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Workshop Thread #3 - "The Idiot Savant" by ForEverAfter

ForEverAfter

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"The Idiot Savant"

All comments welcome. I have thick skin. You will not offend me. Negative comments are more helpful than positive ones. Compliments inflate my ego. Criticisms assist the drafting process. I didn't have as much time as I would have liked to work on this, due to hardware issues. It's not meant to be offensive. The subject matter is potentially delicate. So I apologize in advance if it rubs anyone the wrong way.

NOTE: I don't want line edits or spelling/grammar comments. It's a really rough draft, and it's about half the length it should be. I wrote it when I was really high. Upon re-reading it, I noticed a whole bunch of things that I need to fix in terms of line-to-line shit. Like the name "Tom" appears a ridiculous number of times... What I'd like in terms of feedback is really general comments.

Does it work structurally/ conceptually?

Is there too much back story at the beginning?

Is the end (from the doctor's appointment, onward) too abrupt?

Thanks,
-4EA
 
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the rebecca scene is the best. gets into the weird. a mom hiring a hooker for a her retarded son to build his confidence. i think--99% sure--because you gave it the perfect level of subtlety. i like her a lot more than tom. she's your unconventionally beautiful female character. necessary. not that you need anymore of her.

it's also the best part of the story because it is a scene with dialogue and all, not summary. which you have a lot of. your first page doesn't have a word of dialogue. no good.

other bomb parts of the story... "and other less reputable magazines"--perfectly slipped in. "Tom played dumb"--got a smile outta me. and dakota's absurd question. also very funny. i would stretch that out. maybe even make it a conversation.

is the end too abrupt? yup. and the "special" reprise edges on cutesy. if that's the way you are gonna go, darker humor.

the story catches attention right away. great concept. but i would push for more glimpses and less summary. you need and have both, just not in the right ratio.

and "the girls, God knows where she found them all." na. another opportunity for some entertaining dialogue.
 
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okay, finally finished it - shouldn't have taken me this long for such a relatively short story.
i think the overall concept works, and i like the way you played around with the concept of normality. and the line: "scanning the restaurant for another - less retarded - bachelor" made me laugh way more than it should have. it's pretty well executed and the arch works.
on a really not very relevant note, is 'a' down the correct, i.e. politically correct, terminology? i don't know shit about the subject, nor do i really care what is politically correct, but it somehow didn't sound right to me. again, not really a criticism, just something that felt sort of wrong on a purely instinctual level.
 
Is there too much back story at the beginning?

A tad, yes. But nothing too bad. I would like to see more of a physical description of him -- a before and after. Of course, we all know what Downies look like in general but it still helps. I'd like to see a bit more of a relationship between Tom and his mother, explore their dynamic perhaps through dialogue. I can see what you're trying to do with this ending and it's a good idea, the ol 'beauty is skin' deep thing, but it can be expanded to hit the point harder. IMO, the idea that he suddenly found out he didn't have Down Syndrome in his late teens/early twenties doesn't seem plausible. I'm not medically trained, so perhaps it's not impossible. If you flesh it out a bit, it would help with the transitions between scenes, like the one where he shows up at the doctor's office. Finally, no mention of a dad?

I hope the next story breaks this autobiographical chain.
 
I'm printing it out and reading it now 16 hour fucking work day. I've got plenty of king-hell crank and will write it out analog before I return to edit this with my thoughts, opinions, feelings, etc. ad infinitum. I've not read any comments on it yet.

Thou
 
Look forward to reading your feedback, Thou.

Thanks for the responses, so far. I have a very strong idea of how I'm going to progress with this story. I'd like to redraft it and submit the new version for a workshop later on. I highly recommend this to other contributors, also. Max said he was keen on doing a second round. It's interesting, and encouraging, to see how other people's work progresses and the impact that your comments have made. I've taken pretty much all opinions on board and I've been restructuring the story in my head.

When I write something, a lot of the time, suspect what is wrong with my story - and I just need to hear people confirm it. Usually I rely on a majority opinion. With our workshops, so far, I disagree with practically none of the feedback, which is rare . I've done a lot of workshops. Typically there is someone who doesn't "get it", at all, who I decide early on to ignore. So far, you're all on the ball, not just with this piece but with all three so far. The quality of the feedback is really top notch.

Hydro, I'm glad you picked up on some of the subtler aspects of the story.

xxxyyy, I have heard variations of "Down" used in the disabled world. Including parents of kids with Down Syndrome, using the term "downs kids" to refer to other affected children. However, I intentionally created the contrasting terms "Downs" and "Norms" in an attempt to make it a little edgy. I want it to make you feel uncomfortable. I used slang like this much more in the original version, before my hard drive exploded.

