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Your +4 Recipes

IamMe90 said:
I still find it hard to believe that something as benign as candyflipping could get you to a ++++ at all, let alone consistently.

ESPECIALLY find it hard to believe that you reached ++++ on MDMA alone. Not that I don't love MDMA, but I don't think it's really a drug that lends itself to deep intellectual/transcendental exploration, for god's sake it's in-your-face euphoria and love. Being deeply connected to others, even to the point of ego loss, hardly fits the bill of a ++++, at least Shulgin's description.
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You don't need any substance at all to reach the ++++ state... meditation and prayer alone also can get you there, drugs can facilitate the way to get there, they themselfes are not the way ;)

i find that most every trip i have is at one point ++++, that's the whole point in taking these substances for me...
 
RainbowWarrior said:
You don't need any substance at all to reach the ++++ state... meditation and prayer alone also can get you there, drugs can facilitate the way to get there, they themselfes are not the way ;)

i find that most every trip i have is at one point ++++, that's the whole point in taking these substances for me...
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Exactly...++++ is about shamanism and spirituality and not about "tripping hard". I find that less is more for me; I find that comboing two substances at ++ levels to be the key to being able to get into a certain meditative state consistently.
 
Gotta be careful with delineating between a peak experience of your personal drug history and a truly transcendental experience. Both can exist together, but a peak experience with a drug in your history of use doesn't imply that it was truly transcendental (++++ experience). Just because it is the most fucked up you've ever been doesn't mean it is a ++++. I feel like thats where some people get a little of from what a ++++ is supposed to describe (I'm not saying all ++++ are the same, or contain the same characteristics)
 
cryptix420 said:
Hm.


Well is it safe to say that any subsequent ++++'s off the same substance would have just a little bit less of the magic than the first time (thus really being like a 3.9 and not a 4)? I really do feel that the brain savors novel experiences quite a bit.

I mean think of MDMA...that first real roll is mind numbingly euphoricly awesome. Subsequent rolls can also be fantastic, but never really like the first, just because you know what to expect.
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I agree with what someone already said, that MDMA might be wonderful, but that it is unlikely to produce ++++ experiences.

I believe that you are very attached to novelty. My ++++ experiences have been in no way dependent on novelty. In fact, your statements make me wonder how comparable your ++++ experiences are with my own.

For me, at least (though many, many others would agree with me), it's not exactly like visiting a new country, and then going back the second time and saying "I remember this from my first visit".

It's more like, on your first visit, saying "I remember this from before I was born".

I suppose that what I am trying to say is this: if your ++++ experience depends on novelty, it might not be what I consider a ++++ experience.
 
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I think I'm just not likin' this thread. Sort of a lame version of dicksizing (if dicksizing isn't lame enough already, lol).

Props to all those who achieve repeated ++++'s tho.
 
I'd like the opinions of some people who have also got to ++++

Is a ++++ always an ego death experience? If so, is every ego death a ++++?

My ++++ also involved ego death and they seem to go hand in hand.. from my limited experience it seems when you shed your ego all you are left with is the godhead/oneness/cosmic consciousness ...opinions?
 
Honestly the whole scale is a silly attempt to quantify transcendent experiences. It leads to nitpicking and hair splitting as to what a transcendent experience even is. So fuck this thread and anyone trying tell someone else that there experiences somehow don't count.

And the dude who called LSD and mdma benign substances.. lol. You're a prentious asshole. No one gives a fuck about your pseudo intellectual ramblings on subjectivity. Take that shit to the philosophy forum. 8)
 
Well, it's true, MDMA is a benign substances, it shoves euphoria in your face and insists upon it. Do you know what benign means? I'm not trying to belittle anyone, only offer my opinion concerning the content of the thread... so chill out.
 
You're not trying to belittle anyone but you're asking if I know what benign means? lol


And yea that came off pretty angry lol. Sorry.. this thread is pretty wack though so im gonna bail.
 
psilocybonaut said:
8)

This is just further proving that you will not know when you've had a ++++ until you've had one. You don't "get ++++s regularly". That just doesn't happen. People here don't understand that a ++++ is not just tripping really hard.

