Bupe before you can successfully use it for a short taper. Even administering it has a learning curve.
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Escapedysphoria
Ex-Bluelighter
1. Buprenorphine taper (On bupe maintenance currently: prescribed 16mg a day, but started off with prescribed dosage and now take 2mg at a time-made this decision on my own due to self-educating-due to the increase of the metabolite norbupe ratio; more full agonist effects)
3. Tram with Bupe or Tramadol by itself
2. Pregabalin or gabapentin
3. Benzodiazepines particularly diazepam and clonazepam due to strong muscle relaxant properties and duration. Alprazolam for strong anxiolytic purposes that may be needed ASAP when wd'ing.
4. Aleve (Naproxen Sodium) helps out with the unbearable, and usually lower back pain
5. Ibuprofen
6. Loperamide
7. Diphenhydramine for nausea and sedative properties; Seroquel 50mg IMO for sleep and very sedating effects. My friend swears by it for stomach pains; I'd agree. Gives me an appetite!
8. Z-Drugs such as Zolpidem for instant hypnotic properties/sleep
9. Sleep and exercise... when possible
10. Green Tea, water, and Gatorade. Stay hydrated!
11. Nutritious diet
12. Good multivitamin supplement; magnesium and potassium.
13.DXM
13. Something to occupy your mind (books, movies, internet ect)
14. KETAMINE! if possible to obtain. Great for the constant dysphoria by providing euphoria.
*EDIT! HOT SHOWERS ARE CRUCIAL!
3. Tram with Bupe or Tramadol by itself
2. Pregabalin or gabapentin
3. Benzodiazepines particularly diazepam and clonazepam due to strong muscle relaxant properties and duration. Alprazolam for strong anxiolytic purposes that may be needed ASAP when wd'ing.
4. Aleve (Naproxen Sodium) helps out with the unbearable, and usually lower back pain
5. Ibuprofen
6. Loperamide
7. Diphenhydramine for nausea and sedative properties; Seroquel 50mg IMO for sleep and very sedating effects. My friend swears by it for stomach pains; I'd agree. Gives me an appetite!
8. Z-Drugs such as Zolpidem for instant hypnotic properties/sleep
9. Sleep and exercise... when possible
10. Green Tea, water, and Gatorade. Stay hydrated!
11. Nutritious diet
12. Good multivitamin supplement; magnesium and potassium.
13.DXM
13. Something to occupy your mind (books, movies, internet ect)
14. KETAMINE! if possible to obtain. Great for the constant dysphoria by providing euphoria.
*EDIT! HOT SHOWERS ARE CRUCIAL!
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handofdoom66
Greenlighter
Best detox
For me methadone is the best by far. i would get an outfit break off the point and then use it to measure my dose everyday. I would use 1cc outfit, find the right dose to just let me function then start reducing 5 units everyday and use Lyrica the magic drug of all drugs for the dope fiend. I have kicked this way minus the lyica for 25yrs. It takes a little longer but very little Withdrawals. I would even through in a party day once in awhile. Doing it right now very little pain i'm down to about 10 mgs of methadone, should be about another 2 weeks to be off of this shit. Then clean for a while then back into the spoon.
"Don't die before you're dead".
For me methadone is the best by far. i would get an outfit break off the point and then use it to measure my dose everyday. I would use 1cc outfit, find the right dose to just let me function then start reducing 5 units everyday and use Lyrica the magic drug of all drugs for the dope fiend. I have kicked this way minus the lyica for 25yrs. It takes a little longer but very little Withdrawals. I would even through in a party day once in awhile. Doing it right now very little pain i'm down to about 10 mgs of methadone, should be about another 2 weeks to be off of this shit. Then clean for a while then back into the spoon.
"Don't die before you're dead".
tricomb
Bluelight Crew
Who recommended PCP?
muvolution
Bluelight Crew
Okay, some things that need to be said: using pharmacological methods to solve wd's is not always the best route, especially when you are trying to use drugs which are not indicated, and have largely never been used for this purpose.