Max, it's not supposed to be plausible that somebody would "find out" they didn't have Down Syndrome later in life. It's supposed to be absurd. I was attempting to build a story around a scenario that cannot exist. Miscounting chromosomes is clearly ridiculous. But, maybe that's not enough. Perhaps I need to clarify the tone/absurdity of the piece. I will take this into account during my re-write. I'm curious, what did other people think about this? I'd prefer to keep the absurd aspect of the story subtle. Like mild magic realism or something.

I hope the next story breaks this autobiographical chain.

Screw you, granny fucker!

:)
 
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Finished this last night but didn't want to wake up my mother as the computer is in her room until mine is fixed.

Wrote it down analog so now I'm copying from my abhorred handwriting. The elegant keys have spoiled me it seems.


"The Idiot Savant." Reviewed line by line 7/20. Will review again after several other reads without stopping to jot down first impressions. I like this method personally and we'll see if it flies.


Paragraph 1; Line 1:

Strong, intriguing/enticing start. I detect a subtle bit of foreshadowing leading to me to think this to be a promising read. Good hook and sound and fairly likely that the reader won't resist at least 2 more paragraphs, depending on how they materialize. Setting is revealed in few, but concise words, which I like. Punchy, descriptive, to the point short sentences alternating in a catchy pattern. Prose is good so far but a touch familiar, not a bad thing mind you (imo).

Paragraph 1; the rest:

Denotes location nice and subtle. Tells a good deal about what appears at this point to be the protagonist and focal point, our underdog. Again, the shortage of the paragraph and how much information it conveys is great, especially considering the amount of the populous at present who share the attention span of a dead car battery.

Paragraph 2:

Discord introduced early on. Denotes a horrific dilemma the youth is trapped inside on account of his physical abnormalities and their effects on his social life, or lack thereof which he seems to prefer. I'm an introvert myself and hate when people expect me to talk about something mindless or be around people I don't quite care for. Big audience here, and you may have won them over in quite a short span of time.

The description of his disability and the paradox of having a "brilliant retard" are quite to my liking, and talk of his physicality gives us a bit more information about not only our protagonist, but the whole story in motion. Last sentence characterizing a group of people w/ slang is a device I often employ myself (IE: the "Downs"), its good style. Keeps the reader from getting hung up on unrecognizable and unnecessarily long titles like "Down Syndrome Citizens," or something similar. William Burroughs used to sometimes use acronyms sardonically, ("Operation WOG, Wrath, of, God.) Enough about that old dope fiend though ;)

I find myself with the desire to keep reading as it's progressing quite steadily and smoothly, based on these first two chapters alone. I'm not trying to be complimentary here, this is a readers honest opinion. As I've stated, I've not critiqued much literature and am new to writing fiction all together. I'm looking for faults though believe you me, you'll know them when I find them. Another plus to the last block of screed is how little is said, but how much is revealed as is probable, leading us to become ensared into the question all authors crave of their readers, "What happens next?!"

Paragraph 3; Sentence 1:

I enjoyed how Heidi is ripped out of the closet here, as it were, and how she exemplifies all that is essentially wrong with the typical modern shallow selfish woman (or man, doesn't matter); one who believes "all children are special," but more importantly; "...but MINE is WAY MORE SPECIAL THAN YOURS." This line of selfish reasoning is dangerous and its why kids like me grow up all fucked up. I'll quote the late G. Carlin "Every child is clearly not special."

I see this shit on a daily basis (I'm in America, btw) and it shows her character riddled with a kind of empty, superficial quality to your readers. I think this paragraph should have used a bit more though. You've already enticed me into reading this far, a slight expansion her would have been delightful, albeit not entirely necessary. Maybe an account of the two discussing the ridicule, some examples of said ridicule etc. Still dig, and I'm sure this will come to fruition eventually as you're usage of the paragraph is consistent and anything more might have made it less fluid. We'll see.

Still dig so far. "My son, the retarded Da Vinci." Fucking excellent. Sardonic and reveals character is so few words. I like that style. I'm personally a bit more long-winded, run on sentences and whatnot, but there's more than one way to skin a cat, and I'm being both objective and subjective here, so it's a bit weird I'll admit. Not only is it great [the quote] in revealing character and subtle future plot hints, but the sardonic nature of such a statement made by such a woman shows a great bit of truth about the shallow, ego-dominated nature of Western Culture and those who stand by it. (I consider AUS Westernized.)

