Would you consider dissociatives to be 'hard drugs'?

[lolusername]

Would you guys consider dissociative drugs to be "hard"? I realize they can be quite addicting but it seems that moderate use of them isn't too bad. I kind of see them as a borderline case.

 

[psychomimetic]

I would say that the hard/soft drug distinction is mostly meaningless. Ketamine, for instance, is bad for you if you do it every day, but I don't think it's too bad if done occasionally. The same can be said for most any drug. Most drugs aren't very bad for you if done in moderation. For me personally, my use of LSD and mushrooms harmed me more than my use of heroin or adderall. Because I used the first two much more often. So which of them is the hard drug?

You can abuse drugs or you can use them responsibly. With some drugs that's harder to do, I cannot use meth responsibly for instance, and I've known people who compulsively binge on ketamine if they have it. But it all comes down to the user more than the drug.

 

[wobbleminge]

I have the same kind of thought on this - where exactly is the borderline between what's hard and soft and what exactly does "hard" mean? To all intents and purposes, I'd usually refer to hard drugs as those with a high potential for addiction, or prepared in a way that increases harm; so far example, I wouldn't say amphetamine was a hard drug if taken orally, but if injected, I probably would.

Even the penalties attached to posession and sale of drugs doesnt seem to reflect this: ecstasy has a mild to low potential for addiction and harm and yet in the uk is a class A drug, whereas ketamine has a higher potential, higher risk of causing harm and higher risk of permanent damage to your brain, yet it is a class C

 

[Albion]

Dissociative addiction/dependence is one of the grimmest addictions going. They're lovely drugs, but so intense, and so powerful. They aren't hard in that you can overdose and die just like that, but they're hard in just about every other sense of the word. You only have to look at the amount of people swept up in methoxetamine habits (myself included) to see just how 'hard' they can be.

 

[wobbleminge]

JSPete - lol, I have a friend who's really into mephedrone, and he told me once that he uses methoxetamine to "help him sleep".....i still don't get it lol

 

[Albion]

JSPete - lol, I have a friend who's really into mephedrone, and he told me once that he uses methoxetamine to "help him sleep".....i still don't get it lol

MXE's one of those habits you have to make excuses for, because it's so fucking impossible to justify taking it so often in the first place.

MXE does not help with sleep. See what I mean?

 

[jazz hands]

I'd definitely consider them to be among the more serious class of drugs. Look what happens to PCP when the wrong people get a hold of it.

 

[lolusername]

Side question: Can dissociative use cause permanent cognitive damage?
Also in general how often can dissociatives can be used consequence free?

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

i look at the more specific yin and yang of drugs is....'experiential drugs' and 'effect drugs'.
psychedelics being drugs which induce an 'experience', being unpredictable as to the specifics of effect as well as the amount of comfort and/or contentment which will come about through their use.

whereas 'effect' drugs imo, are drugs taken because of a desirable sensation which occurs from the intake of that drug. these drugs, you can tell 'whats gonna happen' from doing them, i class alcohol and pills as being the primary examples.

in this spectrum mdma and disassociatives are somewhere in the middle, depending on the use and function each individual is providing. weed too, i feel is somewhere in the middle, often taken as a 'typical stone' to many and disregarded in terms of experiential variation. but for myself, and many others i know, weeds can be unpredictable and provide trance experiences not unlike the traditional psychedelics.

i lost interest in 'effect drugs' ever since i experienced a couple psychedelic breakthroughs. and i do consider these effect drugs 'hard' drugs generally speaking.

but the other distinction i draw, and i'm a unique case, as i'm a tripper but i am also a raw-food vegan and very specific about what i allow in my body. this being said, the other yin and yang distinction between substances is toxic vs nontoxic. and i choose to abstain completely from alcohol because i don't like 'even a little' bit of neutoxicity, hippocampus degeneration, dendrite problems (whatever crazy shit it does up there). i also abstain from mdma and all pharmaceuticals and Also the disassociatives. i may be wrong, its been a bit since i've read about the physical effects of disassociatives, but i remember them being hard on the liver...not to the extent of liver failure from a few experiences, but things which have a 'heavy' 'low dose of something toxic' effect on the body are things which i choose to not do.

i meditate daily, and can feel the difference between a body at 100% and a body at 99%, and seeing as though i have infinite fun with the substances which i allow into my body, and definitely don't feel like i'm 'missing out' by not doing these others, i personally...choose 100% :D however, most people, who don't meditate daily and are not actively working to detoxify their bodies and refine their diets, may not care about the difference or be near any conscious awareness of these 'subtle differences'.