DO NOT TRY YOUR OWN RAPID DETOX AT HOME. Naloxone and naltrexone are for use only in emergency situations when not under direct medical care.trying to aenesthiize yourself with DXM, MXE, PCP or Ketamine could result in a very dangerous situation. Anytime this procedure is performed under medical care, you will be monitored for vitals, given oxygen, and generally be in a much safer environment.
This is especially important when considering that there are possible unknown interactions between DXM or MXE/and naloxone, and actually, among many of the drugs listed in this thread.
In the interest of hr, here is a quide to meds for opiate withdraw.
(First-line. Safest. Most researched)
Opiates (When used as part of a rapid tapr. No more than 7 days)
Clonidine
Ibuprofin
Immodium
(Second-line. Combinations can be dangerous. Used sparingly by medical professionals)
Benzos
Barbituates
Pregabalin
Gabapentin
Soma
Flexeril
Again, no on knows about long term effects of these, especially when used to combate opiate withdraw.
(Third-line. Untested. No use in medicine)
MXE
PCP
KETAMINE,
DXM,
IBOGAINE
(Counter-Indicated. Either psychological or physical interaction with symptoms of withdraw.)
MDMA, MDxx
Methamphetamine
Mephedrone
LSD
Psilocybe Cubensis
Cannabis*
Amphetamines (Dexedrine, Adderall, etc)
Anabolic Steroids
HGH
Alcohol
Nicotine
Caffeine
*Marijuana can go either way. If you are a regular smoker and not prone to paranoia and panic episodes, it will relax your muscles, help regulate your temperature, settle your stomache, and relieve gi distress.
On the flip side, if you are prone to excitement when smoking, or smoking heavy sativas, I would not recommend marijuana during opiate withdraw.
DO NOT TRY YOUR OWN RAPID DETOX AT HOME. Naloxone and naltrexone are for use only in emergency situations when not under direct medical care.trying to aenesthiize yourself with DXM, MXE, PCP or Ketamine could result in a very dangerous situation. Anytime this procedure is performed under medical care, you will be monitored for vitals, given oxygen, and generally be in a much safer environment.
This is especially important when considering that there are possible unknown interactions between DXM or MXE/and naloxone, and actually, among many of the drugs listed in this thread.
In the interest of hr, here is a quide to meds for opiate withdraw.
(First-line. Safest. Most researched)
Opiates (When used as part of a rapid tapr. No more than 7 days)
Clonidine
Ibuprofin
Immodium
(Second-line. Combinations can be dangerous. Used sparingly by medical professionals)
Benzos
Barbituates
Pregabalin
Gabapentin
Soma
Flexeril
Again, no on knows about long term effects of these, especially when used to combate opiate withdraw.
(Third-line. Untested. No use in medicine)
MXE
PCP
KETAMINE,
DXM,
IBOGAINE
(Counter-Indicated. Either psychological or physical interaction with symptoms of withdraw.)
MDMA, MDxx
Methamphetamine
Mephedrone
LSD
Psilocybe Cubensis
Cannabis*
Amphetamines (Dexedrine, Adderall, etc)
Anabolic Steroids
HGH
Alcohol
Nicotine
Caffeine
*Marijuana can go either way. If you are a regular smoker and not prone to paranoia and panic episodes, it will relax your muscles, help regulate your temperature, settle your stomache, and relieve gi distress.
On the flip side, if you are prone to excitement when smoking, or smoking heavy sativas, I would not recommend marijuana during opiate withdraw.
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lazylazyjoe
Bluelighter
^Sorry. I should have made sarcasm a tag. I thought the part about your kidney being stolen was enough. Feel free to UA it.
I apologize if my thread was against the mission of HR. I had no intention of recommending someone trade one drug addiction for another and I was honestly just trying to gauge and learn what other people did when they were trying to kick or forced to kick (though not in jail, and that point was very well taken). Thanks for the breakdown muvolution. It seems like a fairly good gauge for how far you want to go in your own WD situation.
EDIT: I actually though gabapentin and lyrica were usually first line treatments these days, at least for the RLS/muscle aches, though that may just be my own subjective experience.
