Misc Would you be able to 'feel' liver toxicity coming on or once you did its too late?

[Berdo tm1]

I have been wanting to try kava kava again but this fucking liver toxiticity thing is plaguing my mind. yes yes i know it was from a bad batch using non roots whatever, but another study in the megathread said:

new research shows that moulds such as alfatoxin forming during improper drying of the roots may be responsible for liver damage: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3269575/

I have read reports about liver problems (like ones on the kratom threads) and it seems alarming how quick they reach a point of no return. Like a cpl of doses and next thing they know they need a transplant and/or die.

So my quesiton is would you know something didn't 'feel right' with your liver before things became irreparably damaged, provided you knew what to look for and were aware of the possibility of such issues going in? So like you could constantly be monitoring and pull the rip chord at the first sign of upset before causing permanent and irreversible damage?

It feels like any option in life you are constantly dicing with death and its only a matter of time before you catch a bullet.

 

[tunesey]

I like a drink and the doctor told me the first viable signs of liver damage is a yellowing of the eyes under your bottom eyelid. Hope that helps. P.S I am constantly checking mine in the mirror. Also I was told that the liver does not have many pain receptors so you wont feel much if any pain if it is fucking up

 

[Mycophile]

I have been wanting to try kava kava again but this fucking liver toxiticity thing is plaguing my mind. yes yes i know it was from a bad batch using non roots whatever, but another study in the megathread said:



I have read reports about liver problems (like ones on the kratom threads) and it seems alarming how quick they reach a point of no return. Like a cpl of doses and next thing they know they need a transplant and/or die.

So my quesiton is would you know something didn't 'feel right' with your liver before things became irreparably damaged, provided you knew what to look for and were aware of the possibility of such issues going in? So like you could constantly be monitoring and pull the rip chord at the first sign of upset before causing permanent and irreversible damage?

It feels like any option in life you are constantly dicing with death and its only a matter of time before you catch a bullet.

I don't know much, but in asking moderators in this site already about this kind of thing I can say that MOST LIKELY (you'd have to ask the mods yourself, and they are probably close to experts) you would DEFINITELY know if you'd done permanent liver damage.

I think that HAS to be complete bullshit that you just do a couple extra doses of something and get permanent liver damage.

First of all, actual liver failure or anything close to it would be EXTREMELY EXTREMELY painful.

You would know, you'd be in complete agony.

Now, you can also very slowly do damage to your liver over a lifetime and that's a different story, but I'd think that even then that once you got to the point of permanent damage you'd be experiencing some serious pain.

I really think you are worrying for no reason.

Most studies I have read (admittedly, only a few) have stated that it is probably other parts of the Kava plant other than the root that cause liver damage so if you make sure you buy the root only you will probably only be stressing your liver a little, my guess would be not more than heavy drinking does.

I think you should ask for more educated opinions than mine, but the idea that you'd go from nothing one second to needing a liver transplant the next is probably totally wrong.

I understand and sympathize with those who have anxiety, but if you are this concerned then you probably shouldn't be using any drugs that you don't absolutely need to.

That way you won't worry about it.

 

[Mycophile]

I like a drink and the doctor told me the first viable signs of liver damage is a yellowing of the eyes under your bottom eyelid. Hope that helps. P.S I am constantly checking mine in the mirror. Also I was told that the liver does not have many pain receptors so you wont feel much if any pain if it is fucking up

I don't know if there's any truth to that on a small level...but multiple mods and a doctor have already told me that if you are getting liver failure or have done EXTREME damage to your liver you are going to be in complete and utter agony.

I'm sure if you do it slowly over a lifetime it might not be so sudden, but the idea that you could be going through liver failure and not be in pain is 100% false...and even be as unknowledgable about this stuff as I am I still feel 100% confident that I am correct about that.

 

[abracadabra girl]

Get regular blood tests which will detect liver problems before you have any symptoms at all.

 

[The Doc.]