anyways, i lost intererest in 'effect drugs', and then have slowly added things to the list which 'are heavy in the body' or 'hard to process' which are to be avoided for myself as well. i have a very 'extreme' view on what i personally allow 'clean enough' to enter my body in both diet and drug use. but for me, 'hard' is anything which is used for personal bliss, or something which I KNOW is not good for my body.

i valued my dxm experiences quite a bit, and i grew mentally and spiritually through them. but, i don't want to tax my liver from its consumption. and honestly i don't know if i'd do it again anyways even if it was pure, i don't really ressonate with it anymore, but thats besides the point. also the whole 'olneys lesions' thing seemed kinda freaky. i know its disputed on this site, and i'm not saying that it does happen, but that is a 'potential' physically toxic side effect of disassociatives which would definitely land them on my 'hard' list if proven.

sorry to ramble, but yeah, i think its up to your own distinction...kind of a gray area. if i was gonna do something that i consider a 'hard drug' i would go for a disassociative over mdma or over pharms or alcohol for damn sure, but thats just me.

 

[Scunch]

dissociatives have little effect on the liver. They can have severe effects on the bladder and kidneys, especially ketamine. DXM is without a doubt harder than ketamine and methoxetamine in terms of brain impairment and stress to the body, although ketamine probably does more to the kidney and urinary tract.

 

[LSDreamer13]

A drug is a drug. There is no "hard" or "soft" drug. Just what people have made up in general about these different substances...

Like someone above said, it depends on the user. I can take acid, shrooms, and smoke pot occasionally. I CANNOT take any heroin/opiates or coke/crack occasionally. I am a slave/addict to those drugs.

 

[Br1tannia]

I've got myself a methoxetamine habit now, it's only going to get worse over christmas break, dissociatives are definatley hard drugs, they fuck you up in the head big time

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

addiction potential definitely adds something to the hard vs nonhard line drawing efforts...
i'm a caffeine addict though, and although its not the healthiest habit...actually its my least healthy habit, but it doesn't make me a 'hard-drugee' lol..but then in a less psychoactively-biased world maybe i should be considered such lol damn social norms, the babylonian river of folgers cursed me with its requirment!!

 

[boonesbane]

I consider anything other than cannabis to be a hard drug. I used to not include alcohol in this but it's harmed me so much more than supposedly hard drugs like cocaine or mdma.

 

[LSDreamer13]

I consider anything other than cannabis to be a hard drug. I used to not include alcohol in this but it's harmed me so much more than supposedly hard drugs like cocaine or mdma.

That's because alcohol is the worse drug you can take. IMO. And if you look at the facts, basically a fact.

 

[LogicSoDeveloped]

I told myself I wouldn't let myself slip into an MXE habit but this last week I've done it every other day and I woke up this morning with a little bit so I'm thinking I might give my friend my stash to hold for a week or so. I haven't really fallen into addiction but I'd rather not get to that point and just have a break where I won't try to justify myself into using more.

I just don't want to get into the same trouble that it seems like many other users have been having.

Does anyone have any sort of definitive answer as far as MXE toxicity goes? I know its an RC but I wondered if it would just be similar to K as far as harm potential goes...

 

[Jesusgreen]

^ I'd imagine something similar to K in terms of damage to the bladder and kidneys, so long term use could be pretty bad, I think breaks are important, as is keeping your doses low and avoiding dosing too many times in a day.

 

[Albion]

^ I'd imagine something similar to K in terms of damage to the bladder and kidneys, so long term use could be pretty bad, I think breaks are important, as is keeping your doses low and avoiding dosing too many times in a day.

I think MXE is predicted to be not as bad on the bladder and kidneys as ketamine, due to the fact that you need much less of it. I think that may have even been a deliberate design choice on the part of the 'inventor'.

 

[Jesusgreen]

^ Yes, that's correct. What I meant though, is that similar amounts are likely to be similarly damaging, so if someone is using large doses it'll likely be no safer than Ketamine. The trick is keeping doses small.

Due to MXE's longer duration it has the added advantage of not only needing less to begin with but in most cases needing fewer (or no) redoses, so with proper use it shouldn't be an issue for quite a long time, but if you're abusing it like a lot of people are here, I'd expect similar problems to daily Ketamine use.

 

[B9]

A hard drug would be classified as one which causes the user to repeatedly administer in spite of any negative side effects.
That would mean it's the user who defines the hardness of a drug.
That said some drugs seem more likely to lead more people into a cycle of abuse, dissociatives fall into that category for some people.
I'd say they're a hard drug but perhaps not as hard as some.