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x is safe

Thanks Mazdan for the links. I have made a thorough perusal of all hppd-related threads, but for those new to it, those are some good start off points. Since i couldnt see what amphetamine had written, i can only assume that he had some very harsh words. Im guessing something to the effect that i stop whining about my condition, sicne it's not so bad. I didnt post in this thread as a sob story, I did it for AWARENESS of an issue that is extremely neglected when it comes to MDMA.

I never knew about it, and thought MDMA was pretty safe, provided it's used correctly. This proved to be wrong. That was the point i'm trying to make. Amphetamine, i truly honestly am glad that visual snow doesnt bother you. You posts were some of the first I read when searching the database. It seems you got these effects, didnt mind them so much and moved on, and for this I am glad for you. Remember though, that your vs might not be as intense as everyone elses. Use the simulator at visualsnow.com. Cranking it up can make a big difference. Also sometimes VS can be associated with a lack of balance/spacey feeling. Without this, yes it might not be THAT bad. Anyway, I'm really not offended if you think im being a crybaby, cuz you can tell all this to the tons of people sufffering on this board as well as hppdonline. Theyll tell you, enjoying vs is very much the anomaly. Just want to make people aware of the risks and maybe they will be able to tell when they need a break for a bit.
 
So maybe the lesson that everyone is learning here is that basically, nothing in this life is safe, whether it be drugs, a job, driving, flying, skiing, diving, fishing, eating peanuts, etc...

On a long enough time line the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

I believe that people live their lives in a constant cost-benefit analysis.

Choosing to drink alcohol may prove to have dangerous repercussions, but the value of alcohol as a social lubricant, and as a relaxing benzo outweigh the risks that people know about it.
So instead of drinking everyday, they choose to only drink occasionally, which provides them with the benefits of alcohol use, and very little of the repercussions of abuse.

A person who drives a car makes a cost benefit analysis every time they sit behind the wheel. They very well know that the second they drive out onto the main road, that their risk of death increases 10 fold. But the benefit of being able to drive somewhere rather than walk or ride a bike outweighs the risk of driving. So instead, they choose to take safe precautions while driving, so they can maximize the benefit, and minimize the risk.

Same thing with MDMA. No, i never once denied the fact that MDMA can and will cause problems if used regularly, but i believe that when people know of these risks, do a cost benefit analysis, and then compensate accordingly, i think people can find a happy medium with the drug where they get maximum benefit with minimum damage.

And rolling, im very interested in your condition. Is this visual snow so disruptive that it can interfere with daily activities? Or is it more of an annoying background noise that you have to just get used to?
My dad was in the army, and a gun was shot close to his ear. He now has to deal with a faint annoying ringing the rest of his life, but it in no way prevents him from doing things. Does this HPPD affect you in such a way?
Is it seriously debilitating like a disease, or just more of a bastard annoyance like the ear ringing?
 
xthunderbirdscx said:
And rolling, im very interested in your condition. Is this visual snow so disruptive that it can interfere with daily activities? Or is it more of an annoying background noise that you have to just get used to?
My dad was in the army, and a gun was shot close to his ear. He now has to deal with a faint annoying ringing the rest of his life, but it in no way prevents him from doing things. Does this HPPD affect you in such a way?
Is it seriously debilitating like a disease, or just more of a bastard annoyance like the ear ringing?
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thunderbird's assesment was very astute. I also agree that it's a cost-benefit analysis, and until now i made the choice that mdma was worth all the possible risk when used properly. I still think people should drop. Im all for it, it's been the best thing for a long time with no repercussions. HPPD has come out of nowhere. No one else i know has heard of it, so statistics are in the favour of not getting it. Puzzles me still how i got it. Maybe puzzles isnt the right word, frustrates me and makes me a little bitter, naturally. I think the only thing that's changed for me is what i now understand as the risk. Previously i used to shrug it off thinking, oh if i get a little depression, i'll get through it, i'll know its just the X. I never fathomed being in a trip 24/7. That is NOT one of the risks that people are presented with for MDMA use. It's usually depression, lack of concentration, memory. All things which we think we can get away with, and im sure we can. Now, i have a newfound respect for drug induced depression (i dont have it, but i can see how it can be a force out of one's control) and oh MAN...the risk which i have fallen prey to, at least right now, there is NO getting around it. Ive never had a bad trip in my life. And now, its 24/7. Imagine that...alllll the time.