Paragraph 4:

Ah, I see what you did there. Had a feeling the relationship of mother & son would be expounded upon, I was prematurely impatient. The short and revealing paragraph styles works strong in your favor, and in ours as readers.

Paragraph 5:

Ah, now the reader finally gets to know the boy. A common theme in his predicament but a profound one which I happen to share. I'm an introvert and love being left alone, though not invisible. The exaggeration implies a misery that at this point could know no bounds. I did want to left the fuck alone in grade/high school, and still do to this day. People just can't mind their own business. I'd imagine you'd touch a large demographic with this character trait and sentiment tied intrinsically to the plot.

I already feel compassion for the child. It's certainly important to empathize a bit with your protagonist in some if not all pieces of literature. You've achieved this within four concise paragraphs for me. I'm trying to find fault still but I'm being fairly subjective with this one concept here, as it hits close to home.

I dig the pace of the story so far, advancing this quickly tells me something grandiose will bring the tale to an eventual end.

Also, I dig anyone who publically criticizes and exposes the horrible "indoctrination centers" or "public schools" as their referred to and how they tend more often than not to do little good in the education department, and in my case, ruined a perfectly good childhood where I could have learned everything on my own (which I ended up doing anyway, just developed an anxiety disorder due their graduation rhetoric and totalitarian approach to learning).

Paragraph 7:

I already disdain this boys delusional mother, moreso than earlier. I knew it would come to this based on earlier readings, but now we're expanding into higher frontiers of loathing, offering a) a great villian ("nobody does more harm than people who feel bad about doing it, or in this case, are oblivious") and antagonist.

I like the balance between the two opposing forces. Let me ask you, is this woman really this dumb and oblivious? Or is she calculating and just plain rotten sadist? My guess is the former and if that's the case I have nothing to offer in the way of negative criticism.

Paragraph 8:

Moving along nicely we now have a concrete and more or less fully formed (in the readers mind) antagonist, and being family at that! Control freaks make excellent characters in my opinion, especially the bad guys. Definitely rooting for Tom with each passing sentence, you've applied an emotional attachment between me and your main character. Good show!

I'd like to hear more about what the condition does to his physical appearance, his motor skills, his vocabulary, etc. I've a feeling this will come soon. One incongruousness part I noted personally was that the title gave me the impression he was autistic. I just now realized it was downs we were speaking of, even though it's been mentioned several times and I've even commented on it. I guess the title can be important, I always assumed it was irrelevant.

Paragraph 11:

Interesting here these dates he's set up on sound far inferior in intellect to his, ironically enough. Shallow, limited in intelligent decisiveness, vacuous behavior...


To be continued have to run out for a short bit.

Thou.
 
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Writing the medical "mistake" differently seems crucial. Because, I love that it happened--it's the whole beauty of the story--but the absurdity of it needs to be played up somehow. Right now, it is a bit abrupt. What about more description of the older doctor so that he becomes a character that we could believe would jump to such a conclusion without any backup.

Was Rebecca a prostitute? Didn't get that. Were we supposed to infer that from her appearance or the fact that she was practiced in making a man feel better about himself and therefore at ease through the use of false compliments?
 
I agree. I LOVE the absurd.

Will finish my review shortly, had to run some errands but I'm full of crank and bob dylan records so it's fast forthcoming.
 
I had in my mind when writing it that Rebecca was a prostitute but I didn't get it down on the page enough for it to be clear. Care agencies, and parents, organizing sex workers for their disabled children is something I've encountered numerous times at work. It makes sense to me, because I've seen it, to assume that she is a sex worker with little evidence other than her appearance/attitude. But I realize it's too subtle. I was very high when I wrote this. It's one of those cases where part of the story exists between the lines, in the writer's head. Which makes it all the more astonishing that hydro picked it up. I'm going to flesh out everything in the next draft.

Not sure about how to fix the misdiagnosis, herbavore. I'm going to have to think about that. You're right, it's crucial. Every other aspect of the re-write is clear to me - scene to scene. I don't really want specific suggestions about how to fix the misdiagnosis. I specifically don't want to make it believable. That's what I mean by absurd/ mild magic realism (not the right term). As long as it flows in terms of story. That is, as long as there are events leading up to the doctor's appointment - rather than that scene just being inserted where it is needed - I'm not concerned about the event being believable. I don't want to play up the absurdity of it or try to make it plausible. I just want it - a completely absurd and implausible thing - to naturally occur in the story. It's hard to explain what I mean. But I know what I mean. I'm going to have to think about it, good and hard.

Again, thanks for the feedback.