I'm sure you got to a +3 or +3.5, but people need to understand that a +3.5 can involve leaving your body, entity contact, etc etc etc. It seems people have overlooked Shulgin's statement about a "rare and precious transcendental state". If it was so fucking easy, I would have had 100s by now.

The majority of psychedelic users don't ever experience a ++++ in their life. (yes that is a generalization, but I think it is very true)

++++s are LIFE CHANGING. If you got a ++++ everytime you did lsd+mdma, how would that fit the description of a ++++ at all? (i'm not attacking you, I'm just using your example to show why I believe this)
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oh yea and this guy... who are you even quoting in your thread? cause this is what i actually said:

.Lucid. said:
all of my "+4" experiences have been off the same substances.. lsd + mdma repeatedly brings me back to that same god space it first took me too.
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youre making lots of assumptions about me and my personal experiences and you didnt even bother to use my actual quote? lame.

8)8)8)
 
some of you need to smoke a blunt and chill its not that serious. way to much ego in this thread. we are all one remember? lay off the hatred.
 
.Lucid. said:
Honestly the whole scale is a silly attempt to quantify transcendent experiences. It leads to nitpicking and hair splitting as to what a transcendent experience even is. So fuck this thread and anyone trying tell someone else that there experiences somehow don't count.

And the dude who called LSD and mdma benign substances.. lol. You're a prentious asshole. No one gives a fuck about your pseudo intellectual ramblings on subjectivity. Take that shit to the philosophy forum. 8)
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I don't think people are trying to quantify anything... Trying to qualify the transcendental experience is what really the argument is over... I understand your point that, it is impossible to really delineate what a transcendent experience is, but there has to be a point where ++++'s are separated from +++'s for clarity sake. If you don't give two shits about trying to find a common scale to be able to grasp the ideas of others in terms of qualitative experiences, you shouldn't even be in this thread, as you clearly don't care about the use of shulgins scale (which is not a problem, I'm not trying to be little you on that fact). What is happening is people are getting up set because people are destructing the purpose of the shulgin scale and its defined (though very large wiggle room if you ask me) parameters, and people do not agree. A peak experience in your drug career (in terms of intensity) doesn't make your experience a ++++. That is what people are trying to get across. There is a difference between having your balls on the ceiling and truly finding an experience that transcends all aspects of space and time, creating a world of bliss or universal connectedness (you get the point). Its not "holy shit I'm tripping balls, I've never felt this good before!!!!!"

I've had experiences that were mentally and physically orgasmic, but don't really fit the picture of what a really ++++ is. Even with the most intense and magnificent DMT experience I had on 4 hits of LSD, it doesn't fit the description. Even though it was influential, and a +3.9 (:P), the experience just wasn't a ++++.


psilocybonaut speaks the truth
 
this thread is getting lame. I hope we can get back to talking about the "+4 recipes" instead of debating about what ++++ is.
 
Cloudy said:
That is what people are trying to get across. There is a difference between having your balls on the ceiling and truly finding an experience that transcends all aspects of space and time, creating a world of bliss or universal connectedness (you get the point). Its not "holy shit I'm tripping balls, I've never felt this good before!!!!!"
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again, why would you assume that im confusing a transcendent experience for "holy shit I'm tripping balls, I've never felt this good before!!!!!" seriously? why would you make that assumption? youre going to quantify the level of profundity of my psychedelic experiences? yea ok.

trying to quantify the unquantifiable makes no sense and misses the entire point. im going to add a level to the scale.. +5. no one's had a +5, IN FACT, no one even knows what a +5 is until theyve had it and i've approved their method of achieving a "+5." lol fuck that.
 
no one's actually quantifying anything, they're qualifying. +1, +2, etc, are arbitrarily chosen symbols designated to correlate to specific qualified experiences. at least, that's how I'm gauging what's going on here.

for instance: instead of + 1 and +4 you could simply say threshold level and transcendental level, respectively.
 
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