EDIT: I actually though gabapentin and lyrica were usually first line treatments these days, at least for the RLS/muscle aches, though that may just be my own subjective experience.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
^no, I believe you're correct. Other than opioids like bupe and methadone, nuerontin and clonidine are the standard treatments provided by doctors who know what they're doing/actually care about and want to minimize the suffering of their patients.
Many detoxes do not provide these drugs (well, they're generally going to prescribe the clonidine, but often not the gaba), but as far as I'm concerned they're often more about making money than truly putting their patents first...![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Many detoxes do not provide these drugs (well, they're generally going to prescribe the clonidine, but often not the gaba), but as far as I'm concerned they're often more about making money than truly putting their patents first...
muvolution
Bluelight Crew
Despite whether or not neurontin may be useful in wd, it should be treated with caution as we don't know how it interacts with wds.
I wasn't criticising anyon, just pointing out that the less meds you mix, the better off you will be.
I wasn't criticising anyon, just pointing out that the less meds you mix, the better off you will be.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Really muv? I always thought it (nuerontin) was commonly used to provide some relatively potent relief, at least to some. Absolutely true about how less is more, I couldn't agree with you more.
Nonetheless, I'm interested in learning some of the reasons arguing against it's use to help manage acute w/d. Could you explain?
And btw, although this is true, they are beginning to test ketamine and other NMDA antagonists in their efficacy to treating treatment resistant drug addiction, depression and anxiety. But of course, all we have are experiments and now trials in their earliest of stages. Nothing conclusive for sure atm.
At the end of the day though, I do think the post of your I quoted from here is really spot on. I like how you listed medicines in terms of safety... I mean, I guess that should have been obvious but it would seem that we all got caught up in our own solutions and overlooked the obvious.
Nonetheless, I'm interested in learning some of the reasons arguing against it's use to help manage acute w/d. Could you explain?
And btw, although this is true, they are beginning to test ketamine and other NMDA antagonists in their efficacy to treating treatment resistant drug addiction, depression and anxiety. But of course, all we have are experiments and now trials in their earliest of stages. Nothing conclusive for sure atm.
At the end of the day though, I do think the post of your I quoted from here is really spot on. I like how you listed medicines in terms of safety... I mean, I guess that should have been obvious but it would seem that we all got caught up in our own solutions and overlooked the obvious.
Last edited by a moderator:
timetohunt
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2007
- Messages
- 334
Tramadol, Bupe, and Methadone are not WD arsenal material. Just extending till the next major fix. I understand that tapering methods can
be achieved from these but if you want completely out ? A lot of good suggestions here though and you should heed those.
be achieved from these but if you want completely out ? A lot of good suggestions here though and you should heed those.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Well, tramadol, bupe and methadone have helped many, many people successfully w/d and leave opioids behind. certainly haven't helped everyone who's tried them, but to discredit them outright is a little narrow minded... I mean, I kind of agree with you in terms of my own experience, as I see the mind as the most powerful w/d tool, and I've never used any of those tools to w/d, but even then I don't discredit them outright in terms of other people...
lazylazyjoe
Bluelighter
If done right in a controlled setting, a couple small doses of long acting opioids followed by a dose or two of a weak short acting one, can make quite a difference. It might take longer, but it's easier to do.
I'm curious about the kratom being used to help. There seem to be endless varieties. Anyone that can throw out a suggestion for the best kind to get specifically for WDs? I'm guessing something near the strongest, but then again, that just might lead to a longer withdrawal period.
muvolution
Bluelight Crew
Check the Kratom megathread for info about different varieties. For some reason I want to say Bali is the best for sedation.
As for the assertion that tramadol, bupe, and methadone have no place being used for wd's, I disagree. Using opiates for wd's is extremely safe, and if used correctly over a rapid taper, are effective and relatively painless.
As for the assertion that tramadol, bupe, and methadone have no place being used for wd's, I disagree. Using opiates for wd's is extremely safe, and if used correctly over a rapid taper, are effective and relatively painless.
muvolution
Bluelight Crew
Quoted for the edit. Feel free to expound on this.