Thou, as I said I was only really looking for really general feedback and I don't want a line edit. I appreciate that you've put a lot of effort into your comments, but I'm not at that stage of editing yet. I take it you didn't read my request for "no line edits" and "general comments only".

If I might make a suggestion: writing "first impressions" isn't a good way to give feedback. In order to analyze/ critique a work effectively you need to be able to see it as a whole. Going through, paragraph by paragraph, and making comments before you finish reading the whole thing doesn't really work. I don't need a running commentary/ live update of what you think while you're reading it. It's best to read a story, think about it, then formulate your opinions about how it can be improved.

The best way to approach a story, in terms of offering advice, is to read it as if you are just reading any other story. Don't read it as if you are editing it. Detach yourself from editing mode at first and read it as you naturally would read a story that you're not editing. Stopping and making notes every paragraph interferes with how you would perceive the story outside of the context of the workshop. It should first be absorbed as a story, then reconsidered in terms of feedback.

I feel a little hesitant to say this, because it seems like you've put a lot of effort into your comments, but I find your feedback a little difficult to read. The paragraph system means I have to go back and forth between your notes and the story, matching up which bit pertains to what text. When you make comments about a particular part of the story, it's probably best to quote the passage you are commenting about.

I have more than enough feedback, as it is. I know exactly where I need to go with the story. Don't worry about posting more. As I said, I don't want a line edit or a paragraph edit at this stage. Because the story is not ready for that yet. It's just bones. All I wanted was some general structural/plot-based comments.

Thanks everyone!

:)
 
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Didn't catch no line edits.
Whoops.

I had two copies set aside one from a fresh read and then the one above I just posted. I guess there won't be much point in typing up the rest of the insane speed-addled gibberish I jotted down. I was trying a different approach, I wasn't even aware the term "line-edit" existed.


As you know I'm still learning still learning thanks for understanding!

I basically just did the method you described but backwards. I had a gut feeling that I should have switched the arrangement but once I got started I just got so into it I couldn't help myself. It was FUN, man.

Rebecca a prostitute? DID NOT KNOW THAT

Not a bad read at all considering all the stoned omissions, I must say.
 
All good, man.

In terms of the live editing approach, I used to do that when I started studying writing. A lot of first year students do it. You can see them, as soon as they get a story, get the pen out and start scribbling all over it before they even finish reading it. It's hard to resist doing, because you go in thinking "I'm editing this" so you start editing. But, it really doesn't work. You need to be able to see the story from a reader's perspective first, not an editors. That voice that says "I'm editing this" - you need to repress it, and just read. Then, go back and read it as an editor.

Not a bad read at all considering all the stoned omissions, I must say.

I kind of hate the story, as it is. I'd spent three days high on morphine trying desperately to salvage a years worth of lost writing from crashed hard drive. I was so upset about the prospect of losing my novel that I was actually crying at points, and screaming obscenities. I'd hardly slept, and I felt like shit. Been taking a lot of morphine and for some reason it was having a lot of unexpected physical side effects. I was also stressed about not having something to submit for the workshop, because the original version of "The Idiot Savant" was one of the files I'd lost on the hard drive. By Wednesday, I decided - fuck it - I'm not going to get the story back. I have to rewrite it. The workshop was struggling a bit in the first week and hydro hadn't submitted anything yet. So, with very little sleep, a head full of morphine, and what later turned out to be full blown pneumonia - which would account for the unexplained illness I had attributed to my opiate use - I sat down and wrote this new version in about two and a half hours. At the time, in my delirious state, I thought it was passable. The next day, I realized how fucked shit it was. I wanted to delete it, but then hydro postponed and I didn't want to risk fucking up the workshop. The reason I asked for no line-edits was because I didn't want people to spend too much time thinking about the story in detail. Frankly, the state of it embarrasses me. Still, the general idea for the story is there - in bits and pieces. And the feedback I got actually turned out to be really helpful. I have almost the entire second draft planned out in my head, scene by scene. I appreciate you saying the story is not bad. But it is. I am highly motivated now, having presented this sub-par piece of writing, towards fixing it and re-writing it to the usual standard I submit to publishers. I feel like I need to prove myself worthy of being a writer. After all I've written on this site about writing, to submit such a hackneyed drug-fucked piece of writing for the workshop is seriously embarrassing. I shouldn't be embarrassed. But I am. I need to redeem myself. I'm going to close this thread, archive it, and start re-writing "Savant". I still have pneumonia and I've been taking a lot of morphine. But that's not going to stop me. I need to fix this story will all your suggestions are still fresh in my mind.

Thanks again, everyone.

-4EA
 
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