In terms of it being debilitating, i know that it isnt for many people, but vs can take on different forms. Mine is combined with a feeling of tripping all the time. For example if you look at books on the shelf, and they are flickering, it causes an actual discomfort. Not just from seeing it, but a certain dizzyness. Like watching a flickering TV set, it makes you nauseous after awhile.So seeing life through this flicking panorama is disturbing physically, not just mentally. I think the way to sum it up is that i want to "come down". It's that hyperstimulation of mind and body that is debilitating.
 
thunderbird, I agree entirely with your last post. It is a risk analysis, and that was the point I was trying to make, there are risks but if you feel its worth it then by all means drop pills. I just think its important to make people aware of all possible risks, and downplaying them is the exact opposite of what harm reduction aims for. Glad we can all come to at least some agreement and conclusion.
 
For anyone new to the idea of hppd for gods sake don't read a few threads on it and then convince yourself you have it. You could describe the symptoms of any number of diseases to people and convince a large percentage that they have it. Especially when the symptoms are as vague as hppd.
 
rollingregret said:
As for whether this was due to E, it was. It started right after that time in Oct and got a lot worse after new years. Ive tried to deny that its due to that, but the evidence is overwhelming. Its long been debated that there are residual visual after effects induced by E which is NOT hppd. Therefore, after taking a break, they will subside and you can resume popping. I would love to hear more evidence of this, but i dont seem to find enough examples of this or to discredit the validity of my hppd. Hard to handle. Almost like your hero, turning around and stabbing you in the back and then everyone slandering him and you eventually realising he isnt as great as you thought he was. Again, want to be proven wrong.
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The trouble is out of all the millions upon millions of people who take E how many people get hppd from it? One in every 10 million? One in every 100 million? All drugs have some level of risk - people drop dead from taking paracetomol all the time. But the fact remains that for the vast bulk of humanity paracetomol is safe. - or as safe as anything can be in life.
 
Ismene said:
For anyone new to the idea of hppd for gods sake don't read a few threads on it and then convince yourself you have it. You could describe the symptoms of any number of diseases to people and convince a large percentage that they have it. Especially when the symptoms are as vague as hppd.
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I didnt just come up with this idea all of a sudden. It seems you havnt read my posts carefully. I had been dealing with the symptoms HARD for very long before i found out about it. I did MRIs, CTs, blootest, eye exams, etc. No doctor could figure it out. Once i found out about hppd, UNFORTUNATELY (I tried to deny it) all the symptoms i had were perfectly congruent with HPPD. I dont have full-blown HPPD, just visual snow and floaters + imbalance feeling (which may or may not be part of hppd). These symptoms are not vague. They have ruined every single day of my life since i got them.

Ismene said:
The trouble is out of all the millions upon millions of people who take E how many people get hppd from it? One in every 10 million? One in every 100 million? All drugs have some level of risk - people drop dead from taking paracetomol all the time. But the fact remains that for the vast bulk of humanity paracetomol is safe. - or as safe as anything can be in life.
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Once again, if you had read my posts, what i was saying was that , YES, my condition seems to be VERY VERY rare. You views on drug risk mirror mine. I have said the same things to people abotu OTC drugs being jsut as unsafe sometimes. And i still stand by that. All i am saying is that i was exactly like you, thinking that i wouldnt have any negative repercussion because i was a responsible user. I didnt know anything about HPPD, or persistent visuals from MDMA. You at least do know about the risk now. And from my perspective, all that 1 in a million stuff doesnt matter, obviously. It might not be 1 in a million. You accept this fact because you or nobody you know has contracted it. A lot of people have exprienced vs after drugs inlcuding x, just not to the level where it becomes debilitating. It's not THAT farfetched. Maybe for mild vs, it's 1 in 100. And then still, i think even I would take the chance (unless of course i had experienced what having this is like...trust me...its NOT).