I usually checked my eyes every morning for signs of jaundice to see if the percs have fucked my liver up again. I did this after I ended up in the hospital from acetaminophen poisoning at age 18 from all the percocets, vicodan, and T3s I was taking daily. It didn't give me much warning when I went in to the hospital I just had this bad pain in my side started to feel like shit then started puking blood and passed out.
But I think when checking your eyes once they are yellow or your gums are yellow then your livers already on its way to failing completely.
The best way is doing liver function tests on occasion to see how its doing that way gives you the most time cause most of the time you don't know till its too late. Alcoholics may find when their liver has been damaged a lot that they get drunk really quick or from just 2 beers because their liver isn't processing the booze anymore due to the damage caused by excessive drinking.

I had an alcoholic friend like this who had to drink shitloads of beer to get drunk and all of a sudden he would drink 2 and have his shirt off out of control drunk. Pretty soon after he didn't stop pounding back boxes of cooking wine 24/7 he had yellowish eyes and his liver failed permanently.
Poor guy it happens so often but when you live on the streets its not like your gonna be sober it's tough living that's for sure.

To the person who said its not painful HA! That's a good one it hurts like fucking hell

 

[Lechium]

I am on medication called imuran thats horrible on the liver . I also take kratom daily (lately), drink kava tea almost every night (although lately I jusy been drinkin the yogi brand from a local store not the legit root powder i have (too lazy to prep) so its not as strong), and I drink alcohol. I get liver tests doen frequently and test always come back good. Even when I had a dull ache where my liver is (which is pretty normal for me these days) ive finally put that down to being my colon that's hurtin from crohns disease (the reason im on imuran)

anyway I dont think u have anything to worry about. Jaundice is the first sign of liver failure as been mentioned. Jaundice is yellowing of the white part of the eyes as well as other areas or your skin. At that point ur liver or kidneys need help but they can recover in a few weeks tho it may require a hospital stay and dialysis depending on extend of damage...of course it could be too excessive and ur fucked needing a transplant so just keep an eye on how u look...especially keep an eye on ur eyes

 

[love.peace.war]

I like a drink and the doctor told me the first viable signs of liver damage is a yellowing of the eyes under your bottom eyelid. Hope that helps. P.S I am constantly checking mine in the mirror. Also I was told that the liver does not have many pain receptors so you wont feel much if any pain if it is fucking up

Not sure I really agree with this. I've been in liver failure and can tell you that while I did not feel much pain coming from that area in specific, I was in a terrible condition and definitely felt very sick. I had jaundice, vertigo and vomiting.

OP, you definitely know when you are in liver failure. The best way I can describe it is that you feel very unwell/sick. Like extremely sick. I went right to the ER because I had a huge inclination that I was very ill when I could not even hold down a glass of water without throwing up. I had yellow streaking below my pupils on the whites of my eyes.

 

[EP158207]

Also I was told that the liver does not have many pain receptors so you wont feel much if any pain if it is fucking up

This is true, so far as the liver itself wont hurt, and also the liver is such a remarkable organ that up to 90% of it needs to have failed in order for you to see a difference in the body's functioning. Therefore, when you finally get to the point that the liver is failing, you wont have a painful liver, but you were feel very, very unwell, and you will throw up bile, possibly blood, wont be able to keep any food or water down etc. So you will be in pain, but all over and not localised to the liver.

 

[love.peace.war]

This is true, so far as the liver itself wont hurt, and also the liver is such a remarkable organ that up to 90% of it needs to have failed in order for you to see a difference in the body's functioning. Therefore, when you finally get to the point that the liver is failing, you wont have a painful liver, but you were feel very, very unwell, and you will throw up bile, possibly blood, wont be able to keep any food or water down etc. So you will be in pain, but all over and not localised to the liver.

THIS! I was throwing up bile and not even able to keep a glass of water down. In liver failure you feel extremely sick.

 

[tunesey]

Thank you EP158207 my doctor told me that you dont have many pain receptors in your liver the posts above have made out that I am some sort of bullshit artist. I only posted what I was told by a professional (my doctor) maybe he was trying to get me to cut down on the booze

 

[Movemauser]

The liver goes years handling whatever you throw at it then suddenly it just says 'no'. That's what several docs have said to me over many years. Once it says no, you know about it.