Anyway, i hope i have not sidetracked this thread to badly with my story and points. Bottom line is, I got HPPD from X. This is as much a fact to me as drinking alocohol gets me drunk. This is not based on assumptions. I am not HAPPY that X has been the cause. Im not trying to slander it as a horrible drug. I still think it's great, i just cant do it anymore. Its a double whammy I hope nobody else has to go through. I think we try as a community to base our decisions on a thin veil of research and the lack of evidence showing outright negative effects of X. We stand behind the whole moderation thing, the botched Ricaurte studies, the safeguard that we are not etards, just responsible users. This has been MY way of thinking. At the end of the day though, i got screwed over and this could happen to any one of you. It most likely will not, but im just saying, this IS a risk which one should seriously seriously consider (even if you are a moderate user).
 
Well yeah, that's all true. But I suppose you have to reach a level of risk that's acceptable to you. A vanishingly small percentage of people have dropped stone dead after taking E just the once so everyone should be aware this could happen. Just like any one of us could choke to death on our next bite of food.
 
99.9 % chance means it still can happen!

My wife got pregnant while on birth control TWICE (the shot and patch)
And i thought "no way shes gettin pregnant" obviously my guys where determined!

Just sayin regardless of how small a percentage it is u still have to take it into consideration.......
 
i agree with pullstring (makes me paranoid about sex with my girlfriend now 8( )

But, with regards to harm reduction, take it slow. Do what Alexander Shulgin did and work up on doses to make sure you wont have a bad reaction. If youve never done e before and youre unsure if youre sensitive, take a quarter of a pill first, and work up from there.

At least thats my theory...anyone else agree?
 
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pullstring said:
99.9 % chance means it still can happen!

My wife got pregnant while on birth control TWICE (the shot and patch)
And i thought "no way shes gettin pregnant" obviously my guys where determined!

Just sayin regardless of how small a percentage it is u still have to take it into consideration.......
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I'm not sure that follows. It's like some people having a body that reacts badly when they eat nuts - I suppose they could claim "Nuts are dangerous". But I could eat nuts till they come out of my ears every day and feel fine.

Perhaps the more logical approach is "If you have the kind of physical makeup that makes you vulnerable to extremely rare effects from E then for you E is dangerous. For everyone else E isn't dangerous"
 
thats what i was gettin at!

for the vass majority its not dangerous! but u could be mister .01% that dies or gets your vision screwed
 
True but so what? A meteorite might hit you on the head the next time you set foot outside. Are we all going to stay in the house for the rest of our lives? :)

At some point a risk becomes so slight that it's meaningless.
 
Ismene said:
Perhaps the more logical approach is "If you have the kind of physical makeup that makes you vulnerable to extremely rare effects from E then for you E is dangerous. For everyone else E isn't dangerous"
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Unless there are people out there who are immune to hyperthermia, hyponatremia and dehydration, then MDMA is potentially dangerous to anyone.
 
Ismene said:
True but so what? A meteorite might hit you on the head the next time you set foot outside. Are we all going to stay in the house for the rest of our lives? :)

At some point a risk becomes so slight that it's meaningless.
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yes but Mr Meteorhead is why its 99.9% safe is all

and do u chalk extasy as cause of death when its REALLY dehydration or those other immunities?!
 
Additional negative impact?

Just as a minor sidebar,

My condition has been getting a little worse and this is proportional to a musculoskeletal problem that seems also to be in a state of flux. My collarbone is tilted such that my left collarbone is slanted up and my right, down. My left shoulder is rotated forward and my left trapezius is super contracted (looks like im a body builder when im far from it) and the right is normal. It's extremely obvious and is causing a muscular tension that radiates through my cervical region. There is a chance that it is impinging the nerves and vessels, possibly the optic ones too.

Anyway, my question is, have any of you developped a muscular imbalance/misalignment due to ecstasy use. Since the muscle tone system does depend on serotonin (migraines are thoguht to be linked to a malfunction of the serotonin system), is it possible that it's the effect of the X/contiguous with the hppd causing the imbalance or is it the imbalance (due to a structural flaw) causing the visual and mind alterations?

Im still trying to search for answers so i cant say for sure that the E has caused this muscle thing, so im not trying to accuse x of another disability, but wondering if anyone has had the same experiences...
 
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